[INFJ] Are INFJs jealous of INFPs?

[Vasilisa]

always

Have a great summer and never change, Typoc!
xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo

http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...ian-cognitive-functions/29646-devil-entp.html

 

[iwakar]

Have a great summer and never change, Typoc!
xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo

http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...ian-cognitive-functions/29646-devil-entp.html

It's the inevitable reheating of the same leftovers by new guests that makes this place classic.

 

[Poki]

It's the inevitable reheating of the same leftovers by new guests that makes this place classic.

Yeah, but i put cheese on it this time...its different

 

[iwakar]

Yeah, but i put cheese on it this time...its different

It was you that left the spillage to harden on the tray glass, wasn't it?

 

[Poki]

It was you that left the spillage to harden on the tray glass, wasn't it?

 

[1487610420]

gotta up the game, they're onto that one.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

How would they feel if other people did that to them? Maybe the thought doesn't automatically cross their mind, but sometimes I find myself thinking that INFPs and INFJs are one in the same.

Let me preface this by saying I haven't read even half the posts in this thread, so it's possible I'm missing something about this context (but I think this tangent started in the exchanges with fid, went on with casc, and that's how I'm responding): I think most of us would prefer being "tracked" in the way being discussed.

I personally want credit for all the good stuff (iow: I want my honesty to 'accumulate' so that people who've known me a long time know they can trust me), and I don't begin to expect someone to just *forget* the bad I've done either. People are only human, I'm only human, there's going to be bad stuff- "tracking" isn't about using information about past experiences to make people feel bad, it's simply about knowing what to expect from people/situations involving those people. If I'm systematically late when I meet people for coffee- I want that to be tracked, I want people to do what they need to do to not get angry about it every single time as if it's never happened before. If they can't stand dealing with someone being late, then I want them to either learn to not meet me for coffee, to give me a time intentionally earlier time than they can be there or to directly tell me they won't put up with it anymore. I actually get quite frustrated with people who get angry about something that- it feels, to me- they should know is coming. I don't know who said "insanity is making the same mistake over and over again, thinking the results will be different" but that's essentially the reason for 'tracking'- an instinctive awareness of the truth of that statement.

I think that^ can probably be said about 'most' INFJs, just because of the way we are (which I'm too tired to explain right now- it has to do with reacting more to the 'total experience' of someone, not simply what we're experiencing of them immediately).

eta: Forgot one of the main points: the good stuff gets "tracked" too.

 

[Thalassa]

It could be -- I just know that when writing with a friend, she always bounced ideas off of me and she is an INFJ. I mean every single thing she wanted to write, she bounced it off of two or three ideas and I was just like can you hurry up and pick one and just write it? But it was a process.

An INFJ here told me that it's normal for infj's to want to bounce ideas off of other people.

That's funny... my INFJ friend admitted to me that she can not let go of a grudge or forgive that easily. She still isn't speaking to me after nearly two months now so I'd say she's having the harder time considering I've apologized until I'm blue in the face and I wish to just repair the friendship.

I used to hold grudges when I was a kid and a teenager, but now that I'm an adult it's pointless for me to hold a grudge especailly with close friends and family. Life is too short.

In my experience I kind of agree with both what you're saying and also what the others are saying. As an Fi type, I'm more likely to instantly dislike people who I think have shitty values, or take more offense to personal slights while Fe types usually automatically smooth over...but it's reversed when it comes to close relationships. ..I do think FP forgive more easily people whom they love, or respect. ..while when an FJ is done, they're DONE (i.e. door slam).

Same thing with bouncing off ideas. Pe types and Te types need to articulate things to others more in terms of intellectual stuff...but I think as an FP I've been more independent over time, I easily travel or take vacations alone, I don't need people to approve of me in that sense. ..while the Ni in INFJ may give them more intellectual independence, but tbh yeah I think Fe types in general are less socially independent.

The jealousy you're talking about here though is likely individual and isn't anything to do with the two types, per se.

 

[Thalassa]

I wish my INFJ friend thought that way about friends. In her world it's what either one of us "deserve" when it comes to friendships (which I think for her is more perfection than anything else, and perfection doesn't exist in any aspect) and there's no room for understanding on her part (or there is, but it's silent and just within herself). Which I guess kind of says a thing about INFP needing to speak to others -- in serious cases, as I've gotten older I might reach out to a friend or to and ask them what I should do. This friend is a perfect example, but when it comes to other things like I mentioned it's more of a, what's the hold up? Just pick something and do it. So in that respect an INFP and an INFJ might flip.

In the end once you're close to me, you're just always there and when you're not, it creates a large empty space that can't ever really be replaced. I've had interests, been a fan of things, and close friends since I was a small child and through my life I've taken everything with me. Unfortunately you can't take people with you because they're too complicated, but I've never told someone there isn't any room for them in my life. I accept a lot of people for who they are, rather than what they do. If that were the case, my life would be filled with those that are alike and I don't think that life should be that way because it's unrealistic in that sense. There's people that you're going to feel very comfortable around and very accepting, but as much as they say INFP's don't like conflict, I think we're better (or I'm better) at getting past it or through it than INFJs are. I think in the sense of handling situations, INFJ's are much more firm in their beliefs and if you cross them (even without knowing how deeply it bothers them) they're going to judge you and remove themselves from you like you are a virus. Not all of course, but some, from what I can tell so far. Some for both INFJs or INFPs.

To a point I really do get what you're saying, I'm the same way with people once I actually let them in. I think Fi types are more likely to filter out people who don't share core values or offend them, and keep them on the fringes as acquaintance or simply tell them to fuck off. I've always been pretty good at telling strangers to fuck off, but in closer relationships I get over petty stuff more easily, I have forgiven people for things I probably shouldn't have, in the past...while Fe types kind of accept people in general with more politeness, or try to smooth things over, but when they finally do get truly upset or make a decision to end a friendship, they're less likely to change their mind. I think Fe types also have to think in terms of you fitting in with their in group in close relationships, while Fi types might have a strange menagerie of friends and acquaintances and care more about what meshes with their inner core values or what they are capable of tolerating, making FP seem open minded, in a different way.

I disagree though that INFJ are more firm in their beliefs, though. Fe is a lot more wiggly in terms of values, just like Te needs more broad intellectual input to feel they've made a logical decision. I've noticed it really drives me crazy when people come to intellectual conclusions without considering a broader range of external information, and to me sanity is linked to agreed upon logic. ..while values are sacred and only negotiable up to a point.

 

[Thalassa]

This rings very true to some of the thoughts I've had about my friend. Would this carry on in every aspect of life meaning not just friends or family, but co-workers as well? And would a job experience gone wrong (to the point of incredible stress, emotions and general unfairness) make it worse?

Also back on the topic of jealousy, how does jealousy work within an infj? I know it is human to all personsonalities, but generally speaking in the sense of an infj, what does it take and what does it stem from?

As an infp i find jealousy in artistic types. I'm a graphic designer and a fangirl in a lot of senses, so when I see others get praise, I feel wounded a bit and jealousy -- but I take it out on myself and blame myself for it meaning there was something about my art that wasn't good enough.

In the sense of my infj friend it seems to stem from others who write and are recognized for it because she takes her writing seriously as I've read a lot of infj's do. The only thing I can't understand fully is she does not put her work out there to be judged so in a way it seems like she can be a critic and be jealous, but she doesn't allow others to feel that way about her because she keeps her work private. I know some of her work, but I am also the one who kept pushing her to share her work and that must have only bothered her even more.

Other things too... jealousy over other people in her life, almost always women. They always look better, act better, etc... except for me. So far I'm the only real person she knows who has something wrong with her or could be a better version of myself.

I will look into that therapy. I am not familiar with much therapy, but I don't think I'll be the one to mention it to my friend. She's already not speaking to me. If she sees me trying to offer her a push towards any kind of therapy, she'll take that in completely the wrong way. I think.

Are you sure she's INFJ? Fi doms can also be perfectionists who do things like hide their writing. I used to do that until I was in my late teens, so by the time I let other people see my serious writing it was of much better quality. I used to always hide what I was writing and while I constantly post on forums now, when it comes to something like fiction I'd be much more inclined to hide it until I was ready for someone to see it.

Being a writer or an artist isnt about INFJ/INFP anyway, so tbh you're both potentially NF or just both FP, and some of the stuff you're saying doesn't really match up to either type necessarily. ..FP can have really inflexible guarded values and take a long time to make a serious decision, so for all I know your friend is actually FP.

 

[Thalassa]

No, they "shouldn't" be, but it IS a trend, and I am interested in "why". It may not be jealousy, maybe just simple disdain, but it is there. And the disclaimer has already been given that not all INFJs display this attitude at all. The idea that INFPs are pretty much defective INFJs exists in MBTI communities in general.

So the question becomes: how and why are INFPs specifically rubbing against INFJ insecurities?

Of course I have my speculations, but I am more curious about what others have to say, given denial of the existence of this can be gotten past.

I think it's really more simple than that. Fe sees Fi as "defective"..selfish, murky, inexplicable, why are you so upset about that, etc...some Fe types see Fi as a character flaw. It's always been much more "telling" to me that in Big Five the healthiest type sounds very much like an MBTI ENFJ.

And Fe is going to do this, because they see themselves as social authority, just as much as Te sees itself as logical authority.

Like seriously when I see people deny environmental science I fairly want to just light them on fire or sacrifice them to endangered animals, and I've long wondered how much tertiary or inferior Ti has to do with people denying majority expert scientific opinion, because I usually don't see Ti doms do it, but Te is their alter ego so they would not conflict with it as much.

Fe I think is similar in consideration of itself as an "expert" just on social matters.

 

[Fidelia]

Alll of the extraverted functions are more practical appearing than introverted ones. Because they are most widely accepted and because their users don't see what the introverted correlating function offers or why it matters, it's easy to dismiss. Introverted functions make observations or have values that are more difficult and nuanced to express. Most of the time, the extraverted version of a type (eg enfj vs infj) just appears more competent and gets more done than its correlating introvert.

It was a big revelation to me when @umlauu pointed out the similarities in Te and Fe or Ti and Fi when discussing why nfjs and nfps sometimes step on one another's toes.

 

[StarFollowed]

Nope.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

The main problem with the question is that it is another generalization, which is common to any of these discussions. Some INFJs are jealous of INFPs and some INFPs are jealous of INFJs. Some people by nature are not jealous. Both Ni and Fi doms could by nature be inclined away from jealousy. The more unique you are, the less comparison with others makes any sense. It may also be related to how intensely an individual identifies with a type?

Jealousies projected onto type likely result from personal jealousies, but perhaps some people can experience purely conceptual jealousies. If someone feels jealous of a sibling or a friend of one type, they may project that jealousy onto the entire type? But that could happen between any types, although it would be possibly less common for Sensors to project their jealousy into a theoretical framework.

 

[Forever_Jung]

From what I have observed in INFJ's, they enjoy INFP's, but are also often very confused by them. I don't think many INFJ's can fathom that level of awareness of your internal subjective feeling, so Fi upsets probably strike them as childish whims. Fi to me, also sounds like it's a bit of an internal physical experience (in the gut and so forth). So on top of being Fe users, INFJ's inferior Se body disconnect cuts them off even more from the immediacy of their feelings. So while I am sure there is plenty about the INFP worth envying, I don't think INFJ's appreciate the INFP machinery enough to envy them. They just aren't very experiential people, and often have a disembodied, 3rd person omniscient quality about them.

And I think the first person POV is jarring and antithetical to the INFJ's quest for perceptual objectivity (not saying they achieve it). It seems natural they would want to suppress a radically 1st person POV (They don't realize Fi's "Self-centered"approach is actually a focus on the universal aspects of self, sort of like how we all share relatively common biology/anatomy. It's the self as mirror. Think of Montaigne's self-focused essays, that still resonate with readers centuries later). Fe is very blind to that world, IMO.

On the other hand, I also think INFP's lack of awareness of how they are coming across leads to them being super awkward, and publicly embarrassing themselves (I know lots of non-awkward INFP's, but let's just work with an exaggerated caricature, okay?). They have this raw, vulnerable quality, that likely terrifies INFJ's and also makes them cringe sympathetically. Fi users see the lack of polish and guile as authentic, but Fe just sees a poor creature thrashing about blindly.

Disclaimer: As an ENTP, I never know how I feel unless I diagnose it from the outside like a doctor, and I get the sense a lot of INFJ's operate similarly, so I may be conflating my attitudes with their own. Also, I am probably doing something wrong with INFPs too, but just know I am trying to give an honest account here.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

From what I have observed in INFJ's, they enjoy INFP's, but are also often very confused by them. I don't think many INFJ's can fathom that level of awareness of your internal subjective feeling, so Fi upsets probably strike them as childish whims. Fi to me, also sounds like it's a bit of an internal physical experience (in the gut and so forth). So on top of being Fe users, INFJ's inferior Se body disconnect cuts them off even more from the immediacy of their feelings. So while I am sure there is plenty about the INFP worth envying, I don't think INFJ's appreciate the INFP machinery enough to envy them. They just aren't very experiential people, and often have a disembodied, 3rd person omniscient quality about them.

And I think the first person POV is jarring and antithetical to the INFJ's quest for perceptual objectivity (not saying they achieve it). It seems natural they would want to suppress a radically 1st person POV (They don't realize Fi's "Self-centered"approach is actually a focus on the universal aspects of self, sort of like how we all share relatively common biology/anatomy. It's the self as mirror. Think of Montaigne's self-focused essays, that still resonate with readers centuries later). Fe is very blind to that world, IMO.

I can see the bolded as relevant.

On the other hand, I also think INFP's lack of awareness of how they are coming across leads to them being super awkward, and publicly embarrassing themselves (I know lots of non-awkward INFP's, but let's just work with an exaggerated caricature, okay?). They have this raw, vulnerable quality, that likely terrifies INFJ's and also makes them cringe sympathetically. Fi users see the lack of polish and guile as authentic, but Fe just sees a poor creature thrashing about blindly.

I'm not sure what others would say about the bolded. It's hard for me to picture any of the INFPs this way. Ji-doms seem hyper-analytical in discussion. What I've noticed in debates with *some* Ti and Fi doms is that they can have a fixed conclusion which will never change, and both have the capacity to do complex mental gymnastics that rely on dissecting every detail and every specific word and turn of phrase to finally come back to "proving" the original conclusion, whether it is accurate or not. If you go into a debate with a Ji-dom who has a foregone conclusion and a stubborn personality, the debate will go on forever in excruciating detail and without any actual progress of new insight. Definitely not true of all, but true of some. This has never looked like flailing to me, but more hyper-exhausting and highly structured and detailed. Only the content of the debates differ.

 

[Blackout]

Which would you say is a bigger problem for you?

I tend to over-snack on sugar, fat, alcohol, tobacco or some-such, and I tend to either overindulge bodily needs or neglect them.

Other people seem to be cut out for a 9-5 corporate zombie routine, and it sometimes makes me feel like a space alien that I just don't fit in.


ha ha ha that's so stereotypical, what is that? geesh...oh and is that really a problem? geesh "problem" as in how you define it.


Oh and why do "common courtesies" for the sake of it matter so much? I just don't get that.

Ah yes...
maybe a little surprised? I wonder if common courtesies have a baring on what your ancestry or background is; if something is particularity for the sake of ceremonial purposes then I don't have a problem with it but otherwise many of them seem kind of repressive to me. It's the whole repressive/stifling thing and I've just never been in the act or business or seen the purpose of stifling.

INFP: 82%

INFJ: 18%

 

[Metis]

Not jealous of them, but I do have a lot of misunderstandings with folks I think are INFP's. They have difficulty agreeing to disagree.

 

[skippythecat]

Most of my friends are Fi-users and I wouldn't say I'm "jealous" of them by any means. They have their strengths and weaknesses and I have mine. IMO the thing about Fi is you learn to appreciate their strength to help your weakness, and for me, to reveal my blind spot (likewise for them) whether it is logical or not. They are more stubborn about certain things, but even as an INFJ, I'm still able to help them to see from a broader perspective and it's not about persuading either. If anything, I appreciate Fi-values in "knowing thyself" at all times. That is something I wish I was better at. As for me, I'm always firm on my vision (or the direction I'm going) and I notice INFP struggles with that. Oh yes, I forgot to mention, writing. My INFP is a writer and I turn to her for help, lol.

 

[PeaceBaby]

Other people seem to be cut out for a 9-5 corporate zombie routine, and it sometimes makes me feel like a space alien that I just don't fit in.

Mmhmm.



A lot more people feel the way you do than you realize. What's different is that other people realize that within the system we have, there are ways to better oneself and get ahead, therefore the system can be used to advantage. How could you use it to your advantage, rather than railing against it?