Coronavirus

[Vendrah]

COVID isn't a flu.

Yeah, it doesn't take the argument about the 1918 pandemic and the pandemics earlier to that.

Now that you posted your own country graphs it looks like your country is having a 3rd wave, I agree that for your context you should worry but worldwide is different, for my own country and US is different too.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Yeah, it doesn't take the argument about the 1918 pandemic and the pandemics earlier to that.

Some diseases are around for centuries or longer. So I am don't see why that can't happen with COVID.
Perhaps it wouldn't happen but at this point it is fairly obvious that this probably would solve itself on it's own, at least not before the world as we knew it is beyond repair.

Now that you posted your own country graphs it looks like your country is having a 3rd wave, I agree that for your context you should worry but worldwide is different, for my own country and US is different too.

If you watch more closely the graph for new cases in US you can see that the drop is stopping and it is starting to grow. In a few weeks the trend will evidently be more visible.


Worldometer US



Plus it isn't a coincidence that the worst day on the record for the US is in the middle of the cold part of the year. Watch all countries that are further north and you will see a big/clear bump every time in the November to February period. In some the delta in this year managed to make a bigger bump but there is big bump in a winter. Therefore now we will have both delta and winter and that will almost surely be a bad combination with bad numbers.

Cold weather and low level of sunlight has a great say in how body chemistry works and that is why geographic location matters and is a big factor. In the case we didn't do all the measures we did we that live in parts where snow is normal would pass worse than Brazil. I mean you said you are from Amazon so you never had to think about this factor but it is evidently there.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I am completely swarmed with Covid, the daily numbers are as if US has about 550-620 thousand registered new cases a day. While deaths are 5000+ a day on average, but the wave still didn't fully materialize in this regard at this point (it should in a week or two). However the vaccination gridlock is also broken since many realized that this winter wouldn't be pretty. Especially since some nasty sub-variants have been detected.


The numbers are on the move however you turn it.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Plus regarding the debate about US and winter: the drop has stopped and numbers are starting to go back up.

Worldometer US





Especially since in colder northern states the cases are evidently starting to go up.


Wordometer Michigan

Worldometer Illinois

Worldometer Wisconsin

Worldometer NY

Worldometer Montana

Worldometer Vermont

Worldometer New Hampshire

 

[Red Herring]

Numbers here in Europe are going through the roof. Germany is setting new records every day and has higher infection numbers than at any previous point in the pandemic. Some of it is very elderly vaccinated people who would have needed a booster shot but most of it is unvaccinated young(ish) people. Deaths are low but hospitals have reached their limit and ICU beds are basically all filled up. The Charité in Berlin, one of the biggst and most prestigeous clinics in Europe, is so crowded with Covid cases that they have postponed all planned operations, many other hospitals are in a similar situation.

This is the pandemic in Germany so far (bottom right corner graph shows the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th wave):

Here is a map of the distribution of adult vaccination rates (blue, left) and infection numbers (green, right):

Yes, in the city state of Bremen over 90% of all adults are vaccinated!

There is not just an overlap of anti-vaxxers and high infection numbers, these also tend to be the regions with the highest number of hard or far-right voters. The far-right AfD only got 10.1% in the recent general elections but about 50% of all unvaccinated people would would them and another 15% of them support "Die Basis", an anti-corona conspiracy nuts party that only got 1.6% in the recent elections. So unvaccinated people tend to be politically far to the right of average people. About 2/3 of the unvaccinated in Germany are deeply convinced they'll never get vaccinated and are supporting far-right or conspiracy theory parties. Not all of them are rightwing though as there are also more hippie-ish supporters of esoterics and "alternative" medicine that are now marching side by side with rightwing extremists. Strange bedfellows.

 

[Vendrah]

Numbers here in Europe are going through the roof. Germany is setting new records every day and has higher infection numbers than at any previous point in the pandemic. Some of it is very elderly vaccinated people who would have needed a booster shot but most of it is unvaccinated young(ish) people. Deaths are low but hospitals have reached their limit and ICU beds are basically all filled up. The Charité in Berlin, one of the biggst and most prestigeous clinics in Europe, is so crowded with Covid cases that they have postponed all planned operations, many other hospitals are in a similar situation.

This is the pandemic in Germany so far (bottom right corner graph shows the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th wave):

Here is a map of the distribution of adult vaccination rates (blue, left) and infection numbers (green, right):

Yes, in the city state of Bremen over 90% of all adults are vaccinated!

There is not just an overlap of anti-vaxxers and high infection numbers, these also tend to be the regions with the highest number of hard or far-right voters. The far-right AfD only got 10.1% in the recent general elections but about 50% of all unvaccinated people would would them and another 15% of them support "Die Basis", an anti-corona conspiracy nuts party that only got 1.6% in the recent elections. So unvaccinated people tend to be politically far to the right of average people. About 2/3 of the unvaccinated in Germany are deeply convinced they'll never get vaccinated and are supporting far-right or conspiracy theory parties. Not all of them are rightwing though as there are also more hippie-ish supporters of esoterics and "alternative" medicine that are now marching side by side with rightwing extremists. Strange bedfellows.

Points to @Virtual ghost

Far right and right wing regions being the most infected and with most death regions is a pattern that did happened in Brazil (but it was measured by Bolsonaro votes, not really purely right wing) and very likely on US as well.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I don't see what should be the news for me here.

About 2/3 of the unvaccinated in Germany are deeply convinced they'll never get vaccinated and are supporting far-right or conspiracy theory parties. Not all of them are rightwing though as there are also more hippie-ish supporters of esoterics and "alternative" medicine that are now marching side by side with rightwing extremists. Strange bedfellows.

Plus to be honest I don't find this strange at all. This is just a natural coalition of everything that is "anti-system".




Btw US is again at over 100 000 new cases a day (globally today will probably go over 600 000).

 

[FemMecha]

This is more of a confession/question than an opinion. I actually do not know where is the correct line for vaccine mandates. I absolutely get the problem with lots of people not choosing vaccination and also understand that small pox would never have been eradicated except for vaccine mandates that people fought all the way to the supreme court in the U.S. It's serious to not get that protection because it does not only affect our individual health.

I can also appreciate the value of personal choice especially because there are a small number of cases resulting in myocarditis, and so are universal mandates ethical? I can see a private business could have a right to require their employees to be vaccinated in a similar manner as they can require a dress code and certain personal behaviors. Then there is the point where excessive numbers of businesses require it resulting in extreme social pressure, and then there is the point the government mandates it period.

I'll confess to being a person who does not have a specific soap box or position. The situation looks very complex and as though there are issues of violation present at each extreme position, which can be moderated some place in the middle by providing alternatives like daily testing. It's not clear to me where the optimal line is drawn.

 

[Virtual ghost]

This is more of a confession/question than an opinion. I actually do not know where is the correct line for vaccine mandates. I absolutely get the problem with lots of people not choosing vaccination and also understand that small pox would never have been eradicated except for vaccine mandates that people fought all the way to the supreme court in the U.S. It's serious to not get that protection because it does not only affect our individual health.

I can also appreciate the value of personal choice especially because there are a small number of cases resulting in myocarditis, and so are universal mandates ethical? I can see a private business could have a right to require their employees to be vaccinated in a similar manner as they can require a dress code and certain personal behaviors. Then there is the point where excessive numbers of businesses require it resulting in extreme social pressure, and then there is the point the government mandates it period.

I'll confess to being a person who does not have a specific soap box or position. The situation looks very complex and as though there are issues of violation present at each extreme position, which can be moderated some place in the middle by providing alternatives like daily testing. It's not clear to me where the optimal line is drawn.

For me it is not that complex.

Few people that have medical reason not to take any of the vaccines can be pardoned (the same can perhaps be said for very small children). However everything must be done that this virus is eradicated completely. Since it causes way too much social damage in economy and general mental health. Some other measures will surely need to support the vaccine but removing this is basically the only real way out. The economies can't be on ventilators forever and it is fairly sure that at this point this probably isn't going to end by itself. Therefore it has to be artificially removed and as fast as possible. The first country on my continent announced this and already I see domino effect where others think about doing the same. So this will almost surely be given a mass go. This virus can technically become a new 24/7/365 flu on steroids and that is almost surely the end of the world as we know it. I don't think I even have to explain the details of why this is the case. Not to mention potential decades of mutations if we let the virus to do it's thing (so one vaccine probably wouldn't even work on all of them at that point).



For me pros and cons equation is pretty simple .

 

[Virtual ghost]

Pennsylvania + 7600
The worst day since January


Michigan + 10 200
Almost a new record.


And the winter didn't even start.

 

[Virtual ghost]

New Mexico +1830
The worst day since January

 

[Virtual ghost]

Rotterdam shaken by riots over planned coronavirus curbs



But when you see the graph it is becoming obvious that this is mass anxiety.

Worldometer Netherlands

 

[Virtual ghost]

I am watching my local situation and it looks like incoming total war between center right and far right over COVID stuff. The first are closing and regulating while the others are marching and gathering. What in combination with evidently record numbers and full hospitals is very volatile. Especially since one group probably wouldn't accept measures required by the situation. While the left is silent and center stopped being relevant years ago. Strange times.

 

[Red Herring]

German health minister Jens Spahn just now on a press conference: "By the end of winter everybody will probably be vaccinated, recovered or dead".
The country is bitterly divided between a majority that is vaccinated and following the rules and a minority that refuses to do anything to end the pandemic. As the latter's infection rates are rising at a breathtaking speed and hospitals keep filling up the problem might indeed soon be solved one way or another. Most will have aquired some natural immunity and quite a few will have died. Also quite a few people will have died from different causes because hospitals were too full with sick unvaccinated people as the country had a massive shortage of nurses even before the pandemic.

Meanwhile in the Mediterranean countries over 90% of adults are vaccinated and life is more or less returning back to normal.

 

[Virtual ghost]

German health minister Jens Spahn just now on a press conference: "By the end of winter everybody will probably be vaccinated, recovered or dead".

Yeah, with how situation is going around the continent that should be the case all over the place. What means we have a window for ending this mess completely next spring (if measures are on the level at the time).

 

[Red Herring]

Did I mention that (yet again) the army is helping out the health departments to man their call centers because there just aren't enough people to deal with all the registered infections?

 

[Lexicon]

How SARS-CoV-2 in American deer could alter the course of the global pandemic

Scientists have evidence that SARS-CoV-2 is circulating in white-tailed deer in the U.S. They say the findings could essentially dash any hopes of eliminating the virus in the U.S. — and the world.

www.npr.org

All right... who the hell coughed on a deer?

 

[Virtual ghost]

How SARS-CoV-2 in American deer could alter the course of the global pandemic

Scientists have evidence that SARS-CoV-2 is circulating in white-tailed deer in the U.S. They say the findings could essentially dash any hopes of eliminating the virus in the U.S. — and the world.

www.npr.org

All right... who the hell coughed on a deer?

This isn't the first time this virus was detected in animals. After all it probably passed from animals to humans in the first place and that is how we got here.

However if deers prove to be such a problem we will just have to avoid them, kill them or vaccinate them. If there is will there is a way.

 

[Luminous]

This isn't the first time this virus was detected in animals. After all it probably passed from animals to humans in the first place and that is how we got here.

However if deers prove to be such a problem we will just have to avoid them, kill them or vaccinate them. If there is will there is a way.

There are around 30 million deer. Avoiding and killing them are out of the question, they are simply not possible, or would have other disastrous effects.

 

[Virtual ghost]

There are around 30 million deer. Avoiding and killing them are out of the question, they are simply not possible, or would have other disastrous effects.

Of course, but some of them will probably have that fate as well. My point was exactly that there are multiple ways how to handle this and we can have mixed solution. After all I doubt that all 30 million of them are infected.