Totenkindly
@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2007
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Not really sure where to put this thread.
With the Barbie film kicking off a lot of social discourse lately, I saw this post quoted by a female friend of mine on FB. Including here:
“I’ve seen a few men on this platform criticize the Barbie craze or admit they’re ready for it to go away. So, let me tell you a story.
In my early 30s, I went to the apartment (for the first time) of a man I was dating. He had a giant Death Star replica, a Luke Skywalker and a Darth Vader figurine. He was an adult man with toys visible and on display in his home. He wasn’t ashamed or apologetic. His friends thought it was cool. I thought it was odd but didn’t question it (imagine if a new guy/love interest showed up to a 30, 40 or 50-something woman’s home to find Barbie, Ken, Growing Up Skipper and Midge displayed on a shelf). That’s because it’s acceptable for men to acknowledge their childhood. It’s acceptable for men to have toys.
Heck, right now, my 70-something dad has a man cave full of model airplanes, a life-sized Batman and a Darth Vader. I think there is a Superman, too.
Girls and women, however, are societally expected to outgrow and move on from our toys. We’re expected to shift our focus from baby dolls to human babies and from Barbie dolls to being real-life Barbies for our boyfriends and husbands. We are expected to mother baby humans and become the dolls we once dressed up while managing critiques of our body sizes, shapes, careers, makeup and wardrobe choices.
I loved Barbie. I mean, I loved Barbie! But by my teenage years, my collection of Barbies was gathered up and passed on to a younger cousin simply because it was time for me to move on from childish things. But I never stopped loving Barbie.
In fact, I still get excited to see and even visit at stores the Holiday Barbie and all her finery when she comes out each year. I’d have a house full of Barbies if I could. And why can’t I? Well,….
Women are expected to leave behind our childhoods, that essence of who we were, that time of innocence, imagination and wonder. We are expected to leave behind play and playtime.
We’re not really even allowed hobbies except for those that center around home and family.
This is not the case for men. It’s acceptable to hang on to everything from video games to action figures to bike riding. I feel like every guy I ever dated in Austin would spend hours getting muddy on a mountain bike each week.
For so many of us, Barbie is the toy we had to give up along with our girlhood, our childhood. We not only miss her, we miss the girl inside each of us who still loves her and all she represented to us. Barbie could be anything and there was a time we believed we could be, too, before life, societal pressures, reality and patriarchy stepped in, hit us over the head with a pink 2X4, took away our toys, made us grow up and told us it was all our fault anyway.” -- Rachel Elsberry
Just curious whether others identify with Elsberry's comments and to what degree?
I feel only partially informed on this topic due to my trans background and the timing of my transition, as in some ways my experience is a composite of both genders as described. I do still have an awful lot of "things" related to hobbies and cultural phenomena in my house on display (comics gears, Star Wars and other movies paraphernalia/posters, a plethora of Funko and McFarlane figurines), play video games, etc -- although these things are important to me beyond a purely tangible quality.
I remember in my old life that people in my family tended to just view it as eccentric or at worst an endurable immaturity as long as I fulfilled my "adult obligations." Money spent on it was frivolous but a "necessary cost of doing business" I guess and overlooked depending on how much of my time it occupied. I think my AFAB sister had more pressure on her to "grow up" and conform to expectations for a woman esp in religious culture and this meant not playing with toys and being responsible for family -- although men also have pressures on them to grow up, provide, and "achieve." it just seemed like men could get away with it more.
Nowadays I still do/own these kinds of things, and it hasn't changed (except my pockets are much deeper, with my far better paying work, and less people to support in my household). If I still was raising kids and/or married, I think, I would still have pressure on myself to not prioritize any of these things or display such things -- unless I lived vicariously through a husband who approved of the spending and thus it would be "ours".
While females might have had to give up Barbies and similar, there have been things deemed more acceptable -- like dolls (American Girls?), Beanie Babies (remember when that was big?), hummels, Precious Moments figurines (things that "look expensive in a display"), good china (dear god, talking about china patterns when you get married, it's insane) which though ties to a female social expectation to be a hostess and invite large quantities of family, and so on. I think "female toys" are generally expected to serve a more practical purpose even when they exist.
I think less traditional families have more flex. There are a lot of women nowadays who play WoW and similar videogames nowadays, for example, or who enjoy and are invested in franchises. Also... sports is another thing... typically male, but i know a lot of rabid women sports teams fans who spend money on jerseys and other gear.
I dunno. Just curious what other people's experiences (of both genders) have been with this viewpoint.
With the Barbie film kicking off a lot of social discourse lately, I saw this post quoted by a female friend of mine on FB. Including here:
“I’ve seen a few men on this platform criticize the Barbie craze or admit they’re ready for it to go away. So, let me tell you a story.
In my early 30s, I went to the apartment (for the first time) of a man I was dating. He had a giant Death Star replica, a Luke Skywalker and a Darth Vader figurine. He was an adult man with toys visible and on display in his home. He wasn’t ashamed or apologetic. His friends thought it was cool. I thought it was odd but didn’t question it (imagine if a new guy/love interest showed up to a 30, 40 or 50-something woman’s home to find Barbie, Ken, Growing Up Skipper and Midge displayed on a shelf). That’s because it’s acceptable for men to acknowledge their childhood. It’s acceptable for men to have toys.
Heck, right now, my 70-something dad has a man cave full of model airplanes, a life-sized Batman and a Darth Vader. I think there is a Superman, too.
Girls and women, however, are societally expected to outgrow and move on from our toys. We’re expected to shift our focus from baby dolls to human babies and from Barbie dolls to being real-life Barbies for our boyfriends and husbands. We are expected to mother baby humans and become the dolls we once dressed up while managing critiques of our body sizes, shapes, careers, makeup and wardrobe choices.
I loved Barbie. I mean, I loved Barbie! But by my teenage years, my collection of Barbies was gathered up and passed on to a younger cousin simply because it was time for me to move on from childish things. But I never stopped loving Barbie.
In fact, I still get excited to see and even visit at stores the Holiday Barbie and all her finery when she comes out each year. I’d have a house full of Barbies if I could. And why can’t I? Well,….
Women are expected to leave behind our childhoods, that essence of who we were, that time of innocence, imagination and wonder. We are expected to leave behind play and playtime.
We’re not really even allowed hobbies except for those that center around home and family.
This is not the case for men. It’s acceptable to hang on to everything from video games to action figures to bike riding. I feel like every guy I ever dated in Austin would spend hours getting muddy on a mountain bike each week.
For so many of us, Barbie is the toy we had to give up along with our girlhood, our childhood. We not only miss her, we miss the girl inside each of us who still loves her and all she represented to us. Barbie could be anything and there was a time we believed we could be, too, before life, societal pressures, reality and patriarchy stepped in, hit us over the head with a pink 2X4, took away our toys, made us grow up and told us it was all our fault anyway.” -- Rachel Elsberry
Just curious whether others identify with Elsberry's comments and to what degree?
I feel only partially informed on this topic due to my trans background and the timing of my transition, as in some ways my experience is a composite of both genders as described. I do still have an awful lot of "things" related to hobbies and cultural phenomena in my house on display (comics gears, Star Wars and other movies paraphernalia/posters, a plethora of Funko and McFarlane figurines), play video games, etc -- although these things are important to me beyond a purely tangible quality.
I remember in my old life that people in my family tended to just view it as eccentric or at worst an endurable immaturity as long as I fulfilled my "adult obligations." Money spent on it was frivolous but a "necessary cost of doing business" I guess and overlooked depending on how much of my time it occupied. I think my AFAB sister had more pressure on her to "grow up" and conform to expectations for a woman esp in religious culture and this meant not playing with toys and being responsible for family -- although men also have pressures on them to grow up, provide, and "achieve." it just seemed like men could get away with it more.
Nowadays I still do/own these kinds of things, and it hasn't changed (except my pockets are much deeper, with my far better paying work, and less people to support in my household). If I still was raising kids and/or married, I think, I would still have pressure on myself to not prioritize any of these things or display such things -- unless I lived vicariously through a husband who approved of the spending and thus it would be "ours".
While females might have had to give up Barbies and similar, there have been things deemed more acceptable -- like dolls (American Girls?), Beanie Babies (remember when that was big?), hummels, Precious Moments figurines (things that "look expensive in a display"), good china (dear god, talking about china patterns when you get married, it's insane) which though ties to a female social expectation to be a hostess and invite large quantities of family, and so on. I think "female toys" are generally expected to serve a more practical purpose even when they exist.
I think less traditional families have more flex. There are a lot of women nowadays who play WoW and similar videogames nowadays, for example, or who enjoy and are invested in franchises. Also... sports is another thing... typically male, but i know a lot of rabid women sports teams fans who spend money on jerseys and other gear.
I dunno. Just curious what other people's experiences (of both genders) have been with this viewpoint.
I also had not thought a long time about my stuffed animals, but I loved stuffed animals growing up. I had a good 10-15 of them on my bed into late middle school (I don't recall about high school) and each had their own special place surrounding me at night, so I kind of had a wall of animals positioned there while I slept.
