Coronavirus

[Red Herring]

People still trusting the "experts" lol. Do not compare covid "vaccines" with any other vaccine. The covid vaccine didn't go through any of the safety regulations that all other vaccines went through.

That is not true. In Europe all vaccines went through the regular admission process. No steps were skipped, no emergency admissions - exactly because they didn't want anybody to be able to claim what you are claiming.

The covid one is very dangerous compared any other "approved" vaccine, based purely on the amount of side effects it can cause including fatal and life debilitating disorders. You guys should learn by now, that the science isn't always right. And it takes years to reverse it, but by then the damage has been done.

View attachment 25012

What side effects exactly are you talking about here? Sounds ominous...

No vaccine is 100% risk free, life isn't risk free. But you can do a risk assessment of vaccine risk vs risk of disease. The benefits of the vaccines far outweigh their minute risks.

Science keeps learning, that is part of the process. Science's state of the art is always temporary until proven wrong but scientific consensus is still the most solid thing available and humanity's best bet. What you are doing here is not question individual discoveries or conclusions but throw mud on science itself in order to be able to claim whatever you like because, hey, in the 19th century cocaine was used medicinally so obviously there are no objective truths out there, everything is a lie anyway and everybody can just make up their own truths....

... I believe Steve Bannon called that strategy "flood the zone with shit". Spread bullshit until people believe there are lies and conspiracies everywhere anyway and they'll become so disorientated they give up trying to tell fact from fiction.

 

[Merced]

I'd rather have shaky legs like the wasps on TikTok than, y'know, fucking die.

 

[The Cat]

Fun Reminder, posting covid misinformation(as determined by the cdc) is an actionable behavior. Doesn't matter if you believe it or not...

 

[Virtual ghost]

Fun Reminder, posting covid misinformation(as determined by the cdc) is an actionable behavior. Doesn't matter if you believe it or not...

The most awkward thing is that Trumpers and their own ideology of limited government created this whole mess about which they are now complaining. In other words if everyone should be self-sufficient that means that they will become a business. However once something becomes a business the BSing and truth distortions are basically inevitable. Not to mention that in order to sort out covid you need a good and well funded education system that insures that people see the bigger picture with better clarity. However they as a group don't want this. Plus the same can be said for truly available healthcare system that would really help in sorting this out. What means that current situation is for the most part nothing more than a fail of their own ideology. Which is basically American exceptionalism and belief that real shit can never hit such a masterpiece of a country ... and now they got caught with this pants down and everyone else is to blame. I am sorry guys but you voted for this house of cards over and over again.

 

[FemMecha]

Worth keeping an eye on Russia. The deaths are up quite high in Moscow and Russians are suspecting a new variant.

Coronavirus in Russia: The Latest News | Feb. 24 - The Moscow Times

Russia has confirmed 18,315,292 cases of coronavirus and 378,784 deaths, according to the national coronavirus information center. Russia’s total excess fatality count since the start of the coronavirus pandemic is at least 995,000. Under half the population is fully vaccinated.

www.themoscowtimes.com

Moscow facing new aggressive coronavirus variant, mayor says

Moscow is facing a new coronavirus variant that is more aggressive and infectious, and the situation in the city is rapidly deteriorating, its mayor said on Thursday.

www.reuters.com

 

[FemMecha]

Why? Some diseases require boosters, some don't. Like Siuil a Ruin is saying, I don't think the world population should be dependent on boosters forever, but establishing a healthy world immunity by checking the blood, see who has the antigens and antibodies to fight it and see who doesn't, and vaccinate accordingly.

For those like myself who've had it, our immunities have antibodies, the second time didn't last nearly as long as the first, little to no lingering upper respiratory infection like the first time round, and both times there was no vaccine for me when I needed it.

To be clear I did not say that. I only said that I wondered if I personally still had vaccination coverage from my first two Pfizer shots. I do not hold a global political position against boosters. I hold a position against allowing a pandemic to run unchecked and to follow the guidelines of people with training in virology and epidemiology and public health to help guide this process to minimize tissue damage, illness, and death in the global population. I don't know if that means yearly boosters for covid like we have for the flu shots now, or if there is a way to establish and determine more permanent immunity. I am not making any statements based on conclusions about this, but only in principle which will adapt as information is provided.

My position is against turning this serious issue into a competitive sport or advertising campaign with the obligatory oppositional-binary-thinking that pervades humanity.

 

[Paisley]

To be clear I did not say that. I only said that I wondered if I personally still had vaccination coverage from my first two Pfizer shots. I do not hold a global political position against boosters. I hold a position against allowing a pandemic to run unchecked and to follow the guidelines of people with training in virology and epidemiology and public health to help guide this process to minimize tissue damage, illness, and death in the global population. I don't know if that means yearly boosters for covid like we have for the flu shots now, or if there is a way to establish and determine more permanent immunity. Even though I'm a highly educated intellectual and have read science articles excessively through the pandemic, my training is not in the right areas to be able to conclude the best course of action for managing COVID-19 ongoing. I am not making any statements based on conclusions about this, but only in principle which will adapt as information is provided.

My position is against turning this serious issue into a competitive sport or advertising campaign with the obligatory oppositional-binary-thinking that pervades humanity.

My apologies for misrepresenting your statement and making you feel you were taken out of context, but I too, am suggesting similar sentiments with regards to sars-cov-2.

(Also, being against oppositional-binary-thinking, is a binary position, as you're asserting you're against something, lolz, then on and on the dualist v. non-dualist arguments go, ad infinitum. )

Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[FemMecha]

My apologies for misrepresenting your statement and making you feel you were taken out of context, but I too, am suggesting similar sentiments with regards to sars-cov-2.

(Also, being against oppositional-binary-thinking, is a binary position, as you're asserting you're against something, lolz, then on and on the dualist v. non-dualist arguments go, ad infinitum. )

Happy Thanksgiving!

Thank you for the post. I get that it is would be ironic to debate dualist vs. non-dualist, but I'm mostly referring to the football oriented U.S. culture. When I say binary thinking in sports and advertising I mean:

Sports team vs. sports team for superbowl
Coke vs. Pepsi
Mac vs. PC
Republican vs. Democrat
etc. vs. etc.

I know people can be more specific about the political parties differences, so if anyone needs to cross that off the list, the point still stands. American culture reduces every concept to equivalent, but oppositional notions to maximize sales, fans, attention. People have to pick a side and feel superior to the other side. It is rooted in sports, but absolutely applies to political discussion, and people keep trying to force pandemic issue into this equivalent, oppositional, binary thinking. I see people trying to create "natural immunity vs. vaccination". Well, why not both? Might just need both to personally survive it. No, instead we have to attempt to establish oppositional equivalence and fight to the point of utter distraction and nonsense.

I do not know how that fits into classical philosophical theories of "dualist and non-dualist", but only note its prevalence in American assumptions and discussion and see it is ultimately rooted in sports obsession because those teams are equivalent and oppositional by their true nature. These other issues are not.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Thank you for the post. I get that it is would be ironic to debate dualist vs. non-dualist, but I'm mostly referring to the football oriented U.S. culture. When I say binary thinking in sports and advertising I mean:

Sports team vs. sports team for superbowl
Coke vs. Pepsi
Mac vs. PC
Republican vs. Democrat
etc. vs. etc.

I know people can be more specific about the political parties differences, so if anyone needs to cross that off the list, the point still stands. American culture reduces every concept to equivalent, but oppositional notions to maximize sales, fans, attention. People have to pick a side and feel superior to the other side. It is rooted in sports, but absolutely applies to political discussion, and people keep trying to force pandemic issue into this equivalent, oppositional, binary thinking. I see people trying to create "natural immunity vs. vaccination". Well, why not both? Might just need both to personally survive it. No, instead we have to attempt to establish oppositional equivalence and fight to the point of utter distraction and nonsense.

I get what you are saying. Like people think that because I don't like Trump, I love Lori Lightfoot because she's a Democrat. (the reverse also occurs... criticizing Biden means you must love Trump). It is generally difficult to have a discussion about these topics with people who think that way, because they can't actually process someone going "off script".

 

[Virtual ghost]

Are there any official guesses how this COVID winter will look like in US ?

 

[ceecee]

Are there any official guesses how this COVID winter will look like in US ?

I think the flu will be bad in addition to COVID spikes (but I think that will start to decline). This is looking more and more like what I thought it would look like - two years, deaths in the millions world wide. We've already surpassed the 1918-1920 pandemic numbers in the US.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I think the flu will be bad in addition to COVID spikes (but I think that will start to decline). This is looking more and more like what I thought it would look like - two years, deaths in the millions world wide. We've already surpassed the 1918-1920 pandemic numbers in the US.

To be honest I am asking this because of pretty personal reasons. There seems to be a great deal of political and economic instability in US. Therefore if this will be another tough COVID winter that will evidently end up in a mess. Which will probably spill all over the world through chain reactions. Especially since everything is set up for the large domino effects.

 

[Vendrah]

I don't wanna to make a rut or a mess here, but the graphs at worldometer are telling that this is getting over already - cases and deaths have been dropping 1-2 months by now substantially with lot of countries with the cases at very minimal, that counts my own case. Im getting my 2nd shot and next month I do believe I am going to reduce a lot of my mask use, even though I am not anti-mask as well. If this trend continue, I guess I will be anti-mask last year, not because I don't believe they don't work and all, but due to number of cases / number of deaths (which means low risk).

 

[Virtual ghost]

I don't wanna to make a rut or a mess here, but the graphs at worldometer are telling that this is getting over already - cases and deaths have been dropping 1-2 months by now substantially with lot of countries with the cases at very minimal, that counts my own case. Im getting my 2nd shot and next month I do believe I am going to reduce a lot of my mask use, even though I am not anti-mask as well. If this trend continue, I guess I will be anti-mask last year, not because I don't believe they don't work and all, but due to number of cases / number of deaths (which means low risk).

Your local situation is fairly good since vaccinations are visibly going up and you have incoming summer. However I wouldn't be this fast to say this will be over soon. After all we are dropping on worldometer but we still didn't drop bellow "business as usual" levels. Plus in the northern hemisphere there is winter coming and that will almost surely lead to explosion of cases in many places (especially since they generally aren't fully vaccinated and many aren't even close). Not to mention that we still have no real idea what is really going on in Africa and various open dictatorships (or war zones). Therefore it is simply too early for any kind of global celebrations. In the next northern summer we will perhaps be in the position to solve this in the most of the world. But since something like 85% of the world is living on the northern hemisphere and is going into winter that often has bellow zero temperatures it is just too soon to really celebrate. Since this is a threat that doesn't really exist in Brazil but it is quite real. After all this is kinda why you didn't completely fall apart despite minimal COVID measures. But once temperatures fall bellow freezing this is a different game. Especially since you need plenty of extra money just to stay home in a warm space and the cold really boosts the virus.

 

[FemMecha]

Are there any official guesses how this COVID winter will look like in US ?

Forecasting data and videos by various doctors over the past few weeks presented that cases are likely to go back up through the holidays because of travel and gatherings. Without the introduction of a new variant, there is generally an assumption numbers will go down early in the new year and through spring. Newer forecasts are also showing a steady decline from this point through spring.

I like these comparative forecast pages:

contrasted models through January from the CDC site:

IHME | COVID-19 Projections

Explore forecasts of COVID-19 cases, deaths, and hospital resource use.

covid19.healthdata.org

steady decline models reported by NPR:

Is The Worst Over? Models Predict A Steady Decline In COVID Cases Through March

Though infections are still sky-high, the U.S. may be turning a corner, according to a consortium of researchers who forecast the pandemic. And we may well be spared a winter surge.

www.npr.org

From what I understand, these are all Delta variant forecasts, so if the new strain in Russia or another mutation finds its way here, it could change the situation. They aren't predicting another wave of Delta, but consider it has left natural immunity or motivation for immunization in its path.

unofficially I’m preparing for at least one more worse variant but I don’t have verification. I mostly think it is cautiously very optimistic to forecast on the delta variant alone when viral replication is so active globally. It seems expected to me for a vaccine and immunity resistant strain to enter the picture. I’m oddly hoping it happens this flu season so we can get it over with and not wait for it to come next year. My personal common sense sees this as inevitable but I wouldn’t expect others to agree based only on my perspective. Maybe the forecast models are right, except the Moscow variant suggests otherwise. Edit: Although waiting provides more time for treatment development, so I shouldn't wish to get it over with sooner. Still, yet another year of hardcore pandemic is difficult to think about.

 

[Paisley]

Thank you for the post. I get that it is would be ironic to debate dualist vs. non-dualist, but I'm mostly referring to the football oriented U.S. culture. When I say binary thinking in sports and advertising I mean:

Sports team vs. sports team for superbowl
Coke vs. Pepsi
Mac vs. PC
Republican vs. Democrat
etc. vs. etc.

I know people can be more specific about the political parties differences, so if anyone needs to cross that off the list, the point still stands. American culture reduces every concept to equivalent, but oppositional notions to maximize sales, fans, attention. People have to pick a side and feel superior to the other side. It is rooted in sports, but absolutely applies to political discussion, and people keep trying to force pandemic issue into this equivalent, oppositional, binary thinking. I see people trying to create "natural immunity vs. vaccination". Well, why not both? Might just need both to personally survive it. No, instead we have to attempt to establish oppositional equivalence and fight to the point of utter distraction and nonsense.

I do not know how that fits into classical philosophical theories of "dualist and non-dualist", but only note its prevalence in American assumptions and discussion and see it is ultimately rooted in sports obsession because those teams are equivalent and oppositional by their true nature. These other issues are not.

Entrenched oppositional dialogue, I get it, thanks.

(Still recovering from a Turkey Coma after Canadian Thanksgiving. So sleepy. In Canada, thanksgiving is about celebrating the end of harvest, which happens in October, and we have to eat up all the excess food from the harvest that has a short shelf life, lolz, and in America, thanksgiving I think is just about the pilgrims in Plymouth.)

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Entrenched oppositional dialogue, I get it, thanks.

(Still recovering from a Turkey Coma after Canadian Thanksgiving. So sleepy. In Canada, thanksgiving is about celebrating the end of harvest, which happens in October, and we have to eat up all the excess food from the harvest that has a short shelf life, lolz, and in America, thanksgiving I think is just about the pilgrims in Plymouth.)

I think the harvest is part of it, too.

 

[JocktheMotie]

Using rhetorically-loaded labels is much easier than arguing the points.

But to get back to the real point without resorting to "weasel words," you seem to be implying that questioning the safety and efficacy of vaccines, or disagreeing that they be mandated for everyone is "anti-vaccine"? If so, I'm curious to hear why you think that. I was always taught that it was the nature of science and medicine to question things, and to answer those questions with experiments and data. Suddenly it seems it's ok to just throw an "anti-vax" label around and ignore the questions. Are the vaccine company scientists and business professionals shown in that video anti-vax also?

What points? You posted a video from a right-wing donor funded misinfo group quoting a J&J "Business Lead" (aka sales bro) and a J&J "scientist" (does this guy actually work for J&J? Can't find anything on LinkedIn or any professional profile of this guy at all. What kind of "scientist" are they? We don't know! Video doesn't mention it. Seems like that would be important! A cursory pubmed search of any papers he's authored turns up nothing.). That's not proof of anything. And your anti-vax (Vaccine skeptic? Vaccine hesitant? Choose your 'rhetoric') position goes back way before COVID. I'm not going through your 8k posts to find them, ~50% of which is just creeping on any of the girls who posted a nice picture in Member Picture Time.

You're more than welcome to question the safety and efficacy of the vaccine. How is that going to be done? With studies and trials analyzed by domain experts. The quality of the questioning and skepticism is important. And if you think that video is illuminating or compelling at all, then the quality of your questioning is fucking horseshit. You acting all high and mighty with your "Oh, I'm sorry, I thought this was what science is all about" garbage take is completely transparent and it's just cowardice. Cowardice, and weakness. Because deep down you probably know how dumb you sound and you're really just working through your own fear. I'd respect it more if you just came out and said it. "I think vaccines are unsafe/unnecessary, they're a big pharma plot to just make money and a long con to make the human immune system dependent on them, COVID is not really a big deal and a tool of the elite to keep the population in fear/under control, and disease can be counteracted by living in the woods and practicing good hygiene."

Also, you know (or maybe you don't, considering how terrible your critical faculties appear) that the vaccine risk question is fundamentally inseparable from the risks and harms of COVID and to equivocate those risks is idiotic.

 

[ceecee]

Using rhetorically-loaded labels is much easier than arguing the points.

But to get back to the real point without resorting to "weasel words," you seem to be implying that questioning the safety and efficacy of vaccines, or disagreeing that they be mandated for everyone is "anti-vaccine"? If so, I'm curious to hear why you think that. I was always taught that it was the nature of science and medicine to question things, and to answer those questions with experiments and data. Suddenly it seems it's ok to just throw an "anti-vax" label around and ignore the questions. Are the vaccine company scientists and business professionals shown in that video anti-vax also?



Hilarious twist, especially the "your apologist position." I can understand your political bravado and passion though. If Project Veritas is capable of getting vaccine company employees and scientists to say things they disagree with, then clearly they have very fearsome mind control powers.

You spent an entire post attacking the political agenda and funding source of the poster of the video, twisting that around into me fully supporting everything that poster stands for, and then calling for everyone to look to this as evidence that no one should take what I say seriously. For some reason, I'm not really concerned about myself.

Either those scientists and vaccine company executives said those things or they didn't. Do you have any information which indicates they didn't? Your politically-inflated rhetoric and silence on the matter says no.

I suppose your "scientific studies" over the last year and a half don't get the traction you were looking for here, which is why you moved on to Project Veritas.

Aside from saying that you're spreading disinformation gleefully and deserve whatever befalls you in that regard, I don't particularly care what you support.

 

[FemMecha]

Interesting article on the history and development or mRNA vaccines.

The tangled history of mRNA vaccines

Hundreds of scientists had worked on mRNA vaccines for decades before the coronavirus pandemic brought a breakthrough.

www.nature.com