Coronavirus

[Indigo Rodent]

I don't know why people call Covid vaccine "safe". The point of vaccine isn't to be completely safe, the point is to be less harmful than the virus.

Unlike the vaccines, viruses have ability to replicate within organism, infecting more and more cells, putting their genetic material in them and making them produce more and more virus that puts the virus genetic material in more cells.
Like virus takes over cells, they are no longer your cells, they are frankencells that produce virus and that virus turns more of your cells into frankencells.

Frankencells, in your lungs, in your liver...

Of course the organism tries to destroy these frankencells, so you can get widespread inflammation, destroyed parts of lungs, etc.

Some side effects of the vaccines may come from the spike protein itself and organism's reaction to it. But it still needs to be seen in contrast to effects of virus getting to keep turning your cells into frankencells again and again and again and getting produced by them until it's defeated and your organism having to destroy these frankencells.

Yeah, some people are going to have pretty nasty reaction to it, perhaps even life altering or lethal but it's much lower percentage than people with actual virus replicating and wreaking havoc within them.

 

[Abcdenfp]

I am not sure if anyone else here experienced side effects from the shot. (mind you ours was the one from India that is not approved for use in the states or Britain)
however for almost 4 months after i had intense pain, tingling and numbness of hands and feet. This is the first time i since the shot i have gone without it.

 

[Kephalos]

David R. Henderson: don't forget that name. Also, don't forget the name American Institute for Economic Research.

Climate Science Denial Network Behind Great Barrington Declaration

The ‘think-tank’ behind the Great Barrington Declaration is part-funded by right-wing American billionaire Charles Koch

bylinetimes.com

Henderson is an economist based in California, and is still pushing Ivermectin (Warning: this link contains possible misinformation):

The FDA’s War Against the Truth on Ivermectin | The Daily Economy

"The FDA spreads lies and alarms Americans while preventing drug companies from providing us with scientific explorations of existing, promising, gener ...

www.aier.org

 

[FemMecha]

Russia Identifies New Coronavirus Variant As Moscow Tightens Restrictions Amid Record Cases, Deaths

Russia has reported some COVID-19 infections with a new coronavirus variant believed to be even more contagious than the Delta one amid a surge in coronavirus infections and deaths that has pushed Moscow's authorities to reimpose lockdown measures.

www.rferl.org

В России выявили новый вариант дельта-штамма коронавируса

Пока это единичные случаи. Учёные изучают, насколько эта мутация заразнее остальных

www.svoboda.org

 

[Paisley]

Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of COVID-19... : American Journal of Therapeutics

mortality, in secondary outcomes, and in chemoprophylaxis, among people with, or at high risk of, COVID-19 infection. Data sources: We searched bibliographic databases up to April 25, 2021. Two review authors sifted for studies, extracted data, and assessed risk of bias. Meta-analyses were...

journals.lww.com

 

[Virtual ghost]

I don't wanna to make a rut or a mess here, but the graphs at worldometer are telling that this is getting over already - cases and deaths have been dropping 1-2 months by now substantially with lot of countries with the cases at very minimal, that counts my own case.

Just as as I promised you the cases are rising again, as the winter in the northern hemisphere is settling in. This isn't over.

 

[Vendrah]

Just as as I promised you the cases are rising again, as the winter in the northern hemisphere is settling in. This isn't over.

Yes, globally.
On my own country, it is as low as it was on April/2020, when the virus started spreading, while 70-80% has the first shot of vaccine and a half or more the second (including me, recently). And winter won't be a thing here, specially because I live on the Amazon where Summer every month of the year (and that is not as nice as many think, I dislike it).

 

[prplchknz]

I got my booster yesterday and I'm having less of reaction to it than my 2nd one. 2nd one in bed for 2 days. This one just a headache and sore arm. Though I did have a cup of coffee and was fast asleep an hour later last night. I'd rather go through a day or 2 of feeling blah than get covid

 

[Vendrah]

And this thread getting dry, @Virtual ghost, sort of reinforces my observation that the COVID pandemic is getting over, even though its a weak justification.

@prplchknz I had zero issues with my 1st shot, but the second one made me a bit sick too. Got quite tired, even mentally, but it was nothing too bad.

 

[The Cat]

 

[Virtual ghost]

And this thread getting dry, @Virtual ghost, sort of reinforces my observation that the COVID pandemic is getting over, even though its a weak justification.

By that logic just because I don't have the time for my global thread that means that there is peace globally.


As a matter of fact when you wake up tomorrow morning you can take a look at the worldometer. Since you will see that summation of today is globally the worst day in over a month (in the terms of new cases).

 

[Vendrah]

By that logic just because I don't have the time for my global thread that means that there is peace globally.


As a matter of fact when you wake up tomorrow morning you can take a look at the worldometer. Since you will see that summation of today is globally the worst day in over a month (in the terms of new cases).

But you aren't the only person who moves the thread!

However I am also biased on my country, since graphically speaking it seems to be getting close to be over here.
And we have the US too but delayed, US deaths are falling and cases are more or less stable. And by the graphs, the US had 3 waves, being one more recent and I speculate its the last in "relevant-size" terms, while Brazil got one brutal wave plus consistent deaths, while the world had 3 waves. US 3rd seems to be in September while world 3rd seems to be in August.

And there is another point too: I think expecting to eradicate COVID to be something surrealistic or naively idealistic. It should get to a point where it will run "on the background". I think we are close to that point and that we are reaching that point on US/Brazil quite soon.

 

[Virtual ghost]

But you aren't the only person who moves the thread!

My point was that there is nothing really new to talk about and therefore the thread is slow. Since most here have something smarter to do.

However I am also biased on my country, since graphically speaking it seems to be getting close to be over here.
And we have the US too but delayed, US deaths are falling and cases are more or less stable. And by the graphs, the US had 3 waves, being one more recent and I speculate its the last in "relevant-size" terms, while Brazil got one brutal wave plus consistent deaths, while the world had 3 waves. US 3rd seems to be in September while world 3rd seems to be in August.

And there is another point too: I think expecting to eradicate COVID to be something surrealistic or naively idealistic. It should get to a point where it will run "on the background". I think we are close to that point and that we are reaching that point on US/Brazil quite soon.

Your country is specific case since it has spring and fast rising vaccinations. However in about 6 months the temperatures will be less favorable and the effect of the current vaccination will start to vane. Therefore if nothing changes fundamentally with drugs, measures, travel restrictions etc. this is just temporary relief. While US is stopping with good trends if we judge by worldometer, because the winter is on the door. Since there it will probably happen something similar to what is currently in Europe, literally the all time records in quite a few places (and clear growth in 90% of places). After all some states at the north of US are showing case growth as the temperatures are starting to drop. Plus as you already know this has to be solved globally since that is the only real end. Otherwise it will again spread across the globe in the matter of weeks.

 

[Vendrah]

My point was that there is nothing really new to talk about and therefore the thread is slow. Since most here have something smarter to do.







Your country is specific case since it has spring and fast rising vaccinations. However in about 6 months the temperatures will be less favorable and the effect of the current vaccination will start to vane. Therefore if nothing changes fundamentally with drugs, measures, travel restrictions etc. this is just temporary relief. While US is stopping with good trends if we judge by worldometer, because the winter is on the door. Since there it will probably happen something similar to what is currently in Europe, literally the all time records in quite a few places (and clear growth in 90% of places). After all some states at the north of US are showing case growth as the temperatures are starting to drop. Plus as you already know this has to be solved globally since that is the only real end. Otherwise it will again spread across the globe in the matter of weeks.

But as I said, it is surrealistic that you expect coronavirus to be eradicated/exterminated totally. That would require basically everybody on vaccines and masks absolute everywhere. That is not gonna happen, not only the anti-mask or anti-vax people, the poor countries that doesn't have much masks or vaccine, but people who did everything right so far and maybe a little bit more (such as me) but is already getting tired of all of this!

 

[Virtual ghost]

But as I said, it is surrealistic that you expect coronavirus to be eradicated/exterminated totally. That would require basically everybody on vaccines and masks absolute everywhere. That is not gonna happen, not only the anti-mask or anti-vax people, the poor countries that doesn't have much masks or vaccine, but people who did everything right so far and maybe a little bit more (such as me) but is already getting tired of all of this!

That could turn out to be the case. However I am pretty sure that most people don't understand how COVID world will actually work.


So here are some "ideas":

1. Supply chains will be a mess forever and that will have huge social consequences. Tourism, bars and similar stuff may disappear altogether with time.

2. Expected age will drop for 10 or 20 years for all those that do not want to be "on vaccine" all the time.

3. There will be plenty of various checks everywhere.

4. This will be a huge financial and logistical problem for all medical systems world wide.

5. The places with really cold winters will have serious problems every winter (since this is way worse than flu).

6. Virus damages various organs, so if this is without end this factor could pile into a serious problem over time.

7. Only God knows what decades of mutations will do with the virus. Especially since there will probably be plenty of various variants in parallel, that could require very different treatments.




Therefore for me thinking that this may not be solved means that you have basically made peace with the idea that the world we all knew is gone. What may actually be the case.
However this is the hole into which no one should be in a hurry to get in.

 

[Vendrah]

That could turn out to be the case. However I am pretty sure that most people don't understand how COVID world will actually work.


So here are some "ideas":

1. Supply chains will be a mess forever and that will have huge social consequences. Tourism, bars and similar stuff may disappear altogether with time.

2. Expected age will drop for 10 or 20 years for all those that do not want to be "on vaccine" all the time.

3. There will be plenty of various checks everywhere.

4. This will be a huge financial and logistical problem for all medical systems world wide.

5. The places with really cold winters will have serious problems every winter (since this is way worse than flu).

6. Virus damages various organs, so if this is without end this factor could pile into a serious problem over time.

7. Only God knows what decades of mutations will do with the virus. Especially since there will probably be plenty of various variants in parallel, that could require very different treatments.




Therefore for me thinking that this may not be solved means that you have basically made peace with the idea that the world we all knew is gone. What may actually be the case.
However this is the hole into which no one should be in a hurry to get in.

I think you are exaggerating a bit, seriously!
Millenials life expectancy was already dropping anyway...
Saying that tourism, bars, etc.. will disappear.. that's not really true, airlines are even recovering.
Really cold winter issue is more of speculative right now, specially because most of deaths weren't even on these places, but rather hot places like mine. Virus damages various organs of those who don't take the vaccine and perhaps people of age as a restriction too. The mutation part is also still very speculative. The medical crisis won't happen in the future, it is already happen but its getting better each day, at least here and probably on US too.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I think you are exaggerating a bit, seriously!
Millenials life expectancy was already dropping anyway...
Saying that tourism, bars, etc.. will disappear.. that's not really true, airlines are even recovering.
Really cold winter issue is more of speculative right now, specially because most of deaths weren't even on these places, but rather hot places like mine. Virus damages various organs of those who don't take the vaccine and perhaps people of age as a restriction too. The mutation part is also still very speculative. The medical crisis won't happen in the future, it is already happen but its getting better each day, at least here and probably on US too.

As said those are ideas. However this is simply too dark that most people have the stomach to go into this debate.





Yes, for younger generations the expected age is already dropping in some places, but that doesn't mean it can't further.


Globally tourism industry is in heavy problems and often is surviving on subsidies or loans at this point. However since the covid world on the long run would have very messy supply chains it is fairly save bet that most of tourism, bars and similar stuff would go down the drain on the long run. Since such places are risky to be and money will be low for almost everyone. After all the world is sitting on something like 280 000 billion $ of debt and permanent large disruption will evidently create chaos that couldn't be fix. So the odds are that what will survive are more basic industries, especially if fun stuff will constantly be hit with measures that will make them unprofitable.



Cold winters aren't speculative at all and that can say only someone like you that lives on the equator. Less people have died at the north since they have smaller population and they are much more wealthy. What allowed various measures and lockdowns. However this isn't something that can go on forever and as you noted many people don't even want masks and vaccines. Therefore covid winter as new normal is something that would surely be hell. Covid at 20C and -5C is something different and that is why your country somehow managed to make it with minimal measures (but there were still major losses). My local doctors are talking about this every day so you are just wrong that this isn't a big problem (ask other posters that don't live too close to the equator).



Mutation isn't really a speculation, the virus is constantly creating new variants and sub-variants. Therefore if there is no real end to COVID it is reasonable to assume that there will be all kinds of mutations on the long run. Many of which will probably not be treatable with same measures. After all this is currently the basic fear, that vaccine will not cover some mutations. So with decades in mind this mess will almost sure spread into various branches that you can't cover with the same measures. What really complicates things in holding things together, medically and financially.



So as I said, I am fairly sure that most people don't understand what "COVID as normal" really means.

 

[Vendrah]

After all the world is sitting on something like 280 000 billion $ of debt

This was prior to COVID and it is another type of disease in society that a lot of people don't condemn, but rather praise (we two don't praise, I think).

Less people have died at the north since they have smaller population and they are much more wealthy.

Even if you put the rank at deaths per population, cold countries doesn't get as far as you say. The correlation between country temperature and deaths should be quite low or zero, but I didn't measured it. There might be some cycle on North, yes, but it is not as dramatic as you say. I may had grown less sensible into living into a hellish place like this, but even still what I say remains...

Mutation isn't really a speculation, the virus is constantly creating new variants and sub-variants. Therefore if there is no real end to COVID it is reasonable to assume that there will be all kinds of mutations on the long run. Many of which will probably not be treatable with same measures. After all this is currently the basic fear, that vaccine will not cover some mutations. So with decades in mind this mess will almost sure spread into various branches that you can't cover with the same measures. What really complicates things in holding things together, medically and financially.

The issue is that you can say the same to any other virus including the 1918 pandemic and flu, so we would be full of masks and all measures even before the COVID crisis due to 1918 pandemic, yet the 1918 pandemic didn't last forever.

 

[The Cat]

 

[Virtual ghost]

Even if you put the rank at deaths per population, cold countries doesn't get as far as you say. The correlation between country temperature and deaths should be quite low or zero, but I didn't measured it. There might be some cycle on North, yes, but it is not as dramatic as you say. I may had grown less sensible into living into a hellish place like this, but even still what I say remains...

Come on people from the north with snow, explain to this guy what is COVID in below freezing temperatures (and that we are just buying time with wealth and measures, which can't last forever).

The issue is that you can say the same to any other virus including the 1918 pandemic and flu, so we would be full of masks and all measures even before the COVID crisis due to 1918 pandemic, yet the 1918 pandemic didn't last forever.

In the case you forgot, COVID isn't a flu.