Coronavirus

[Lark]

Most of the coverage here in the UK is still biased towards portraying a public that do not want government restrictions or actions in place.

If this is true, and I do not think it is, then the public really do no get what is going on.

If this is not true then I predict the overwhelming of the NHS being used as pretext for wholesale privatization of the UK's NHS and its sale to Trump Co. USA.

 

[Lark]

1. If COVID is really like cold then there can be no real herd immunity. Since cold is coming over and over and it still hurts people.


2. Just if your country is unable to do lockdown right and without causing extra damage that doesn't mean that it is fundamentally bad idea.

The cold is not actually a virus, it is the safe recovery from the virus that people call the cold.

Every decision has costs, locking down, not locking down there is still a cost.

Presently capitalist governments are trying to portray things as though you much choose peoples lives or the economy, that is a false dichotomy, also not locking down is not cost free, including costs to the economy and not simply a cost in human lives.

 

[Virtual ghost]

The cold is not actually a virus, it is the safe recovery from the virus that people call the cold.

Every decision has costs, locking down, not locking down there is still a cost.

Presently capitalist governments are trying to portray things as though you much choose peoples lives or the economy, that is a false dichotomy, also not locking down is not cost free, including costs to the economy and not simply a cost in human lives.

Well, with cold I was being simplistic in order to pass the point. Of course that in medical sense it is much more complicated.


While it is truly correct that not locking down can have large economic costs (especially if the lockdown is done right). Since higher number of cases depresses the people's spending on the long run. Also there will be all kinds of disruptions and you will have much more medical expenses as a society (regardless of what kind of a healthcare system do you actually have). Also when you do quick lockdown to get things back under control you must defend the lockdown results with masks and other measures. Since otherwise you will quickly have the problem again.

 

[anticlimatic]

If I remember correctly YouTube was blocking and censoring any video regarding Covid that wasn't in synch with WHO guidelines, so does this mean all videos regarding lockdowns as anything other than a terrible idea will be removed?

 

[Red Herring]

WHO chief says herd immunity approach to pandemic 'unethical' | World Health Organization | The Guardian

WHO chief says herd immunity approach to pandemic 'unethical'

“Herd immunity is achieved by protecting people from a virus, not by exposing them to it,” Tedros said. “Never in the history of public health has herd immunity been used as a strategy for responding to an outbreak, let alone a pandemic.”

...

Covid-19 has killed well over one million people and infected more than 37.5 million since it first surfaced in China late last year.

Last week, an international group of scientists called on governments to allow young and healthy people to return to normal life while protecting the most vulnerable. It later emerged that several supposedly expert signatories of the “Great Barrington declaration” were fake names, but the document reflected once more highlighted calls for an effort to develop herd immunity.


Tedros pointed to some cases where people are believed to have been infected with the virus a second time. He also stressed the many long-term health problems of infection, which researchers are only just beginning to understand.
He pointed out that it has been estimated that less than 10% of the population in most countries are believed to have contracted the disease. “The vast majority of people in most countries remain susceptible to this virus,” he said. “Letting the virus circulate unchecked therefore means allowing unnecessary infections, suffering and death.”

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I'd posted a link earlier in this thread somewhere (I think it was an NPR piece) about an analysis that found government mandated shut-downs weren't actually the biggest cause of the economy taking a hit. It compared areas with mandated shut-downs to areas that stayed open, and found that people with enough disposable income to go out and spend on non-essential things (like dining out) weren't spending on non-essential things anyway. In that income bracket, where people had the luxury of being able to stay home and physically distance themselves, they did exactly that anyway.

It seems to me like people who are frothing at the mouth to blame the government for everything that goes wrong - in nearly any capacity - are incapable of discerning the extent to which (or acknowledging any truth in it at all) the virus is the reason for the hit to the economy.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I'd posted a link earlier in this thread somewhere (I think it was an NPR piece) about an analysis that found government mandated shut-downs weren't actually the biggest cause of the economy taking a hit. It compared areas with mandated shut-downs to areas that stayed open, and found that people with enough disposable income to go out and spend on non-essential things (like dining out) weren't spending on non-essential things anyway. In that income bracket, where people had the luxury of being able to stay home and physically distance themselves, they did exactly that anyway.

It seems to me like people who are frothing at the mouth to blame the government for everything that goes wrong - in nearly any capacity - are incapable of discerning the extent to which (or acknowledging any truth in it at all) the virus is the reason for the hit to the economy.

This is something that I am saying since day one: you can't really fix the economy as long as the virus is clearly in the mix. Since natural human reaction to this is that you bunker down for the most part. This is exactly why stimulus bills and welfare programs are very important in this situation, because they smooth things out in this hole situation and make hiding more viable and workable for everybody.



Plus those that read my posts will know that for years I advocated for more robust system, since eventually serious shit will hit in some shape or form (and it turned out that it will be a pandemic). Therefore since my country over the decades hit even bigger icebergs then COVID you must always be ready for these kinds of situations (in my book). In other words where I live the pandemic numbers are multiple times better than in the US over the last 6 months, even if we count per capita. There is economic crisis but it isn't "it is the end of the world" crisis. Over these 6 months unemployment went up for just a few percent the last time I checked. Better election laws and welfare programs reduced elections into much smaller drama than they are in US. Also nobody lost health insurance since it is a human right, the wave of evictions still didn't start and perhaps it wouldn't at all. What is all mostly just due to 2 things: the government is doing it's job for the most part and we generally keep infection numbers under control (what is obviously interconnected). So situation isn't normal but it is generally livable. This is exactly why I said few months back that people should read again that story for kids about 3 little pigs building houses and the wolf that is after them. Since this is basically it, you must calibrate foundations for the worst of times.

 

[ceecee]

Looks like Republican run states have the highest infection numbers. How could that be - I was told this was ONLY a Dem state problem.

COVID Cases since June by state partisanship

This could only ever be the case in states with absolutely minimal public health infrastructure, social safety nets and the very deep core conservative - I got mine, fuck you - mantra. I really don't think they GOP and Republicans have any clue what's coming for them in terms of blame.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Is my professional life your business? I think not.

Geepers. I wasn't trying to discredit you. I legit sort of thought you were a doctor.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Looks like Republican run states have the highest infection numbers. How could that be - I was told this was ONLY a Dem state problem.

COVID Cases since June by state partisanship

This could only ever be the case in states with absolutely minimal public health infrastructure, social safety nets and the very deep core conservative - I got mine, fuck you - mantra. I really don't think they GOP and Republicans have any clue what's coming for them in terms of blame.

The amazing thing is most of those states are often more spread out in terms of population, so you think it would be harder for the virus to spread; there is natural "social distancing" at play. Someone really fucked up.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Looks like Republican run states have the highest infection numbers. How could that be - I was told this was ONLY a Dem state problem.

COVID Cases since June by state partisanship

This could only ever be the case in states with absolutely minimal public health infrastructure, social safety nets and the very deep core conservative - I got mine, fuck you - mantra. I really don't think they GOP and Republicans have any clue what's coming for them in terms of blame.

I saw this yesterday, and I'd forgotten about the "Wonder why it's higher in Dem states? Because they iNflAte tEh nUmBerS to mAKe TruMp LoOk bAd" shtick.

Thank goodness posting something like this will bring all that to a screeching halt.

 

[Jaguar]

Geepers. I wasn't trying to discredit you. I legit sort of thought you were a doctor.

Perhaps a proctologist? I do examine assholes.

 

[Tellenbach]

Pure shit. Use better sources.

Anyone can start a website and claim to be an objective arbiter of "real" news. The fact that they don't have CNN, The Young Turks, or MSNBC as "questionable", but every right leaning source like Breitbart and Townhall tells me everything I need to know. Garbage site indeed.

 

[Jaguar]

Anyone can start a website and claim to be an objective arbiter of "real" news. The fact that they don't have CNN, The Young Turks, or MSNBC as "questionable", but every right leaning source like Breitbart and Townhall tells me everything I need to know. Garbage site indeed.

Your comments are not consistent with what is on the site. But then you read nothing in depth, you just post superficial bullshit and somehow find it relevant.

 

[Tellenbach]

Here's another article about Sweden and Herd Immunity that says pretty much says what the other 2 sources I used said and this one's not "questionable":

Did Sweden Accidentally Blunder into COVID-19 Herd Immunity?

Earlier this month, a study in Science noted that T-cells that react to and counter COVID-19 coronavirus infections have been extensively reported in unexposed individuals, suggesting a pre-existing immune response in 20 to 50 percent of the population. So pre-existing T-cell coronavirus immunity among a significant proportion of the population may now be functioning as a barrier to COVID-19 infections, thus contributing to that 60 to 70 percent threshold.

Go watch Dr. Rhonda Patrick's appearance on the Joe Rogan show where she discusses the immune response. You don't have to catch Covid-19 to have immunity to it. Some people possess T-cells that will fight Covid-19 because they were exposed to other coronaviruses.

 

[Jaguar]

What's next - using a car website as a source for discussing HIV?

 

[Vendrah]

Go watch Dr. Rhonda Patrick's appearance on the Joe Rogan show where she discusses the immune response. You don't have to catch Covid-19 to have immunity to it. Some people possess T-cells that will fight Covid-19 because they were exposed to other coronaviruses.

Congrats, that is the basically principle of vaccine that people should learn at high school, and if it were a matter of just putting some cultivated T-Cells or a weakened coronaviruses to create a response, we would have a vaccine by months already.

You can call a hundred sources to me (that doesn't make Jaguar point about reliability wrong), I still have the data as I had mentioned as an argument - US have more Corona infected than Sweden, period. D-a-t-a. Data, data, data.

Anyway, Im out of this thread, since I am in anger already and got even more, before I start to make a mess that relates to the MODs. Something like a few days out of threads, not answering anybody. If someone wants to take advantage, fuck it, people take advantage of others and everything everyday around me anyway.

 

[Jaguar]

The Lancet Infectious Diseases
What reinfections mean for COVID-19

Akiko Iwasaki
Published:October 12, 2020

One of the key questions in predicting the course of the COVID-19 pandemic, caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), is how well and how long the immune responses protect the host from reinfection. For some viruses, the first infection can provide lifelong immunity; for seasonal coronaviruses, protective immunity is short-lived.

In The Lancet Infectious Diseases, Richard L Tillett and colleagues describe the first confirmed case of SARS-CoV-2 reinfection in the USA. A 25-year-old man from the US state of Nevada, who had no known immune disorders, had PCR-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection in April, 2020. He recovered in quarantine, testing negative by RT-PCR at two consecutive timepoints thereafter. However, 48 days after the initial test, the patient tested positive again by RT-PCR. Viral genome sequencing showed that both specimens A and B belonged to clade 20C, a predominant clade seen in northern Nevada. However, the genome sequences of isolates from the first infection (specimen A) and reinfection (specimen B) differed significantly, making the chance of the virus being from the same infection small.

What is worrisome is that SARS-CoV-2 reinfection resulted in worse disease than did the first infection, requiring oxygen support and hospitalisation.

 

[Red Herring]

Daily new infections keep rising here in Germany. The RKI just reported over 5000 new infections for yesterday. The current strategy is to ramp up measures locally wherever there are more than 35 or 50 new infections per 100.000 inhabitants within 7 days. There are already some travel restrictions and there is talk of other more severe measures like a return back to the "no meetings of people from more than two households" rule from spring (in fact at the beginning of april the rule was no meeting of more than two persons who are not from the same household - And that is still lax compared to what they had in Italy, Spain and France!). The national and the regional governments are currently discussing an extention of compulsory mask wearing (right now they are compulsory in shops, in public buildings and on public transport).

In the Netherlands several hospitals in Amsterdam, Rotterdam and The Hague had to temporarily close their ICUs and send away people because they were overfilled. They'll likely now finally introduce compulsory masks as they had so far been voluntary.

In Switzerland new infections have doubled within just five days.

Moscow has returned to tele-teaching students. Northern Ireland extends the autumn school break.

The Czech republic is especially severely hit with the highest number of new infections in Europe.

The list goes on but you get the idea...

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Study from Journal of American Medical Association: Excess Deaths From COVID-19 and Other Causes, March-July 2020

Although total US death counts are remarkably consistent from year to year, US deaths increased by 20% during March-July 2020. COVID-19 was a documented cause of only 67% of these excess deaths.
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