Coronavirus

[á´…eparted]

Can't disagree with you there.

It really really is a cultural problem that has become a ballooning norm that has gotten out of control once the internet took solid root at the turn of the millenium. Companies like Amazon (please implode you evil sack of shit company) have gotten people used to and to expect the norm of quick cheap delivered products with perfect responsiveness at all times. Technology has enabled things to become so seamless and quick that it's resulted in the public adjusting what is normal on a subconscious level and it's quite outpaced the ability (and possibly even exceeded the ceiling) of humans who run it. They end up expecting this same sort of quality elsewhere where it isn't reasonable, and organizations try and adapt anyway, to the detriment of those working in it. People are much more easily dehumanized and experienced as an expendable commodody the faster we go and the more we focus on the customer experience. Another factor is the condensation and centralization around the largest businesses. They broad stroke set the bar culturally that few others can keep up and forces them to increasingly stress and dehumanize to get by.

It's pretty easy to blame companies for intentionally doing this and seeking to drive everyone to work to death but I don't think that was the goal, and that all of this was kind of an accident. There were good intentions behind this for the most part; make things easier for the customer. The end result though is we have unknowingly changed culutral expectations that now put strain on us all. It really illustrates to me that an increasingly modern and globalized world necessitates more sociological constraints to prevent these sorts of runaways. There needs to limits placed around how we socially structure the world so it doesn't depart too far from how our psychogies operate. Some would say this is controling or dangerous, but we already do it. The most salient recent example present in most peoples mind are "circuit breakers" in the stock market to stop people and our programs from panic reactions. Controls are required.

If anything is going to save the world in the next 100 years, it's going to be psychological and sociological research, and intergrating these data into civics and law.

Man I got philospohical and off topic. Carry on :.

 

[cascadeco]

It really really is a cultural problem that has become a ballooning norm that has gotten out of control once the internet took solid root at the turn of the millenium. Companies like Amazon (please implode you evil sack of shit company) have gotten people used to and to expect the norm of quick cheap delivered products with perfect responsiveness at all times. Technology has enabled things to become so seamless and quick that it's resulted in the public adjusting what is normal on a subconscious level and it's quite outpaced the ability (and possibly even exceeded the ceiling) of humans who run it. People are much more easily dehumanized and experienced as an expendable commodody the faster we go and the more we focus on the customer experience. Another factor is the condensation and centralization around the largest businesses. They broad stroke set the bar culturally that few others can keep up and forces them to increasingly stress and dehumanize to get by.

It's pretty easy to blame companies for intentionally doing this and seeking to drive everyone to work to death but I don't think that was the goal, and that all of this was kind of an accident. There were good intentions behind this for the most part; make things easier for the customer. The end result though is we have unknowingly changed culutral expectations that now put strain on us all. It really illustrates to me that an increasingly modern and globalized world necessitates more sociological constraints to prevent these sorts of runaways. There needs to limits placed around how we socially structure the world so it doesn't depart too far from how our psychogies operate. Some would say this is controling or dangerous, but we already do it. The most salient recent example present in most peoples mind are "circuit breakers" in the stock market to stop people and our programs from panic reactions. Controls are required.

If anything is going to save the world in the next 100 years, it's going to be psychological and sociological research, and intergrating these data into civics and law.

Man I got philospohical and off topic. Carry on :.

I will chat and rant with certain philosophically minded coworkers about this, and have over the past few years; I have stated my company has created the monster that is the current customer (many of them, at least - not all). We (the company /customer is always right shift) did this - now we have to deal with the culture we have created.

 

[á´…eparted]

I will chat and rant with certain philosophically minded coworkers about this, and have over the past few years; I have stated my company has created the monster that is the current customer (many of them, at least - not all). We (the company /customer is always right shift) did this - now we have to deal with the culture we have created.

For now, the best we can do is do our part as customers. Its really sad but trying to make change as a worker bee is very unlikely to work and actually reinforce the problem. If the worst customers are pushed against and upper management doesn't get it, they'll just double-down on the customer is always right policies and further push the norm. As customers, what we can do is express understanding and compassion to someone being stress, decline excessive or cushy perks pointing out its bad for the long term to be so pliable to the slightest mistake, and if there is a customer being an asshole near by you, call them out and tell them off (I've done it- it's *fun* lolol) and defend the workers.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Regarding the coffee story I don't see the problem for the customer, here most drink it at home before the work since that is cheaper and they want to have their own mix when they wake up. Coffee machines are relatively common in working spaces. Plus if there is a real problem of some kind you just walk to the next place that is probably within 100 or 200 meters.


Also here customer isn't a privileged saint at any cost. Don't be a dick is expected in all possible combinations of human interactions.





Anyway, Corona related lock-downs have started in my environment.

 

[cascadeco]

For now, the best we can do is do our part as customers. Its really sad but trying to make change as a worker bee is very unlikely to work and actually reinforce the problem. If the worst customers are pushed against and upper management doesn't get it, they'll just double-down on the customer is always right policies and further push the norm. As customers, what we can do is express understanding and compassion to someone being stress, decline excessive or cushy perks pointing out its bad for the long term to be so pliable to the slightest mistake, and if there is a customer being an asshole near by you, call them out and tell them off (I've done it- it's *fun* lolol) and defend the workers.

I love customers like you, ha.

It's true. I don't think one has to have worked in the service industry to 'get it', as people who never have, do, and people who have, are often still entitled assholes when they themselves are a customer. Anyway, yes. To recognize when folks are stretched thin or don't have the ability to attend to things in a machine-efficient manner, due to being short-staffed, or even... human... would be a good step.

I've said it many times, but 95 out of 100 customers would be really shitty employees... I would gleefully love to see them (including the ones who become impatient or feel employees are 'slow' or any number of things) fumble and fail doing what they're criticizing everyone of doing --- because 95 out of 100 would fail and crash.

 

[cascadeco]

Regarding the coffee story I don't see the problem for the customer, here most drink it at home before the work since that is cheaper and they want to have their own mix when they wake up. Coffee machines are relatively common in working spaces. Plus if there is a real problem of some kind you just walk to the next place that is probably within 100 or 200 meters.


Also here customer isn't a privileged saint at any cost. Don't be a dick is expected in all possible combinations of human interactions.





Anyway, Corona related lock-downs have started in my environment.

The U.S. is different in this respect, lol. But to isoprene's commentary, it hasn't always been this way. And, I'm sure things will shift back eventually.

 

[21%]

"The customer is always right" is a toxic mindset. When I was in the UK there are signs everywhere in stores/shops that say "If you abuse our staff we will take legal action"

 

[cascadeco]

"The customer is always right" is a toxic mindset. When I was in the UK there are signs everywhere in stores/shops that say "If you abuse our staff we will take legal action"

In my experience, outright 'abuse' is really rare.

However the cultural aspect is insidious -- the hovering, the impatience, the questions whether a drink or food item is ready yet or wondering where it is / why it's taking so long, any inconvenience due to running out of certain non-essential supplies (stir sticks, splash sticks/drink stoppers) , expectations and frustration around actual timeframes / extenuating circumstances that might slow things down, and so on and so on.

Remove one, maybe two people from the lineup due to being sick, and the level of impatience and upset pings around the store like fire. There are always reasonable, understanding customers, however.

 

[Pionart]

From a financial standpoint, it screws up the consumption and supply chain side of the equation. People aren't going to buy as much because they are sitting at home. Companies aren't going to spend as much money because they are concerned about lower revenue and profits. Sales cycles elongate due to the uncertainty. Products can't be manufactured because they can't get ingredients, parts, etc. from China and other places. From the US perspective, it slows down the an entire economy that has been overdue for a recession kept on life support by government deficit spending by Trump.

People not buying stuff sounds like a good thing to me.

 

[á´…eparted]

People not buying stuff sounds like a good thing to me.

Its not when its so abrubt like this and when the financial infrastructre and norms arent built to take this sort of blow.

Ita generally really bad when something causes products at the very beginning of the supply chains to be hit cause it effects SO many things. It might sound good on paper to hear consumerism to dip, but not when manufactures stop buying iron ore or rare earth ore because mining operations and processing stalls. That hits so many things with no benefit to anyone.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

People like to be righteous about stalled supply chains until there’s no toilet paper or toothpaste left on the shelves.

Once the little creature comforts and basic necessities disappear, they’re suddenly singing a different tune.

Hopefully it doesn’t get to that point, but just saying...

 

[Pionart]

Its not when its so abrubt like this and when the financial infrastructre and norms arent built to take this sort of blow.

Ita generally really bad when something causes products at the very beginning of the supply chains to be hit cause it effects SO many things. It might sound good on paper to hear consumerism to dip, but not when manufactures stop buying iron ore or rare earth ore because mining operations and processing stalls. That hits so many things with no benefit to anyone.

I haven't studied economics or anything similar, but this consumerism dipping thing really does sound good... I mean, stalling mining operation? That sounds good for the earth. Isn't it?

I guess that if the system isn't built for it, it could very well be causing problems that in no way lead to a good outcome for the earth, the people etc. but then the system is as corrupt as it is, a part of me cheers.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Plus you have the danger of overbuying, I.e. people stocking up on extra shit like toilet paper in a panic. Might mean initial boosts in sales but if there’s already supply chain issues it will just speed shortages and take all that much longer to replenish inventories.

 

[Jonny]

I highly recommend this video.

 

[Lexicon]

I highly recommend this video.

Cliffhanger.

Here’s the full-length one:

 

[EcK]

Cliffhanger.

Here’s the full-length one:

thanks, bra(s) [MENTION=5159]Lexicon[/MENTION] [MENTION=9251]Jonny[/MENTION]

 

[EcK]

Plus you have the danger of overbuying, I.e. people stocking up on extra shit like toilet paper in a panic.

I believe stocking up on toilet paper is actually to avoid stocking up on extra shit.

 

[EcK]

There's contagious people with little symptoms to no symptoms and a long period of contagiousness (weeks) - it's easily confused with a small cold and is already spread all across the globe. Basically this will always get through the nets and the only way to stop it was to close the borders. The best we can do is probably just to slow down its spread until we find medicine / vaccines for it. By how much we can slow it down will define whether the healthcare system gets completely overwhelmed leading to many more deaths of people with usually manageable ailments or not. As it's spreading worldwide we can forget about any meaningful international help when it comes to getting people masks, medicine, respirators etc.

 

[Tennessee Jed]

I guess the best thing to hope for is that it will burn itself out when the warm weather hits. I'm a little skeptical though due to the cruise ships that have been impacted traveling to places like Japan and Mexico where the weather is warm right now.

Yeah, the assumption is that the northern hemisphere will get a respite from the coronavirus when the warm weather hits. Flu season traditionally ends with the onset of warm weather, and the coronavirus seems to be acting pretty much the same as the standard flu. (By the way, cruise ships, like aircraft, may be a transmission vector even in warmer climates. Cruise ships are said to be a particular danger because they recirculate air among the cabins. Everyone is breathing the same stale recirculated air, over and over. The majority of cabins on a cruise ship are in the interior of the ship or below the waterline and require recirculated chilled air for A/C.)

Anyway, given climate change and the warmer winters we're having, we could see the coronavirus start abating in the northern hemisphere pretty quick now. Summertime will then give the research labs some time to work on a vaccine and figure out supply lines for needed medical resources if and when the virus picks up again next fall/winter.

Meantime, the virus will likely get worse in the *southern* hemisphere for the next six months as the countries there head into winter. That's bad for the southern hemisphere, but it will give the northern hemisphere more opportunity to watch and learn how the coronavirus operates and what's the best way to slow transmission.

Of course, this scenario is an optimistic one (for the northern hemisphere, anyway). No one in fact knows for sure how the coronavirus will operate in warmer weather. But assuming the coronavirus lets up in the warm weather like the standard flu, then inhabitants in the northern hemisphere should take that time to hit the gym or get out into nature and try to shed 10-20 pounds and get a little more physically fit. Simply being in better health is one of the best ways any given individual can safeguard against the coronavirus.

By the way, the last couple days I've seen my local gym get kind of empty; people see something like a gym as a transmission vector I guess. I mentioned in a past post that there has been a small coronavirus outbreak in my local area, in fact a few miles from where I live. Local news reports and coronavirus maps are indicating that the number of infected people has increased a bit in the last day or two. So the local folks may be freaking out a bit. But daytime temps are starting to hit the 60s and 70s, which hopefully will help to slow the spread. (Ten years ago, March would often bring one or two late winter storms.) Meantime I'm also seeing some old folks start showing up at my local gym in greater numbers. When business was normal in the past, the main commercial gym that I currently attend typically used to be about 70-80% young people and 20-30% older folks. But yesterday it seemed that the numbers were reversed. So I guess the old folks are getting the message that they need to get in better shape. But I'm not sure why the young people are staying away. Maybe they're scared that the old folks are going to give them the virus.

By the way, if the little local outbreak in my area runs contrary to my predictions and turns into a full-blown epidemic, I'm not going to wear one of those flimsy white surgical masks. Instead, I'm going to get one of those medieval black leather bird-beak plague masks. Much more stylish.

 

[Maou]

Ohio's response to coronavirus this far has been split between "its just the cold bro" and the classic "BREAD AND MILK" panic response, but with water and tp instead. Good thing I got my water a week early