Coronavirus

[Jaguar]

Texas Is Reopening Without Masks, But Live Music Venues Say Not Yet - Rolling Stone

 

[Virtual ghost]

This basically involves some conclusions that I have said before. We have to sort this out globally and everywhere or it wouldn't go away.

 

[JAVO]

One vaccine expert and developer argues that the current mass vaccination strategy with the current vaccines is the completely wrong (as in more harmful in the long-term) approach, and that it is cause of increasingly infectious strains:

 

[JAVO]

The Ohio Department of Health "fixed" inconsistencies in the COVID-19 death data by simply removing the data which enables the public to see the inconsistencies.

The Ohio Hospital Association inpatient and ICU census curves show that various restrictive government mandates, such as masks mandates, business closings and stay at home orders had no observable effect in Ohio.


See the testimony starting at around 2:50:00 by Kathryn Huwig:

The Ohio Channel


She refers to the census curves at:

Ohio Hospital Association | Ohio Hospital Association

 

[Vendrah]

The Ohio Department of Health "fixed" inconsistencies in the COVID-19 death data by simply removing the data which enables the public to see the inconsistencies.

The Ohio Hospital Association inpatient and ICU census curves show that various restrictive government mandates, such as masks mandates, business closings and stay at home orders had no observable effect in Ohio.


See the testimony starting at around 2:50:00 by Kathryn Huwig:

The Ohio Channel


She refers to the census curves at:

Ohio Hospital Association | Ohio Hospital Association

So, what about you being true to your own word?
Come here to Brazil.
We never ever had a national quarantine.
Lots of people doesn't use and procrastinate the use mask or use them wrongly.
Lots of people are in favour of the "treatments".
Lots of people protest and fight against the quarantine, so we don't have much of that. Lots of things are open!
Vaccine? At very slow rate and the worse ones as possible.

You are not coming as the neolibs never comes to places that follows their guidelines (like Paraguay), because look how wonderful people are going:

- Records of deaths, but lets pretend they are just dying of flu - its just a flu anyway, right?
- 25% of reduction in GDP Per capita in US dollars, while the world had an average of 4-5%, without any sort of national quarantine. Economy super saved, right? No, it just became worse, and maybe [MENTION=4347]Virtual ghost[/MENTION] may be patient to explain why that happened for the 1000th time again.
- Most countries doesn't want brazillians anymore.

If life were fair, you would be where I am and I would be at a proper place.
Lucky of you and unlucky of me, it is not.

Hope the MODs don't mind, this was blunt and straight but still not a personal offense. These are the consequences of these "ideas".

 

[Jaguar]

One vaccine expert and developer argues that the current mass vaccination strategy with the current vaccines is the completely wrong (as in more harmful in the long-term) approach, and that it is cause of increasingly infectious strains:

I may be a Jaguar, but even I won't listen to what that veterinarian has to say.

 

[Virtual ghost]

So, what about you being true to your own word?
Come here to Brazil.
We never ever had a national quarantine.
Lots of people doesn't use and procrastinate the use mask or use them wrongly.
Lots of people are in favour of the "treatments".
Lots of people protest and fight against the quarantine, so we don't have much of that. Lots of things are open!
Vaccine? At very slow rate and the worse ones as possible.

You are not coming as the neolibs never comes to places that follows their guidelines (like Paraguay), because look how wonderful people are going:

- Records of deaths, but lets pretend they are just dying of flu - its just a flu anyway, right?
- 25% of reduction in GDP Per capita in US dollars, while the world had an average of 4-5%, without any sort of national quarantine. Economy super saved, right? No, it just became worse, and maybe [MENTION=4347]Virtual ghost[/MENTION] may be patient to explain why that happened for the 1000th time again.
- Most countries doesn't want brazillians anymore.

If life were fair, you would be where I am and I would be at a proper place.
Lucky of you and unlucky of me, it is not.

Hope the MODs don't mind, this was blunt and straight but still not a personal offense. These are the consequences of these "ideas".

True, Brazil is these days the worst country in the terms terms of new cases and deaths and the testing isn't that great either. Even if we judge per capita it isn't great, plus it is entering the cold part of the year. Therefore if US stabilizes due to mass vaccinations it is possible that Brazil would be the worst country at the end of the whole show (it is second at this point).


I don't want a vaccine, I don't want a mask, I don't want a lockdown ... this isn't how you can play this game.

 

[FemMecha]

One vaccine expert and developer argues that the current mass vaccination strategy with the current vaccines is the completely wrong (as in more harmful in the long-term) approach, and that it is cause of increasingly infectious strains:

I think there is an issue with the virus mutating once it is no longer so successful in its current form. This discussion should be taking place. I had my first dose of the Pfizer and will go for the second one. I still think that vaccinating the population is the next step, but I do think there could be consequences with more infectious strains. The question is whether or not the science will be able to keep up and respond. Based on how this first wave progressed, at least there is a fair amount of time to see the storm coming.

The individual here does have a Ph.D. in virology in addition to being a veterinarian.

 

[Jaguar]

"When we put the mask order on and actually started enforcing it, we saw a significant drop in cases."

— Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine

 

[Virtual ghost]

I think there is an issue with the virus mutating once it is no longer so successful in its current form. This discussion should be taking place. I had my first dose of the Pfizer and will go for the second one. I still think that vaccinating the population is the next step, but I do think there could be consequences with more infectious strains. The question is whether or not the science will be able to keep up and respond. Based on how this first wave progressed, at least there is a fair amount of time to see the storm coming.

The individual here does have a Ph.D. in virology in addition to being a veterinarian.

It is true I am not a doctor but this has a second side to the problem. If you leave the virus to float around generally unchecked the odds are that it will mutate anyway with time, especially if it will have plenty of hosts. Plus if we don't get rid of it the economy can't really be opened without causing a mess. Therefore the best way is trying to hit it as fast as you can before it can adapt too much.

 

[FemMecha]

It is true I am not a doctor but this has a second side to the problem. If you leave the virus to float around generally unchecked the odds are that it will mutate anyway with time, especially if it will have plenty of hosts. Plus if we don't get rid of it the economy can't really be opened without causing a mess. Therefore the best way is trying to hit it as fast as you can before it can adapt too much.

I agree. I don't see a way we don't vaccinate people. It might be a scenario where all choices will have destructive results, but my impression (which is limited by the fact I'm not a virologist or epidemiologist, but listen to several different ones) is that this virologist is presenting an issue that needs to be watched carefully, but he is focusing on a worst case scenario where the virus mutates aggressively and science and society cannot respond to those changes in time.

I read one article that described that COVID-19 has not had a lot of meaningful mutations that caught on because it was so successful, however early on Los Alamos National Lab identified 14 mutations. The question, which I read as implied in your post, is that perhaps natural herd immunity could also predicate more severe mutations. Anything that limits the success of the virus would.

I can appreciate this virologist's concerns because this scenario has never actually happened in humanity. During the 1918 pandemic, they didn't have knowledge of viruses and therefore could not create a vaccine. This is the first time I know in human history that a vaccine has been administered globally in the middle of a pandemic. I think it is fair to say we don't know for certain what is going to happen large scale. We can know for certain the virus will mutate - viruses do. They tend to mutate into more transmissible but less deadly versions of themselves. I don't know if a vaccine could result in a more deadly version. The current more contagious mutation has been said to respond to this vaccine, so it's resulting anti-bodies are broad spectrum enough to deal with some mutations.

Because of this, yes, the mutations of the virus that can resist the antibodies resulting from the vaccine and are an easily transmissible form will start to catch on and we will have to respond to it. The virologist in the video expresses the underlying assumption that these mutation will get away from us as humanity, become more severe, more contagious, and result in more death. I think it's possible, but that we actually don't know the outcome and it might not be as dire as he describes. I still want to see this discussion occurring between the professionals and to keep an eye on it.

I'm personally prepared for another year lock-down in terms of supplies, but I'm also getting the vaccine and going to try to do in person work in April. Statistically I don't think it's likely that I'll be the first to contract some new deadly form of the virus teaching piano lessons, but I will watch the news to see if one is heading this way and go back to Zoom. I think we have to be open minded and sensible and ready to respond to changes both positive and negative.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I agree. I don't see a way we don't vaccinate people. It might be a scenario where all choices will have destructive results, but my impression (which is limited by the fact I'm not a virologist or epidemiologist, but listen to several different ones) is that this virologist is presenting an issue that needs to be watched carefully, but he is focusing on a worst case scenario where the virus mutates aggressively and science and society cannot respond to those changes in time.

I read one article that described that COVID-19 has not had a lot of meaningful mutations that caught on because it was so successful, however early on Los Alamos National Lab identified 14 mutations. The question, which I read as implied in your post, is that perhaps natural herd immunity could also predicate more severe mutations. Anything that limits the success of the virus would.

I can appreciate this virologist's concerns because this scenario has never actually happened in humanity. During the 1918 pandemic, they didn't have knowledge of viruses and therefore could not create a vaccine. This is the first time I know in human history that a vaccine has been administered globally in the middle of a pandemic. I think it is fair to say we don't know for certain what is going to happen large scale. We can know for certain the virus will mutate - viruses do. They tend to mutate into more transmissible but less deadly versions of themselves. I don't know if a vaccine could result in a more deadly version. The current more contagious mutation has been said to respond to this vaccine, so it's resulting anti-bodies are broad spectrum enough to deal with some mutations.

Because of this, yes, the mutations of the virus that can resist the antibodies resulting from the vaccine and are an easily transmissible form will start to catch on and we will have to respond to it. The virologist in the video expresses the underlying assumption that these mutation will get away from us as humanity, become more severe, more contagious, and result in more death. I think it's possible, but that we actually don't know the outcome and it might not be as dire as he describes. I still want to see this discussion occurring between the professionals and to keep an eye on it.

I'm personally prepared for another year lock-down in terms of supplies, but I'm also getting the vaccine and going to try to do in person work in April. Statistically I don't think it's likely that I'll be the first to contract some new deadly form of the virus teaching piano lessons, but I will watch the news to see if one is heading this way and go back to Zoom. I think we have to be open minded and sensible and ready to respond to changes both positive and negative.

I don't think that is possible, at least if you do things right.
The last year in my country we exterminated the virus with a lockdown and properly done lockdowns can handle even serious worsening of the virus due to mutations. Therefore that can be handled if it really needs to be handled.

Take a look at the new cases from mid April to late June 2020. There is nothing there, we killed it. However we got it from abroad once again.

Worldometer Croatia

I mean we could do this once again but the crap all over the social networks are disrupting that scenario and therefore politicians don't think it would be worth it. What is kinda true if at least on the rest of the continent people don't do the same. Since otherwise we will get it once more. Therefore now the bet is on the vaccines. But if that fails for whatever the reason the solution will be a lockdown of all lockdowns, at least on the continents that manage to arrange it. While others will probably fall into chaos since their economy will fall apart, since you can't keep it on life support forever.

 

[Jaguar]

Take a look at the new cases from mid April to late June 2020. There is nothing there, we killed it.

That's because you apparently don't have a large quantity of assholes like we do:

Spring breakers flock to Covid hotspot Florida to party like it's 2019 | Coronavirus | The Guardian

 

[Virtual ghost]

That's because you apparently don't have a large quantity of assholes like we do:

Spring breakers flock to Covid hotspot Florida to party like it's 2019 | Coronavirus | The Guardian

Not really, when you take a look at that graph, there is this huge spike in the last fall (the first thing you will notice by looking at it). What is basically the work of social networks and sudden anti-science media campaigns that took over plenty of narrative, or they disrupted certain narratives. What led the healthcare system to the edge of sustainability and the government had to turn back to the doctors in the search for answers, since it was looking at the abyss. I mean it was an "experiment" that we didn't really need and it achieved just about nothing except rising the amount of deaths by about 10 times in about 2 and half months. I mean today this is complicated issue. If someone in the US (or anywhere else) is posting shit on the internet that will quickly spread elsewhere if it is nicely packed. For example: perhaps it isn't the coincidence that this abnormal spike of ours materialized at the time of peak in presidential campaign in the US (especially if we count in the incubation time). So this narrative "your assholes, my assholes" isn't really how this game works at this point. Especially if we consider that something like 15% of my nation lives in the US and they often talk to the part of family that is in the homeland. Also the info can come here and bounce back to the US since the guy will call or email another cousin. After all I can find US born Trumpers that live in US on my local sites, talking in native language. This is kinda why I often talk about the alliance of democracies since today things spill literally in the blink and that is kinda why I dared to take a part in election debates here. Since "your and mine assholes" are kinda foggy category in this issue.

 

[Jaguar]

Not really, when you take a look at that graph, there is this huge spike in the last fall (the first thing you will notice by looking at it). What is basically the work of social networks and sudden anti-science media campaigns that took over plenty of narrative, or they disrupted certain narratives. What led the healthcare system to the edge of sustainability and the government had to turn back to the doctors in the search for answers, since it was looking at the abyss. I mean it was an "experiment" that we didn't really need and it achieved just about nothing except rising the amount of deaths by about 10 times in about 2 and half months. I mean today this is complicated issue. If someone in the US (or anywhere else) is posting shit on the internet that will quickly spread elsewhere if it is nicely packed. For example: perhaps it isn't the coincidence that this abnormal spike of ours materialized at the time of peak in presidential campaign in the US (especially if we count in the incubation time). So this narrative "your assholes, my assholes" isn't really how this game works at this point. Especially if we consider that something like 15% of my nation lives in the US and they often talk to the part of family that is in the homeland. Also the info can come here and bounce back to the US since the guy will call or email another cousin. After all I can find US born Trumpers that live in US on my local sites, talking in native language. This is kinda why I often talk about the alliance of democracies since today things spill literally in the blink and that is kinda why I dared to take a part in election debates here. Since "your and mine assholes" are kinda foggy category in this issue.

There's nothing foggy about kids flocking to Florida for Spring Break. That's crystal clear. And, yes, they're 'our' assholes. I find it hard to believe thousands of college kids are leaving your country right now for mine, just so they can do shots of tequila on the beach without a mask on.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Globally we seem to be rising again (judging by worldometer).

 

[Virtual ghost]

There's nothing foggy about kids flocking to Florida for Spring Break. That's crystal clear. And, yes, they're 'our' assholes. I find it hard to believe thousands of college kids are leaving your country right now for mine, just so they can do shots of tequila on the beach without a mask on.

Of course not, they can do that here. Not to mention that we were the only country around opened for the US tourists at the time (although not many came). Plus we were open for all the countries that are near by, for which we had "Florida effect". If you look back you can even find posts with me saying this. However we were smart not to mix locals and tourists that much (which came with their cars since it is close). I mean just if the cases aren't registered in your country that doesn't mean that you have nothing do do with it. Not to mention that these countries never really recovered and now they are importing vaccines from the east in the panic. EU as our federal government should have bailed out our tourist industry that is objectively small money wise but locally massive and this would have been prevented. Although the pandemic could collapse many not so democratic politicians in those countries, so from that side this is money with the bonus, what overall makes us evidently "assholes". Perhaps even bigger ones than the ones in Florida.

Take a look at what is happening at the end of Summer after a few cycles of incubation (the parties were in August).

Worldometer Czechia
Worldometer Hungary
Worldometer Slovakia
Worldometer Slovenia

Etc.

 

[JAVO]

Hmm...

Coronavirus cases are again spiking in 13 U.S. states, according to an analysis of trends over the past week, including some states among the highest in vaccination rates as health experts warn that more contagious variants of Covid-19 will soon dominate the United States.

Covid Spiking In Over A Dozen States—Most With High Vaccination Rates

 

[FemMecha]

Hmm...



Covid Spiking In Over A Dozen States—Most With High Vaccination Rates

I'm curious about something. Throughout the pandemic you were posting links to articles downplaying the seriousness of COVID-19. Now you are posting articles suggesting the new variant is more dangerous than people realize. This complete shift is a curiosity to me. Are you primarily posting links that are contrary to whatever is the dominant narrative? Have you changed how you think and feel about the pandemic? Did you think the first global wave was not that dangerous, but the variant is a completely different story?

 

[Virtual ghost]

Here there is evidently a third wave and I am generally hiding away from people. However it is quite questionable if this would have happened in the case that the internet isn't full of nonsense about the topic. What all came from abroad as a mindset. Plus protests that were evidently the consequence of that were rated as super-spreading events, since there is no way what wasn't the case judging by the pictures. The government is trying to put out the fire.