Coronavirus

[Virtual ghost]

I don't think some idiots justify the govs of the world (mostly manned by idiots and ethically bankrupt people anyway) taking away everybody's rights though. We essentially have the same rights as prisoners right now - it's nothing we should want to impose on others.
It's easier to punish its citizens than China (ie, the responsible party) - What western govs are doing is to good governance what crappy parents hitting their kid is to parenting.


And as to the media, where are they when half as many people die every year from the Flu? No one gives a shit when there are no ad placements to sell.

and ps: I've been for the criminalisation of intentional exposure to illness for a long time - long before this particular pandemic. That still doesn't mean you get to lock everybody up.

I know that this is basically a rant but ....


Yes, but that is the catch. In the case this wasn't done this way there would be much more dead than from the flu season. Especially since this is more contagious and it is new so no one has natural resistance. Plus this virus isn't retreating like the flu during spring and therefore you have to fight it directly.

 

[Mind Maverick]

I think this thread is interesting just because you can look back on peoples' reactions to the coronavirus since before it became a pandemic. The progression is interesting. That said, I miss corona free days.

 

[Lexicon]

I don't think some idiots justify the govs of the world (mostly manned by idiots and ethically bankrupt people anyway) taking away everybody's rights though. We essentially have the same rights as prisoners right now - it's nothing we should want to impose on others.
It's easier to punish its citizens than China (ie, the responsible party) - What western govs are doing is to good governance what crappy parents hitting their kid is to parenting.

And as to the media, where are they when half as many people die every year from the Flu? No one gives a shit when there are no ad placements to sell.

and ps: I've been for the criminalisation of intentional exposure to illness for a long time - long before this particular pandemic. That still doesn't mean you get to lock everybody up.

I can't speak to conditions where you live, but here [in the US] it's pretty much just, don't have mass gatherings & wear a mask when you go out. Some have to stay home from work. That's nowhere near a loss of rights equal to a prisoner. And no one here is locked up.

It's not that hard to wear a mask. These people are just selfish & stunted. There's no defending that, imo.

 

[FemMecha]

I can't speak to conditions where you live, but here [in the US] it's pretty much just, don't have mass gatherings & wear a mask when you go out. Some have to stay home from work. That's nowhere near a loss of rights equal to a prisoner. And no one here is locked up.

It's not that hard to wear a mask. These people are just selfish & stunted. There's no defending that, imo.

Strangely I find this pandemic is revealing just how little many people have suffered. When they compare wearing a mask and not having mass gatherings to being in prison, slavery, being in a Nazi concentration camp, I realize that they have the luxury of having no concept of actual suffering.

I hate to say it, but the United States has a well established spoilt brat culture. The behavior is the same as when you tell an indulged child that 'no', they need to sit down and finish their worksheet before going outside. They get mad, threaten violence, use exaggerate descriptions of they suffering. It's being told 'no' at all is what is triggering Americans.

I think this pandemic is too big to be planned or controlled like the conspiracy people describe, but people at all levels are trying to take advantage of it from all sides. From little scams to possibly other countries trying to egg-on the American tendency towards this self-indulged perspective and behavior. No one can win a military conflict with the U.S., but send in the virus, and trigger their bratty attitudes, and the whole fucking thing could come down to ruins.

 

[Justin of Flavia Neapolis]

A study in which an asymptomatic carrier failed to infect the 455 people around him.

A Study on Infectivity of Asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 Carriers - PubMed

🤪: “sTaY tHe F- hOmE”

 

[Vendrah]

I don't think some idiots justify the govs of the world (mostly manned by idiots and ethically bankrupt people anyway) taking away everybody's rights though. We essentially have the same rights as prisoners right now - it's nothing we should want to impose on others.
It's easier to punish its citizens than China (ie, the responsible party) - What western govs are doing is to good governance what crappy parents hitting their kid is to parenting.

And as to the media, where are they when half as many people die every year from the Flu? No one gives a shit when there are no ad placements to sell.

and ps: I've been for the criminalisation of intentional exposure to illness for a long time - long before this particular pandemic. That still doesn't mean you get to lock everybody up.

I find the actions from most people talking about this conspiracy quite funny.
Supposing that this is correct, that China did created the virus, then the worst thing you can do is to ignore the quarantine, deny the masks and say this is just a flu. And that is exactly what people blaming China are doing and the politician these people recommend so as well. If someone from China created the virus, this someone should be thanking Trump, Bolsonaro and a lot of far right wingers for making it more efficient and more deadlier. Actually, the person from this conspiracy should be applauding these people.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I find the actions from most people talking about this conspiracy quite funny.
Supposing that this is correct, that China did created the virus, then the worst thing you can do is to ignore the quarantine, deny the masks and say this is just a flu. And that is exactly what people blaming China are doing and the politician these people recommend so as well. If someone from China created the virus, this someone should be thanking Trump, Bolsonaro and a lot of far right wingers for making it more efficient and more deadlier. Actually, the person from this conspiracy should be applauding these people.

This is what I said directly or indirectly a number of times. Since the logic just doesn't add up.
However it is also possible that the entire anti vaccine movement is for the most part a work of intelligence efforts from certain countries. You don't want vaccines, you don't want lockdown ... that basically means that this pandemic is the hill on which you are sacrificing good chunk of the population in the case of uncontrolled pandemic. What in Machiavellian logic means that this was a blow that was perhaps planned for a long time.



Therefore all of this really is too convenient for China. They probably didn't infect their country first but it is possible that they have weaponized/directed the virus when it happened. This is a little bit to conspiracy theory side of things but when you calculate in the mess in US and how many countries are becoming dependent on medical supplies from China all of this really was pretty much what China needed. Plus it seems that they will grow economically even this year when most of the world will not. What means large gaining of ground for sure. Not to mention that the military is also handicapped. US already had a major mess on one aircraft carrier due to the virus, what is excellent environment for spreading the virus.



Geopolitical saving grace is that Russia also fell into problems while EU is digging itself out pretty well. What is equalizing the playing field a little bit regarding the balance between dictatorship and democracy.

 

[Lexicon]

This is unsettling:

Nearly half of Twitter accounts pushing to reopen America may be bots, researchers say.

 

[Vendrah]

This is what I said directly or indirectly a number of times. Since the logic just doesn't add up.
However it is also possible that the entire anti vaccine movement is for the most part a work of intelligence efforts from certain countries. You don't want vaccines, you don't want lockdown ... that basically means that this pandemic is the hill on which you are sacrificing good chunk of the population in the case of uncontrolled pandemic. What in Machiavellian logic means that this was a blow that was perhaps planned for a long time.



Therefore all of this really is too convenient for China. They probably didn't infect their country first but it is possible that they have weaponized/directed the virus when it happened. This is a little bit to conspiracy theory side of things but when you calculate in the mess in US and how many countries are becoming dependent on medical supplies from China all of this really was pretty much what China needed. Plus it seems that they will grow economically even this year when most of the world will not. What means large gaining of ground for sure. Not to mention that the military is also handicapped. US already had a major mess on one aircraft carrier due to the virus, what is excellent environment for spreading the virus.



Geopolitical saving grace is that Russia also fell into problems while EU is digging itself out pretty well. What is equalizing the playing field a little bit regarding the balance between dictatorship and democracy.

Its cool from your part to analyze the post-corona scenario, I even have a thread for that:
World after Corona Virus

In my location, people and politicians in special only came up with this Chinese conspiracy stuff in April. Today they somewhat keep it. President Bolsonaro is doing whatever he can to not take any responsibility for the deaths despite him telling everything to open (the most powerful minister here is almost the 2nd in command and it is a neoliberal guy who is holding the assistance so they can say that the quarantine will kill people by starvation and bla bla bla). In one conversation (I dont remember the context, that was some time ago), when asked about the deaths, Bolsonaro just said "Ask China" (something like that). In here, this conspiracy serves to exempt/acquit Bolsonaro and far right wingers from Corona deaths.

I actually have a similar train of thought as you on this and I think this conspiracy should be taken seriously. But so far I never saw any serious version of it. I only saw this conspiracy being attached and used with the "f*ck it, lets open everything". Well, anyway, it seems that it seems that this is the time (in US case) for the NSA/CIA to finally have a decent work to do.

This is unsettling:

Nearly half of Twitter accounts pushing to reopen America may be bots, researchers say.

Im not surprised.

 

[Lexicon]

Just... wow..

Second Amendment supporters protest COVID-19 restrictions at Capitol

Pastor Cliff Christman said that law isn’t relative, and to understand the country’s laws, one should understand Biblical law.

“This has been one of the biggest shams in world history,” Christman said. “Grown men have been hiding in (their) homes nearly wetting their pants over this invisible enemy that nobody sees. Where is it at? Let it come out and face us. I serve the one true and living God who conquers all enemies. Why should we give our freedom and our liberties up for such fear (and) propaganda and all the garbage that is coming out of Frankfort today?”

Glad I live far, far from Kentucky. Still, my country. Still an enormous embarrassment.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Its cool from your part to analyze the post-corona scenario, I even have a thread for that:
World after Corona Virus

In my location, people and politicians in special only came up with this Chinese conspiracy stuff in April. Today they somewhat keep it. President Bolsonaro is doing whatever he can to not take any responsibility for the deaths despite him telling everything to open (the most powerful minister here is almost the 2nd in command and it is a neoliberal guy who is holding the assistance so they can say that the quarantine will kill people by starvation and bla bla bla). In one conversation (I dont remember the context, that was some time ago), when asked about the deaths, Bolsonaro just said "Ask China" (something like that). In here, this conspiracy serves to exempt/acquit Bolsonaro and far right wingers from Corona deaths.

I actually have a similar train of thought as you on this and I think this conspiracy should be taken seriously. But so far I never saw any serious version of it. I only saw this conspiracy being attached and used with the "f*ck it, lets open everything". Well, anyway, it seems that it seems that this is the time (in US case) for the NSA/CIA to finally have a decent work to do.

Usually here we don't get much news from Brazil, but the current pandemic changed that. Brazil every day get some TV news time at this point. I mean it is stupid, people scream on the street that everyone has to go on the street since the communists and governors are taking over. Therefore if there is indeed a conspiracy these people are going directly into a trap (virus trap).


Actually what is going on kinda reminds me of ww2 in my part of the world. First the far right in the form of fascists took over and destroyed everything that previously existed. Plus they promised all kinds of things. However after big drama they imploded and that created a power vacuum that allowed the rise of Communism (that lasted for half a century).






However in Europe it is well known that far right is for the most part just a Trojan horse of Russia and China. In Austria there were snap elections because the leader of far right that was a part of government said into the camera something that he would sell the country to the Russians for more power. However he was thinking that he is talking to Russian spies instead of masked press. Russia gave money to far right in France for election campaign. In Italy there is an investigation about connections between Russia and local far right. The biggest base of far right in Germany is in East Germany that was a Russian "colony" for the half of century. In Hungary far right is taking money from China for all kinds of projects. How Brexit happened still isn't 100% clear in all details. Etc. Etc. You can write the whole books about the subject.


In other words it is in the interest of certain dictatorships that the coalition of democracies falls apart due to cheap nationalism. Since on that way they no longer have a real competition globally. Also if you have dictatorship everywhere that means that a very narrow group of people will run the whole world. What then means that making new democracy out of scratch will be a challenge, since that means declaring the war on the whole world. I mean that is simply a logical inevitability if we ever get to this situations. That is why genuine democracy must be preserved almost by any means possible. Since due to strategic implications and various new technologies this process of undermining basic democracy could be irreversible. Far right, far left, theocracy ... it doesn't make that much of difference in the end.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

From NYT: The Coronavirus Is Deadliest Where Democrats Live

Democrats are far more likely to live in counties where the virus has ravaged the community, while Republicans are more likely to live in counties that have been relatively unscathed by the illness, though they are paying an economic price. Counties won by President Trump in 2016 have reported just 27 percent of the virus infections and 21 percent of the deaths — even though 45 percent of Americans live in these communities, a New York Times analysis has found.

The very real difference in death rates has helped fuel deep disagreement over the dangers of the pandemic and how the country should proceed. Right-wing media, which moved swiftly from downplaying the severity of the crisis to calling it a Democratic plot to bring down the president, has exacerbated the rift. And even as the nation’s top medical experts note the danger of easing restrictions, communities across the country are doing so, creating a patchwork of regulations, often along ideological lines.
​

I personally know two people who have lost family members so far in the Chicago area - the youngest was 41 years old. And I'm a card-carrying hermit (don't know a great many people).

 

[Virtual ghost]

From NYT: The Coronavirus Is Deadliest Where Democrats Live

Democrats are far more likely to live in counties where the virus has ravaged the community, while Republicans are more likely to live in counties that have been relatively unscathed by the illness, though they are paying an economic price. Counties won by President Trump in 2016 have reported just 27 percent of the virus infections and 21 percent of the deaths — even though 45 percent of Americans live in these communities, a New York Times analysis has found.

The very real difference in death rates has helped fuel deep disagreement over the dangers of the pandemic and how the country should proceed. Right-wing media, which moved swiftly from downplaying the severity of the crisis to calling it a Democratic plot to bring down the president, has exacerbated the rift. And even as the nation’s top medical experts note the danger of easing restrictions, communities across the country are doing so, creating a patchwork of regulations, often along ideological lines.
​

I personally know two people who have lost family members so far in the Chicago area - the youngest was 41 years old. And I'm a card-carrying hermit (don't know a great many people).

Well, that one is easy to explain.


1. If the virus is coming from abroad it is logical that it first hits cities next to the airports (and semi-lockdown slowed the spread towards red counties)
2. Blue counties are more tightly packed in the terms of population
3. Blue counties have more colored people that are generally less prepared for this
4. Rural areas have less healthcare and it is further away, some more of it goes undetected



In the times like these having a working farm in the middle of the nowhere is perhaps the best set of cards you could have.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Well, that one is easy to explain.


1. If the virus is coming from abroad it is logical that it first hits cities next to the airports (and semi-lockdown slowed the spread towards red counties)
2. Blue counties are more tightly packed in the terms of population

4. Rural areas have less healthcare and it is further away, some more of it goes undetected

Yeah, that blue areas are more effected practically goes without saying - but it's good to have confirmation, if only to help explain why red social bubbles lean towards perceiving it so differently.

eta: And it maybe helps explain why red areas are more prone to be influenced by the "reopen" bots.

NPR: Researchers: Nearly Half Of Accounts Tweeting About Coronavirus Are Likely Bots

Researchers culled through more than 200 million tweets since January discussing the virus and found that about 45% were sent by accounts that behave more like computerized robots than humans.

It is too early to say conclusively what individuals or groups are behind the bot accounts, but researchers said the tweets appeared aimed at sowing divisions in America.

"We do know that it looks like it's a propaganda machine, and it definitely matches the Russian and Chinese playbooks, but it would take a tremendous amount of resources to substantiate that," said Kathleen Carley, a professor of computer science at Carnegie Mellon University, who is conducting a study into bot-generated coronavirus activity on Twitter that has yet to be published.
​

/eta

3. Blue counties have more colored people that are generally less prepared for this

This is phrased awkwardly. I assume you're trying to point out wealth disparity and how low income social pockets (made up largely of "essential workers") are hit the hardest, and these pockets are disproportionately high in minorities.

 

[Virtual ghost]

This is phrased awkwardly. I assume you're trying to point out wealth disparity and how low income social pockets (made up largely of "essential workers") are hit the hardest, and these pockets are disproportionately high in minorities.

Yes, that was the point. (ok, colored is perhaps wrong word to use here)

 

[Red Memories]

Well, that one is easy to explain.


1. If the virus is coming from abroad it is logical that it first hits cities next to the airports (and semi-lockdown slowed the spread towards red counties)
2. Blue counties are more tightly packed in the terms of population
3. Blue counties have more colored people that are generally less prepared for this
4. Rural areas have less healthcare and it is further away, some more of it goes undetected



In the times like these having a working farm in the middle of the nowhere is perhaps the best set of cards you could have.

yeah I'm thinking in a place like Idaho, it is pretty rural in parts, some places don't even have hospitals. they gotta go to the next town to even get groceries. We have a lower case number, but it seems obvious why that would be. We are NATURALLY distanced and secondly they likely aren't going to get tested as much.

 

[Red Memories]

Following CDC guidelines is one thing but must of the religious reopening seem to be basing their reopening on faith in deities protecting them from the virus despite ignoring said guidelines, hence all the latest reports of surges in cases taking place after religious gatherings. I'm fine with a drive-in church in theory but that doesn't seem to be what's taking place.

There was a state, my mother was telling me about it, that had a drive in they were doing, everything was to stay in their cars and just listen etc. They got shut down. I know a few churches here are slowly beginning to reopen, but usually are doing outdoor services with seating put 6 feet apart.

here we go, some actual stuff on it:
Justice Department defends Mississippi drive-in church service
NY pastor faces $1,000 fine for holding drive-in church service - The Christian Post
Police Shutdown Of West Bend Church Service A 'Misunderstanding' | Wisconsin Public Radio
People ticketed $500 each after attending Greenville drive-in church service
NJ coronavirus: Paterson church forced to shut down outdoor services

I just question some of it.

Sadly, also, as with everything, the worst of the group is the one getting the headlines, not the ones actually facing issues while doing the correct thing. I also know this media prefers to pick out the worst of Christians, since they like to make it out we are all in fact misogynistic, racist, homophobic bigots who need "enlightened" and "brought up to the times". At least that's the super mainstream media, that likes to follow the "SJW" train of thought. We aren't all standing outside saying GOD WILL PROTECT US because some of us actually go hey God gave us a brain to use. God said our body is a temple of the Holy Spirit therefore we need to respect it. part of that is taking care of ourselves, so we do not get sickly. If we do, works of mercy, we do not work to not care and get others sick. That's the Christianity I know though. But yeah, I think these things are why Trump is saying he'll sign an executive order to allow churches within the CDC guidelines to reopen - because some states are fighting this kind of thing.

I have absolutely NO issue with a church NOT following guidelines and being that reckless being shut down and the pastors fined. they deserve it. they are leading their flock ignorantly.

 

[Mind Maverick]

I'm going to be surprised if I don't end up with this shit.

 

[Mind Maverick]

Also, to all you assholes out there who ignore social distancing and just go on about business as usual, and make it impossible for others to do social distancing when they have to go to stores, etc...stop it. Just stop. Some of us actually care whether we get this shit, some of us are actually worried about dying if we do. Quit being careless about putting peoples' lives in danger.

 

[Virtual ghost]

yeah I'm thinking in a place like Idaho, it is pretty rural in parts, some places don't even have hospitals. they gotta go to the next town to even get groceries. We have a lower case number, but it seems obvious why that would be. We are NATURALLY distanced and secondly they likely aren't going to get tested as much.

I know. This is why I said what I did.
Plus if you have to pay for the test as I heard it is logical that in rural areas people are more likely to skip the whole thing.