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Coronavirus

Red Herring

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What happened to this thread? It used to be a relatively normal discussion but a few days ago it suddenly started to be dominated by a toxic mixture of malignace, ignorance and blatent lies. Just what the world - and the forum - needs right now.

:shock::(:doh::dry:
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
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What happened to this thread? It used to be a relatively normal discussion but a few days ago it suddenly started to be dominated by a toxic mixture of malignace, ignorance and blatent lies. Just what the world - and the forum - needs right now.

:shock::(:doh::dry:


What happened ? America is in complete chaos.
From what I have seen in my own media Trump said that in the case of things getting worse due to pandemic there will not be a new lockdown. What in other words means that if the pandemic starts to get worse due to opening of everything that is pretty much it. Literally 1/4 of the workforce lost their jobs and through that they lost any chance of paying their own medical bills. Presidential candidates are bad even by American standards. Some dams collapsed the other day. BS is all over the media. Federal debt will pass 120% of GDP by the end of the month. With local debts added that is something like 135%. Etc.



To average European simply isn't clear that the US as we know it is basically coming to an end. We solved out pandemic problem for now fairly well, we all have health insurance, less debt, many are planning summer vacations, we don't sit on huge piles of private guns (that can go off at any time), .... etc. Therefore our agony is much milder, especially since we have a culture/history of "taking damage at home".
 

anticlimatic

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What happened ? America is in complete chaos.

If it is, it's nothing out of the ordinary. We are fairly at home in chaos.

The only thing that happened to this thread was that a bevy of good news over the last few weeks for the US (and world) tanked the disaster porn narrative that many people have been pushing. Crickets and posts from individuals who never bought into that narrative (ie, toxic malignant ignorance and blatant lies I guess we are calling it) are all that's been left to fill the void. I'm sure there will be some more bad news at some point to get the ol media misanthrope engine started again.

Opinion | It’s OK to Acknowledge Good Covid-19 News - POLITICO

The press has a natural affinity for catastrophes, which make compelling viewing and good copy. The pandemic is indeed a once-in-a-generation story. So the media is naturally loath to shift gears and acknowledge that the coronavirus has begun to loosen its grip.

Meanwhile, progressives and many journalists have developed a near-theological commitment to the lockdowns, such that any information that undermines them is considered unwelcome, even threatening. This accounts for the widespread sense that no one should say things have gotten better ... or people are going to die.

Usually when it is thought the public can’t handle the truth, it is a truth about some threat that could spark panic. In this case, the truth is information that might make people think it’s safe to go outside again.
 

Maou

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Far as I can tell personally, everything is back to normal. Only thing notably different is people are more hygenic (wear masks), and companies took measure to enforce arbitrary protections to keep people happy. I would say eventually, Corona deaths will not make the news anymore just like influenza. News only reports on things that make money. The stories will become less and less.
 

Z Buck McFate

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I dont think he is INFJ and INFJ forum mostly does not follow or align with this opinion (they hate Trump more than Typology Central).

(Contributing to derail only because I trust it'll get moved with the rest to off topic anyway) I don't think INFJness even remotely exempts people from being Trump supporters. If anything, it gives their support for Trump a certain histrionic panache.

(I can say this because I'm INFJ).

It's also the reason he can only say - wrong wrong wrong with nothing of substance.

INFJs (because of the Ni-Ti loop, inasmuch as the Ni-Ti loop is a 'real' thing) will often start shooting at what's 'wrong' with the other person's perception (i.e. how their 'lenses' through which they see the world are foggy, relying on accusations of confirmation bias or 'not seeing the forest through the trees', etc) of instead of what's wrong with the content the other person is putting forth. If a person consistently responds by shooting at the person's perception (to point out 'why they're seeing the wrong thing') instead of shooting at the actual content (to point out what is inaccurate about the perception, instead of why the perception is inaccurate), then you might be dealing with an INFJ.

The inability to stay focused on content indeed has the consequence of lacking substance, especially to other types (which, unfortunately, the person doing it can be oblivious to - I've certainly been there).
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
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What happened ? America is in complete chaos.
From what I have seen in my own media Trump said that in the case of things getting worse due to pandemic there will not be a new lockdown. What in other words means that if the pandemic starts to get worse due to opening of everything that is pretty much it. Literally 1/4 of the workforce lost their jobs and through that they lost any chance of paying their own medical bills. Presidential candidates are bad even by American standards. Some dams collapsed the other day. BS is all over the media. Federal debt will pass 120% of GDP by the end of the month. With local debts added that is something like 135%. Etc.



To average European simply isn't clear that the US as we know it is basically coming to an end. We solved out pandemic problem for now fairly well, we all have health insurance, less debt, many are planning summer vacations, we don't sit on huge piles of private guns (that can go off at any time), .... etc. Therefore our agony is much milder, especially since we have a culture/history of "taking damage at home".
It is a mess here, and I am afraid of what will take place next, both in terms of the virus and the behaviors of society. I see over 50% of people wearing masks at the grocery store where I shop, but I think it is a favorite store of the elderly. No one wears masks in my apartment complex or when I see people anywhere outside. Those are the only places I go because I'm extremely quarantining still.

The following is not the norm, but it is happening in my state. Also people are congregating at bars.

Wisconsin campground bans masks in buildings, fearing robberies
 

anticlimatic

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(Contributing to derail only because I trust it'll get moved with the rest to off topic anyway) I don't think INFJness even remotely exempts people from being Trump supporters. If anything, it gives their support for Trump a certain histrionic panache. (I can say this because I'm INFJ). INFJs (because of the Ni-Ti loop, inasmuch as the Ni-Ti loop is a 'real' thing) will often start shooting at what's 'wrong' with the other person's perception (i.e. how their 'lenses' through which they see the world are foggy, relying on accusations of confirmation bias or 'not seeing the forest through the trees', etc) of instead of what's wrong with the content the other person is putting forth. If a person consistently responds by shooting at the person's perception (to point out 'why they're seeing the wrong thing') instead of shooting at the actual content (to point out what is inaccurate about the perception, instead of why the perception is inaccurate), then you might be dealing with an INFJ. The inability to stay focused on content indeed has the consequence of lacking substance, especially to other types (which, unfortunately, the person doing it can be oblivious to - I've certainly been there).
I revoke my DNC regarding you, with apologies, and no hard feelings if you want to reinstate it from your end. I took a test and scored INTJ-A, which as a functions guy can't be accurate because there's nothing Te about me and I'm the farthest thing from a controlling misanthrope there is. The only issue I had with you was perceived stubbornness on your end to discuss minutia too far below the level of discourse I enjoy having, despite my efforts to find some mutually enjoyable ground to chat. I assume enjoyable discourse is the reason everyone is here, unless people are narcissistic to the point that they think anything said here is making any kind of difference or impact on the world.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
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It is a mess here, and I am afraid of what will take place next, both in terms of the virus and the behaviors of society. I see over 50% of people wearing masks at the grocery store where I shop, but I think it is a favorite store of the elderly. No one wears masks in my apartment complex or when I see people anywhere outside. Those are the only places I go because I'm extremely quarantining still.

The following is not the norm, but it is happening in my state. Also people are congregating at bars.

Wisconsin campground bans masks in buildings, fearing robberies



Well, you don't have to explain any of that to me. In these parts you can watch right wing news, left wing news or centrist news and they all define US as disaster zone in the terms of the pandemic. The fact that to some things look normal is actually a part of the problem. Since the further you move away from the semi-lockdown the problem should become more obvious. Because the numbers show there is still plenty of infected people around and incubation is about 5-15 days. In my country we had doubts about opening most of economy with only 300 active known active cases. While within US with 1 000 000+ active cases it is ok to do that, what in my book is huge gamble that will probably only make more mess. Yes it is huge country and if everyone were really really careful this could perhaps work. But with current paradigms and attitude I wouldn't place bets on harmless outcomes.



Also I just see first mass declaration of people getting cured in US, therefore active cases in US are about 37 thousands down on worldometer. But that is still only about 3% of the whole way, which are btw. very easy to gain back if you are not careful. What is actually the main problem from the start, the country gambles away gains too easily. Lockdown cost huge amount of money but it seems that the system wasn't purged from the virus 50-95% as if in almost all other developed countries. Since the daily gains due to the "clumsy" behavior ate that away.
 
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For the institutionalized, the path of least psychological resistance is to surrender the desire for freedom and autonomy and defer instead to authority figures—our captors who surely know what’s best for all of us."
​
I hadn't thought about viewing any of this through the lens of Stockholm Syndrome. Psychology must be having a field day with this pandemic lockdown.
The Quarantining - Noah Rothman, Commentary Magazine
 

Vendrah

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[MENTION=7842]Z Buck McFate[/MENTION]
May I repeat: I have issues with tertiary function and a fixed and rigid stack and not with the cognitive functions.
The link I gave before explains with plenty of details.
What I have seem is that pair as we know forms a lot of times, but sometimes they wont (borderline and Jung J/P issues in short), and the back of the stack is not that much reliable. I found out that swapping the tertiary for the type domain (NF domain is intuitive and feeling cognitive functions) in a loose way is the best approach and one of my methods use Ni-Fe-Fi, with Fi instead of Ti. But thats an approximation for the average INFJ, depending on the enneagram it will change. Tert. Ti works well for INFJ 5.
My point here and it is not actually derailing the thread is that we cannot really do much assumptions on based on loops and type someone because the persons seems to be on a loop. Most Ni-Ti people are some sort of INTPs or INTJs (and actually there is a discussion about stacks with people interpretating Jung as Ni-Ti being the pair for INTJ type).
And my second point is that between using a highly doubtable theory of fixed stacks to say what INFJs thinks about the issues (or even making assumptions about what they should think) or considering what INFJ fórum opinion looks like on their own Corona thread, doing the latter is way more reasonable. And their general opinion, in short, is for the lockdown and against Trump. They dont deny the Corona crisis at all, they embrace it. They are not saying “this crisis is fake” or anything on that sort. Being INFJ wont auto-imply not being a Trump supporter, but the majority of INFJ forum is against Trump and from there I take that the majority of overall INFJs are against Trump as well.
And just as a matter of fact, me, Virtual Ghost and you are “linked” in enneagram, although we are different MBTI types.
[MENTION=10251]Red Herring[/MENTION]
[MENTION=4347]Virtual ghost[/MENTION] recommended last week, I think, some people to retire a bit from the discussion. He didnt meant badly. I followed the advice and I became less present, some people became less present too.

I mean, Im not on the list for malignance, ignorance and lies, I think?

We are at more than 200 pages, and sometimes keep repeating the same stuff over and over is tiring. But after your comment Im thinking of getting back again.

Anyway, I live on one of the countries with most cases of Corona, people are dying already and more are going to die, and there is not much I can do. I am accepting it =(.
We are not fully powerless on this thread, but yeah, most politicians who run the world are some sort of ES and not Introverted Intuitives. It varies from country to country, but it seems like half of the US and a lot of influential people in my country are against quarantine. The few ones against quarantine here can serve to we understand how these people think in a more or less way because they will explain it differently. This thread has less malign messages and lies (specially the latter) than the few groups on my whatsapp that has very active right-wing against quarantine supporters.
 

Z Buck McFate

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I'm probably the wrong person to discuss this with, since I don't buy about 85% of mbti tangents. Especially when it comes to tangents about functions.

When I say "Ni-Ti loop", I'm personally referring to something that is necessarily an INFJ experience (and calling it such is based on past discussion here with other INFJs) - but it's not surprising that others have discussed a Ni-Ti loop as being something different, and I forget that it's not always the same thing INFJs have discussed here in the past. If you're referring to something common to INTPs and INTJs, then we're likely referring to different tendencies. (This came up in the context of seeing some Ni-Ti looping in this thread - and I have seen some of what I consider to be INFJ tunnel vision/blind spot behavior - but I do consider it a side tangent. I responded to add "yeah I see something here too", with the assumption it would soon be jettisoned into the Off Topic ether with the rest.)
 

Siúil a Rúin

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COVID-19 can in some circumstances be transmitted to pets. It wasn't clear to me in this article if they show symptoms or are just capable of carrying the virus. The tigers showed symptoms, but only a few of the pets infected with the virus showed symptoms. This makes me concerned because I have cats that are now more important to me than ever.

COVID-19 and Animals | CDC

EDIT: "Only a few of the pets infected with the virus showed symptoms".
 

Red Herring

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How Russia’s coronavirus crisis got so bad


In short: overconfident and incompetent leadership.







However there seems to be a pattern:
Feel free to guess which 2 of these giants have trained scientist at the helm and which 2 seem to do be doing much better in the pandemic than the rest.


US
Russia
China
Brazil
India
EU


comic-cartoon-bang-exsplosion-surprise-text-vector-stock-explosion-boom-word-72222366.jpg
 
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