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Coronavirus

anticlimatic

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I have a small question about this part that kinda frustrates me.

for instance, here in Idaho because of this, some farmers have began just giving away some of the crop so at least it helps people.

why the hell aren't we giving this food to the vulnerable people or homeless? It seriously bugs me if you have that much excess and you are gonna write it off either way, why not HELP people with it????

My guess is lack of infrastructure. Finding the x amount of places where it could go, where people would want it, getting it there, etc. With time they could get a system going, but the way things kind of happened overnight- knowing that any large changes would be temporary, therefore not worth investing huge amounts of time and resources into- I think we are just seeing a trickle down impact of the sudden severity over how we responded to the virus. Just to guess. I don't actually know for certain firsthand.
 

Virtual ghost

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Carnival to Resume Some Cruise Sailings in August After Monthslong Pause - WSJ

These things are a petri dish of e-coli and norovirus in the best times. That crimes against humanity thing is appropriate - seize all these ships, take them to the middle of the Atlantic and sink them.


Actually I am more interested in what kind of a person would buy a ticket for this in current climate ? (since all of this evidently wouldn't be over by August)


The ship of the mad - literally. :wacko:
 

Red Memories

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Actually I am more interested in what kind of a person would buy a ticket for this in current climate ? (since all of this evidently wouldn't be over by August)


The ship of the mad - literally. :wacko:

...the level of stupidity to do this astounds me greatly....

- - - Updated - - -

Carnival to Resume Some Cruise Sailings in August After Monthslong Pause - WSJ



These things are a petri dish of e-coli and norovirus in the best times. That crimes against humanity thing is appropriate - seize all these ships, take them to the middle of the Atlantic and sink them.

I vote for this as well, protect dumbasses from themselves.
 

Red Memories

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Trump has been stating he will not help the USPS unless they "triple" the cost of their services...and honestly that is just bullshit to me. He just keeps adding to the list of reasons he can go fuck himself.
 

Virtual ghost

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Trump has been stating he will not help the USPS unless they "triple" the cost of their services...and honestly that is just bullshit to me. He just keeps adding to the list of reasons he can go fuck himself.



If they triple the costs will they even need help anymore ? (I presume this is about some kind of bailout)
 

Red Memories

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If they triple the costs will they even need help anymore ? (I presume this is about some kind of bailout)

Well I think that is his goal, because this isn't the first time the USPS has needed help, and he claims it is because the guy in charge is terrible at his job. The reality is USPS is the most affordable shipping service for those on a budget. A great deal of the people who vote for him utilize USPS and if they tripled their prices, they'd be as difficult to afford as any other postal service. I really hope this doesn't happen. When I was selling a few things on ebay, I realized just how much more UPS or FedEx charges you for similar services... x.x plus in my experience almost every postal employee I've been around is pretty nice. I think they care more about the person there than other places. Maybe just me. I like that people interaction of feeling like the company cares about you or your needs. XD I have never gotten that from FedEx...we used to have a really kind UPS delivery driver but I think he retired... otherwise haven't felt it from them either... and Amazon's delivery people are...different...to say the least....
 

Virtual ghost

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Well I think that is his goal, because this isn't the first time the USPS has needed help, and he claims it is because the guy in charge is terrible at his job. The reality is USPS is the most affordable shipping service for those on a budget. A great deal of the people who vote for him utilize USPS and if they tripled their prices, they'd be as difficult to afford as any other postal service. I really hope this doesn't happen. When I was selling a few things on ebay, I realized just how much more UPS or FedEx charges you for similar services... x.x plus in my experience almost every postal employee I've been around is pretty nice. I think they care more about the person there than other places. Maybe just me. I like that people interaction of feeling like the company cares about you or your needs. XD I have never gotten that from FedEx...we used to have a really kind UPS delivery driver but I think he retired... otherwise haven't felt it from them either... and Amazon's delivery people are...different...to say the least....



In that case the story is obvious. All postal services should be standardized at higher price.
Ok, rise 30 or 50 percent if there is a problem but triple will surely create some kind of a rip off. (otherwise the current system would have crashed long ago)
 

Mind Maverick

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Some people are too anxious to return to normal lives and as a result are only heading for their graves instead. Can't people find other things to do? Is entertainment like cruise ships that necessary?
 

ceecee

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Well I think that is his goal, because this isn't the first time the USPS has needed help, and he claims it is because the guy in charge is terrible at his job. The reality is USPS is the most affordable shipping service for those on a budget. A great deal of the people who vote for him utilize USPS and if they tripled their prices, they'd be as difficult to afford as any other postal service. I really hope this doesn't happen. When I was selling a few things on ebay, I realized just how much more UPS or FedEx charges you for similar services... x.x plus in my experience almost every postal employee I've been around is pretty nice. I think they care more about the person there than other places. Maybe just me. I like that people interaction of feeling like the company cares about you or your needs. XD I have never gotten that from FedEx...we used to have a really kind UPS delivery driver but I think he retired... otherwise haven't felt it from them either... and Amazon's delivery people are...different...to say the least....

Well, I look forward to people being shocked when they need to pay $17 for their mail in ballot to vote for Trump.

But Congress, not Amazon fucked up the USPS..

Be Careful What You Assume | USPS Office of Inspector General
 

anticlimatic

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I just noticed the edit.





The bolded part is correct and that is EXACTLY why I am advocating "shock-therapy". However US shouldn't open because it didn't do the lockdown properly. Therefore with opening the problem is likely to become even bigger. On the long run the smallest shock for the economy is actually to just punch through this with HC lockdown. While everything else basically just creates agony and new cases. However in US economy seems to be too sacred even for temporary sacrifice. In a way this is nice devilish trap, you have to squash it in order to save it.




While the governing problem is something I admit that it is real problem from the start. The number of cases in US shows that pretty clearly. However for me opening in current situation would just be the continuation of bad governing. But if US really wants to open: be my guest. I will not be directly influenced. My posts are basically "friendly advice".

As long as the healthcare system doesn't get overrun, which is something I believe we can manage since we have so far, I'm inclined to unlock as much as possible as soon as possible. Obviously things that group people together in huge numbers like sports and concerts and festivals will have to be a thing of the past until this is completely resolved, but I am curious how well people do when they social distance by choice instead of by mandate, which most likely will. I will say however that if there is enough data driven promise for a vaccine in January, that could change public willingness to hold out until then. Though difficult, that could be a timeline worth looking into. "Indefinitely" is definitely a no-go though. Not with so many people's lives and careers on the line. Not with a 1% fatality rate.
 

Maou

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As long as the healthcare system doesn't get overrun, which is something I believe we can manage since we have so far, I'm inclined to unlock as much as possible as soon as possible. Obviously things that group people together in huge numbers like sports and concerts and festivals will have to be a thing of the past until this is completely resolved, but I am curious how well people do when they social distance by choice instead of by mandate, which most likely will. I will say however that if there is enough data driven promise for a vaccine in January, that could change public willingness to hold out until then. Though difficult, that could be a timeline worth looking into. "Indefinitely" is definitely a no-go though. Not with so many people's lives and careers on the line. Not with a 1% fatality rate.

If I recall correctly, Sweden's numbers are the same as everyone else's despite having no lock down. It begs to question whether or not this entire lock down scenario is that effective at slowing the spread, or people are more resilient to it than thought. (not to mention, nurses clearly got time to pump out tic-tok videos all day) At the end of the day though, when people are having food shortages and lack of supplies. I don't think it is a good idea to maintain a lock down. The government gets its funding from the economy/workers. There is a limit to how much money they can spend on bailing people out before it dries up. Unless of course, something authoritarian happens.
 

Vendrah

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I have been prefering others to do the talking lately like [MENTION=4347]Virtual ghost[/MENTION] because sometimes I read stuff and say "OMG...=(".
 

Vendrah

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I had made this post about two weeks ago in one of the INs forums. I didnt posted here because it would be redundant to a lot of stuff that [MENTION=4347]Virtual ghost[/MENTION] said, but it seems that it is still worth to reinforce:


I have an Portuguese video explaining how the Corona is handled into a more rational form.. And another one explaining how the future and measures for 1-2 years (in time for vaccine or at least decent treatment). But it has no subtitles or anything like that so I will do a short resume.
As the guy mentioned in the video, there is a transmission rate (calculated with 7-13 days of delay). Through the lockdown, it is expected to have the transmission below one (in another typology forum, it seems that Germany had arrived at that, there should be other few countries), the virus population (Im talking about the virus itself) starts to rapidly decrease. Since there is a delay, when the deaths achieve a somewhat good re-transmission rate, the case is under control, the infected population gets by to be a minority, and, with several measures, the economy re-opens. When that happens, the cases are kept monitored (and must wisely), and, if the transmission rate gets significantly higher again, the economy shuts down. With some estimates, it has been said that a 2-month window of open with 1-2 months of quarantine (depending on the quarantine and if it is a decent one), combined, can give a good relief to the [inefficient] economy while minimizing the death rate. However, the quarantine that I mentioned before must be a real and tough, not one with people protesting and going out there for the tiniest reasons. The higher the number of people leaving their homes, doing dumb protests, and etc... the higher the transmission rate gets. The better people collaborate, lower the transmission rate. Higher testing means higher control, more accuracy that helps driving proper action. And the sooner the government acts and tests, the sooner people will go out of quarantine, because sooner will be the drop of transmission rate (and the transmission rate will start dropping from lower values). If people start "resisting", not only there will be death, but also when they finally gets the quarantine when things starts to be unfeasible (which happens due to a combo due to health system being full, or, rather, public health system going full and more than half of the population with the virus, people getting sick), this new quarantine will be longer and it can gets stupid longer. The first quarantine relates a lot to speed reaction (and in the US, it seems quite slow); An early reaction means, again, dealing with a transmission rate that it is already low, that will get down faster, and with a very low number of cases; With that, combined with lots of tests, proper control is achieved and quarantine can be quick. In the opposite instance, a very late reaction is dealing with a transmission rate that will be quite high, with already a good number of people already infected, means that for the transmission rate and number of cases to drop it will take a longer time. So, people will be forced into quarantine for months in that scenario, until stability is reached. Even some brazillian economists are already (and US should have some of these probably) agreeing with quarantine. The economy might not support a health collapse, combining with lots of people dying. More deaths equal less costumers, and some areas that re-opens will still have lower sales while keeping their costs, which will turn bad for business in long terms, specially when they have to face either a long quarantine or a deep crisis of deaths and lack of tombs that can gets itself two years. Without counting that, even if there is a vaccine or treatment, that could cost a high amount of money and it can become unfeasible to apply both (with some people literally needing both) for more than a half of the population.

Places where cases are lower should be re-opened sooner than the ones in a worse condition, however, just doing quarantine in some states is relatively inefficient, even cities. In this "globalized" world, in 21th century, one city can hardly survive on its own without trade (unless given time to get ready for that); If a city can survive without any intercity transit - cars, trucks coming for food, petrol, etc.., same for airplanes - then the city can reopens but thats incredible unrealistic in these days. A city that is surrounded and dependable of an uncontrolled scenario will become uncontrolled in a matter of time. Trucks, freights, etc... will come from people from uncontrolled states and carrying cargo from uncontrolled states, and these will, in imminent term, carry the virus with them. Just for an idea, even native people from Amazon (indians), think small traditional villages, with relatively low contact with city folks, already started catching Corona Virus (I suspect it could be Fake News, but it wont be in a matter of few weeks).

The natural "immunity" thing is already been putting at the steak, since things can get serious. Some parents of COVID (sorry for not mentioning sources, I really should but Im already been to long and giving too much time writing this) gets a immunity of 1-2 years. Another problem is the mutation problem, it seems (I think there are studys on that but they are still on early stage) that the virus is already mutating, and the virus genetic is already changing, in a way that the new versions can simply need a new immunity. It is known that some people can get back the virus again, still. In short terms, perhaps only 0.5-1.5% of the population dies (that is 3-6 million for US). However, these numbers are a calculation considering that a person who catch it one time wont catch it again AND that health care system is doing fine. But with the play of mutation, and considering that people can get it again, that rate in long term can increases to 2-3% (2 times in 2 years). With full hospitals, which for some developed countries (such as nordic ones) is not a problem, that rate can get to 3-4%. These deaths must be combined with deaths that already occurs naturally, and you will just find lots of people dying.

Liking or not, the economy and monster market will have to deal with the virus, in one way or another. If it is the optimal way as advised by some experts (at least in Brazil, you should have your own virologists and economists stating something similar), or if it will be handled in an unintelligent way to "save the economy", or, rather, save the short terms profit and save the old inefficient economy system (as I provided why it is inefficient pages ago). Some countries are already giving up neoliberalism, even here it is coming down. It might be a monster that gets back in some years in the future, but any nation that buys it now and let the market handle it is doomed and most countries knows that. If debt disables the state, then in long terms everything will be, eventually, disabled. Unless, of course, if the rich people does charity, and guess what, they havent been doing and they wont likely do it. Then a state will need to arise and confront this, measures will be needed to be taken. The more stubborn the country with recognizing and adapting to the storm, worse will be for the boat.

Just as a reinforcement, this also deals with something that is under-rated but stupidly important thing called "trust". DO you think people are going to trust in each other, government and institutions with generalized death? No, they wont. That might have a deep impact, it can raises corruption in long term, and with that, well, many things will drop. Either a corrupted state or a corrupted market or both fails most of time.

This is the shortest I could explain. I am still being somewhat superficial, and I dont have enough knowledge to be super deep. We are talking about a subject that could take a whole book to be deeply handed.
 

Virtual ghost

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If I recall correctly, Sweden's numbers are the same as everyone else's despite having no lock down. It begs to question whether or not this entire lock down scenario is that effective at slowing the spread, or people are more resilient to it than thought. (not to mention, nurses clearly got time to pump out tic-tok videos all day) At the end of the day though, when people are having food shortages and lack of supplies. I don't think it is a good idea to maintain a lock down. The government gets its funding from the economy/workers. There is a limit to how much money they can spend on bailing people out before it dries up. Unless of course, something authoritarian happens.




False, out of all countries that are closely neighboring them they have clearly the highest number of cases (feel free to check). They decided to do it like this because supposedly life there is fairly lockdown-ish by default (what it is due to months of night every year and polar temperatures). Plus they didn't decide "today we are doing lockdown" but instead they have faded in plenty of lockdown elements over time. However the country has pretty steady inflow of new cases while countries with real lockdown are now exiting this entire mess. Because they are over 60% down in active cases since their local peak, something about what Sweden can probably only dream at this point. Plus their healthcare and social welfare system is quite decent and one of the best on the world, so they can perhaps play around a little even if that probably isn't that smart (while all those policies are "authoritarian" by general American standards and thus undesirable). In the case that US has universal healthcare that is stable and that it doesn't have clearly the biggest number of active cases I would say "Give it a shot but be careful". But this way I am not sure what you will really achieve (especially since many are broke for years). While million active cases and another million or two in undetected cases could easily be the last point when this can be contained even with the lockdown.
 

Pionart

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Count Dracula,
For unleashing your fury on this earth,
I condemn you to 50 lashes,
Done twice daily,
For each year
As per the lives you have taken.

May the Lord have Mercy on your soul.
 

Red Memories

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FemMecha

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"The Los Alamos team, assisted by scientists at Duke University and the University of Sheffield in England, identified 14 mutations. Those mutations occurred among the nearly 30,000 base pairs of RNA that other scientists say make up the coronavirus’s genome. The report authors focused on a mutation called D614G, which is responsible for the change in the virus’ spikes."

Scientists have identified a new strain of the coronavirus that appears to be more contagious

Edit: It also says that the new mutation is not more deadly, but it is more contagious. I don't subscribe to the newspaper, so I was only able to view it once before the popups obliterated it for me.
 

Red Memories

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for those who wanna avoid the paywall, see under the spoiler. It is the article [MENTION=14857]Powehi[/MENTION] linked.

 
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