Coronavirus

[anticlimatic]

I am not quite sure if we can say "it worked" for the country with highest number Corona deaths of the world and the 10th or 11th out of 140 countries in deaths per million.
It is true that some countries are hiding data like Brazil (we could suspect even China in that department), but, even considering that, we cant really say that it really worked for the US. Reality doesn't really agree with that statement.

If the hospitals were not overwhelmed, than your country might consider the hospital accessibility (you know, if all hospitals are private & paid and poor or low-mid class cant get to the hospitals, than they might not be overwhelmed indeed) or even their own efficiency... Or if people are refusing to go to hospital and dying at home while they could go to hospital. Stuff like that.

The U.S. Has Flattened the Curve. Next Up Is Squashing It | Time

Other than New York, the US is faring about as well as the rest of the world. If the goal was to flatten the curve to avoid overloading the healthcare system, which is what Birx said it was when she laid it out, then the lockdown succeeded in its goal. If we are moving the goalposts now (which we can see the media attempt in real time) to say it is intended to eradicate the virus, or wait until it disappears completely, that will never happen and the lockdown will simply plunge the nation into irreversible poverty and death in the meantime. Politicians wouldn't mind at all, as they could keep their newly found power, so this is why it's good that we have such a large demographic in the country that will not let that happen.

 

[Vendrah]

The U.S. Has Flattened the Curve. Next Up Is Squashing It | Time

Other than New York, the US is faring about as well as the rest of the world. If the goal was to flatten the curve to avoid overloading the healthcare system, which is what Birx said it was when she laid it out, then the lockdown succeeded in its goal. If we are moving the goalposts now (which we can see the media attempt in real time) to say it is intended to eradicate the virus, or wait until it disappears completely, that will never happen and the lockdown will simply plunge the nation into irreversible poverty and death in the meantime. Politicians wouldn't mind at all, as they could keep their newly found power, so this is why it's good that we have such a large demographic in the country that will not let that happen.

I see a lot of red (increasing) in the map you linked to.
Questions are: Which places the infection rates are below one? Which is the death daily numbers?
At least from a little bit less than two weeks ago, USA was far from being ready.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Croatia is 174 times smaller than the US. We have 50 states. That means on average, each of our 50 states is 3.48 times larger than your entire country. New York alone is twice the size of Croatia, with about 4 additional million people. Each of our states is divided into regions as well, each with several counties. Governing systems might not be that different on the state level, but the size and scope of the US is well beyond what you can conceive. Imagine if all of Europe were Croatia, populated completely with Croatians with completely open borders between what used to be countries. Then imagine that the entire economy of Europe was about twice the size it currently is, and everything that would depend on that. Then imagine that many of the people you know only live in Croatia in the summer, and have another house in Norway for the winter. Now you have a more accurate model of what you are dealing with when offering prescriptions to the United States.

The US is listening to experts, same as anyone else. We are just radically different from other countries, with states that are radically different from one another. Nobody is contesting your point that lock-downs are effective at flattening the curve. The entire motive behind ours was to avoid overwhelming the healthcare system. It worked. Even New York was not overwhelmed. The question now is, where do we go from here? Because waiting around for the virus to completely die out when over a million people in this country currently have it will not be happening. There will need to be a lot of stopping and starting, adaptation, and new ways of doing things- which is ultimately what I think we will see.

Yeah, I have never been fond of people saying america is "one giant country." Each state can be as diverse and different as any other country. We are a collection of smaller younger countries. It's what the EU wanted to do with Europe, and failed. I think part of America's success was the states grew up together like one giant family, and we are not forcing them to get along like they try to do in Europe, where each of the nations have been there for way way longer than USA. I had a good friend from Slovenia, and fucking Ohio is 5 times it's size. That blew my fucking mind, since it feels so fucking small. The state of California, as shitty as it is, has a higher GPD than fucking India and UK. Just to put that in perspective. Each state can make its own rules, and do its own things. Even defy the federal government (which most people don't realize), on a whim. It just depends on whether or not the Fed gives a fuck. For example, legalizing weed. IT is still illegal on a federal level, they just choose not to enforce it. I am also way more for state power, than federal power. The Federal government should only be concerned with national security imo.


I have personally lived in 4 different states for an extended period of time. I have experienced the state government functioning differently, by state. In things like priority of concern. For example, Idaho is notorious for DUI's, and their highway speeds are around 70 mph. You don't see speed traps in Idaho very often. It is because few people live there, and it isn't worth the resources. So you have a lot of speeding, and DUI. Instead, they invest their funding in preventing illegal poaching, drug trafficking, and national park protection. Where as in Ohio, they have so many speed traps and reduce the speed limits to a snail pace. They are just looking for reasons to pick on people here, for no good reason. Then the traffic cameras... boy those fucking things are a scam I'll tell you what. It is clear that the government only cares about nickle and dimeing people here. Though despite its flaws, and it being a shit hole. Ohio is still one of the most affordable places to live on the east side.

But as I explained you before the size of the country doesn't really matter if you do a real lockdown. Which is preventing travel between the counties/regions. Your country can stretch for 50 000 miles and it doesn't make that much in a difference compared with much smaller country. The whole point is that the virus can't spread across the country and it is easier to deal with in tiny units, especially since to many of them virus can't even get since it locked out. The talk was that NY as a whole should go into quarantine if I remember correctly but that was considered inhumane by politics and now neighboring New Jeresy and some other places are heavily in the problems. For me you haven't even done something that can be really called lockdown so saying that something else in needed is kinda wrong. Yes the curve is generally flattened much more than it was but that doesn't mean anything if you undo mass of measures that prevented complete out of control pandemic (what is on the table now and no real expert would recommend that). When you flatten the curve you must hold it so that sick people either get healed by their own body through a few weeks or that they die (the antibody story). Human body is human body so all these arguments about the size of the country, culture and similar are basically irrelevant if your are serious about ending this pandemic. Plus the Eurasian landmass on which I live has about 6 times bigger surface area than US, 16 times more people that are evidently more culturally diverse, while the GDP is evidently above US multiple times. Therefore don't try to sell me the "unable to comprehend" story.



It doesn't matter if you have two or more houses, you are in your main house and you wait until the curves falls enough that at the economy can be slowly faded in (everything else isn't a lockdown) . What altogether is about a month if the lockdown was for real. Since in that period people either get well or die and then you start to fade in the economy with care for details. Countries that really pushed through this are now existing the pandemic and those that wanted to be free and open minded with lockdown are generally stuck. Since the new cases make sure that the curve of active cases doesn't start to fall and the pressure on the government budget is getting into red (such countries exist in Europe as well). What is altogether basically running in place, what can't hold since you will eventually get tired/broke because there is no real cure nearby.




But as you wish. I tried to be as clear as possible.

 

[anticlimatic]

But as I explained you before the size of the country doesn't really matter if you do a real lockdown. Which is preventing travel between the counties/regions. Your country can stretch for 50 000 miles and it doesn't make that much in a difference compared with much smaller country. The whole point is that the virus can't spread across the country and it is easier to deal with in tiny units, especially since to many of them virus can't even get since it locked out. The talk was that NY as a whole should go into quarantine if I remember correctly but that was considered inhumane by politics and now neighboring New Jeresy and some other places are heavily in the problems. For me you haven't even done something that can be really called lockdown so saying that something else in needed is kinda wrong. Yes the curve is generally flattened much more than it was but that doesn't mean anything if you undo mass of measures that prevented complete out of control pandemic (what is on the table now and no real expert would recommend that). When you flatten the curve you must hold it so that sick people either get healed by their own body through a few weeks or that they die (the antibody story). Human body is human body so all these arguments about the size of the country, culture and similar are basically irrelevant if your are serious about ending this pandemic. Plus the Eurasian landmass on which I live has about 6 times bigger surface area than US, 16 times more people that are evidently more culturally diverse, while the GDP is evidently above US multiple times. Therefore don't try to sell me the "unable to comprehend" story. It doesn't matter if you have two or more houses, you are in your main house and you wait until the curves falls enough that at the economy can be slowly faded in (everything else isn't a lockdown) . What altogether is about a month if the lockdown was for real. Since in that period people either get well or die and then you start to fade in the economy with care for details. Countries that really pushed through this are now existing the pandemic and those that wanted to be free and open minded with lockdown are generally stuck. Since the new cases make sure that the curve of active cases doesn't start to fall and the pressure on the government budget is getting into red (such countries exist in Europe as well). What is altogether basically running in place, what can't hold since you will eventually get tired/broke because there is no real cure nearby. But as you wish. I tried to be as clear as possible.

I said Europe. Not Eurasia. I wasn't trying to compare continents, but rather give you a frame of reference for the size of the US that you could relate to. The larger the area, the higher the number of infected, the longer it would take to snuff it out- and the amount of time social distancing would take to make that happen has always exceeded what an economy could handle without having a worse impact than the disease. You were crystal clear, easily understood. You are just falling into the same type of magical thinking trap that inclined people to believe that hydrocychloroquine was the answer. There is no answer. Lockdowns were always intended to buy time. Food supply chains are already breaking down. Time is something we are quickly running out of.

 

[Red Memories]

I've seen memes from the left and the right and I've found some of both either stupid or funny. But again I feel like the commentary on "memes" is something happening on both political parties, both sides will shut down shit with memes and namecalling. I think both sides are "nuanced" and "bias". I think it is a joke to act like neither one of you even HAVE a bias because you do. I think the memes should go in the political random thought thread nevertheless if you want to politically meme.

personally, I found the right meme funny actually because it is ironic. Ironic humor just fits. XD

 

[Virtual ghost]

I said Europe. Not Eurasia. I wasn't trying to compare continents, but rather give you a frame of reference for the size of the US that you could relate to. The larger the area, the higher the number of infected, the longer it would take to snuff it out- and the amount of time social distancing would take to make that happen has always exceeded what an economy could handle without having a worse impact than the disease. You were crystal clear, easily understood. You are just falling into the same type of magical thinking trap that inclined people to believe that hydrocychloroquine was the answer. There is no answer. Lockdowns were always intended to buy time. Food supply chains are already breaking down. Time is something we are quickly running out of.

You said

Governing systems might not be that different on the state level, but the size and scope of the US is well beyond what you can conceive.

And then I played the Eurasia card to completely remove this argument. Yes we still have loose borders or no borders but this huge landmass is fairly interconnected at this point (and everything on it is bigger than US: population, diversity, GDP .... etc.). I am reading books about space since I was 5, trust me I can comprehend this.

There is no answer.

Plus this is self-defeating.



I will not give you links but you are free to explore on your own pace.
Countries that introduced HC lockdowns are way down in active cases, since the human organism can clean this up if it has healthcare support and if it isn't too old or generally sick. What now allows those countries to slowly phase in the economy. Even the Spain that messed up the initial response and is global number 2 in cases is going down in active cases and it already lost 30% from the peak, while one Austria came from 9000 active case at the peak to 1700 cases in a single month (towards politico daily update). Also the economy that is on the edge is exactly like that because you didn't do a real lockdown. You should have frozen everything besides food and basic security related stuff and those that are broke should get money for food from the government as long as it takes. While the rents and bills should have been placed on hold country wide until this passes. The point of a lockdown is that everyone calms in one safe place and there waits until this clears out. What isn't that long if you do it right. The process is similar for 1000 people and 1 000 000 people since everyone is isolated, while with the million the only problem is that you can get some spills in big cities through supermarket shopping if you are not careful. But besides that the number of people involved doesn't matter that much.



However your government/system seem to be too stupid for this, I will give you that. The lockdown should have been one big lunch brake where just about EVERYTHING stops in order to deal with basic biology. If basically everything stops for real there aren't many economic losses if any, since the expenses are down as well (because the economy is frozen) What is different from collapse since this is pulling a brake and stopping, what is desirable to going off the cliff because you were in a hurry to go to work. The real time will go on but the "economic time" will basically stop. This is like going from Q1 to Q3 directly. Since Q2 was lunch brake and it doesn't count.

 

[anticlimatic]

You said And then I played the Eurasia card to completely remove this argument. Yes we still have loose borders or no borders but this huge landmass is fairly interconnected at this point (and everything on it is bigger than US: population, diversity, GDP .... etc.). I am reading books about space since I was 5, trust me I can comprehend this. Plus this is self-defeating. I will not give you links but you are free to explore on your own pace. Countries that introduced HC lockdowns are way down in active cases, since the human organism can clean this up if it has healthcare support and if it isn't too old or generally sick. What now allows those countries to slowly phase in the economy. Even the Spain that messed up the initial response and is global number 2 in cases is going down in active cases and it already lost 30% from the peak, while one Austria came from 9000 active case at the peak to 1700 cases in a single month (towards politico daily update). Also the economy that is on the edge is exactly like that because you didn't do a real lockdown. You should have frozen everything besides food and basic security related stuff and those that are broke should get money for food from the government as long as it takes. While the rents and bills should have been placed on hold country wide until this passes. The point of a lockdown is that everyone calms in one safe place and there waits until this clears out. What isn't that long if you do it right. The process is similar for 1000 people and 1 000 000 people since everyone is isolated, while with the million the only problem is that you can get some spills in big cities through supermarket shopping if you are not careful. But besides that the number of people involved doesn't matter that much. However your government/system seem to be too stupid for this, I will give you that. The lockdown should have been one big lunch brake where just about EVERYTHING stops in order to deal with basic biology. If basically everything stops for real there aren't many economic losses if any, since the expenses are down as well (because the economy is frozen) What is different from collapse since this is pulling a brake and stopping, what is desirable to going off the cliff because you were in a hurry to go to work. The real time will go on but the "economic time" will basically stop. This is like going from Q1 to Q3 directly. Since Q2 was lunch brake and it doesn't count.

I'm sorry my friend, but you are living in and peddling a fairy tale built on could haves should haves and if onlys. My point on the size was that you can not compare Croatia to the USA. Things are not going to go the way you think they should. They never have, and they never will. We have to work with the reality in which we live, not the fantasy in which we wish we lived.

Yes, like I said, lockdowns reduce cases and propagation rate while they are in place. They also choke the economy. Like I have described before, it is like dealing with a fire on a space ship by turning off the oxygen. Since there is no way to kill off the virus before killing off the crew, there is no way it will be effective in the real world in which we all live.

Grocery stores do not have the capacity to take on all the additional product that normally goes to restaurants. Farmers are having to dump most of their crops due to the drop in demand from those restaurants. The government, despite the will to get money to the people, cannot get through its own overloaded bureaucracy to do so. People that have problems with filing for unemployment have no recourse, as calling in for help just presents them with an audio recording saying they are too busy, then hanging up on them. Things are far more connected than you realize. You can't just separate "essential" from unessential in anything but the very short term.

Eventually you will have to reopen the economy in your country. And unless the virus is completely gone from every corner of the world that might come and visit you, your cases are going to climb again. Buying time for the healthcare system, for herd immunity or a vaccine. That is the best we can do, I'm sorry to say.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I'm sorry my friend, but you are living in and peddling a fairy tale built on could haves should haves and if onlys. My point on the size was that you can not compare Croatia to the USA. Things are not going to go the way you think they should. They never have, and they never will. We have to work with the reality in which we live, not the fantasy in which we wish we lived.

Yes, like I said, lockdowns reduce cases and propagation rate while they are in place. They also choke the economy. Like I have described before, it is like dealing with a fire on a space ship by turning off the oxygen. Since there is no way to kill off the virus before killing off the crew, there is no way it will be effective in the real world in which we all live.

Eventually you will have to reopen the economy in your country. And unless the virus is completely gone from every corner of the world that might come and visit you, your cases are going to climb again. Buying time for the healthcare system for herd immunity or a vaccine. That is the best we can do, I'm sorry to say.

My economy is being slowly reopened as we speak and since it is Monday we entered the new phase of openings. Especially since today we dropped bellow 500 active cases country wide. However we completely killed off the economy for a month and a half, we didn't just choke it. My point is exactly that you have to fundamentally change the approach to truly fix this. The point is exactly that as long as you are trying to save the economy you can't really get rid of the virus. Therefore you have to put economy to sleep and wait. The sooner you start the more you will have resources to go through the hibernation. So once the active cases really drop you can carefully start opening stuff again if the borders are closed.



It worked for me so it will work for you, the only real practical question is your leadership and governing competency. Since you have perhaps indeed closed the window for going through this as gently as possible.

 

[anticlimatic]

My economy is being slowly reopened as we speak and since it is Monday we entered the new phase of openings. Especially since today we dropped bellow 500 active cases country wide. However we completely killed off the economy for a month and a half, we didn't just choke it. My point is exactly that you have to fundamentally change the approach to truly fix this. The point is exactly that as long as you are trying to save the economy you can't really get rid of the virus. Therefore you have to put economy to sleep and wait. The sooner you start the more you will have resources to go through the hibernation. So once the active cases really drop you can carefully start opening stuff again if the borders are closed. It worked for me so it will work for you, the only real practical question is your leadership and governing competency. Since you have perhaps indeed closed the window for going through this as gently as possible.

I disagree. We don't know the right approach to this thing, since we do not have the data yet to judge. Based on the thin bit of data we do have (like the fatality rate) I'd rather see the economy in the US respected by the authorities more than they've done in your country. This is why I am mostly happy with how things are going over here.

Hopefully as you reopen your economy you can keep the virus out, but time will tell and I wouldn't bet on it so long as it's still out there in the world and we are several months to a possible vaccine. Still, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you and your people. For all of us.

 

[Red Memories]

I'm sorry my friend, but you are living in and peddling a fairy tale built on could haves should haves and if onlys. My point on the size was that you can not compare Croatia to the USA. Things are not going to go the way you think they should. They never have, and they never will. We have to work with the reality in which we live, not the fantasy in which we wish we lived.

Yes, like I said, lockdowns reduce cases and propagation rate while they are in place. They also choke the economy. Like I have described before, it is like dealing with a fire on a space ship by turning off the oxygen. Since there is no way to kill off the virus before killing off the crew, there is no way it will be effective in the real world in which we all live.

Grocery stores do not have the capacity to take on all the additional product that normally goes to restaurants. Farmers are having to dump most of their crops due to the drop in demand from those restaurants. The government, despite the will to get money to the people, cannot get through its own overloaded bureaucracy to do so. People that have problems with filing for unemployment have no recourse, as calling in for help just presents them with an audio recording saying they are too busy, then hanging up on them. Things are far more connected than you realize. You can't just separate "essential" from unessential in anything but the very short term.

Eventually you will have to reopen the economy in your country. And unless the virus is completely gone from every corner of the world that might come and visit you, your cases are going to climb again. Buying time for the healthcare system, for herd immunity or a vaccine. That is the best we can do, I'm sorry to say.

I have a small question about this part that kinda frustrates me.

for instance, here in Idaho because of this, some farmers have began just giving away some of the crop so at least it helps people.

why the hell aren't we giving this food to the vulnerable people or homeless? It seriously bugs me if you have that much excess and you are gonna write it off either way, why not HELP people with it????

 

[Virtual ghost]

I disagree. We don't know the right approach to this thing, since we do not have the data yet to judge. Based on the thin bit of data we do have (like the fatality rate) I'd rather see the economy in the US respected by the authorities more than they've done in your country. This is why I am mostly happy with how things are going over here.

Hopefully as you reopen your economy you can keep the virus out, but time will tell and I wouldn't bet on it so long as it's still out there in the world and we are several months to a possible vaccine. Still, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you and your people. For all of us.

If the borders remain closed or open only towards neighboring and/or countries that are doing equally well this system should generally hold if the social distancing remains on the level (which it will). However if you still have plenty of active cases around then you are probably just going to infect more people with opening. For me it is simple as that and the time will quickly tell. Good luck.





Btw I watched the news, they are starting to pack some improvised emergency hospitals in "sport arenas". Since it looks we aren't going to need them for now. (5 new cases + 1 death for today)

 

[ceecee]

I have a small question about this part that kinda frustrates me.

for instance, here in Idaho because of this, some farmers have began just giving away some of the crop so at least it helps people.

why the hell aren't we giving this food to the vulnerable people or homeless? It seriously bugs me if you have that much excess and you are gonna write it off either way, why not HELP people with it????

Yeah all the food banks, emergency food pantries and every social service that gets food to people would use all of this. But the farmers won't get any kind of assistance or subsidies if they get rid of it by another means. This has been going on forever so its not specific to the COVID crisis, it's just worse now. Milk is another example. It's not like schools aren't feeding anyone because the students aren't in class. If anything, schools are feeding more people than before.

How School Districts Are Able to Feed More People Than Food Banks - Eater

If the federal govt. is going to subsidize, why not subsidize farms and dairies to continue and instead of restaurants and hotels, send the stuff to schools, food banks and emergency food services. But that's a sensible and humane idea, which doesn't fly with the GOP and most Dems in congress.

 

[Red Memories]

Yeah all the food banks, emergency food pantries and every social service that gets food to people would use all of this. But the farmers won't get any kind of assistance or subsidies if they get rid of it by another means. This has been going on forever so its not specific to the COVID crisis, it's just worse now. Milk is another example. It's not like schools aren't feeding anyone because the students aren't in class. If anything, schools are feeding more people than before.

How School Districts Are Able to Feed More People Than Food Banks - Eater

If the federal govt. is going to subsidize, why not subsidize farms and dairies to continue and instead of restaurants and hotels, send the stuff to schools, food banks and emergency food services. But that's a sensible and humane idea, which doesn't fly with the GOP and most Dems in congress.

That was my exact thought though - why not subsidize them, maybe even extra, for being good Samaritans here? motivate them!

 

[ceecee]

If the borders remain closed or open only towards neighboring and/or countries that are doing equally well this system should generally hold if the social distancing remains on the level (which it will). However if you still have plenty of active cases around then you are probably just going to infect more people with opening. For me it is simple as that and the time will quickly tell. Good luck.





Btw I watched the news, they are starting to pack some improvised emergency hospitals in "sport arenas". Since it looks we aren't going to need them for now. (5 new cases + 1 death for today)

CDC privately projects significant May surge in coronavirus cases and deaths - Axios

June 1 the U.S. will see a surge in daily new coronavirus cases from about 25,000 to 200,000, and an increase in daily deaths from about 1,750 to 3,000,

Currently, the U.S. is experiencing about 1,750 deaths and about 25,000 confirmed new cases per day, with little decline throughout the month of April despite mitigation practices. But yeah let's just open it up.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I just noticed the edit.

Grocery stores do not have the capacity to take on all the additional product that normally goes to restaurants. Farmers are having to dump most of their crops due to the drop in demand from those restaurants. The government, despite the will to get money to the people, cannot get through its own overloaded bureaucracy to do so. People that have problems with filing for unemployment have no recourse, as calling in for help just presents them with an audio recording saying they are too busy, then hanging up on them. Things are far more connected than you realize. You can't just separate "essential" from unessential in anything but the very short term.

The bolded part is correct and that is EXACTLY why I am advocating "shock-therapy". However US shouldn't open because it didn't do the lockdown properly. Therefore with opening the problem is likely to become even bigger. On the long run the smallest shock for the economy is actually to just punch through this with HC lockdown. While everything else basically just creates agony and new cases. However in US economy seems to be too sacred even for temporary sacrifice. In a way this is nice devilish trap, you have to squash it in order to save it.




While the governing problem is something I admit that it is real problem from the start. The number of cases in US shows that pretty clearly. However for me opening in current situation would just be the continuation of bad governing. But if US really wants to open: be my guest. I will not be directly influenced. My posts are basically "friendly advice".

 

[Virtual ghost]

CDC privately projects significant May surge in coronavirus cases and deaths - Axios


Currently, the U.S. is experiencing about 1,750 deaths and about 25,000 confirmed new cases per day, with little decline throughout the month of April despite mitigation practices. But yeah let's just open it up.

As I made my case, what the US is doing just doesn't seem enough. The measures are too mild and way too much money doesn't even goes towards the people. In a way this is crime against humanity if we are going to call spade a spade. The fuel and time is spent and you are still in the woods, because someone had "interest" or whatever.


Originally it took the virus from 10 cases to 100 000 cases weeks, so from 1 000 000 cases as the base the further growth should be *shocking*. (even if you involve masks, gloves etc.)

 

[Vendrah]

I have a small question about this part that kinda frustrates me.

for instance, here in Idaho because of this, some farmers have began just giving away some of the crop so at least it helps people.

why the hell aren't we giving this food to the vulnerable people or homeless? It seriously bugs me if you have that much excess and you are gonna write it off either way, why not HELP people with it????

Well, oversimplifying but not being surrealistic, two things:
1) It serves as a drama and as a persuasion to re-open economy sooner: "Look, we are killing cows and burning farms, it's all quarantine's fault", "We are losing so much these days, we are bankrupting" [their personal bank account today:1.2 million, it was 1.4 million last month; Homeless bank account today:0. It was 0 last month]
2) Because they only care about the profits, and their "mission" to feed the world is just a big flat lie, the big mission as usual is to have the big profit and fuck the rest (it seems they are quite likely the brazilian farmers which are basically the same, except that the brazilian farmers have been burning Amazon for the same reason). Feeding homeless and needy people don't give profits. Thus, there is no logical reason to feed the homeless. That's their logic, of course they are not stupidly enough to put it in words, but that's exactly their actions.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Worldometer


Here is where are are now.

 

[ceecee]

Carnival to Resume Some Cruise Sailings in August After Monthslong Pause - WSJ

Carnival Cruise Line said it plans to resume sailings on eight ships departing from Florida and Texas beginning Aug. 1

These things are a petri dish of e-coli and norovirus in the best times. That crimes against humanity thing is appropriate - seize all these ships, take them to the middle of the Atlantic and sink them.

 

[ceecee]

That was my exact thought though - why not subsidize them, maybe even extra, for being good Samaritans here? motivate them!

USDA to buy $470M of produce, dairy and seafood - POLITICO