Coronavirus

[Jaguar]

Silly question, why can't the stock market just be frozen for a few weeks ? Because due to pandemics everyone will do bad decisions in a panic, what will only make things even worse. Therefore since basically everything is closing wouldn't it be logical to freeze all the numbers and continue when the virus clears.

Treasury Secretary Mnuchin says financial markets will stay open, but could shorten trading hours

 

[Tomb1]

In COVID-19's still contagious incubation period individuals present as asymptomatic (carriers look, talk and act in a healthy and normal manner):

"In addition, the asymptomatic incubation period for individuals infected with 2019-nCov has been reported to be ~1–14 days, and after 24 days individuals were reported, and it was confirmed that those without symptoms can spread the virus..."

Transmission routes of 2019-nCoV and controls in dental practice | International Journal of Oral Science

Such findings had been well-researched, well-known and well-documented by the time that Trump was drastically downplaying COVID-19 on both Twitter and national television.

This is not a case where Trump can say he was just acting on the best information at the time. The necessity for and justification of a mandatory shutdown and european travel ban (that we're seeing now) was well-established even before the first American casualty...Trump's delay in acting constituted a fatal error in judgment (the virus now inhabits all fifty states, casualties mounted up in Washington State and a town in New York lives under quarantine)

 

[Stigmata]

Pretty sure combating a global pandemic, and zero market crash, unprecedented levels of layoffs, is a pretty good reason to give out money.

I don't disagree with you one bit -- it'll help people offset the recent supply expenses and/or adjustments they've had to made to accommodate their recent circumstances. I guess it's just funny how much a partisanship filter is tied into how the narrative is construed, despite the content of what is actually being proposed.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Because its not the governments money? Imagine if your bank told you, you couldn't withdraw your money. Many boomers have their life savings in it, and they shouldn't be freaking out and selling to begin with.

I fail to see the exact parallel how this is linked with stock market ?


But to put my cards on the table: my government is currently starting the process to completely scrap our current currency in order to introduce another in the next few years. If I am not mistaken it has the power to reduce how much money you can pull out of bank in a day in order to prevent bank runs. Plus if the bank fails on the government's watch the government has to give you your savings back, as long as it isn't over a million or something big like that. Also if you owe money the government introduced the measure on how much money you can pay off monthly so that even if you become person overly in debt for some reason that you have a part of paycheck for a minimum of living. It has the right to nationalize whatever it wants if it really really wants to do that. Etc Etc.



Therefore I fail to see the controversy behind the idea. People need to clear their head since this isn't really the time for trading, especially since real economy is closing for the most part.

 

[ceecee]

I don't disagree with you one bit -- it'll help people offset the recent supply expenses and/or adjustments they've had to made to accommodate their recent circumstances. I guess it's just funny how much a partisanship filter is tied into how the narrative is construed, despite the content of what is actually being proposed.

I said $2000 but I have a feeling it will end up being KamalaAid of $500.

Stimulating the economy is in no way my main concern. My concern is for people that need to buy food and fucking toilet paper and pay their rent and mortgage. That's it. I'm not a fan of UBI in a general way, it would be better to talk about combining it with FJG when this is over. Put the fucking money in the hands of people and fuck the markets right now - they can't even make it 5 minutes without help.

 

[Tellenbach]

Can't we just double the number of ventilators instantly by manufacturing some sort of branched connector so that two masks can be connected to 1 ventilator?

 

[Virtual ghost]

I said $2000 but I have a feeling it will end up being KamalaAid of $500.

Stimulating the economy is in no way my main concern. My concern is for people that need to buy food and fucking toilet paper and pay their rent and mortgage. That's it. I'm not a fan of UBI in a general way, it would be better to talk about combining it with FJG when this is over. Put the fucking money in the hands of people and fuck the markets right now - they can't even make it 5 minutes without help.

So you aren't "afraid" that Trump is introducing left wing policies with which he will outmaneuver the dems. again ?


The guy is simply talented tactician in this kinds of things.

 

[ceecee]

So you aren't "afraid" that Trump is introducing left wing policies with which he will outmaneuver the dems. again ?


The guy is simply talented tactician in this kinds of things.

No the Dems are done anyway. I don't especially care who comes up with the idea to get money to people.

 

[Maou]

I fail to see the exact parallel how this is linked with stock market ?


But to put my cards on the table: my government is currently starting the process to completely scrap our current currency in order to introduce another in the next few years. If I am not mistaken it has the power to reduce how much money you can pull out of bank in a day in order to prevent bank runs. Plus if the bank fails on the government's watch the government has to give you your savings back, as long as it isn't over a million or something big like that. Also if you owe money the government introduced the measure on how much money you can pay off monthly so that even if you become person overly in debt for some reason that you have a part of paycheck for a minimum of living. It has the right to nationalize whatever it wants if it really really wants to do that. Etc Etc.



Therefore I fail to see the controversy behind the idea. People need to clear their head since this isn't really the time for trading, especially since real economy is closing for the most part.

Not sure, that's why I added a question mark. Just what I assumed. Also, stocks fund businesses. So the freezing may hurt certain businesses that are vital to the economy as well as livelyhoods. I think it's essential to keep as many things running as possible without running exposure risk. So things like tech might be fine. This will result in the economy having a much easier time on the rebound when this is over.

 

[Jonny]

So, there's been news going around about Trump either disbanding, cutting funding for, or drastically reducing the size of the U.S. pandemic office a few years back. There is now a counter-narrative spearheaded by Tim Morrison calling it fake news. Fox and other outlets are pushing it hard.

Here's the woman who wrote this WaPo article entitled I ran the White House pandemic office. Trump closed it.

Beth Cameron, PhD

Vice President, Global Biological Policy and Programs

Beth Cameron is NTI’s vice president for global biological policy and programs.

Cameron previously served as the senior director for global health security and biodefense on the White House National Security Council (NSC) staff, where she was instrumental in developing and launching the Global Health Security Agenda and addressed homeland and national security threats surrounding biosecurity and biosafety, biodefense, emerging infectious disease threats, biological select agents and toxins, dual‐use research, and bioterrorism.

From 2010‐2013, Cameron served as office director for Cooperative Threat Reduction (CTR) and senior advisor for the Assistant Secretary of Defense for nuclear, chemical and biological defense programs. In this role, she oversaw implementation of the geographic expansion of the Nunn‐Lugar CTR program. For her work, she was awarded the Office of the Secretary of Defense Medal for Exceptional Civilian Service.

From 2003‐2010 Cameron oversaw expansion of Department of State Global Threat Reduction programs and supported the expansion and extension of the Global Partnership Against the Spread of Weapons and Materials of Mass Destruction, a multilateral framework to improve global CBRN security.

Cameron served as an American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) fellow in the health policy office of Senator Edward M. Kennedy where she worked on the Patients’ Bill of Rights, medical privacy, and legislation to improve the quality of cancer care. From 2001‐2003, she served as a manager of policy research for the American Cancer Society.

Cameron holds a Ph.D. in Biology from the Human Genetics and Molecular Biology Program at the Johns Hopkins University and a BA in Biology from the University of Virginia. Cameron is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations.​

Here's the man, Tim Morrison, who wrote this WaPo article entitled No, the White House didn’t ‘dissolve’ its pandemic response office. I was there.

Tim Morrison

Timothy Aaron Morrison (born c. 1978) is an American Republican political adviser. He was briefly the top U.S. adviser to President Trump on Russia and Europe on the White House National Security Council, a position he took over from his predecessor Fiona Hill in August 2019, and from which he resigned on October 31, 2019.

Before that, he served as senior director for countering weapons of mass destruction -- "arms control and biodefense issues" -- on the US National Security Council, a position he assumed on July 9, 2018. Until then, he was policy director for the Republican staff on the House defense panel. Morrison entered politics as a professional staff member to Rep. Mark Kennedy, from 2000 to 2007. One day before his scheduled testimony to the impeachment inquiry against Donald Trump on October 31, 2019, Morrison was reported to be leaving his post soon as the senior director for European and Russian affairs on the National Security Council. He was to be replaced by Andrew Peek, at the time Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Iraq and Iran in the Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs.

Morrison holds a Juris Doctor from George Washington University and a BA in Political Science from the University of Minnesota.

Morrison was among the people listening in on the July 25, 2019 phone conversation between President Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky that is central to the impeachment inquiry against Donald Trump. He was a primary source of information regarding the matter to William B. Taylor, Jr., the acting US ambassador to Ukraine.

Morrison's deposition in the impeachment inquiry against Donald Trump, given behind closed doors on October 31, partially corroborated the earlier deposition by Taylor, in particular that U.S. Ambassador to the E.U. Gordon Sondland had told Andrey Yermak, an aide to Zelensky via telephone that military aid to Ukraine, and a White house meeting with Trump, were conditional on a Ukrainian public announcement of an investigation into Burisma, and the Ukraine involvement in the 2016 U.S. Presidential election. Morrison also testified that his concerns regarding the Trump–Zelensky call, which he promptly communicated to White House lawyers, were about repercussions if the transcript of the call was to be leaked, not about the legality of its content or quid pro quo. According to official transcripts of Morrison's closed door testimony, Morrison stated, "I want to be clear, I was not concerned that anything illegal was discussed," in the telephone call between Trump and Zelensky. Morrison also testified that Ukrainian officials were not aware that certain military funding had been delayed by the Trump administration until late August 2019, more than a month after the Trump-Zelensky call.

During public testimony before the U.S. House of Representatives on November 19, 2019, Morrison stated that Sondland confirmed to him that there was indeed a quid pro quo requirement for US aid to Ukraine, and again brought up the telephone conversation between Sondland and Yermak, which took place on September 1, 2019.​

 

[ceecee]

So, there's been news going around about Trump either disbanding, cutting funding for, or drastically reducing the size of the U.S. pandemic office a few years back. There is now a counter-narrative spearheaded by Tim Morrison calling it fake news. Fox and other outlets are pushing it hard.

Here's the woman who wrote this WaPo article entitled I ran the White House pandemic office. Trump closed it.

Beth Cameron, PhD

Vice President, Global Biological Policy and Programs

Beth Cameron is NTI’s vice president for global biological policy and programs.

Cameron previously served as the senior director for global health security and biodefense on the White House National Security Council (NSC) staff, where she was instrumental in developing and launching the Global Health Security Agenda and addressed homeland and national security threats surrounding biosecurity and biosafety, biodefense, emerging infectious disease threats, biological select agents and toxins, dual‐use research, and bioterrorism.

From 2010‐2013, Cameron served as office director for Cooperative Threat Reduction (CTR) and senior advisor for the Assistant Secretary of Defense for nuclear, chemical and biological defense programs. In this role, she oversaw implementation of the geographic expansion of the Nunn‐Lugar CTR program. For her work, she was awarded the Office of the Secretary of Defense Medal for Exceptional Civilian Service.

From 2003‐2010 Cameron oversaw expansion of Department of State Global Threat Reduction programs and supported the expansion and extension of the Global Partnership Against the Spread of Weapons and Materials of Mass Destruction, a multilateral framework to improve global CBRN security.

Cameron served as an American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) fellow in the health policy office of Senator Edward M. Kennedy where she worked on the Patients’ Bill of Rights, medical privacy, and legislation to improve the quality of cancer care. From 2001‐2003, she served as a manager of policy research for the American Cancer Society.

Cameron holds a Ph.D. in Biology from the Human Genetics and Molecular Biology Program at the Johns Hopkins University and a BA in Biology from the University of Virginia. Cameron is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations.​

Here's the man, Tim Morrison, who wrote this WaPo article entitled No, the White House didn’t ‘dissolve’ its pandemic response office. I was there.

Tim Morrison

Timothy Aaron Morrison (born c. 1978) is an American Republican political adviser. He was briefly the top U.S. adviser to President Trump on Russia and Europe on the White House National Security Council, a position he took over from his predecessor Fiona Hill in August 2019, and from which he resigned on October 31, 2019.

Before that, he served as senior director for countering weapons of mass destruction -- "arms control and biodefense issues" -- on the US National Security Council, a position he assumed on July 9, 2018. Until then, he was policy director for the Republican staff on the House defense panel. Morrison entered politics as a professional staff member to Rep. Mark Kennedy, from 2000 to 2007. One day before his scheduled testimony to the impeachment inquiry against Donald Trump on October 31, 2019, Morrison was reported to be leaving his post soon as the senior director for European and Russian affairs on the National Security Council. He was to be replaced by Andrew Peek, at the time Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Iraq and Iran in the Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs.

Morrison holds a Juris Doctor from George Washington University and a BA in Political Science from the University of Minnesota.

Morrison was among the people listening in on the July 25, 2019 phone conversation between President Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky that is central to the impeachment inquiry against Donald Trump. He was a primary source of information regarding the matter to William B. Taylor, Jr., the acting US ambassador to Ukraine.

Morrison's deposition in the impeachment inquiry against Donald Trump, given behind closed doors on October 31, partially corroborated the earlier deposition by Taylor, in particular that U.S. Ambassador to the E.U. Gordon Sondland had told Andrey Yermak, an aide to Zelensky via telephone that military aid to Ukraine, and a White house meeting with Trump, were conditional on a Ukrainian public announcement of an investigation into Burisma, and the Ukraine involvement in the 2016 U.S. Presidential election. Morrison also testified that his concerns regarding the Trump–Zelensky call, which he promptly communicated to White House lawyers, were about repercussions if the transcript of the call was to be leaked, not about the legality of its content or quid pro quo. According to official transcripts of Morrison's closed door testimony, Morrison stated, "I want to be clear, I was not concerned that anything illegal was discussed," in the telephone call between Trump and Zelensky. Morrison also testified that Ukrainian officials were not aware that certain military funding had been delayed by the Trump administration until late August 2019, more than a month after the Trump-Zelensky call.

During public testimony before the U.S. House of Representatives on November 19, 2019, Morrison stated that Sondland confirmed to him that there was indeed a quid pro quo requirement for US aid to Ukraine, and again brought up the telephone conversation between Sondland and Yermak, which took place on September 1, 2019.​

It's amazing to me how this was very straightforward information even a week ago. I read this Tim Morrison bullshit in Real Clear Politics but I'm going to go by the stuff Dr. Fauci is saying - which that it would be super good to have the pandemic group right now. There was also a simulation on this very topic given to the Trump transition team, which they blew off because governing is so easy. It certainly is when you don't govern, which is the case for every GOP member including Trump who is the head of the GOP.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

FWIW, here is the Politifact fact check from 2/28: Did Donald Trump fire pandemic officials, defund CDC?

In May 2018, the top White House official in charge of the U.S. response to pandemics left the administration. Rear Admiral Timothy Ziemer was the senior director of global health and biodefense on the National Security Council and oversaw global health security issues, a specialty that had been bolstered under President Barack Obama.

After Ziemer’s departure, the global health team was reorganized as part of an effort by then-National Security Adviser John Bolton. Meanwhile, Tom Bossert, a homeland security adviser who recommended strong defenses against disease and biological warfare, was reportedly pushed out by Bolton in 2018. Neither White House official or their teams, which were responsible for coordinating the U.S. response to pandemic outbreaks across agencies, have been replaced during the past two years.

In November 2019, a bipartisan group of lawmakers and experts formally recommended that health security leadership on the NSC should be restored. And on Feb. 18, 2020, a group of 27 senators sent a letter to current National Security Adviser Robert O’Brien to ask him to appoint a new global health security expert to the NSC.
​

This is Snopes:Did Trump Administration Fire the US Pandemic Response Team?

Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer abruptly departed from his post leading the global health security team on the National Security Council in May 2018 amid a reorganization of the council by then-National Security Advisor John Bolton, and Ziemer’s team was disbanded. Tom Bossert, whom the Washington Post reported “had called for a comprehensive biodefense strategy against pandemics and biological attacks,” had been fired one month prior.

It’s thus true that the Trump administration axed the executive branch team responsible for coordinating a response to a pandemic and did not replace it, eliminating Ziemer’s position and reassigning others, although Bolton was the executive at the top of the National Security Council chain of command at the time.​

 

[Stigmata]

I'd like to take this time to give an extra special thank you to all the phone books, appliance instruction manuals, and door hanging food takeout menus who have floated us until the stores have been able to replenish toilet paper supplies -- y'all the real MVPs...

 

[Virtual ghost]

I think he meants that almost entire stock market money is in the private sector and doesnt belong to the government, so if the goverment suddenly decises to freeze it, it would be as if the government had forcely froze your bank account (it would be like that for investors and stock market company). However, freezing for the virus doesnt sound like a bad idea, but to force this money freeze it would sound a little bit "facist", perhaps? It wouldnt be an intervention that has a direct connection to any social issues.

Brazil is a funny place: In the 90´s, one president simply frozen all bank accounts and took money away from saving accounts. It was a huge mess.

I really wouldn't call myself stock market expert however towards certain logic the stock market can only have massive loses when real economy is closing. I mean I am talking about freeze for only a few weeks until this passes over. The more half-solutions you implement the longer this is going to last.

Not sure, that's why I added a question mark. Just what I assumed. Also, stocks fund businesses. So the freezing may hurt certain businesses that are vital to the economy as well as livelyhoods. I think it's essential to keep as many things running as possible without running exposure risk. So things like tech might be fine. This will result in the economy having a much easier time on the rebound when this is over.

In my country this is being solved with the laws that allow not paying at the time, so that basically everything can close for a month of so. Because if too many have to work that means you are not fighting the pandemic and that means you will almost surely have complete disaster down the road. For me this is literally on the level: can we together freeze this game of monopoly so that some can go to the toilet, some have a smoke on the balcony and the host get us a new package of beer. It is trivial level thinking but the contact has to be reduced significantly if you are serious about the pandemic. For me complete freeze means that there will not be real loses and therefore real rebound. As long as you allow someone to work you allow someone to get ahead and that is unfair. The only ones that should work is the most basic stuff: food industry and distribution, pharmacy, basic security (police, firefighters, healthcare).

 

[Tomb1]

In typical libertarian cuckoo clock fashion, Rand Paul votes against bi-partisan, emergency war package for fighting the Coronavirus.

Sen. Rand Paul votes against $8 billion coronavirus emergency package | News | wdrb.com

Coronavirus finds new ally in its unrelenting drive to infect every city and neighborhood of America; libertarianism.

 

[Population: 1]

Hey, at least we have idiots licking airplane toilet seats for a Wuhan Flu challenge.

 

[ceecee]

I'd like to take this time to give an extra special thank you to all the phone books, appliance instruction manuals, and door hanging food takeout menus who have floated us until the stores have been able to replenish toilet paper supplies -- y'all the real MVPs...

I'll go you one better. This is at the top of the search for toilet paper on Amazon.

50 Reusable Toilet Paper, Paper Towels, Baby Wipes, and Cleaning Wipes - This Reusable Bath and Facial Tissue Replacement is Great to Stock Up On In Your Household.

 

[Mind Maverick]

I do know it's overhyped, but on the same hand I think it's difficult to gauge how concerned I really should be and I'd rather be overly cautious than not cautious enough, especially when I have a heart condition. I may be perfectly fine if I catch it but it's not worth the risk. Better to be safe than sorry.

 

[FemMecha]

So a couple of days ago the U.S. CDC is recommending an 8 week quarantine social distancing and school closing. The gatherings of 50 have been up/downgraded to 10. Anyone hear anything different or newer?

The CDC recommends organizers cancel or postpone events with 50 people or more for 8 weeks - CNN

 

[Virtual ghost]