Coronavirus

[Vendrah]

We cannot know for sure, but I think it's always safer to assume either incompetence or malicious intent from the government.

Not all billionaires are evil, unironically. It's unfair to say they are all evil.

The world is ruled by both, actually, the billionaires and most rich and "the government". I don't think you disagree with that at all. So there is not really much reason to trust both. And second, at USA specifically, Trump was the most powerful guy at the government at that time no doubt - while also being a billionaire. This is some of my point, if there is no such reason to "trust the government", there is no such reason to deal with Trump with too much trust as well.

Trump was the first one that pushed the vaccine, if you remember. He called out the health organizations as being shady about how to deal with it/its severity, which is often misconstrued as him saying the virus itself is fake. He is the one that also streamlined the first vaccines productions. He is, even now, telling people to get vaccinated. Vaccine has a 1% chance of killing you via allergic reaction, myocarditis etc,. And so does the virus. I don't understand why they are pushing it so hard, when it isn't even very effective to begin with. It's has less effectiveness than the flu vaccine. You can still catch, and transmit the virus even while fully vaccinated, with an even higher viral load than those who were unvaccinated. Natural immunity is more effective than the vaccine. So why are the governments pushing it so hard? They didn't do that with the flu. That is concerning to me. It could even possibly just be mass hysteria that is affecting everyone.

I think Virtual Ghost already answered that - the vaccines doesn't kill as much as the virus. Also, flu is around by hundreds of years as far as I know, maybe more than a thousand? Corona on this variant is sort of novel. Natural immunity was already tried here in Brazil, specially in the middle of the Amazon last year on Manaus. It ended up with hospitals full and lots of deaths, basically. The country I live did tried the natural immunity - president here never had a national lockdown and most state lockdowns were modest. It wasn't hard to find unmasked people, specially at the first months and at the end of the year. The economy here felt a lot on GDP Per capita on US dollars and lots of people died. Now things are more "peaceful" (there is not really much peace on this country lately) after mass vaccination..

Beyond that and a little off topic, I still want to again warn you against the conservatives; Through our point of view, we see this world as full of lies, a world that either we don't like but in some way its strange to us - you know, in my own case I've voted two elections, which featured president, mayor, senators, etc... not a single one of that I voted did win. If things were up to me, I would do everything on a different way - beyond capitalism and socialism. You know, I sort of think that the same applies to you, even though you probably would not do it the way I would do. This is entirely different for conservatives; if you look at the definition of the word, the word "conservative" does imply some sort of satisfaction about the system as a whole - very happy with capitalism and wanna even more capitalism - either on present or on a recent past. That is not me at all and is probably not you at all either. Im not saying you should be a democrat - forget that "if you are not A, you are B" but I think you probably already got that. I just don't see you being alike them at all.

But joining on the topic again, I am actually not trying to convince you. I just wanna to point that not only us have this common ground - but lots of people on the forum - of mistrust and dissatisfaction "with the system" - but also to point that you shouldn't be so sure about what you are saying as Im not even as sure what Im saying. In the end, we are forced to put ourselves into two different bets on sources while knowing that most likely both of our sources are distorting information without ever truly knowing which one is lying even more. I have reasons for my own bet - my own experience on my country, the fact that my president is an actual psychopath and did took the "covid is a hoax" route, the economic disaster things have been without a single national lockdown, etc.. but also some other reasons like @Virtual ghost posts that have been very reasonable all along the crisis - he is able to explain that better than me. I understand or try to understand you have your own reasons to bet otherwise, and I've know you may "suffer a bit" because most of TypoC is doing the bet I am doing. But as much crazy as I sound to others, I actually grasp a little bit of your perspective, I believe, but I also take you more seriously than any others on the same stance because you don't seem to take it out of dogmatism or because you are a "Trump/Bolsonaro fan", you don't seem at all like these guys that are taking the "COVID = mass hysteria" because Trump/Bolsonaro said so or just because you are a neoliberal, pseudo libertarian who preaches the ultimate freedom... for those who have money, not people in general. So in the end our basic premises are similar; We are just betting differently.

But since you aren't really going to listen to me none of this really matters.

As I said on the last paragraph, tebh is different than the other guys who says things like that.

 

[Maou]

The world is ruled by both, actually, the billionaires and most rich and "the government". I don't think you disagree with that at all. So there is not really much reason to trust both. And second, at USA specifically, Trump was the most powerful guy at the government at that time no doubt - while also being a billionaire. This is some of my point, if there is no such reason to "trust the government", there is no such reason to deal with Trump with too much trust as well.

Not even I trusted Trump as much as other people. But I do feel people here don't give credit where it is due, because its on the "other side".

I think Virtual Ghost already answered that - the vaccines doesn't kill as much as the virus. Also, flu is around by hundreds of years as far as I know, maybe more than a thousand? Corona on this variant is sort of novel. Natural immunity was already tried here in Brazil, specially in the middle of the Amazon last year on Manaus. It ended up with hospitals full and lots of deaths, basically. The country I live did tried the natural immunity - president here never had a national lockdown and most state lockdowns were modest. It wasn't hard to find unmasked people, specially at the first months and at the end of the year. The economy here felt a lot on GDP Per capita on US dollars and lots of people died. Now things are more "peaceful" (there is not really much peace on this country lately) after mass vaccination..

I still think this is speculative, because if the reporting, the FDA, the CDC, and the WHO is all compromised and corrupted, then so are the numbers. Just enough, so its not easy to falsify, similar to embezzlement. But at this point, I am pretty sure they could outright lie, and everyone would still believe these organizations. Remember, CHINA is on the WHO board. They are notorious for crimes against humanity, and with human experimentation and zero safety laws. I am not informed on other countries, mostly the western ones. So I cannot say whether or not other countries have the same corruption.

Beyond that and a little off topic, I still want to again warn you against the conservatives; Through our point of view, we see this world as full of lies, a world that either we don't like but in some way its strange to us - you know, in my own case I've voted two elections, which featured president, mayor, senators, etc... not a single one of that I voted did win. If things were up to me, I would do everything on a different way - beyond capitalism and socialism. You know, I sort of think that the same applies to you, even though you probably would not do it the way I would do. This is entirely different for conservatives; if you look at the definition of the word, the word "conservative" does imply some sort of satisfaction about the system as a whole - very happy with capitalism and wanna even more capitalism - either on present or on a recent past. That is not me at all and is probably not you at all either. Im not saying you should be a democrat - forget that "if you are not A, you are B" but I think you probably already got that. I just don't see you being alike them at all.

I still don't understand why people assume I follow conservative media etc. In fact, I checked out of politics for a while for over a year. I haven't followed anything. I would actually lean more anarchist now, because I have completely given up on democracy as a viable tool for change. Globalism was the worst thing to happen to humanity, and it will fall just like Rome. I do agree we need something "beyond capitalism and socialism", because no system will work 100%. Capitalism itself isn't the problem its business cartels and manipulation of the market. Its manipulation of the media, its manipulation of the government, and its laws. If you can influence it, you can corrupt it. Conservative simply means to "preserve", because its a tried and true method. Think of it like a food recipe. Suddenly introducing new things into apple pie, doesn't always make it a better pie. The reason people shift to conservatism as they get older, is because they miss the "old times" as much as they want their SS checks. When things constantly "progress", nothing remains intact. Thus, nothing of value is preserved.

Whatever I define myself as, is not part of any political group. I am on my own.

But joining on the topic again, I am actually not trying to convince you. I just wanna to point that not only us have this common ground - but lots of people on the forum - of mistrust and dissatisfaction "with the system" - but also to point that you shouldn't be so sure about what you are saying as Im not even as sure what Im saying. In the end, we are forced to put ourselves into two different bets on sources while knowing that most likely both of our sources are distorting information without ever truly knowing which one is lying even more. I have reasons for my own bet - my own experience on my country, the fact that my president is an actual psychopath and did took the "covid is a hoax" route, the economic disaster things have been without a single national lockdown, etc.. but also some other reasons like @Virtual ghost posts that have been very reasonable all along the crisis - he is able to explain that better than me. I understand or try to understand you have your own reasons to bet otherwise, and I've know you may "suffer a bit" because most of TypoC is doing the bet I am doing. But as much crazy as I sound to others, I actually grasp a little bit of your perspective, I believe, but I also take you more seriously than any others on the same stance because you don't seem to take it out of dogmatism or because you are a "Trump/Bolsonaro fan", you don't seem at all like these guys that are taking the "COVID = mass hysteria" because Trump/Bolsonaro said so or just because you are a neoliberal, pseudo libertarian who preaches the ultimate freedom... for those who have money, not people in general. So in the end our basic premises are similar; We are just betting differently.

I am not really trying to convince anyone either. I've done this song and dance more than once. I am well aware of the common ground between us, but some people are intolerant if someone disagrees. They see it as a challenge to their entire existence. I am not here to challenge anyone's existence or validity, I just wanted to share how I felt about everything. As much as I used to hate the idea of being a cp6, the canary in the coal mine is the only warning you have against certain death. Regardless if I am right or wrong. I think people should just...think about it. What if I am right? What plan do you have if I am right? What plan do I have if I am wrong? I constantly doubt whether I am right, but I rather be wrong and say it, then be right and say nothing at all. Do people really go through life and not look at things from both angles all the time? That is insane to me, to go through life so sure of your own convictions, the same convictions the media shares, the same convictions the corporations share. The truth, cannot be so mainstream. Yeah, sometimes I venture into conspiracy... because that is what it means to be open minded. Being open minded doesn't mean that everything people believe, should be accepted regardless. The same applies to social, and political theories. Anyways, I think I am going to step out of this conversation now. So nice chat.

As I said on the last paragraph, tebh is different than the other guys who says things like that.

I actually greatly appreciate this sentiment. So thank you for being patient with me.

 

[Virtual ghost]

What part of "Its not a vaccine" didn't you get. The boosters might even cause ADE in people over time. Since these "vaccines" were hardly tested, what will you do if they inadvertently made everything worse because they caused everyone to get ADE, and now they need booster shots for the rest of their lives or they die? Since the vaccine uses mRNA technology, the possibility is a lot higher than they are admitting.

Not all vaccines are based on mRNA, so this argument doesn't stand as the fundamental truth. Plus in this part of the world we are much more serious about regulating toxic substances and we even banned GMO food altogether. Therefore I somehow don't believe that there is a serious risk for the population at large here. Since these vaccines wouldn't be approved if they are really dangerous. While the virus will almost surely end the world as we know it if it isn't removed. Plus at this point something like 5 BILLION doses were already distributed globally and it seems that there aren't some civilization ending consequences.


But as I said I actually prefer lockdowns over vaccines. If done properly they solve the problem faster and without chemistry (as explained a few posts back).

The "Damage to the organs" isn't something unique to covid. All influenza and related respiratory infections all do similar damage. This is just classic example of click bait from the media taking advantage of ignorance. Also, I am not including just deaths in this, but vaccine injury. In comparison, the vaccine for the swine flue was cancled after only 53 deaths. Yet thousands of people have died of the vaccine, and its complications, and its still being used. That isn't including injuries

Not every country is going to be the same, but if they are getting the recipe for the vaccine from USA, you should be concerned.

Yes but COVID isn't influenza. So this doesn't really stand either.
Influenza doesn't put endless people on ventilators in August. Plus the fact that they actually banned dangerous vaccine proves that the system isn't as bonkers you would likely it to be. Because in the end this is about the fact that you want the world to match you own sorrow. As the famous line says: Search your feelings lord Vader, you will know it to be true.

 

[FemMecha]

COVID-19 numbers are under-reported, and likely including deaths. England is giving up on recording numbers because they are going to be so high it will only cause public panic. The U.S. has always been inconsistent reporting all the numbers. Yes, data isn't tracked 100% but that doesn't logically infer that the numbers are lower, it is quite the opposite. The reason flu numbers went down and covid went up during the shut-down is because *COVID-19 is not the flu*. It is that much worse.

[video=youtube;MBIrVttxXzI[]

 

[Vendrah]

COVID-19 numbers are under-reported, and likely including deaths. England is giving up on recording numbers because they are going to be so high it will only cause public panic. The U.S. has always been inconsistent reporting all the numbers. Yes, data isn't tracked 100% but that doesn't logically infer that the numbers are lower, it is quite the opposite. The reason flu numbers went down and covid went up during the shut-down is because *COVID-19 is not the flu*. It is that much worse.

Most COVID-19 deaths that are NOT of COVID are tracked as they are some sort of flu (respiratory diseases category).
On Brazil, last year, I did figured numbers were down due to taking the difference between respiratory diseases from 2019 and from 2020. The difference at time were 1.5x from official - I haven't saw any update thus far (but I didn't came to look deeply) so i just use 1.5x as a correction.

However, as you (I am not a 100% it was you, but I think it was) had posted a few months ago on this thread, there is also the recovered people who dies 6 months later, dying more often than a non-recovery group of same age. There are people who dies 6 months later after their recover because COVID affected their immune system, their hearts, caused diabetes, etc... This has potential to double. So the real number should be likely 2-3x than average. Im not really over-dramatizing, the estimate is reasonable (respiratory diseases increase + recovered people dying on a 6 months timing window). So for example, here I already know that very likely more than a million had died already.

 

[Virtual ghost]

COVID surge in Southeast Asia disrupts global supply chains

As I said the system can't take this over and over again.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Now we should keep a look at the countries like Spain. Since they are fairly large country with fairly lose culture, however they vaccinated 3/4 of the population from what I see and most of the people who remained are probably minors. What is fairly close to the desired 80+% of the people that are vaccinated (plus they aren't fully done with vaccinations) . Therefore now we will see in the near future what will be the effect of all this, even if colder weather is coming in the fall.



Thus far the numbers/trends look promising.

Worldometer Spain

 

[JocktheMotie]

Probably the best estimate for covid-related deaths is going to be tracking excess deaths compared to other yearly averages. Deaths via heart attack, cancer, car accidents, falling off of ladders, etc tend be generally consistent year over year so whatever the Delta (harhar) is you can chalk up to flu+covid.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Probably the best estimate for covid-related deaths is going to be tracking excess deaths compared to other yearly averages. Deaths via heart attack, cancer, car accidents, falling off of ladders, etc tend be generally consistent year over year so whatever the Delta (harhar) is you can chalk up to flu+covid.

Did you just make a joke about delta referring to changes in physics and computing (perhaps math in general)? If so, I approve.

 

[SD45T-2]

And now for something completely different!

Eliron Lubaton: "This dude should start a band named 'Rage against the vaccine'"

[I've been fully vaccinated since May, FYI]

 

[ceecee]

Do ppl really think Joe Rogan had COVID and hasn't been vaccinated for months? lol

 

[Vendrah]

Do ppl really think Joe Rogan had COVID and hasn't been vaccinated for months? lol

Yes, I do!!!! Obviously.

"Just kidding, I don't even know who that guy is nor I need to."

 

[ceecee]

Yes, I do!!!! Obviously.

"Just kidding, I don't even know who that guy is nor I need to."

Joe Rogan considers suing CNN over Ivermectin ‘horse dewormer’ claims

Joe Rogan appears to have fully recovered from his recent bout with COVID-19 and is clearly upset with how the media reported his use of the controversial drug, Ivermectin. Just last week Rogan announced he had tested positive for COVID-19 and taken Ivermectin, a drug routinely used to deworm...

sports.yahoo.com

I reckon he a) never had COVID and b) was vaccinated months ago. Plus he's trying to simultaneously be a free speech guy and now wants to sue for free speech guy. He's a clown - always has been.

 

[Red Herring]

https://www.theguardian.com/society...Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1631115758

London transport staff warned of razors inside Covid conspiracy posters​

TfL says ‘propaganda posters’ spreading vaccination untruths have been placed on doors and walls

Ben Quinn and Damien Gayle
Wed 8 Sep 2021 18.27 BST
Staff on London’s public transport network have been warned that blades are being concealed inside posters promoting conspiracy theories about Covid-19 and vaccinations.

Transport for London (TfL) said there had been a number of reports of razor blades being attached to the back of the posters intended to harm anyone taking them down, and that at least one person was harmed in an incident outside its network.


Trade union representatives for transport workers, who likened the tactic to that used in the past by fascists from the National Front, have raised the issue on a safety forum for staff and management and are to provide a warning to members.

 

[KitchenFly]

Best action is to get vaccinated. Those who chose not to be vaccinated run the risk of being a martyr. There are more than seven billion people living on this planet.

Is the planet over populated?

 

[Jai]

Best action is to get vaccinated. Those who chose not to be vaccinated run the risk of being a martyr. There are more than seven billion people living on this planet.

Is the planet over populated?

Considering we have more than enough resources to provide for everyone on the planet and then some, I'm going to say no.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Ivermectin causes sterilization in 85 percent of men, 2011 Nigerian study finds​

The study conducted by researchers in Nigeria screened 385 patients with river blindness to investigate the effects of ivermectin on sperm function. For the study, the ivermectin tablets were used by patients.

Of the 385 patients screened, 37 were eligible for further testing and had normal sperm counts, while the “remaining patients had very low sperm counts and were therefore not used for further tests or were too weak” when initial screening was performed, according to the study.

​

 

[Virtual ghost]

Italian police raid homes of anti-vaccine activists who plotted violent attacks

 

[ceecee]

Useful article debunking the depressingly popular bit of misinformation that holds that "lots of people medically *can't* get vaccinated.'"

When ‘Talk to Your Doctor’ Goes So, So Wrong

Vanishingly few people have legitimate reasons to avoid COVID-19 vaccination. Some say their doctors told them not to get vaccinated anyway.

www.theatlantic.com

“I do get a sense that some doctors may either recommend against vaccination or support a patient’s view of not being vaccinated,” Kimberly Blumenthal, an immunologist and drug-allergy researcher at Massachusetts General Hospital, told me. Many people have come to Blumenthal for a second opinion after their primary-care doctors told them not to get the jab.

She tells them that vanishingly few people can’t get either an mRNA or the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. Several medical practices told me they have zero patients who meet the criteria for a medical exemption. People who are allergic to an ingredient in one of the vaccines should simply get a different kind. Pregnant? Immunocompromised? Already had COVID-19? You should still get the jab, experts say. In rare cases, people might need to wait a few days or months before being vaccinated, and people who had an allergic reaction to the first dose of a Pfizer or Moderna vaccine might not be able to tolerate the second shot. But “really the only reason not to get vaccinated is you’re under 12,” Céline Gounder, an infectious-disease expert at New York University, told me.

 

[KitchenFly]

Considering we have more than enough resources to provide for everyone on the planet and then some, I'm going to say no.

A-Ar you like smelling roses.