Coronavirus

[Virtual ghost]

Again new global daily record on worldometer: 348 600

 

[Virtual ghost]

From worldometer


France +20300
UK +13800
Ukraine +5300
Netherlands +5900
Romania +3200
Poland +4700
Switzerland +1500
Hungary +1100
Slovakia +1200
Portugal +1400
Czechia + 4500
Italy +5300
Belgium +5700
Germany +4700
Spain +6000
Austria +1100

Etc.


Things are evidently getting out of control in Europe.

 

[Jaguar]

Coronavirus: Wisconsin bar owner details from hospital bed

"I want everybody to know this is real. This isn't fake news," Schultz said. "Our president would rather tell a lie to make people feel good about their lot in life than tell the truth."

He said as soon as he received his diagnosis, he closed his bar and restaurant to protect others.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Once again a daily global record: 358 500

 

[Tellenbach]

Sweden's Covid-19 data

Daily Deaths:

9/1/2020 - 3
9/2/2020 - 2
9/3/2020 - 2
9/4/2020 - 0
9/5/2020 - 0
9/6/2020 - 3
9/7/2020 - 1
9/8/2020 - 1
9/9/2020 - 2
9/10/2020 - 2
9/11/2020 - 4
9/12/2020 - 1
9/13/2020 - 2
9/14/2020 - 2
9/15/2020 - 1
9/16/2020 - 2
9/17/2020 - 1
9/18/2020 - 1
9/19/2020 - 1
9/20/2020 - 4
9/21/2020 - 2
9/22/2020 - 1
9/23/2020 - 0
9/24/2020 - 1
9/25/2020 - 4
9/26/2020 - 2
9/27/2020 - 1
9/28/2020 - 1
9/29/2020 - 1
9/30/2020 - 2
10/1/2020 - 1
10/2/2020 - 2
10/3/2020 - 1
10/4/2020 - 2
10/5/2020 - 2
10/6/2020 - 1
10/7/2020 - 0
10/8/2020 - 0
10/9/2020 - 5

It's pretty clear that Sweden's policy worked tremendously well in stopping the epidemic. They have not had double digit deaths since July 18, 2020. What we're doing is slowing down the rate of infection/deaths but not stopping it cold like Sweden. I think Sweden's model is how we should proceed in future pandemics - quickly achieve herd immunity, while protecting the vulnerable, and not shutting down the economy.

 

[Jaguar]

If at this stage of the game anyone thinks the opposite of death is perfect health, there's a major problem. Just because someone didn't die doesn't mean they have any quality of life to look forward to with scarred lungs, heart inflammation, irregular heart rhythms or neurological disease. There is no great success going on.

COVID-19 Can Wreck Your Heart, Even if You Have Not Had Any Symptoms - Scientific American

If you're too lazy to learn what the virus is doing to the human body, then stop posting reckless propaganda.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Sweden's Covid-19 data

Daily Deaths:

9/1/2020 - 3
9/2/2020 - 2
9/3/2020 - 2
9/4/2020 - 0
9/5/2020 - 0
9/6/2020 - 3
9/7/2020 - 1
9/8/2020 - 1
9/9/2020 - 2
9/10/2020 - 2
9/11/2020 - 4
9/12/2020 - 1
9/13/2020 - 2
9/14/2020 - 2
9/15/2020 - 1
9/16/2020 - 2
9/17/2020 - 1
9/18/2020 - 1
9/19/2020 - 1
9/20/2020 - 4
9/21/2020 - 2
9/22/2020 - 1
9/23/2020 - 0
9/24/2020 - 1
9/25/2020 - 4
9/26/2020 - 2
9/27/2020 - 1
9/28/2020 - 1
9/29/2020 - 1
9/30/2020 - 2
10/1/2020 - 1
10/2/2020 - 2
10/3/2020 - 1
10/4/2020 - 2
10/5/2020 - 2
10/6/2020 - 1
10/7/2020 - 0
10/8/2020 - 0
10/9/2020 - 5

It's pretty clear that Sweden's policy worked tremendously well in stopping the epidemic. They have not had double digit deaths since July 18, 2020. What we're doing is slowing down the rate of infection/deaths but not stopping it cold like Sweden. I think Sweden's model is how we should proceed in future pandemics - quickly achieve herd immunity, while protecting the vulnerable, and not shutting down the economy.

So you admit that there is some reason in government run healthcare and that their current socialist administration did a good job ?

 

[Tellenbach]

So you admit that there is some reason in government run healthcare and that their current socialist administration did a good job ?

Sweden did a good job relative to the shitty job that many western nations have done, but if I or any other libertarian were running things, there wouldn't be a pandemic at all.

 

[Jaguar]

Sweden's so-called leaders should be jailed for incompetence.

COVID-19: Herd immunity in Sweden fails to materialize

Sweden's policy of allowing the controlled spread of COVID-19 viral infection among the population has so far failed to deliver the country's previously stated goal of herd immunity.

The health authorities predicted that 40% of the Stockholm population would have had the disease and acquired antibodies by May 2020. However, the actual prevalence figure was around 15%. While clinical and research findings suggest that severely infected COVID-19 patients do acquire antibodies in the immediate and early recovery phase of their illness, antibodies are much less commonly found in only mildly ill or asymptomatic patients. This means they are very likely not to be immune, and so cannot act as a bulwark against further spread of infection amongst the community.

On a side note:

New coronavirus can infect your eyes as well as your lungs

 

[Tellenbach]

Sweden's policy of allowing the controlled spread of COVID-19 viral infection among the population has so far failed to deliver the country's previously stated goal of herd immunity.

That article's from August. It's now October. What metric are people using when they're criticizing Sweden? Sweden has a lower death rate per capita than the USA now.

 

[Jaguar]

That article's from August.

Glad you can read. Next you'll be fantasizing that infecting millions with HIV or genital herpes will give everyone herd immunity.

 

[Tellenbach]

Glad you can read. Next you'll be fantasizing that infecting millions with HIV or genital herpes will give everyone herd immunity.

You've looked at the graph of Sweden's daily death rate. How do you explain that it's flat-lined at around zero deaths since mid July?

 

[Hive]

 

[Jaguar]

You've looked at the graph of Sweden's daily death rate. How do you explain that it's flat-lined at around zero deaths since mid July?

You and Rand Paul have something in common:

Why not bring your little friend into the picture—Mister Vitamin D–and postulate the difference in death rates could vary with latitude, the ability to absorb UV radiation, and seasonal vitamin d levels?

 

[Tellenbach]

[MENTION=195]Jaguar[/MENTION] - you didn't answer the question. It's truly amazing. You look at the graph and it's clear as day that Sweden's doing great right now but some people just can't admit that because they've already taken a position that Sweden was wrong.

 

[Jaguar]

[MENTION=195]Jaguar[/MENTION] - you didn't answer the question. It's truly amazing.

1. Get out the yellow pages.
2. Go to the letter O.
3. Look up optometrists.
4. Make an appointment.

I'm off to the store. Converse with yourself. Start worrying if you hear voices.

 

[Virtual ghost]

You've looked at the graph of Sweden's daily death rate. How do you explain that it's flat-lined at around zero deaths since mid July?

That is simple to explain: the system started to do it's job. Here we have that kind of a death curve since day one and on the the worst day in the record we have 8 deaths. While for Sweden on worldometer it is 115 deaths on the worst day. In other words they lost 5894 people until know and we lost 317 people. While population is 10 million vs 4 million for them. So when you do the math we completely beat them in deaths per capita, since we did things much more by the book. Actually our lockdown was so decent that for a few weeks we didn't even have any new cases at all. So in the case that the virus didn't got imported from abroad again that would be it for us.

The direct comparison can be made.

Sweden worldometer

Croatia worldometer

So what happened in the Summer for Sweden ? Protest from the rest of the continent and they got banned from traveling around the continent and going to the vacations around other EU countries, like in typical summer. Therefore that is what got them thinking, since if you look at the summer their infections also dropped by visible margin. What suggests that whole country took it much more seriously. Especially since many of their neighboring countries had 5 to 10 better picture in the deaths per capita. Realistically Sweden should have outperformed my country but it didn't since it took fundamentally wrong approach. Not to mention that now WE have a spike in cases exactly since we started to behave like Sweden a while back, and therefore now we are rolling back many pandemic measures in order to push numbers back down. Therefore now when Sweden does things more by the book they have a few hundred cases a day and they lose 1 to 2% of those people. What is those few deaths a day that you mentioned. What is because they generally have pretty good healthcare system and in general they are pretty disciplined nation. Plus they have institutional paid sick leave. So just through that they make sure infected people stay home, what can do miracles in current situation. On this side of the Atlantic just a strong suspicion that you have COVID is sending you paid sick leave.



But you are making the same point over and over again and that is because you are anti lockdown. Therefore I will repeat myself. Starting lockdowns were necessary globally because sudden global pandemic exploded the need for masks and various sanitizers. Therefore people needed to stop working in order that the system can stockpile enough of them and rise production to sufficient levels. Therefore out of 7800 million people on the planet about 10 million rich people known as Sweden decided to play with the rules. Since they can pay more and get a priority in ordering equipment so that they can avoid lockdown and just start new normal. However in the big picture we would have global socio-economic meltdown in the case that everyone did what Sweden did. Since there simply wouldn't be enough masks for this "experiment" and the pandemic would went completely out of control pretty much everywhere right from the start. Especially since hospitals also needed time to adapt to the situation. However Sweden's original logic failed and they eventually had to toughen up the approach and so far still only about 1 percent of the people got the virus for sure (what is far from any kind of herd immunity). Not to mention that many places have much higher population density than Sweden that is basically European Alaska (4 cities and a lot of woods and lakes). Therefore making direct comparisons with other countries is questionable, especially since global lockdown was fundamentally needed to sort out supply and demand.

 

[Vendrah]

Anyway, lots of people are dying in Brazil and US.
If herd immunity really worked then the deaths would have stop in Brazil and US, since in both these places the lockdown was weak, specially the former, but people are still dying in there.

Im more prone to believe that it was indeed the good and public health care system they have, a proper "medcareforalll", that did handled.

Still, the Sweden population is 10 million, the US is almost 330 million, which is a relation of 33.
So, supposing [MENTION=4347]Virtual ghost[/MENTION] got the Sweden death count right, 5900 deaths in a 10 million is (5900x33) in a population of 330 million, which gives 194k deaths in US terms.

While population is 10 million vs 4 million for them.

Its the opposite, 10 million for them, 4 million for you.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Anyway, lots of people are dying in Brazil and US.
If herd immunity really worked then the deaths would have stop in Brazil and US, since in both these places the lockdown was weak, specially the former, but people are still dying in there.

Im more prone to believe that it was indeed the good and public health care system they have, a proper "medcareforalll", that did handled.

Still, the Sweden population is 10 million, the US is almost 330 million, which is a relation of 33.
So, supposing [MENTION=4347]Virtual ghost[/MENTION] got the Sweden death count right, 5900 deaths in a 10 million is (5900x33) in a population of 330 million, which gives 194k deaths in US terms.

The population difference is true but I didn't want to complicate with adding even that. But when you compare Sweden's deaths per capita with their neighbors (with which they share plenty in cultural and economic sense) you get to see how much Sweden actually messed up at the start (since now it has relatively decent numbers).


Deaths per million from the start


Sweden: 583
Norway: 51
Iceland: 29
Finland 62
Denmark: 115
Latvia: 21
Estonia: 51
Lithuania: 38

US:661


So when their neighbors and continent at large started banning the travel from Sweden due to bad pandemic situation they had to rethink certain things. Especially since these weren't just vacations but business ties as well. Therefore just praising Sweden is simply shortsighted.

Its the opposite, 10 million for them, 4 million for you.

In my knowledge of English:
I expressed the populations as score in sports and then you can just say "for them" in the end. Since that indicates who has more and who has less if you know on which side I am.

 

[Vendrah]

The population difference is true but I didn't want to complicate with adding even that. But when you compare Sweden's deaths per capita with their neighbors (with which they share plenty in cultural and economic sense) you get to see how much Sweden actually messed up at the start (since now it has relatively decent numbers).


Deaths per million from the start


Sweden: 583
Norway: 51
Iceland: 29
Finland 62
Denmark: 115
Latvia: 21
Estonia: 51
Lithuania: 38

US:661


So when their neighbors and continent at large started banning the travel from Sweden due to bad pandemic situation they had to rethink certain things. Especially since these weren't just vacations but business ties as well. Therefore just praising Sweden is simply shortsighted.





In my knowledge of English:
I expressed the populations as score in sports and then you can just say "for them" in the end. Since that indicates who has more and who has less if you know on which side I am.

Yup, deaths per million expose my point in a more easier way to be understood.

But also there is this logic: If herd immunity from Sweden, even supposing it is a success due to low cases in the last two months, is something that could be extended for any other countries, then the US and Brazil would have a very low number of cases already, which is false.