Coronavirus

[ceecee]

I've been sick all week. Fortunately it's just a sinus infection but damn people, it shouldn't take a global epidemic to get everyone to wash their hands.

 

[Tennessee Jed]

^^yeah, I think these things serve a purpose of periodically thinning the herds. I’m still terrified of this stuff but not much I can do about it if it gets me

Exactly.

And old age sucks anyway. If the virus is going to take out anyone, it might as well be the elderly.

Even at the best of times, old age is basically just a long, slow holocaust. You get old and tired and full of pains, and you sit around and watch all your family and friends die off miserably and painfully. Then, when you're all alone in the world, you get sick and die yourself. And that's the BEST case scenario. The WORST case scenario is when you die first and your friends get to watch you take that dirt nap.

Don't get me wrong, I love my life. I spent all last night running dungeons as a tank in World of Warcraft and loved every second of it. But the end is coming sooner or later, and to me it's six of one and half a dozen of the other how it happens. The Grim Reaper is a bloodthirsty bastard, and once you get old enough he becomes a regular companion. It is what it is. It's the nature of the beast.

 

[ceecee]

Exactly.

And old age sucks anyway. If the virus is going to take out anyone, it might as well be the elderly.

Old age is basically just a long slow holocaust even at the best of times. You get old and tired and full of pains, and you sit around and watch all your family and friends die off miserably and painfully. Then, when you're all alone in the world, you get sick and die yourself. And that's the BEST case scenario. The WORST case scenario is when you die first and your friends get to watch you take that dirt nap.

Don't get me wrong, I love my life. I spent all last night running dugeons in World of Warcraft and loved every second of it. But the end is coming sooner or later, and to me it's six of one and half a dozen of the other how it happens. The Grim Reaper is a bloodthirsty bastard, and once you get old enough he becomes a regular companion. It is what it is. It's the nature of the beast.

I understand older people can have a kind of fascination with death/dying. I have parents in their early 70's, they are inching towards fetishizing on the subject. The flip side to the old people more likely to die from this virus are the babies who are vulnerable the same way. Toddlers. And people are out there pissing their pants about the birth rates, what's the least illegal way to force women to have babies all while saying CA is insane for providing the tests for free. Not profiting off this is the default position. Not the exception.

 

[Tennessee Jed]

I understand older people can have a kind of fascination with death/dying. I have parents in their early 70's, they are inching towards fetishizing on the subject.

The thought of death doesn't actually bother me much. I'm much more terrified of living too long and losing my faculties or living some constrained, pain-filled half-existence for some reason or other. I prefer a quick exit over a long slow one.

The flip side to the old people more likely to die from this virus are the babies who are vulnerable the same way. Toddlers. And people are out there pissing their pants about the birth rates, what's the least illegal way to force women to have babies all while saying CA is insane for providing the tests for free. Not profiting off this is the default position. Not the exception.

You kind of lost me on the politics there. But I think I agree. In any case if the government gives up and lets the virus do its thing, then hopefully the authorities will provide appropriate support and assistence to the elderly and infirm who are negatively affected by that decision.

 

[Maou]

Exactly.

And old age sucks anyway. If the virus is going to take out anyone, it might as well be the elderly.

Even at the best of times, old age is basically just a long, slow holocaust. You get old and tired and full of pains, and you sit around and watch all your family and friends die off miserably and painfully. Then, when you're all alone in the world, you get sick and die yourself. And that's the BEST case scenario. The WORST case scenario is when you die first and your friends get to watch you take that dirt nap.

Don't get me wrong, I love my life. I spent all last night running dungeons as a tank in World of Warcraft and loved every second of it. But the end is coming sooner or later, and to me it's six of one and half a dozen of the other how it happens. The Grim Reaper is a bloodthirsty bastard, and once you get old enough he becomes a regular companion. It is what it is. It's the nature of the beast.

This makes me sad. I didn't know you were any age. It really draws to perspectives. Dying sucks, and I know i will see many pass in my time personally. What bothers me personally, is unceremonious goodbyes. Something about unsaid thoughts, really is more tragic. Don't regret ehat you cannot undo.

 

[21%]

Really? When you have an administration that pulls shit like this....

Did Trump Fire the US Pandemic Response Team?

Coronavirus in U.S.: Trump cut funding to CDC, other disease response efforts | Fortune

and then look at their responses to natural disasters and other catastrophes, I don't know how anyone could be surprised.

But surely local authorities have some power? Lots of places seem extremely relaxed about it and still allow mass gatherings when they must *know* that there is already community transmission around. This hit the US late, compared to the rest of the world, so it's not like no one saw it coming, and based on recent examples from the Western world, they must have seen what's happening in Italy. They should have prepared medical systems, make sure there's enough supply of protective gear, make sure there's communication.

But then again, no country was really ready until it was at their doorstep. I've been following this for a while now, and I thought the US had *time*, and that their response would be more efficient.

I think the authorities are starting to conclude that there's pretty much nothing to be done about it but let it run its course.

China is the only country where they've managed to slow down its progression. But that was at the cost of imposing draconian travel restrictions and locking down a large population center. And there's still the question of what happens when they remove the travel restrictions and let life go back to normal. There's every indication that the flu will resurge and go back to circulating full-strength again. The coronavirus is acting pretty much like the standard flu: Circulating pretty freely, going through multiple waves, and hitting a big chunk of the population.

So it's a bind. You can't just lock everyone down until the warm weather hits and the flu season ends. That will ruin the economy and result in massive shortages of consumer goods. And you'll still probably see the coronavirus return in full force again next flu season.

Comparing it to the standard flu: We all have a pretty good natural immunity to the standard flu from many years of exposure, so the standard flu is mostly just an annoyance. Whereas the coronavirus is a first-timer for everyone. So none of us have any natural immunity to the coronavirus.

Apparently the coronavirus is actually quite a mild flu for most healthy people. Many healthy people may not even realize that they've caught it. But it could take a harsh toll on the elderly and the infirm on the first wave through. (See my previous posts on that subject.) Subsequent years will presumably be less of a problem because everyone will pick up some immunity from that first exposure.

So that's the bind: Lock down the population centers to spare the elderly and the infirm, ruining the economy and causing massive shortages of everything, or admit that there's probably not much to be done about it and let nature take its course.

I'm basing all this, of course, on just a few articles that I've read. The authorities in various countries are still trying to see if there's any way they can buy some time with limited quarantines, bans on public gatherings, and other such measures. But no one has found a real good solution yet for taming this thing, as I understand it.

Again, this is all just what I've seen from a few articles on the subject, and it's still early in the game. Things may yet sort out differently from what I'm predicting. And I don't have any medical background, so others may know more about this than me.

I see what you're saying, but I think most people are missing something vital: about 15% of those infected will require hospital care (including people younger than 60). Every local community needs to be calculating how many beds they have vs the size of the population, and they'll probably realize they cannot afford to let a lot of people catch it at the same time, and that the best practice is to ban large gatherings. Not to mention that people still need medical care for other 'normal' things: injuries, other diseases. There is no way to stop the virus now, but you need to worry about *slowing* it so that infected people can recover and be discharged before newer batches of patients come in. People with "mild" symptoms include those who have no symptoms to those bedridden for weeks but do not require to be hospitalized. Patients with "severe" symptoms need oxygen. "Critical" patients have organ failure and are on life support. People's attitude seems to be "I'm healthy so I won't die and I won't visit my grandparents so they won't get infected" -- but that's not enough. It's not about individuals. It's about the system in place. I'm starting to hear stories about first responders and healthcare workers being exposed and quarantined -- that's going to affect the system even more, and the more sick people go untreated, the more sick people there are, and the bigger the strain on the economy. Isn't this what people should be addressing? The media are also to blame for presenting only sensational news.

 

[Tennessee Jed]

I see what you're saying, but I think most people are missing something vital: about 15% of those infected will require hospital care (including people younger than 60). Every local community needs to be calculating how many beds they have vs the size of the population, and they'll probably realize they cannot afford to let a lot of people catch it at the same time, and that the best practice is to ban large gatherings. Not to mention that people still need medical care for other 'normal' things: injuries, other diseases. There is no way to stop the virus now, but you need to worry about *slowing* it so that infected people can recover and be discharged before newer batches of patients come in. People with "mild" symptoms include those who have no symptoms to those bedridden for weeks but do not require to be hospitalized. Patients with "severe" symptoms need oxygen. "Critical" patients have organ failure and are on life support. People's attitude seems to be "I'm healthy so I won't die and I won't visit my grandparents so they won't get infected" -- but that's not enough. It's not about individuals. It's about the system in place. I'm starting to hear stories about first responders and healthcare workers being exposed and quarantined -- that's going to affect the system even more, and the more sick people go untreated, the more sick people there are, and the bigger the strain on the economy. Isn't this what people should be addressing? The media are also to blame for presenting only sensational news.

Actually all those preparations have been going on in the background here in the US. I've been seeing a steady flow of headlines about FEMA, the military, and the CDC preparing quarantine camps, the CDC dispensing instructions to hospitals on how to deal with massive inflows of patients, etc. I just haven't clicked on those articles myself because I'm not really interested in the logistics of disaster preparations.

The hospitals will probably still be swamped when the time comes. But the US has had some breathing room on the coronavirus (more than some other countries), and in fact the authorities have been doing what they can to prepare for the coming storm based on what they've seen happening abroad with the coronavirus. They just haven't yet gotten to the point of restricting the public forcefully (travel bans, bans on gatherings, etc.). I expect they want to delay pulling the trigger on those latter measures as long as they can.

 

[Maou]

I do know in Japan, since the Corona scare, that the flu dropped to 44k confirmed cases. That is insanely low for a tightly packed country. Aka hygiene is on the rise.

 

[Tennessee Jed]

Here is a fun world map of coronavirus outbreaks, put together by Johns Hopkins hospital. You can move the map around to see different parts of the world by clicking and dragging, zoom in for close-ups, etc., same as any google map or whatever. Link: Operations Dashboard for ArcGIS

 

[ceecee]

But surely local authorities have some power? Lots of places seem extremely relaxed about it and still allow mass gatherings when they must *know* that there is already community transmission around. This hit the US late, compared to the rest of the world, so it's not like no one saw it coming, and based on recent examples from the Western world, they must have seen what's happening in Italy. They should have prepared medical systems, make sure there's enough supply of protective gear, make sure there's communication.

But then again, no country was really ready until it was at their doorstep. I've been following this for a while now, and I thought the US had *time*, and that their response would be more efficient.

I think the state/local authorities are the ones doing the most. I only mean that the administration track record is bad, regions outside of a metropolitan area lack faculties and doctors and resources to begin with.

I see what you're saying, but I think most people are missing something vital: about 15% of those infected will require hospital care (including people younger than 60). Every local community needs to be calculating how many beds they have vs the size of the population, and they'll probably realize they cannot afford to let a lot of people catch it at the same time, and that the best practice is to ban large gatherings. Not to mention that people still need medical care for other 'normal' things: injuries, other diseases. There is no way to stop the virus now, but you need to worry about *slowing* it so that infected people can recover and be discharged before newer batches of patients come in. People with "mild" symptoms include those who have no symptoms to those bedridden for weeks but do not require to be hospitalized. Patients with "severe" symptoms need oxygen. "Critical" patients have organ failure and are on life support. People's attitude seems to be "I'm healthy so I won't die and I won't visit my grandparents so they won't get infected" -- but that's not enough. It's not about individuals. It's about the system in place. I'm starting to hear stories about first responders and healthcare workers being exposed and quarantined -- that's going to affect the system even more, and the more sick people go untreated, the more sick people there are, and the bigger the strain on the economy. Isn't this what people should be addressing? The media are also to blame for presenting only sensational news.

This is all true - the system in place is not enough. And I'm certain there are sick people that will never be seen due to cost/lack of insurance/status. That's going to create even more problems.

 

[ceecee]

 

[Virtual ghost]

5 ways the global coronavirus is entangling Trump

 

[ceecee]

The thought of death doesn't actually bother me much. I'm much more terrified of living too long and losing my faculties or living some constrained, pain-filled half-existence for some reason or other. I prefer a quick exit over a long slow one.



You kind of lost me on the politics there. But I think I agree. In any case if the government gives up and lets the virus do its thing, then hopefully the authorities will provide appropriate support and assistence to the elderly and infirm who are negatively affected by that decision.

That the default should be testing people and not profiting off the tests, the treatments or the greater impact on the country is political? Ok. Babies and toddlers who don't have developed immunity are as at risk as the elderly. That's true no matter the virus, don't know how that is political. The people pissing their pants about birth rates - there is a reason people are having less children and that is 100% political.

By the way..

I'm a middle-of-the-roader, and I like to see stuff by both sides of the political spectrum.

What you are calling both side-ism, isn't. But I do hope you're entertained.

 

[Tennessee Jed]

But I do hope you're entertained.

By hyper-partisans who take every event that happens anywhere in the world and try to turn it into a personal indictment of Trump? Absolutely!

 

[Red Memories]

*Sigh* I live in ground zero and I am not very concerned.

I will tell you one thing; so tired of people concerned for me.

“ Well, you’re high risk” No, I’m fucking not. First of all, my kidneys don’t work. So? Kidneys don’t filter viruses dipshit.

Secondly, you say “ high risk” I say fucking indestructible. I’ve already survived shit that would kill others a dozen times. So fuck off with that shit.

my grandpa was discussing yesterday at the VA clinic, this elderly Vietnam veteran was bitching about how he is expected to be terrified of this and was ranting how he in fact survived Cholera over in Vietnam so this is small stuff to him. Kind of made me laugh and put our terror into perspective a bit.

Just kinda saying too, people like you who are saying things like this sort of help my anxiety about it. It really does put some things in perspective.

 

[Maou]

Trump signs $8.3B coronavirus spending bill: '''It’s an unforeseen problem''' | Fox News

Trump just signed an 8b$ bill to fight the Corona virus.

 

[Virtual ghost]

The cases are stating to pop around neighboring countries.
Plus I was in the complex where local quarantine is organized.

 

[highlander]

Ok so I am am enneagram 6 preparing for catastrophe at all times. I am in a high risk group due to serious asthma and to a lesser extent due to age. Anyone want to take this over If meet my demise .

Send details via PM and let me know why you would be a good candidate. I will leave a legacy of reasonable financial support.
I know it is all very unlikely but best to be prepared

 

[SearchingforPeace]

University of Washington and Stanford cancel in person classes. SXSW canceled.

I suspect everything will be closed soon, for a few weeks. We already made plans to work from home at my work. It will cause some issues.

 

[21%]

I'm glad that people in the US is starting to take this seriously. Might be too late, but better now than later.