Trump's Got The Pleurisy

[Lark]

I haven't had a cold or flu in over 5 years. I've mentioned this many times. There are recent studies of Vitamin D and coronavirus that have been published in the past month that show a 53% reduction in ICU admittance in those people who take Vitamin D and still our public health officials refuse to encourage Vitamin D use.



Sure it does. Very early on in March, there was a French study that showed the coronavirus RNA load drop when 40 patients were given HCQ. I even posted the graph. If you have clinical data of this sort, you really don't need a double blind study. The people running our health agencies are all bought and paid for by the drug companies who are only interested in vaccines.

Why would you not need a double blind study? Also can I see your evidence? I dont simply mean a graph, like nice and all as those things can be there's a reason why people say lies, damn lies and statistics so the source matters.

 

[Lark]

Here's what the other side doesn't understand about Trump supporters. I'm not just supporting the individual. I'm opposing all the leftist crap like rioting, looting, murder, defunding the police, sign stealing, cancel culture, and the $97 trillion New Green Deal garbage that Biden and the Democrats support. I would vote for a cardboard cut-out of Reagan over any Democrat because I'm sure cardboard Reagan would do a better job.

Just this morning, someone violently shoved actor Rick Moranis in New York's Central Park, sending him to the hospital. I can assure you the asshole who did this wasn't a libertarian.

How would you know that? It sounds like you're still professing this weird all that is good is "us", all that I dislike, whatever it may be, is "them".

Tellenbach I dont think most of the Trump support base are lending him support simply because he is the lesser of two evils or they dont much like the democrats. The guy has a personality cult going and I'm also surprised that a libertarian would not be in favour of defunding public services, surely private security and the right to bare arms would be sufficient to fight crime? What's crime anyway besides later day prohibition of business enterprise? I'm just telling it like the libertarians do.

 

[Jaguar]

Here's what the other side doesn't understand about Trump supporters.

As if there are merely two sides. There are whacked out Libertarians who think they should be "free" to walk into a restaurant and shit on the floor. No one is going to make them use a toilet. No siree, Bob. They want their freedumb. And many of those people are Trump supporters.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

The ones in my family or that I have been close to emotionally in the past are people I genuinely like(d), but I would say the ones I know can tend to be abstract to the point of not being 100% grounded in reality. The ones I'm close to have extremely unrealistic notions of reality and interestingly enough tend to mooch off of others financially (but I think that's a random correlation). That last point is related to their inability to identify everything going on in reality, all the practical cause-and-effects. Most have a parent who is extremely manipulative and even emotionally viscous with whom they have a strained relationship. In one case I think his connection to Trump resolves his father issues who happens to be very similar to Trump. They also all happen to live most of their lives in video games, so are a bit reality optional. They also have pockets of deep personal anger that either gets compartmentalized or pushed into the subconscious.

Interesting. The financial aspect applies with him, but he also really does not get along with his dad. I wouldn't call him manipulative from what I've seen, but they get into fights all the time... and this was the case even when my cousin was a child. I would certainly call the relationship strained.

It's too bad because I used to relate to him ( I think he might actually be an NTP type), but I think he's slid more and more into wishing it was the past and conspiracy theories. One time at a family gathering (this was before Trump was President) he started going on about the U.N as a powerful (lol) malevolent organization. I knew that was a thing common among conspiracy types, particularly those on the right. I also knew he was into Infowars. (That's the alternative reality thing).

I kind of just seem him as really gullible now.

 

[FemMecha]

Here's what the other side doesn't understand about Trump supporters. I'm not just supporting the individual. I'm opposing all the leftist crap like rioting, looting, murder, defunding the police, sign stealing, cancel culture, and the $97 trillion New Green Deal garbage that Biden and the Democrats support. I would vote for a cardboard cut-out of Reagan over any Democrat because I'm sure cardboard Reagan would do a better job. Just this morning, someone violently shoved actor Rick Moranis in New York's Central Park, sending him to the hospital. I can assure you the asshole who did this wasn't a libertarian.

I can appreciate wanting to condemn the riots.
Why support Trump when he refuses to condemn the very groups responsible for the majority of the violence and destruction? He has his boys standing by to provide the coordinated effort again. I wish you could vote for a cardboard cutout if Reagan because that wouldn't perpetuate the violence you condemn. Trump will.

 

[The Cat]

 

[Lark]

As if there are merely two sides. There are whacked out Libertarians who think they should be "free" to walk into a restaurant and shit on the floor. No one is going to make them use a toilet. No siree, Bob. They want their freedumb. And many of those people are Trump supporters.

I've always wondered about qualifying what libertarian means but it seems to mean whatever libertarians want it to mean most of the time.

Like D A De Santillan, who's a great writer, one of the few to write about the sort of economy and society the syndicalists and anarchists wanted to create in spain wrote in "After The Revolution" that idiots (or was it morons?) could not be anarchists, in context he was obviously talking about people with learning disabilities (dated language much) but his point was that he thought to be an anarchist you had to have a certain capacity for self-government. Which a lot of people calling themselves libertarians seem to lack.

I still think a lot of the pandemic advise that libertarians have been putting about, including Trump, and definitely the anti-maskers has been some kind of social darwinist or malthusian ploy. Kill off as many people who're not able to "get it", or understand the basics of disease transmission despite all the distortion, as possible.

All my life the people I've met who were unambiguous fascists and nazi supporters have always struck me as those most likely to be up against the wall and shot on day one of the fascist take over.

 

[Lark]

I can appreciate wanting to condemn the riots.
Why support Trump when he refuses to condemn the very groups responsible for the majority of the violence and destruction? He has his boys standing by to provide the coordinated effort again. I wish you could vote for a cardboard cutout if Reagan because that wouldn't perpetuate the violence you condemn. Trump will.

I've no problem condemning rioting, hell, I'd even condemn demonstrating at the moment because of the pandemic.

Again, disease transmission could give a shit about anyones politics.

Although, besides the pandemic, I dont think those things are good ideas anyway. I'm a socialist and hate all varieties of anti-social behaviour and since demonstrations or rioting or disorder will never, ever actually threaten any regime or status quo that's all it is anti-social behaviour.

Demos are just like holding a gig, or a sit ins like Occupy, or whatever, they're strategically and tactically pointless and a big fat waste of time. Achieve nothing. Better not to waste time, money, resources that way and do something that matters. Which I'm willing to bet is likely to way too dull for any hot heads to be interested in actually getting involved in.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

What is Trump's support base "at its best"?

I don't know how often you catch conversations on my political-ish Fb posts, but I have a Trumpublican highschool friend who chimes in somewhat often - in my experience, that's "at its best." He can be a blowhard at times, enough that other highschool friends (in private, ha ha) have said they won't engage him because it's too infuriating. But I've noticed that because I make an effort to regularly establish goodwill he's actually kinda toned down with me. I hotly disagree with a lot of what he says, but at least it resembles dialogue (which is more than I can say about anything found in this forum). So if you catch a Trump supporter commenting on my posts, that's probably what I consider "as good as it gets." I do have worse ones on my Fb list, but when someone consistently demonstrates they aren't capable of more than co-mingling echo chambers (and usually pejorative ones at that), I block my posts from them.

There's an ongoing joke amongst my hs friends that you can deliver a harsh response so long as it's prefaced with something like "You're a handsome and intelligent man, *and*...." It goes a surprisingly long way.

 

[FemMecha]

I've no problem condemning rioting, hell, I'd even condemn demonstrating at the moment because of the pandemic.

Again, disease transmission could give a shit about anyones politics.

Although, besides the pandemic, I dont think those things are good ideas anyway. I'm a socialist and hate all varieties of anti-social behaviour and since demonstrations or rioting or disorder will never, ever actually threaten any regime or status quo that's all it is anti-social behaviour.

Demos are just like holding a gig, or a sit ins like Occupy, or whatever, they're strategically and tactically pointless and a big fat waste of time. Achieve nothing. Better not to waste time, money, resources that way and do something that matters. Which I'm willing to bet is likely to way too dull for any hot heads to be interested in actually getting involved in.

I can see some of what you are saying, although I don't personally have a position or judgment on protests and gatherings. It sometimes seems to help groups get something they want or need.

The protests and riots that happened in the U.S. are an extremely complex mix of moral actions that I could never hope to summarize into a single position. I can sympathize with a notion of condemning violence, but it is important to point out just how much of that violence was coming from White Supremecist militia groups. Many small and minority owned businesses were ransacked. People of all races and motivations participated and each one should be judged individually.

I feel the main issue with addressing the question of Black Lives Matter movement committing acts of violence in the riots is that society must acknowledge and own up to the Tulsa Race Massacre and other acts of societal violence directed at the Black community over the years before piously condemning the actions of violence that were from minority individuals protesting in anger the murder of George Floyd and other incidences. When I say I can appreciate condemning riots, it is not my intention to dismiss the years of violence directed at minorities and how that could cause actual psychological triggers of rage and violence.

Society does need to have consistent laws and whoever break these should receive the same punishments (opens up an entirely new discussion as it applies to race), so I can see it being problematic to say it's okay if this person breaks a window and steals something and no okay if this other person does it. The main issue I see in judging these actions is that even if both break the law, one can apply effort to understand why it happened. Did one respond to years of oppression and frustration? Did one just see a great opportunity to get more video games? Did one target a minority business on purpose? Did one target a large corporation who has been cheating them with underpay driving them to food stamps?

It isn't my job to pass final and accurate judgment on each individual who participated, whether peaceably or with violence. It is my job to understand why such a thing happened and the different kinds of motivations that went into it. It is my job to respond to acts of frustration from years of racial oppression by acknowledging the reality of that oppression and learning about it on a deeper level, so it is part of my consciousness as well.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Just adding for shittles, I just watched last night's SNL (because Chris Rock hosted) and one of the current SNL News guys said something apt. "If the shoe was on the other foot, Trump would go to his rally tonight and make fun of what Biden would look like on a respirator. And his base would love it and cheer him on."

 

[Vendrah]

The ones in my family or that I have been close to emotionally in the past are people I genuinely like(d), but I would say the ones I know can tend to be abstract to the point of not being 100% grounded in reality. The ones I'm close to have extremely unrealistic notions of reality and interestingly enough tend to mooch off of others financially (but I think that's a random correlation). That last point is related to their inability to identify everything going on in reality, all the practical cause-and-effects. Most have a parent who is extremely manipulative and even emotionally viscous with whom they have a strained relationship. In one case I think his connection to Trump resolves his father issues who happens to be very similar to Trump. They also all happen to live most of their lives in video games, so are a bit reality optional. They also have pockets of deep personal anger that either gets compartmentalized or pushed into the subconscious.

One will post these horrifically racist posts that disparage a racial group who is horribly oppressed as though they are liars and oppressors, but then comes back with these "lets all have peace and love in the world" extremely idealistic philosophical notions, so he is deeply compartmentalized and dichotomous. Another is also deeply dichotomous psychologically strongly pushing a personalized moral agenda for medical research, but readily has enough rage to want anyone or system destroyed who threatens something he values. Another one is quiet and reasonable, but surrounded by Trump supporters environmentally. He feels quite beat down by life and so doesn't trust the societal measures to re-establish racial equality.

I think in each case of the ones that I know, they feel cheated and betrayed by life, suppressed and not heard. but also have quite a bit of privilege and advantage. They have a lot of anger, but it is not fully processed consciously. I think they see Trump as being bullied, capable of saying the wrong thing socially like them, being angry like them, being beat down in certain ways like them, and they don't have direct empathy or contact with the demographics that Trump suppresses, so they block out the bad stuff he does and says and instead they identify with him as socially off, bullied, and fighting for dominance in ways that no one is acknowledging feels lost to them.

I am a gamer (actually, used to), I feel cheated and betrayed by life, I am indeed suppressed and not heard in my RL. I am sometimes angered too.
None of that made me a Bolsonaro (Tropical "Trump", lets say) supporter. The opposite actually, it is exactly why I feel cheated, betrayed that I dont like neoliberalism. I am sort of being suppressed and not heard because I dont have a "successful career/financial life". These just pile up reason for me to be more anti-tropical Trump then to be a tropical Trump supporter, so I really think you got the point wrong here - perhaps them supporting Trump doesnt have much to do with it.

Magical thinking does relate to intuition, but paranoia doesnt.
It is not a matter of liking games or fictional stuff at all; Its not about liking or being driven by the "real life" or not; Its about knowing the differences between fiction and real life and knowing how to separate these.

 

[Jaguar]

Just adding for shittles, I just watched last night's SNL (because Chris Rock hosted) and one of the current SNL News guys said something apt. "If the shoe was on the other foot, Trump would go to his rally tonight and make fun of what Biden would look like on a respirator. And his base would love it and cheer him on."

I watched that last night. When he said it, I thought he was right on the money.

 

[Jaguar]

Trump makes surprise visit outside Walter Reed? Oh, give me a break. This isn't a presidency, it's a frigging TV show looking for ratings.

 

[FemMecha]

I am a gamer (actually, used to), I feel cheated and betrayed by life, I am indeed suppressed and not heard in my RL. I am sometimes angered too.
None of that made me a Bolsonaro (Tropical "Trump", lets say) supporter. The opposite actually, it is exactly why I feel cheated, betrayed that I dont like neoliberalism. I am sort of being suppressed and not heard because I dont have a "successful career/financial life". These just pile up reason for me to be more anti-tropical Trump then to be a tropical Trump supporter, so I really think you got the point wrong here - perhaps them supporting Trump doesnt have much to do with it.

Magical thinking does relate to intuition, but paranoia doesnt.
It is not a matter of liking games or fictional stuff at all; Its not about liking or being driven by the "real life" or not; Its about knowing the differences between fiction and real life and knowing how to separate these.

My descriptions were not meant as a neat and clean correlation. People can have exactly the same inputs with different outcomes, and people with very different inputs can arrive at the same conclusion.

It would make for an extremely sloppy debate to correlate all gamers with Trump supporters. I was merely describing the people I know who happen to support Trump. Some of it was random descriptions, some might support the capacity to process his inconsistencies and reality optional statements. Also, I think his socialization can appeal to people who have some anger issues, feel bullied, socially off, etc.

Take what I said as an extremely 'soft' correlations, if any. I'm just describing people I know and like who support Trump, what they are like and soft guesses at how that might correlate for them individually.

I think a heated debate that puts hard boundaries and assumptions on these traits would prove absurd.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Trump makes surprise visit outside Walter Reed? Oh, give me a break. This isn't a presidency, it's a frigging TV show looking for ratings.

That handwave seemed very labored to me. Maybe that's standard for politicians in motorcades, though?

 

[ceecee]

Trump makes surprise visit outside Walter Reed? Oh, give me a break. This isn't a presidency, it's a frigging TV show looking for ratings.

For all the corporate media, not just FOX. I don't expect right wing media to ever live up to journalist standards since they never have but this is the reason people hate the liberal media. For joining in on this shit and not reporting anything important. Trump is only out pulling this stupid shit because they will report it. This is simply another campaign stop for him.

 

[Jaguar]

That handwave seemed very labored to me.

Sure it was.

 

[ceecee]

That handwave seemed very labored to me. Maybe that's standard for politicians in motorcades, though?

I'm sure he gave tons of thought to the lives of the Secret Service agents in that bulletproof, sealed up like a drum truck too.

 

[Jaguar]

Ana Cabrera is getting gaslighted by fat fuck Jason Miller on CNN right now. What a piece of shit.