Trump's Got The Pleurisy

[Z Buck McFate]

Yeah. It’s clear you have a clue about the dark underbelly of human nature, especially some of the people here pretending to be in any way above the moral development of a sociopathic child. But do carry on.

Let me see if I've got this straight: you're here to vent with airs of moral superiority about other people venting with airs of moral superiority? What do you get out of occasionally visiting these threads and dropping vitriol like this? There are a lot of us venting about shitty things happening in our country, and we vent because venting serves a purpose - which you clearly understand, because you're doing it yourself. But in your case, it seems like it should be easy enough to just not open the threads or read the posts that trigger you. Sadly, we can't avoid the shitty things happening in our country as easily as you can avoid these threads. So why do you do it?

I mean, if you have insight to offer, by all means offer it. But if you're here to throw generic morally superior vitriol at what you perceive to be morally superior vitriol, what do you get out of that?

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I do take your point but short hand of this kind is something I hate.

Like I hate it when in the UK they talk about things being "free" or paid for by the "state" or "government", they arent "free", nothing is, and the state and government dont pay for anything, its paid for by the tax payer or public spending but its all part of the same mis-speaking.

We do very much have the same problem here. People get rich off of labor provided by (others in) an infrastructure that they want to be able to take for granted - and GOP language revolves around reinforcing the ability to take it for granted. Progressives insisting people/corporations put funds back into an infrastructure they're taking for granted = people wanting "free stuff." I do think progressives need to work harder on their message. (For example, it would not have been that difficult for Bernie to emphasize what aspects of capitalism he had no intention of touching - to ameliorate histrionic fears of *socialism* - but he just couldn't see the fears enough to know it's what people needed to hear. And stuff.)

 

[ceecee]

Dude, most of us have Trump supporters in our families. I do for sure. Your assertion that they don't really "know" Trump supporters is incorrect. My cousin supports Trump and he's a college dropout with no job and no prospects who has been living with his parents for the past 10 years. He got deep in the Alex Jones shit and I suspect that was his pipeline.

I haven't seen him in a while, so I don't know if he is still a Trump supporter this time around.

Oh wait. We're just suppose to listen to the Trump supporters? They're not all bigots or heartily support policies that are offensive to the human race?

Hold on, let's listen...

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I also dont understand the amount of licence the so called GOP and conservatives in the US permit him when they were so vociferous about seeing Bill Clinton removed from office, largely because of his personal life/misconduct.

The hypocrisy is mind-boggling. I mean, there are pundits on Fox suggesting that Biden should do 'the right thing' and stop campaigning while Trump is in the hospital. Not only did Trump not stop campaigning when Hilary got sick - he used it, and basically went with a "people who are weak enough to get sick can't be leaders" message. If Biden were the one who got infected, there's no way Trump wouldn't be milking it for everything he could - and he'd be compounding it with the usual pathological lies. "A lot of really smart people are saying that people never really entirely cognitively recover from this virus. The best experts in the field are saying this. Sleepy Joe is going to be even more demented when he wakes up!" (Except he wouldn't be saying it as succinctly or in full sentences).

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Dude, most of us have Trump supporters in our families. I do for sure. Your assertion that they don't really "know" Trump supporters is incorrect. My cousin supports Trump and he's a college dropout with no job and no prospects who has been living with his parents for the past 10 years. He got deep in the Alex Jones shit and I suspect that was his pipeline.

I haven't seen him in a while, so I don't know if he is still a Trump supporter this time around.

Yeah, I posted something on my wall on Facebook about just not having it in me to feel bad for the president, I even said “I wish I could” and had a trump supporter uncle jump on me.

Not to mention, I personally know tons of trump supporters in our town. Shit, we have friends who we hang out with every few months who are trump supporters.

A few months back, in a Facebook group for our local community, people were posting a bunch of pro Trump propaganda. When I went to argue with them, I was accused of being a left wing operative by at least 2 of these people. Lots of insults were thrown my way just for disagreeing and asking why political propaganda was being shared in a neighborhood community and crime awareness group. “Marxist filth” was directed at me, lol

So when I talk about Trump supporters, I’m primarily thinking of the ones I’ve had direct contact with, some in my own family and circle of friends.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Oh nice. I was wondering where all the unbalanced people had gone. I love the whole 2/3rd of post being “i am such a good person and i dont wish someone i dont like dead just because i dont like him BUT *input actual thoughts of wanting ppl dead just because u personally don’t like them*. Slow clap people, slow clap.

Understand that politicians are in a position of power, and so the relationship a citizen has to a leader is one of allegiance, submission, acceptance, or rebellion, and not friendship. 'Like' or 'dislike' are irrelevant concepts between citizen and leader, but only whether one obeys, accepts, or rebels in relationship to that leader. I don't think any of us here have beers with Trump, chat about sport teams, talk about our feelings, ask his advice about our new boyfriend, or knit him socks. People are thinking more in terms of the level of harm or help a leader enacts on a civilization. His dismissive COVID-19 policies have resulted in the deaths of some number of individuals that would be alive today if the scientists had been allowed to advise policy. Maybe someone in this thread is related to one of these deceased individuals. Every decision the president makes impacts the lives of people in positive or negative ways that can include life and death of the citizens.

Yeah. It’s clear you have a clue about the dark underbelly of human nature, especially some of the people here pretending to be in any way above the moral development of a sociopathic child. But do carry on.

Sociopathic children hurt pets and their younger siblings. Maybe there is a sociopathic child out there that wishes the president was dead or is even out there planning an assassination because they reject his ideology as causing great harm to humanity, but I haven't become aware of such a child yet.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Just out of curiosity, has any single person here said that all Trumpublicans are as bad as the worst examples?

For my part, I think there are enough "worst examples" to cause serious problems. I think this because there have already been serious problems caused by there being enough zealot "worst examples" around. This perception is informed by intelligence reports from the FBI and DHS, finding the extremist right responsible for a significant amount of the protesting-turned-rioting and claiming there is a legit extremist right terrorist threat in this country.

I do not worry about the Trumpublicans I know joining these rogue vigilante gangs. But just the same, according to the FBI and DHS, there are enough rogue vigilante gangs around for concerns about it to be valid.

 

[Jaguar]

I'm a mixture of liberal and conservative values, which should be plain to see for anyone whose read any of my posts. Just like it's plain to see that you're a deeply entrenched dogmatic leftist. If you were a Republican during the Bush administration, you were a republican when they were trying to get Creationism taught in schools. Now you're with the people who advocate for Leftist Religion to be taught in schools via Critical Race theory, so it doesn't look like you really changed much.

No, it isn't plain to see in your posts since you are constantly berating the left. Obsessively, in fact. It's like a fly buzzing in a room, and I have to snap the fucker with a towel until it falls to the floor.

As far as religion taught in school is concerned - I prefer religion be kept out of public school and out of all government. Period. I've held that position my entire life even before I was old enough to vote, and it's not going to change. Read Reagan appointee Justice Sandra Day O'Connor's vote-deciding cases. I run close with many of her decisions. Thats why to this day, she's still my favorite judge. She was smart as a whip, demanding, a wicked independent streak, and known by her peers for fairness. I'm sure that pissed off a few of her fellow Republicans to the right of her, more than once. You have no idea what it means to be a moderate since you appear to have a brain blockage of sorts which leaves you with the unfortunate result of seeing only two extreme sides to everything - not realizing there are other possibilities.

Absence of a hard right position does not make one a leftist. For anyone to think it does, I'll happily call them a moron to their face.

We should carve out a section of the forum just for you. That way you could plug people into your imaginary groups all day long for kicks, while the rest of us discuss our individual points of view without having to deal with juvenile behavior. For some odd reason, you're more interested in groups of people than actually discussing the pros and cons of individual issues. Ceecee is clearly to the left of me. She knows it. I know it. But do you ever see her screaming at me for being a former Republican? No. It's pointless. She's looking at my positions, not what group I may—or may not—belong to. Although she has posted a tiny bit of snark about moderates in general, it was not directed at me per se.

If you can't discuss politics without obsessively shoving people into groups and making inaccurate claims about them, seriously, get the fuck out of the politics forum because what you're doing is wasting time. Accuracy isn't your strong suit, nor do you strive for it.

 

[Lark]

The hypocrisy is mind-boggling. I mean, there are pundits on Fox suggesting that Biden should do 'the right thing' and stop campaigning while Trump is in the hospital. Not only did Trump not stop campaigning when Hilary got sick - he used it, and basically went with a "people who are weak enough to get sick can't be leaders" message. If Biden were the one who got infected, there's no way Trump wouldn't be milking it for everything he could - and he'd be compounding it with the usual pathological lies. "A lot of really smart people are saying that people never really entirely cognitively recover from this virus. The best experts in the field are saying this. Sleepy Joe is going to be even more demented when he wakes up!" (Except he wouldn't be saying it as succinctly or in full sentences).

Yeah, the coverage of the debate here had a lot of people in bars talking about Biden's "dementia". I know what you mean and in some ways I think its a consequence of such a large body of people who believe in conspiracy theories and a sort of secret total war going on.

That's what you honestly, truly believe then there's nothing to it but a kind of no holds barred fight to the death.

That is not what democracy and democratic contest was meant to be, like there is the whole "easier succession" than changing the head of state in a monarchy (war of the roses style BS) but besides that democracy was always mean to recommend itself as it was not total war, it was at worst to be limited war, limited politics, limited public life, THE alternative to totalitarianism in some shape or other.

There's supposed to be a sort of consensus in political democracies, Clinton and Blair even kind of tried to build a new post-Reagan/Thatcher one by ditching distribution/redistribution, embracing LGBT as the "brand difference", adopting a lot of conservative policy and foreign policy, but it didnt matter. I mean, I'm not a fan but most people seemed to like, or at least vote for, moderate conservatism in the neo-liberal mold.

The central lesson in Lord of War was "Dont go to war with yourself", the nations that did would always be playing second fiddle to those that did (also probably buying weapons from them).

I still think a lot of these things are a result of a sort of cultural malaise unique to the US, the debate reminded me a lot of the trash talking in wrestling, even the thumbs up and wink at the finish which, to the cynical parts of the population is going to mean that everything is phony anyway. Plus the sort of fuedal way that privilege works in the US, the legacies who just get richer and richer and have less and less in common with mainstreet, everyone else getting excluded with less and less of a stake in things, no one at all articulating that within the mainstream and the vacum getting filled by ID politics instead.

 

[Tellenbach]

It's not a big deal. If you take HCQ and zinc early on, you're very unlikely to die. Most of the deaths are caused by doctors, hospital administrators, and politicians who discouraged the use of HCQ.

 

[Lark]

Just out of curiosity, has any single person here said that all Trumpublicans are as bad as the worst examples?

For my part, I think there are enough "worst examples" to cause serious problems. I think this because there have already been serious problems caused by there being enough zealot "worst examples" around. This perception is informed by intelligence reports from the FBI and DHS, finding the extremist right responsible for a significant amount of the protesting-turned-rioting and claiming there is a legit extremist right terrorist threat in this country.

I do not worry about the Trumpublicans I know joining these rogue vigilante gangs. But just the same, according to the FBI and DHS, there are enough rogue vigilante gangs around for concerns about it to be valid.

The only thing I would say is that if these are some how examples of Trump's support base "at its worst", I do not know of any other or alternative support base.

What is Trump's support base "at its best"?

Like I have no common ground with Reagan-Thatcher but I could read Freidman and Hayek, if only to disagree, and I could see why some people found them persuasive. I honestly can not say that about Trump. The most I could say is that it could be a clever "establishment" trick, a bit of "stage management" to control "animal spirits". Or maybe even an attempt to fully uncover the "vast right wing" conspiracy that's been building in the US for years with foreign money sponsorship. Honestly though, thinking that way is more like an episode of 24 than it is like real life.

Globally, I see a lot of conservatives who are out of luck, out of steam, out of ideas, all the things they did to mask their money making rackets and day light robbery while they did their lines of coke with call girls are done. Although, like any other time in history this happened, the alternatives have been caught napping.

 

[Vendrah]

Non-US people reading this thread:

 

[Lark]

It's not a big deal. If you take HCQ and zinc early on, you're very unlikely to die. Most of the deaths are caused by doctors, hospital administrators, and politicians who discouraged the use of HCQ.

I know you believe this, I really hope you dont catch it as it will be too late to realize you been lied to by then.

 

[Jaguar]

It's not a big deal. If you take HCQ and zinc early on, you're very unlikely to die.

Should those two be administered and the person doesn't die in no way proves it's what kept them alive.

Most of the deaths are caused by doctors, hospital administrators, and politicians who discouraged the use of HCQ.

A silly and unproven claim.

 

[anticlimatic]

Yes, I find it difficult to take former Republicans seriously. Just looking back at some of the past draconian measures past elected republicans had supported or endorsed....makes me wonder why some of these republican voters turned a cheek then but suddenly want to pretend to be best buds with the identitarian left. It reeks of a desperate move to rewrite their own histories. They know the Trump ship is sinking, so they're scattering like rats, and the closest floating, dry thing to swim to is the ship of neoliberalism.

I'm not so sure it's sinking, for good or for ill. I mean we will find out in a month or two for sure, so it doesn't really need to be debated. It's very possible I've finally lost touch with the macro zeitgeist, but something tells me a repeat of 2016- despite everything we are being told, that I don't trust for a second- is on the way, only worse.

It's definitely the Trump stigma they are trying to avoid, and the left has always been the party of education and science, so for people that value such things strongly- as well as valuing their own images- Trump presents a great excuse to segue into that self revering demographic. The problem is that they don't realize the 21st century left is not the 20th century left they remember, and rather than being the party of science and education it's now more or less an exclusionary hate group pretending to be an anti-exclusionary anti-hate group, packed full of good people who understandably want to be on the side of "good," walling themselves off from traditionally liberal ideological demographics like free speech, individual rights, and equality of opportunity. These demographics are now sliding to the right, having been ostracized, while the left grows through authoritarian pressure and media/academic/social manipulation.

Despite claims that it's Trump who is lying to and manipulating people to his cause, the fact that people who like freedom of speech and freedom of thought gravitate towards him rebukes that idea entirely. I think he has more support now than he did in 2016, which is why I don't understand why polls have him trailing.

 

[Jaguar]

Dude, most of us have Trump supporters in our families. I do for sure.

How unfortunate.

 

[Tellenbach]

I know you believe this, I really hope you dont catch it as it will be too late to realize you been lied to by then.

I haven't had a cold or flu in over 5 years. I've mentioned this many times. There are recent studies of Vitamin D and coronavirus that have been published in the past month that show a 53% reduction in ICU admittance in those people who take Vitamin D and still our public health officials refuse to encourage Vitamin D use.

Should those two be administered and the person doesn't die in no way proves it's what kept them alive.

Sure it does. Very early on in March, there was a French study that showed the coronavirus RNA load drop when 40 patients were given HCQ. I even posted the graph. If you have clinical data of this sort, you really don't need a double blind study. The people running our health agencies are all bought and paid for by the drug companies who are only interested in vaccines.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Dude, most of us have Trump supporters in our families. I do for sure. Your assertion that they don't really "know" Trump supporters is incorrect. My cousin supports Trump and he's a college dropout with no job and no prospects who has been living with his parents for the past 10 years. He got deep in the Alex Jones shit and I suspect that was his pipeline.

I haven't seen him in a while, so I don't know if he is still a Trump supporter this time around.

The ones in my family or that I have been close to emotionally in the past are people I genuinely like(d), but I would say the ones I know can tend to be abstract to the point of not being 100% grounded in reality. The ones I'm close to have extremely unrealistic notions of reality and interestingly enough tend to mooch off of others financially (but I think that's a random correlation). That last point is related to their inability to identify everything going on in reality, all the practical cause-and-effects. Most have a parent who is extremely manipulative and even emotionally viscous with whom they have a strained relationship. In one case I think his connection to Trump resolves his father issues who happens to be very similar to Trump. They also all happen to live most of their lives in video games, so are a bit reality optional. They also have pockets of deep personal anger that either gets compartmentalized or pushed into the subconscious.

One will post these horrifically racist posts that disparage a racial group who is horribly oppressed as though they are liars and oppressors, but then comes back with these "lets all have peace and love in the world" extremely idealistic philosophical notions, so he is deeply compartmentalized and dichotomous. Another is also deeply dichotomous psychologically strongly pushing a personalized moral agenda for medical research, but readily has enough rage to want anyone or system destroyed who threatens something he values. Another one is quiet and reasonable, but surrounded by Trump supporters environmentally. He feels quite beat down by life and so doesn't trust the societal measures to re-establish racial equality.

I think in each case of the ones that I know, they feel cheated and betrayed by life, suppressed and not heard. but also have quite a bit of privilege and advantage. They have a lot of anger, but it is not fully processed consciously. I think they see Trump as being bullied, capable of saying the wrong thing socially like them, being angry like them, being beat down in certain ways like them, and they don't have direct empathy or contact with the demographics that Trump suppresses, so they block out the bad stuff he does and says and instead they identify with him as socially off, bullied, and fighting for dominance in ways that no one is acknowledging feels lost to them.

 

[Tellenbach]

Here's what the other side doesn't understand about Trump supporters. I'm not just supporting the individual. I'm opposing all the leftist crap like rioting, looting, murder, defunding the police, sign stealing, cancel culture, and the $97 trillion New Green Deal garbage that Biden and the Democrats support. I would vote for a cardboard cut-out of Reagan over any Democrat because I'm sure cardboard Reagan would do a better job.

Just this morning, someone violently shoved actor Rick Moranis in New York's Central Park, sending him to the hospital. I can assure you the asshole who did this wasn't a libertarian.

 

[Lark]

I haven't had a cold or flu in over 5 years. I've mentioned this many times. There are recent studies of Vitamin D and coronavirus that have been published in the past month that show a 53% reduction in ICU admittance in those people who take Vitamin D and still our public health officials refuse to encourage Vitamin D use.



Sure it does. Very early on in March, there was a French study that showed the coronavirus RNA load drop when 40 patients were given HCQ. I even posted the graph. If you have clinical data of this sort, you really don't need a double blind study. The people running our health agencies are all bought and paid for by the drug companies who are only interested in vaccines.

I've not sure that answer to a world wide pandemic is to get more sun Tellenbach, there's a reason that you'll hear one thing from official channels and not the narrative you're pushing here. Good hear that you're in good health, I really would not bet my life on what you're posting here and I hope you arent going to either.