Coronavirus

[Z Buck McFate]

Also, we are riding the exponential curve up with COVID-19. You don't have your final numbers. The whole point is attempting to prevent the numbers that would naturally occur without precautions.

Really good point. Not taking invasive action on diabetes won't cause exponential growth.

 

[FemMecha]

I don't know about the rest of the world but the recent politics in America, especially relating to the pandemic, has revealed the extreme extent that many people just twist the living fuck out of reality, distort facts, make deliberately false correlations, rip reality to shreds to satisfy pet beliefs with no regard to science, logic, or reasoning. Has the education system really failed that abysmally in this country? People I thought were intelligent are revealing levels of mental absurdities for which there is no excuse. This overt use of rhetorical manipulation with complete disregard of observable facts has to stop. It has to stop.

 

[JAVO]

Diabetes is not a contagious disease. If you think society should promote more healthful living and take out the fast food industry, I won't argue with that position. Maybe we should. Maybe those economic consequences would be well worth it. I'm not against the notion. You can make similar cases for heart disease and cancer. The issue is also that if a person chooses to eat a cheese burger, its negative effects do not influence the person within six feet of them. Unhealthy choices have devastating effects and there should be healthful living campaigns, but there is more autonomy of choice and outcome than in a pandemic.

A better comparison to COVID-19 for community health concerns is cigarette smoking. The people who were addicted to nicotine and needed their fix to function during work hours were eventually not allowed because second hand smoke extended the effects of their personal choice to their neighbor. As a result there was a governmental campaign to eliminate cigarette smoking in public places. That infringed on the "rights" of smokers, but was done to protect the choices and rights of non-smokers. That is your issue that is comparable because it involved shared air.

Why do you think the entire world has responded to COVID-19 differently than diabetes? Countries from hard core communist to socialist, to capitalist, to fascist. What could possibly cause every type of political governing system to respond to COVID-19 with some sort of measures? Coincidence? Science?

Also, we are riding the exponential curve up with COVID-19. You don't have your final numbers. The whole point is attempting to prevent the numbers that would naturally occur without precautions.

This needlessly fixates on the transmission method and sidesteps the point that diabetes is an equally deadly and widespread disease. And, a public and extreme government response would be extremely beneficial in reducing its impact given that they can control many of the risk factors directly with fairly minimal impact to the way of life and the economy.

Why do you think the entire world has responded to diabetes differently than COVID-19? Countries from hard core communist to socialist, to capitalist, to fascist. What could possibly cause every type of political governing system to avoid responding to diabetes? Coincidence? Greed?

 

[Vendrah]

I don't know about the rest of the world but the recent politics in America, especially relating to the pandemic, has revealed the extreme extent that many people just twist the living fuck out of reality, distort facts, make deliberately false correlations, rip reality to shreds to satisfy pet beliefs with no regard to science, logic, or reasoning. Has the education system really failed that abysmally in this country? People I thought were intelligent are revealing levels of mental absurdities for which there is no excuse. This overt use of rhetorical manipulation with complete disregard of observable facts has to stop. It has to stop.

I think it is a combo of stupidness and lack of honesty.
Because I already saw people with some good scholarship, not actually stupid, share the same thing.
And there are the ones that are just morons lol.

 

[JAVO]

Really good point. Not taking invasive action on diabetes won't cause exponential growth.

The lifelong health impact of diabetes is much more severe and universal than COVID-19. Most people who test positive for COVID-19 get nothing more than symptoms of a common cold. That's quite the expected result since the virus is in the same family of viruses which are one of the causes of the common cold. Exponential growth is a bit speculative, and it doesn't take into account immunity. Neither does testing.

We see these numbers of "cases" being reported. In fact, it's often reported as "horrific." A "case" is whatever they want to define it as. Currently, it's generally defined as a positive test result. This means that they found some virus RNA or antigen in someone's blood or saliva. Using the antigen test, Elon Musk tested positive twice, then negative twice within the same day using the same lab and same nurse taking the sample.

So this test strategy is equally as effective if his results are representative of the accuracy:
Got COVID-19? Don't know? Just flip a coin.



But here are the key questions missing in the mainstream media reports are:

What is the actual immunity level of the population?

If the immunity level is high, does the existence of the virus in someone's body matter?


Some studies indicate that up to 60% of the population may have immunity already, speculatively due to exposure to other coronaviruses.

Covid-19: Do many people have pre-existing immunity? | The BMJ

But memory T cells are known for their ability to affect the clinical severity and susceptibility to future infection,25 and the T cell studies documenting pre-existing reactivity to SARS-CoV-2 in 20-50% of people suggest that antibodies are not the full story.

“Maybe we were a little naive to take measurements such as serology testing to look at how many people were infected with the virus,” the Karolinska Institute immunologist Marcus Buggert told The BMJ. “Maybe there is more immunity out there.”

The research offers a powerful reminder that very little in immunology is cut and dried. Physiological responses may have fewer sharp distinctions than in the popular imagination: exposure does not necessarily lead to infection, infection does not necessarily lead to disease, and disease does not necessarily produce detectable antibodies. And within the body, the roles of various immune system components are complex and interconnected. B cells produce antibodies, but B cells are regulated by T cells, and while T cells and antibodies both respond to viruses in the body, T cells do so on infected cells, whereas antibodies help prevent cells from being infected.

 

[JAVO]

Something to keep in mind when interpreting COVID-19 data as presented in the media:

(restating this here in simpler form because of its importance)

"The research offers a powerful reminder that very little in immunology is cut and dried. Physiological responses may have fewer sharp distinctions than in the popular imagination: exposure does not necessarily lead to infection, infection does not necessarily lead to disease, and disease does not necessarily produce detectable antibodies. And within the body, the roles of various immune system components are complex and interconnected. B cells produce antibodies, but B cells are regulated by T cells, and while T cells and antibodies both respond to viruses in the body, T cells do so on infected cells, whereas antibodies help prevent cells from being infected."

Edited to add: "Could pre-existing immunity be more protective than future vaccines? Without studying the question, we won’t know."

Covid-19: Do many people have pre-existing immunity? | The BMJ

 

[Red Herring]

The German medical association and the association of intensive care doctors urge the government to order hospitals to stop all non-urgent surgeries. Hospitals are fast approaching their ICU capacity limits and are especially running short on medical personnel - in a country with one of the highest (if not the highest) number of ICU beds per inhabitant in the world (more than the USA) and much lower infection numbers than the USA.

 

[Mole]

The German medical association and the association of intensive care doctors urge the government to order hospitals to stop all non-urgent surgeries. Hospitals are fast approaching their ICU capacity limits and are especially running short on medical personnel - in a country with one of the highest (if not the highest) number of ICU beds per inhabitant in the world (more than the USA) and much lower infection numbers than the USA.

Dear Red Herring, I listen to German folk music by Alpenzusjes, for three hours every second day, click Alpenzusjes - Hutje Op De Hei (Officiele Video) - YouTube. In particular the song, "The Witchs' Holiday", and I wear a German witchs' hat with a hat band in the colours of the German flag. So my heart goes out to you, particularly as my Continent, Australia, is free of the corona virus, and things are returning to normal.

We are grateful our government took early steps to rid us of the corona virus, and now we are gearing up to mass produce the vaccine for the indo-pacific region. And we look out at the world and see it is a dangerous place, and it does look like hospitals will be overwhelmed by the exponential increase in new cases, and have to chose who to save and who to let die.

 

[Red Herring]

Dear Red Herring, I listen to German folk music by Alpenzusjes, for three hours every second day, click Alpenzusjes - Hutje Op De Hei (Officiele Video) - YouTube. In particular the song, "The Witchs' Holiday", and I wear a German witchs' hat with a hat band in the colours of the German flag. So my heart goes out to you, particularly as my Continent, Australia, is free of the corona virus, and things are returning to normal.

We are grateful our government took early steps to rid us of the corona virus, and now we are gearing up to mass produce the vaccine for the indo-pacific region. And we look out at the world and see it is a dangerous place, and it does look like hospitals will be overwhelmed by the exponential increase in new cases, and have to chose who to save and who to let die.

I had never heard of them but as their name already suggests De Alpenzusjes are a Dutch duo singing in Dutch, not German. Their music is based on Tirolese schlager music (not my own taste at all, but to each their own). Tirole is a European region belonging to Austria and Italy - not Germany.

Enjoy the music anyway. These days a bit of innocent joy is more important than ever.

 

[Mole]

I had never heard of them but as their name already suggests De Alpenzusjes are a Dutch duo singing in Dutch, not German. Their music is based on Tirolese schlager music (not my own taste at all, but to each their own). Tirole is a European region belonging to Austria and Italy - not Germany.

Enjoy the music anyway. These days a bit of innocent joy is more important than ever.

Hi Herring,

What! Not German, hard to believe. Here they are giving an interview on German TV click DE ALPENZUSJES BIJ VBRO - YouTube. I think they are lovely, and I dance to their music every second day, wearing my German witch's hat. If only you could see me.

 

[Red Herring]

Hi Herring,

What! Not German, hard to believe. Here they are giving an interview on German TV click DE ALPENZUSJES BIJ VBRO - YouTube. I think they are lovely, and I dance to their music every second day, wearing my German witch's hat. If only you could see me.

That interview is in Dutch, not German. They are Dutch musicians singing in Dutch, giving an interview in Dutch to a Dutch radio station. Don't worry though, looking at it from the antipodes the languages must seem very similar.

 

[Mole]

That interview is in Dutch, not German. They are Dutch musicians singing in Dutch, giving an interview in Dutch to a Dutch radio station. Don't worry though, looking at it from the antipodes the languages must seem very similar.

Ah well, Herring, you have proved me wrong once again. Once again I am shrived, my whole ego is shriven, my only consolation is that it is good for my soul. You are, Herring, unbeknownst to your good self, a doctor of the soul. The antipodes salutes you.

 

[ceecee]

Report: 80% of Inmates in Texas Jails Who Died Of COVID Were Awaiting Trial | Kaiser Health News

Over 230 people have died from Covid-19 in Texas’s correctional facilities — and in county jails, nearly 80 percent of them were in pretrial detention and hadn’t even been convicted of a crime, according to a new report. A team of researchers at the University of Texas at Austin reviewed data from the Texas Department of Criminal Justice (TDCJ), which has reported that at least 231 people have died of Covid-19 in the state’s correctional facilities between March and October. This report only looked at state-operated prisons and county-operated jails, as researchers were focused on how Texas’s Covid-19 prison policies had fared. (Demsas, 11/12)

When people talk about ending cash bail - something like this is one of the many reasons why. If you are unfamiliar with this proposal, I truly suggest educating yourself, especially if you are a working person. Basically the state of TX simply allowed these people to die in their jails. Hope TX taxpayers are also ok funding the lawsuits that are coming.

 

[Mole]

Instead of having huge mass rallies with people from across the country, we should devote ourselves to defeating the corona virus. This means getting behind the President Elect and taking the measures to protect the public of the USA.


The best way to spread the virus is to attend mass rallies. And we know how to defeat the virus using the methods to free a whole Continent from the virus. We just don't have any more cases, while the virus is growing exponentially throughout the world.

The herd immunity approach of Sweden has failed, and denial in the USA spreads the virus, anarchy in India is spreading the virus, and the spoken cultures of Africa are seed beds for the virus. And poverty in Central and South America is spreading the virus. We all await the vaccine, but it is a huge job vaccinating the world, not helped by the anti-vaccers.

 

[JAVO]

COVID-19 antibodies were detected in patient samples from September, 2019.

SARS-CoV-2 RBD-specific antibodies were detected in 111 of 959 (11.6%) individuals, starting from September 2019 (14%), with a cluster of positive cases (>30%) in the second week of February 2020 and the highest number (53.2%) in Lombardy. This study shows an unexpected very early circulation of SARS-CoV-2 among asymptomatic individuals in Italy several months before the first patient was identified, and clarifies the onset and spread of the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic.

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class journal research

 

[FemMecha]

COVID-19 antibodies were detected in patient samples from September, 2019.



SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class journal research

This is interesting. It would be helpful to read some of the peer reviews, but this would be significant.

U.S. News cites the research in an article which states:
"Italian researchers told Reuters in March that they reported a higher than usual number of cases of severe pneumonia and flu in Lombardy in the last quarter of 2019 in a sign that the new coronavirus might have circulated earlier than previously thought.Coronavirus Emerged in Italy Earlier Than Thought, Italian Study Shows | World News | US News

So it was not-detected, but necessarily because it was not doing some damage, but it also took time for it to overwhelm the medical system. If Italy was overwhelmed by the virus by March 2020, that would be 8 months after the earliest known cases based on this research stating September 2019. The pandemic has been going on where I live for 8 months and just now our hospitals are over-run. That is a similar timeline interestingly.

 

[Red Herring]

This is interesting. It would be helpful to read some of the peer reviews, but this would be significant.

U.S. News cites the research in an article which states:
"Italian researchers told Reuters in March that they reported a higher than usual number of cases of severe pneumonia and flu in Lombardy in the last quarter of 2019 in a sign that the new coronavirus might have circulated earlier than previously thought.Coronavirus Emerged in Italy Earlier Than Thought, Italian Study Shows | World News | US News

So it was not-detected, but necessarily because it was not doing some damage, but it also took time for it to overwhelm the medical system. If Italy was overwhelmed by the virus by March 2020, that would be 8 months after the earliest known cases based on this research stating September 2019. The pandemic has been going on where I live for 8 months and just now our hospitals are over-run. That is a similar timeline interestingly.

Well, I think the way a society reacts to the pandemic has large influence on how long its hospital system will cope - just as the local medical infrastructure per inhabitant is a vital factor. However, coincidentally 8 months also seems to be about the amount of time it took us here in Germany since we are now in the middle of a second wave (clearly seperated from the first one by a long deep valley of very few infections for several months) and second sort-of-lockdown and our hospitals are either very close to or past their limits.

For easier reference: at 81 million we have roughly a quarter of the USA's population.

 

[Jaguar]

South Dakota ER nurse recalls how dying coronavirus patients spend last minutes insisting virus isn't real

 

[The Cat]

tragic. -_-

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Here's a CNN interview of that^ nurse.