Coronavirus

[Totenkindly]

The amount of scrubbing that whole place is going to need.... ew

 

[Totenkindly]

Getting back to how it’s “fascism” to force people to wear masks because of ignoring states’ rights, well… here’s my thought.

COVID does not respect state borders. Once it is in the country, it is not a state problem. We do not control (nor geographically can we really control) all the state borders. It’s not like international travel where people have to boat or fly to reach some place other than Canada or Mexico, and thus incoming and outgoing travel can be controlled to SOME degree. Once the virus is spreading inside the USA, it doesn’t care what state you are from and it can spread without regard for borders.

So this is no longer a “state” issue, there has to be some kind of uniform precaution – because our country is only as safe as its weakest link.

Case in point. My one child is pulmonary-compromised by genetics. Last year they had six separate hospital stays due to respiratory issues. (Thankfully, a new drug that hit the market in November has reduced their susceptibility this year – JUST IN TIME, thank god – but they are STILL vulnerable.)

They currently live in PA with a significant other who had gotten divorced and who shares custody of two school-age children with her ex.

Her ex and his girlfriend just went to Florida to hang out for a week or two, came back to PA… and now the girlfriend has tested positive for COVID. (Thanks, Florida.) It’s complicated more by the fact they have two young kids, who now my child and the SO have to keep custody of (it’s a good thing they didn’t go along) until the girlfriend and ex-husband are supposedly in the clear again. But they brought COVID back to the capitol PA region (more urban), plus could potentially infect my child who is already on the “more vulnerable” list and could easily be screwed up and/or killed by COVID if they have a large viral load dumped on them. Along with anyone else.

Requiring masks nationally is not “fascism,” it’s common sense – especially in light of what actual fascism could and would entail by a truly fascist government… of which we’ve seen some actual examples repeatedly in the last few years by our federal administration. Mask wearing is not one of them, and they can’t even keep themselves healthy. It's a [expletive] mask. Get over it.

 

[The Cat]

 

[ceecee]

Getting back to how it’s “fascism” to force people to wear masks because of ignoring states’ rights, well… here’s my thought.

COVID does not respect state borders. Once it is in the country, it is not a state problem. We do not control (nor geographically can we really control) all the state borders. It’s not like international travel where people have to boat or fly to reach some place other than Canada or Mexico, and thus incoming and outgoing travel can be controlled to SOME degree. Once the virus is spreading inside the USA, it doesn’t care what state you are from and it can spread without regard for borders.

So this is no longer a “state” issue, there has to be some kind of uniform precaution – because our country is only as safe as its weakest link.

Case in point. My one child is pulmonary-compromised by genetics. Last year they had six separate hospital stays due to respiratory issues. (Thankfully, a new drug that hit the market in November has reduced their susceptibility this year – JUST IN TIME, thank god – but they are STILL vulnerable.)

They currently live in PA with a significant other who had gotten divorced and who shares custody of two school-age children with her ex.

Her ex and his girlfriend just went to Florida to hang out for a week or two, came back to PA… and now the girlfriend has tested positive for COVID. (Thanks, Florida.) It’s complicated more by the fact they have two young kids, who now my child and the SO have to keep custody of (it’s a good thing they didn’t go along) until the girlfriend and ex-husband are supposedly in the clear again. But they brought COVID back to the capitol PA region (more urban), plus could potentially infect my child who is already on the “more vulnerable” list and could easily be screwed up and/or killed by COVID if they have a large viral load dumped on them. Along with anyone else.

Requiring masks nationally is not “fascism,” it’s common sense – especially in light of what actual fascism could and would entail by a truly fascist government… of which we’ve seen some actual examples repeatedly in the last few years by our federal administration. Mask wearing is not one of them, and they can’t even keep themselves healthy. It's a [expletive] mask. Get over it.

I truly don't believe conservative/right wing/Republicans can see anything beyond individuality. Individual rights, individual freedom, individual choices. Of course this only applies to them - there is no respect of any other individuality unless it's the same flavor as theirs. This sort of mentality can't be reasoned with. This is why I laugh when I hear the pleas from the right to PLEASE UNDERSTAND US!! Nah, I think we understand them just fine. Paying attention to what they do, not what they say, is the best method to understanding the right.

 

[Jaguar]

Missouri poll worker kept COVID diagnosis mostly to herself

A Missouri election judge who came to work despite testing positive for the coronavirus died in her sleep after a 15-hour shift at the polls, the director of her county’s election office said Friday. She tested positive on Oct. 30 but ignored advice to isolate and worked alongside nine other election judges. More than 1,800 people voted at the precinct. Judges were required to wear masks and were mostly behind a plastic glass barrier.

 

[Jaguar]

Parents walk into hospitals with their sick kids and they're told to go home and treat it like the flu, only to end up with dead children. Great job, Donnie. Make America Kill Again. And Again. And Again.

 

[Jaguar]

Stay-at-Home Advisory Issued for Chicago as City Reaches ‘Critical Point'
It is scheduled to take effect at 6 a.m. Monday

 

[JAVO]

The CDC reports that in 2016, there were 7.8 million diabetes-associated hospitalizations in the US. According to the American Diabetes Association, there were 270,702 diabetes-associated deaths in the US. There are 1.5 million new cases every year. Additionally, "Diabetes may be underreported as a cause of death. Studies have found that only about 35% to 40% of people with diabetes who died had diabetes listed anywhere on the death certificate and about 10% to 15% had it listed as the underlying cause of death."

The risk factors for diabetes are clear and well-studied, implying that reducing the number of new cases significantly is a matter of reducing risk factors:

• Smoking
• Overweight and Obesity
• Physical Inactivity
• A1C
• High Blood Pressure
• High Cholesterol

Since these case numbers are horrifying, where are the government interventions? Does the government not care that millions of Americans are slowly dying as a direct result of tobacco and unhealthy foods being so prevalent and readily available? Should health officials enact lockouts where people with significant risk in one category are prohibited from continuing with their risky pattern? Maybe the entire tobacco industry should be shutdown? Those who are physically inactive face house lockouts for an hour a day, where they are forced to participate in exercise programs. Anyone with uncontrolled high blood pressure or high cholesterol will be enrolled in a forced medication program under the supervision of a public health physician.

These lockouts and related restrictions should be put into place immediately in order to flatten the curve of this horrific yet often subtle disease.

The science is behind this. What's stopping it?



------------------------------
Sources:

https://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/pdfs/data/statistics/national-diabetes-statistics-report.pdf

Statistics About Diabetes | ADA

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Does the government not care that millions of Americans are slowly dying as a direct result of tobacco and unhealthy foods being so prevalent and readily available?

Yes. There's probably money to made from lobbyists by the companies that make that stuff.

 

[FemMecha]

The CDC reports that in 2016, there were 7.8 million diabetes-associated hospitalizations in the US. According to the American Diabetes Association, there were 270,702 diabetes-associated deaths in the US. There are 1.5 million new cases every year. Additionally, "Diabetes may be underreported as a cause of death. Studies have found that only about 35% to 40% of people with diabetes who died had diabetes listed anywhere on the death certificate and about 10% to 15% had it listed as the underlying cause of death."

The risk factors for diabetes are clear and well-studied, implying that reducing the number of new cases significantly is a matter of reducing risk factors:

• Smoking
• Overweight and Obesity
• Physical Inactivity
• A1C
• High Blood Pressure
• High Cholesterol

Since these case numbers are horrifying, where are the government interventions? Does the government not care that millions of Americans are slowly dying as a direct result of tobacco and unhealthy foods being so prevalent and readily available? Should health officials enact lockouts where people with significant risk in one category are prohibited from continuing with their risky pattern? Maybe the entire tobacco industry should be shutdown? Those who are physically inactive face house lockouts for an hour a day, where they are forced to participate in exercise programs. Anyone with uncontrolled high blood pressure or high cholesterol will be enrolled in a forced medication program under the supervision of a public health physician.

These lockouts and related restrictions should be put into place immediately in order to flatten the curve of this horrific yet often subtle disease.

The science is behind this. What's stopping it?



------------------------------
Sources:

https://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/pdfs/data/statistics/national-diabetes-statistics-report.pdf

Statistics About Diabetes | ADA

And 100% of Americans will die. The difference is transmission rate. You cannot have a meeting with someone who has diabetes in your office for an afternoon and catch it. It isn't a contagious disease, but one that develops over time because of genetics, environments, and lifestyle. There is funding for diabetes, but yes, there should be more money given to every form of medical research. Put the money that goes into the military into medical research and absolutely address every issue. Don't dismiss COVID-19, fund diabetes research and therapeutics. You are right about its importance.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

(I don't mean to be dismissive about the virus, but thought this was funny).

 

[ceecee]

(I don't mean to be dismissive about the virus, but thought this was funny).

It is funny.

Incidentally, I was told that COVID would magically disappear after the election. That the media would cease talking about it and it would just go away.

These charts show how serious the fall Covid-19 surge is in the US - CNN

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Incidentally, I was told that COVID would magically disappear after the election. That the media would cease talking about it and it would just go away.

These charts show how serious the fall Covid-19 surge is in the US - CNN

And my concern about the news now is that they will see this news of a spike as Big Bad MSM simply doubling down and digging heels in as theater to "prove" it's true (because that's what serial liars do, so that's the 'reality' a serial liar would perceive when looking at it - as per Trump Team Rorschach Distortion protocol) and still dismiss it as being yet more fake news that the TDS crowd will gobble up to sate their hatred for all things Trump.

Meanwhile, CDC is finally emphasising that masks are the best way we can have absolutely any influence in making shutdowns unnecessary. This emphasis should have been there from the start.

Washington Post: Wearing a mask isn’t just about protecting other people, the CDC says. It can help you — and might prevent lockdowns.

 

[Red Herring]

And my concern about the news now is that they will see this news of a spike as Big Bad MSM simply doubling down and digging heels in as theater to "prove" it's true (because that's what serial liars do, so that's the 'reality' a serial liar would perceive when looking at it - as per Trump Team Rorschach Distortion protocol) and still dismiss it as being yet more fake news that the TDS crowd will gobble up to sate their hatred for all things Trump.

Meanwhile, CDC is finally emphasising that masks are the best way we can have absolutely any influence in making shutdowns unnecessary. This emphasis should have been there from the start.

Washington Post: Wearing a mask isn’t just about protecting other people, the CDC says. It can help you — and might prevent lockdowns.

What I don't get is ... do these people seriously think the rest of the world, the other 95% of humanity (well, 97,5% if you include liberal America) is all in on the conspiracy? Currently one out of every four deaths in France is caused by Covid-19. Do they think the French are faking their deaths and ruining their economy and social coherence with a super strict lockdown where people can't even leave their house without a permit just to stick it to Trump?????

 

[Z Buck McFate]

What I don't get is ... do these people seriously think the rest of the world, the other 95% of humanity (well, 97,5% if you include liberal America) is all in on the conspiracy? Currently one out of every four deaths in France is caused by Covid-19. Do they think the French are faking their deaths and ruining their economy and social coherence with a super strict lockdown where people can't even leave their house without a permit just to stick it to Trump?????

I think it's a combination of not trusting news about foreign countries and just not having exposure to news about other countries. It's unlikely that Fox or OAN (et al) report about it.

 

[FemMecha]

^I think there is also a lot of backwards reasoning, where people are used to starting with their conclusion, and then cherry picking "facts" to prove it, and dismissing giant truckloads of data that contradicts it.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I mean, if our rural areas had exposure to foreign opinion, it'd probably put a dent in Emperor 45 worship too. But Trump going full "the media is the enemy of the people!" seems to have blocked access to foreign news *and* (consequently) lent a certain amount of carte blanche confidence to what Powehi wrote^ (rampant faith in confirmation bias as accurate means to discern).

 

[JAVO]

And 100% of Americans will die. The difference is transmission rate. You cannot have a meeting with someone who has diabetes in your office for an afternoon and catch it. It isn't a contagious disease, but one that develops over time because of genetics, environments, and lifestyle. There is funding for diabetes, but yes, there should be more money given to every form of medical research. Put the money that goes into the military into medical research and absolutely address every issue. Don't dismiss COVID-19, fund diabetes research and therapeutics. You are right about its importance.

With diabetes, the transmission rate is also high. You cannot turn on a television, radio, or browse to most sites without being exposed to advertising encouraging an unhealthy lifestyle. And in this case, the transmission is cultural and through the media. This makes diabetes much easier to control, yet the government does little. The impact of COVID-19 on a person is also dependent upon genetics, environments, and lifestyle, just in a different way and a shorter time period.

Currently, the number of US COVID-19 hospitalizations is at 511,397 (National: Hospitalization | The COVID Tracking Project), as compared to 7.8 million diabetes-associated hospitalizations. Yet for COVID-19, dramatic and extreme government action has been taken which is out of proportion to the actual threat.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I'm not sure what the statistics are specifically, but I bet the rate of covid hospitalizations that end up as fatalities is significantly higher than the rate of diabetes hospitalizations.

And I guessing the government mandates that'd be required to make all the behaviors that cause diabetes socially unacceptable would be hella more invasive* than mandating behaviors that stop the spread of covid - but that's all beside the point that the nature of their respective 'contagions' are different. A person has it 100% within their own control to stop the behaviors that could give them diabetes, so it's *their* choice to experience that risk. That's not the case with coronavirus; a person can be absolutely conscientious about the risk, but the behavior of others is what puts them at risk. That's why government mandates about the behavior are more warranted.

*eta: The first thing coming to mind is that soda tax that people got super bent out of shape about. But I mean, there are too many corporations that earn money off of the behaviors that contribute to diabetes - so on top of people losing their minds over government mandates restricting behaviors that contribute to diabetes, there'd be a lot of dark money pouring into campaigns to pour gasoline all over that fire. Too many people earn money off of the population sitting lethargically in front of TVs being exposed to ads that make them feel bad about who they are if they don't buy X, Y, or Z.

 

[FemMecha]

With diabetes, the transmission rate is also high. You cannot turn on a television, radio, or browse to most sites without being exposed to advertising encouraging an unhealthy lifestyle. And in this case, the transmission is cultural and through the media. This makes diabetes much easier to control, yet the government does little. The impact of COVID-19 on a person is also dependent upon genetics, environments, and lifestyle, just in a different way and a shorter time period.

Currently, the number of US COVID-19 hospitalizations is at 511,397 (National: Hospitalization | The COVID Tracking Project), as compared to 7.8 million diabetes-associated hospitalizations. Yet for COVID-19, dramatic and extreme government action has been taken which is out of proportion to the actual threat.

Diabetes is not a contagious disease. If you think society should promote more healthful living and take out the fast food industry, I won't argue with that position. Maybe we should. Maybe those economic consequences would be well worth it. I'm not against the notion. You can make similar cases for heart disease and cancer. The issue is also that if a person chooses to eat a cheese burger, its negative effects do not influence the person within six feet of them. Unhealthy choices have devastating effects and there should be healthful living campaigns, but there is more autonomy of choice and outcome than in a pandemic.

A better comparison to COVID-19 for community health concerns is cigarette smoking. The people who were addicted to nicotine and needed their fix to function during work hours were eventually not allowed because second hand smoke extended the effects of their personal choice to their neighbor. As a result there was a governmental campaign to eliminate cigarette smoking in public places. That infringed on the "rights" of smokers, but was done to protect the choices and rights of non-smokers. That is your issue that is comparable because it involved shared air.

Why do you think the entire world has responded to COVID-19 differently than diabetes? Countries from hard core communist to socialist, to capitalist, to fascist. What could possibly cause every type of political governing system to respond to COVID-19 with some sort of measures? Coincidence? Science?

Also, we are riding the exponential curve up with COVID-19. You don't have your final numbers. The whole point is attempting to prevent the numbers that would naturally occur without precautions.