[INFJ] Are INFJs jealous of INFPs?

[Smilephantomhive]

I think it's common for people to look at each other and think, "Well, that person has it easier than I do." I also think that without knowing what they experience internally, you can't know that. Every type probably has a version of this, so that there are people within each type who think they're special in their suffering or perceived place in the world.

THIS

 

[Virgo1987]

I'm not going to respond to the original post directly. Instead, I'll speculate based on a few of [MENTION=28278]Virgo1987[/MENTION]'s posts.

I do think it's possible for some FJs to be jealous of FPs in a way (and I'm not limiting this to INFJ/INFP). They don't even need to be aware of type, really. It's based on a perception that FPs are impervious to influence somehow. They see FPs doing their thing and think that FPs don't think about other people or care what others think, that the external holds no sway with FPs at all. So some FJs feel that they're lost in the turbulence of relationships while FPs have it easy and aren't bothered by anything to the same extent. It's not true because there are certainly INFPs who care, even about the same things. For the ones who seem less affected by it, they still have a different set of standards and expectations tugging at them.

I think it's common for people to look at each other and think, "Well, that person has it easier than I do." I also think that without knowing what they experience internally, you can't know that. Every type probably has a version of this, so that there are people within each type who think they're special in their suffering or perceived place in the world.

I wouldn't be surprised if people look at IxxPs and decide we aren't concerned with much based on our attitudes.

My mom is an ESFJ, and sometimes I get the sense that she thinks I have it easy because thinking of others isn't a priority for me. If I'm not bothered by my relationships and where I stand with people, then it must be smooth sailing, right? But it doesn't work that way at all. I may be focused elsewhere. That means I'll be bothered by things that may not even be on her radar. It's the same in reverse.

Regarding your friend and her writing, I have two things in mind. One is that she doesn't have anything to say or a particular vision she needs to get across. In that case, type doesn't matter. I've seen people of various types asking questions and needing guidance because they don't know where to go. I think there's some insecurity and/or uncertainty involved. Once you know what you're aiming for, you can make those decisions yourself.

The second thing I was thinking is something that I'm assuming is type related, but I can't be sure. I've seen people do a thing where they "write by committee." They have lots of people vet their ideas for them and go with what comes out of that process. I'm talking about people who have dozens of beta readers or people who whittle down ideas tournament-style, going with the one more people favored. It's like they want some sort of consensus, for lack of a better term, before moving forward. I can't say I understand this, but there are people who work this way, and I've noticed FJs doing it. I don't see INFJs as being separate from the other FJs in a special way, so I'm including them in that. One INFJ writer I know of tries to get everyone to agree with her ideas of how to write her story. It's like knowing what she wants to do isn't enough, and she needs other people's confirmation before she gets to work. She'll spend time convincing them instead of doing what she already wants to do. Most INFJs aren't like this, but it's not impossible.

(On rereading this, I'm about 78% sure most of this post doesn't address your actual questions. Oops.)



I'm just going to say that I find this sort of thinking lazy. Even if her friend is mistyped, that doesn't automatically make her an INFP.

I can agree with this. I never thought that I was special, but compared to my friend I thought that she did have it easier. If she had been honest with me from the beginning of our friendship I would have seen how much darker her world is than mine.

That doesn't make me feel better either. To know that all these years I thought that I had it worse and then to find out that she held so much inside just so she could try and please everybody. That's a whole level of dark that I'm not even sure I'm fully understanding of -- and to know that about any friend, I think, is very scary.

Interesting about the writing. I wish I could remember more of conversation of our writing, but I literally can't. It was just too much back and forth, but maybe she reacted in ways like this more often and I couldn't pick up on it or I didn't realize it.

I think one thing that made me get jealous about our writing is that she was working on her serious work after months of having a writer's block -- and it just made me feel like she could force herself to write something for her serious work, but she couldn't write anything for months on our fun work. Which made me feel awful after I let that get to me because her serious writing is as serious as me and my graphic designing -- but I guess because I find time to do both (and everything else I do in life) I thought she could do the same.

I totally ignored the fact that that she can't work at the same pace as me. That was wrong of me, of course.

 

[ChrisFergusonFl]

CHANGE THE TITLE OF THE THREAD.

FIGURE OF SPEECH BY THE WAY.

ARE FARKLE MINKUS AND LOUIS STEVENS JEALOUS OF EACH OTHER?

HOW ABOUT CASEY ANTHONY AND ASHLEY LEGGAT?

 

[Virgo1987]

CHANGE THE TITLE OF THE THREAD.

FIGURE OF SPEECH BY THE WAY.

ARE FARKLE MINKUS AND LOUIS STEVENS JEALOUS OF EACH OTHER?

HOW ABOUT CASEY ANTHONY AND ASHLEY LEGGAT?

Any suggestions and how do I do that?

 

[ChrisFergusonFl]

Any suggestions and how do I do that?

Thank you for replying.

I didn't mean that literally.

What I do mean though is that you should watch videos of the four people I've Iisted above and compare their behavior.

Wow.

My posts.

I can see why you guys may not understand what I'm saying.

Just know that I like to think.

 

[Virgo1987]

Thank you for replying.

I don't mean that literally.

What I do mean though is that you should watch videos of the four people I've Iisted above and compare their behavior.

Wow.

My posts.

I can see why you guys may not understand what I'm saying.

Just know that I like to think.

Oh okay -- didn't realize.

I'll do what I can. Thank you.

 

[ChrisFergusonFl]

Oh okay -- didn't realize.

I'll do what I can. Thank you.

No problem.

Very sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[Fidelia]

Infjs are super careful about trusting because once someone is in, they kind of have carte blanche. So yeah, they track stuff and it's not to catch you up. They just can't not. It's how they evaluate things. Reciprocity is important to them, but they feel selfish asking for it. Until they feel things are really imbalanced.

One thing I'm concerned about - you do realize that a healthy usual response for most infjs to misunderstandings isn't a big old doorslam, right? It's just the expression that bad communication may manifest itself with this type.

 

[Virgo1987]

Infjs are super careful about trusting because once someone is in they kind of have carte blanche. So yeah, they travk stuff and it's not to catch you up. They just can't not. It's how they evaluate things. Reciprocity is important to them, but they feel selfish asking for it. Until they feel things are really unvalanced.

One thing I'm concerned about - you do realize that a healthy usual response for most infjs to misunderstandings isn't a big old doorslam, right? It's just the expression that bad communication may manifest itself with this type.

Yes I do realize.

Okay. Well thanks.

 

[Forever]

[MENTION=18763]Ghost[/MENTION] note the word probably please.

Intuition is a lazy function btw. No need for the cold shoulder and please note we haven't talked to this person on the forum so you should understand that. It's really speculation relying on another's words.

 

[Cloudpatrol]

I think that INFJ's and INFP's can have mutual respect. Also, connection through similarities and interest in differences. I am talking right now to an INFJ friend who has always helps me see things in a new light and we have supported each other through much.

Honestly, your current experience sounds less type related and more to do with specific friendship dynamics.

I understand wanting to ascertain understanding through MBTI and it's both fun and sound to do so. But, sometimes things like jealousy, apathy, passionate disagreement...enter into human relationships due to other factors (like past experience, present circumstances and emotions, diverging interests etc) and are more uniquely personal in nature.

 

[Ghost]

[MENTION=18763]Ghost[/MENTION] note the word probably please.

Intuition is a lazy function btw. No need for the cold shoulder and please note we haven't talked to this person on the forum so you should understand that. It's really speculation relying on another's words.

Sure, however, I've seen you suggest something along those lines before. That, combined with your preoccupation with INFJs being rare, made me think you're coming at this with the notion that anyone who doesn't fit your idea of INFJ is mistyped and that if they're mistyped they're likely INFP. That's the impression I get from things you've said on the forum.

 

[Forever]

Sure, however, I've seen you suggest something along those lines before. That, combined with your preoccupation with INFJs being rare, made me think you're coming at this with the notion that anyone who doesn't fit your idea of INFJ is mistyped and that if they're mistyped they're likely INFP. That's the impression I get from things you've said on the forum.

Sure. But what's with passive aggression, why didn't you call me out earlier?

Finally tired of me?

Plus it's my opinion. So whatever. I just think that I've talked and researched about INFJ so thoroughly that I feel I have a good ground. You don't have to believe me bud.

 

[Ghost]

Sure. But what's with passive aggression, why didn't you call me out earlier?

Usually, I don't respond to as many threads I read. I'm just not that motivated. That and you seemed upset in the recent past, so I thought I'd leave it alone. You appear to be doing better. Maybe I'm way off base and reading things that aren't there. Don't know.

I may dislike some of your ideas, but that doesn't mean I'm antagonistic toward you yourself. I didn't want those two very separate things to be blurred together, especially when you were already considering leaving the forum.

 

[Forever]

Usually, I don't respond to as many threads I read. I'm just not that motivated. That and you seemed upset in the recent past, so I thought I'd leave it alone. You appear to be doing better. Maybe I'm way off base and reading things that aren't there. Don't know.

I may dislike some of your ideas, but that doesn't mean I'm antagonistic toward you yourself. I didn't want those two very separate things to be blurred together, especially when you were already considering leaving the forum.

You know I may not be the perfect member and I get that, I like you ghost, too. I never had any reason to dislike you. My goodbye thread is in the dumps and yeah, I'm unpredictable and sometimes I can't even predict how I will act or react to things.

Some people like it, some people abhor it. I can only be who I am, if I try changing to please others to fit their worldview or sense of morality/religion I realize how much of myself is lost.

As possibly as a 6, I think about opposing view points all the time, and it's counterproductive but highly useful and amazing when used properly.

I could interpret someone calling me a certain name or use a certain phrase and think it's prejudice or whatever or I can give them the benefit of the doubt. I sometimes may be wrong on either but the one where you're down in the dumps from a stranger isn't worth it but it's always good to take note for next time.

I've learned that sometimes it's not worth to get upset as a defense mechanism or to earn respect when sometimes it's just best to walk away or assume the person was thinking much differently than I thought or not thinking at all. I often not think at all when I do unintentionally offensive gestures or sayings towards people but that doesn't mean I'm excused either.

Plus who wants someone as a friend who's a hot head? Certainly not me so I shouldn't be like that.

I've also come to consider mbti a lot less seriously, but for those who do take it seriously, I respond within the same context. Mbti is only useful to a point and even if you are typed wrong, it isn't going to destroy your life. I would think it could help a little if you're the analytical type but when I heard members here only take mbti for fun, I realized I needed to loosen myself about it as well.

I understand the importance of letting things be. Plus I may not always see that I can correct identify someone of my type or not but reality will be what it is regardless of my knowledge so, why stress about it?

Sorry for monologue. But no offense taken. Was just curious in the change of tone towards me, that's all.

 

[KitchenFly]

INFJ's can be qurious and seek understanding from INFP's on how they seem so settled and content and at ease when they are open and balanced balanced within there own skin present and grounded and simply open to view the emendate world and the situation of what is.

INFJ is or can be curious I out the use of Fi and Ne because they seek to develop the balance between there subtype energy and tritype energy to gain a larger balance.

Another nuance for this is there auxiliary wings wing is INFP the ESNTJ so this compels the INFJ to this action of INFP curiosity of 9w1 curiosity.

As an INFP I have had two close long term INFJ friends between the age of 12 and 27 who acted this way, they wanted to know how I utilised my presence in such a manner to be able to see to the hart of things with out being disturbed by the chaos and possibilities of negativity perceived.

Fi seeks to identify with values and via the tritype balance Ni balances with the Ne and asserts the Fe, a holiness in action is honoured with the assistance of keys the three energy focus and the six energy focus observational awareness from point three and and synergetic awareness from point six supports the Being Presence Key at point nine, it's easier for the 9w1 because they are more focused on the balanced aspects of situational awareness that relates to what is taking place to make judgment where as 9w8 or the INFJ is more focused on the trees that make up the forest and are more concerned with the potential chaos factors the smarty trees may pose, Ne focuses on the forest as it is Fe questions the diversity that is the forest, Fi recognises the trees for what they are Ne questions the trees.

INFJ focuses to the left of the circle of the enneagram and that has its advantages with dealing with the emendate.

INFP focuses to the right of the circle of the enneagram and that has its advantages with being dealing with the emendate.

Both over lap and both have an access to harmony that leads from two forms of presence United as one a dual grouping.

(9w8w1) utilising Trifix 9 _ _ via 6&3 , Tri type 9w1 , _w_ , _w_ , via 3&6.

plus

(9w1w8) utilising Trifix 9 _ _ via 3&6 , Tri type 9w8 , _w_ , _w_ , via 6&3.

The greater Presence is made from the utilisation of the two parts of Part's United.

I think for me the pattern is:
(9w1w8) utilising Trifix 9 2 7 via 3&6 ,Tri type 9w8 , 5w6 , 4w5 , via 6&3.

(9w8w1) utilising Trifix 9 7 2 via 6&3 ,Tri type 9w1 , ?w? , ?w? , via 3&6.

I can recall having exercised the second Tri type , ?w? , ?w? , via 3&6 when I was in grade seven one day at school during an event when I labeled describing all the teachers instinctual characters before all the children in the school when I was forced to perform before the school.

Because I switched on in an unconventional manner via the use of presence to perform a task of will I can recall experiencing the shifts, the three second Tri type energies aligning into place to perform the action but I can not recall the subtype energies of each energy because I was utilising the synergy of the three energies to receptively read the instinctual character of each of the teachers.

I received. Standing ovation because I correctly identified each and all correctly and because I did an action that all present could identify with as a potential action they were capable of doing if they gave then selves the permission.

 

[Virgo1987]

I want to thank everyone for their insight. Not sure I have much more to offer to the thread, but I'm glad I made it because it cleared up even more things for myself.

I went into this thread thinking I had grasped all areas when it deal with how INFJs react to INFPs in these terms and I ended up realizing a lot of what I was thinking was one-sided or just like that of an INFP (or a person, overall). And that's important.

 

[OrangeAppled]

Mix insecurities with magical unicorn + special snowflake syndrome, and you'll have a "my toy truck is bigger than your toy truck" contest. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sure, I just wonder why this gets directed at INFPs....more on why I think that may be below.

I wasn't aware of this happening in MBTI communities, so thanks for mentioning it.

Aren't INFP's and INFJ's like right next to each other when it comes to the type of personalities? At least that's what I've heard. I've also heard from other INFJs that they need INFP's in their lives because we are able to see the darkness, but we handle it better. That being said, I don't mean any harm within saying that.

Maybe I should have used that question instead of using the word jealousy.

I suspect this is why INFPs become the target for some INFJ's insecurities online.
For example, when someone is suspected of being mistyped within an INFJ community, then they are usually pegged as INFP, even though ISFJ or ENFJ may be as likely if not more so. There is an "othering" of people with the "I'm rare complex", suggesting they are likely INFP, even though this complex pops up waaaaay less in the INFP communities. In other words, people who identify as INFJ but who exhibit undesirable qualities are pegged as INFPs, and even in type descriptions/comparisons, INFPs are made to sound like less-perfect INFJs (described as having similar strengths, but far more and/or worse weaknesses). This happens less on this forum than other ones, just to clarify.

Although INFPs & INFJs can differ much in general demeanor (although this gap closes more when enneatype is shared) and way of going about things, sharing 3 preferences (if not the same functions) can lead to similarities such as common areas of interest and talents/strengths/abilities. Having these commonalities yet different ways of approaching them may not only create misunderstanding (which is NOT what I am addressing here, although not surprised the conversation is going that way; but that may be more relevant to YOUR concerns anyway), but it could trigger jealousy in an insecure person.

What I am interested in is a community phenomenon of INFPs being presented as "lesser than" INFJs and if this goes beyond "social bias for J types". Given these articles and websites are usually made by INFJs & INFJ sympathizers (ie those with an INFJ partner), it seems more than simple J bias. Why does this comparison not occur with other types? I don't see this as often with, say, INTP vs INTJ comparisons, which seem to happen less often to begin with (yet the mistyping seems just as likely). And while there is some silly competativeness there too, I don't see it coloring the type's very definition (I see INFP type profiles actually begin with why/how they differ from INFJs, as if it is so necessary to distinguish them, lest INFPs taint the INFJ population ).

INFJ's and INFP's respect each other's differences well I think.

Way better than ENTJ's and ENTP's.

And this is coming from an ENTJ.

I am somewhat curious about how/if this occurs with other types of one letter difference but different function stack, because I think this is a big part of why it happens (different methods or even objectives in very similar areas of interest, many shared strengths but a different manner of wielding them or again, with different goals, etc).

I'm not going to respond to the original post directly. Instead, I'll speculate based on a few of [MENTION=28278]Virgo1987[/MENTION]'s posts.

I do think it's possible for some FJs to be jealous of FPs in a way (and I'm not limiting this to INFJ/INFP). They don't even need to be aware of type, really. It's based on a perception that FPs are impervious to influence somehow. They see FPs doing their thing and think that FPs don't think about other people or care what others think, that the external holds no sway with FPs at all. So some FJs feel that they're lost in the turbulence of relationships while FPs have it easy and aren't bothered by anything to the same extent. It's not true because there are certainly INFPs who care, even about the same things. For the ones who seem less affected by it, they still have a different set of standards and expectations tugging at them.

I think it's common for people to look at each other and think, "Well, that person has it easier than I do." I also think that without knowing what they experience internally, you can't know that. Every type probably has a version of this, so that there are people within each type who think they're special in their suffering or perceived place in the world.

I wouldn't be surprised if people look at IxxPs and decide we aren't concerned with much based on our attitudes.

My mom is an ESFJ, and sometimes I get the sense that she thinks I have it easy because thinking of others isn't a priority for me. If I'm not bothered by my relationships and where I stand with people, then it must be smooth sailing, right? But it doesn't work that way at all. I may be focused elsewhere. That means I'll be bothered by things that may not even be on her radar. It's the same in reverse.

I think some of this as well, especially when it comes to common criticisms from FJs towards FPs.

I'm just going to say that I find this sort of thinking lazy. Even if her friend is mistyped, that doesn't automatically make her an INFP.

This is part of what I am addressing too....why is a mistyped INFJ automatically pegged an INFP? And why does this often occur when the person exhibits some undesirable trait?

 

[Virgo1987]

Maybe there's something wrong with INFPs?

Honestly I don't know. I know you're asking in general, but I don't know.

I agree. INFJ and INFP share things in common, I think better than any other type. Out of all my friends, this one INFJ friend of mine has this same opinion that there's something greater out there in the world and within that greatness there is always some form of art. My other friends are just passing through life without that artistic angle and that's fine too -- no offense to my other friends, but they're just... they just don't understand why I don't like being in the same place too long and why I want to experience different (not so much 'better' ) things.

I think my friend might be insecure in maybe not accepting herself as an INFJ in the true sense. I think if she had support from others like her, it might help. I don't know for sure though. I thought I was doing a good job of understanding her, but I'm still an INFP and maybe that's not what she needs. I think maybe she would like an understanding point of view from an INFJ because maybe she just feels alone in how she feels (even though she most certainly isn't).

 

[cascadeco]

That's not even fair though. I understand what you're saying, but how can another human being track another human being? If you decide to be friends with someone, why are you tracking what they say and what they do?

I hear what you're saying, for sure, and I have an infj friend who I feel expects interactions/events to play out a certain way, else she won't be very happy - so I feel in a sense she is setting the mood/bar and I need to comply. That said --- I have another infj friend who isn't this way at all. Not all infj's are the same.

Re 'tracking' -- I honestly think it's not entirely conscious. I think it's partly conscious, but I think it's more just an automatic thing they do; it just happens. They mentally note something. They can't un-note it once they note it, I don't think. I think it's about seeking consistency in people --- and if they realize there's a pattern of the other person always being 10-30 minutes late, they'll come to expect that and that's set for them, now -- they've defined the person in that way. Then they decide if they're ok with that or not. And so on. I think.