Coronavirus

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

No, no. Democrats let loose the virus on them using a super duper air ventilation system. I know the truth. Only me!

Right. The open-air rallies during an airborne pandemic they eagerly attend has nothing to do with any of it.

 

[JAVO]

The current focus of vaccine development may be misguided and cause COVID-19 to have even more harmful effects.


For an effective COVID vaccine, look beyond antibodies to T-cells | Berkeley News

More than 100 companies have rushed into vaccine development against COVID-19 as the U.S. government pushes for a vaccine rollout at “warp speed” — possibly by the end of the year — but the bar set for an effective, long-lasting vaccine is far too low and may prove dangerous, according to Marc Hellerstein of the University of California, Berkeley.

Most vaccine developers are shooting for a robust antibody response to neutralize the virus and are focusing on a single protein, called the spike protein, as the immunizing antigen. Yet, compelling evidence shows that both of these approaches are problematic, said Hellerstein, a UC Berkeley professor of nutritional sciences and toxicology.

This was noted in people infected by the first SARS virus, SARS-CoV-1, in 2003. SARS patients who subsequently died had higher antibody levels during acute infection and worse clinical lung injury compared to SARS patients who went on to recover. In MERS, which is also a coronavirus infection, survivors with higher antibody levels experienced longer intensive care unit stays and required more ventilator support, compared to subjects with no detectable antibodies.

In contrast, strong T-cell levels in SARS and MERS patients correlated with better outcomes. The same has also played out, so far, in COVID-19 patients.

“A strong antibody response correlates with more severe clinical disease in COVID-19, while a strong T-cell response is correlated with less severe disease. And antibodies have been short-lived, compared to virus-reactive T-cells in recovered SARS patients,” Hellerstein said.

The most worrisome part, he said, is that antibodies also can make subsequent infections worse, creating so-called antibody-dependent enhancement. Two vaccines — one against a coronavirus in cats and another against dengue, a flavivirus that affects humans — had to be withdrawn because the antibodies they induced caused potentially fatal reactions. If an antibody binds weakly against these viruses or falls to low levels, it can fail to “neutralize” the virus, but instead help it get into cells.

 

[Tellenbach]

The FDA better not be dragging its feet in approving both vaccines. This is sort of a priority.

 

[JAVO]

Edit: The description says, "Buffalo New York Business Owners Stand Up to Cuomo Lockdown Orders; Chase Out Sheriff & Health Dept who tried to shutdown meeting of owners trying to survive."

 

[Jaguar]

Let's keep those "essential" gyms open in Buffalo so they can infect as many people as possible. Extra credit if you sicken more than 100 people.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

This chart shows the leading causes of death between the years 1999 - 2018. I think the numbers are an average of all of those years.

#Diseases of heart (I00-I09,I11,I13,I20-I51) 655,381
#Malignant neoplasms (C00-C97) 599,274
#Accidents (unintentional injuries) (V01-X59,Y85-Y86) 167,127
#Chronic lower respiratory diseases (J40-J47) 159,486
#Cerebrovascular diseases (I60-I69) 147,810
#Alzheimer disease (G30) 122,019
#Diabetes mellitus (E10-E14) 84,946
#Influenza and pneumonia (J09-J18) 59,120

Realize *so far* this year COVID-19 has killed 258,675 people, so it would be number three right now. I hope and pray it doesn't double by the end of December. I'm still not understanding why people are flippant about it.

WONDER Message

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Edit: The description says, "Buffalo New York Business Owners Stand Up to Cuomo Lockdown Orders; Chase Out Sheriff & Health Dept who tried to shutdown meeting of owners trying to survive."

Why is everyone such a spoiled brat? OMG If people stopped acting like two-year-olds, we COULD REOPEN businesses and not have people fucking die. People are shooting themselves in the foot over and over. What's the big fucking deal about wearing a mask - pansy assed jocks.

Kindergarten dropouts.

And if you go the "well, they are asymptomatic" route, I will remind the class that adults have the ability to do abstract reasoning. This means they have the capacity to understand viruses exist even though they are too small to see with the naked eye. During a pandemic of a new virus for which the population has not built up immunity, it is possible to carry the virus and be contagious without symptoms. Typhoid Mary is a fourth grade history lesson, so yes, you do need to pass kindergarten to learn that concept, but hopefully socialized education could have helped with that.

 

[Mole]

We have bought 30 million doses of the Oxford vaccine, and will begin distributing it in the new year.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

NPR: Two Rural States With GOP Governors And Very Different COVID-19 Results

One of America's governors most skeptical about COVID-19 has been South Dakota's Kristi Noem. She's loudly refused to impose any shutdowns or a statewide mask mandate.

Noem's devotion to keeping her state open has made her a celebrity in the Republican Party.

She campaigned for President Trump in 17 states, and touted her own record along the way.

"What I did in South Dakota is what we say Republicans always believe," Noem says. "We just did it. We just did it, and look at what is happening in our state."

One of the things happening in South Dakota is an infection rate that's among the worst in the nation, at about 8,000 cases per 100,000 people.

In Vermont, another small, rural state with a Republican governor, Gov. Phil Scott has embraced safety measures, and the differences are pretty stark. Like South Dakota, Vermont has fewer than 1 million residents, most of whom don't live in cities. It has about 500 cases per 100,000 people. That's the lowest rate in the nation.

Scott has embraced statewide shutdowns and mandated masks. When he reopened the state's economy, he did it slowly.

"My decisions throughout this pandemic, from the closures and other mitigation steps in March and April, to the methodical reopening of our economy, hospitals and schools has been based on the data, the science and the recommendations of our health experts," Scott said.

Vermont has recorded a total of 3,310 confirmed coronavirus infections since the pandemic began. South Dakota has recorded more new coronavirus infections than that so far this week, with 5,559 confirmed cases. And South Dakota has more than 10 times as many total COVID-19 deaths.​

 

[JAVO]

This chart shows the leading causes of death between the years 1999 - 2018. I think the numbers are an average of all of those years.


Realize *so far* this year COVID-19 has killed 258,675 people, so it would be number three right now. I hope and pray it doesn't double by the end of December. I'm still not understanding why people are flippant about it.

WONDER Message

The COVID-19 deaths number (258,675) are associated deaths, not necessarily the underlying cause of death. This number can include people without any symptoms who simply tested positive for the COVID-19 virus antibodies or RNA or RNA fragments even. I thought there was an antigen test which was available at one time also. The CDC medical coding guidance specifically states:

g) Asymptomatic individuals who test positive for COVID-19
For asymptomatic individuals who test positive for COVID-19, assign code U07.1,
COVID-19. Although the individual is asymptomatic, the individual has tested positive
and is considered to have the COVID-19 infection.

source: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/icd/COVID-19-guidelines-final.pdf


If we want to compare the COVID-associated death count with other diseases, we have to use the associated death count for those also.

For example:

Diabetes was the seventh leading cause of death in the United States in 2017 based on the 83,564 death certificates in which diabetes was listed as the underlying cause of death. In 2017, diabetes was mentioned as a cause of death in a total of 270,702 certificates.

source: Statistics About Diabetes | ADA

The 270,702 number for diabetes is the one comparable to the 258,675 number for COVID, overlooking the three year difference.

 

[EcK]

Why is everyone such a spoiled brat? OMG If people stopped acting like two-year-olds, we COULD REOPEN businesses and not have people fucking die. People are shooting themselves in the foot over and over. What's the big fucking deal about wearing a mask - pansy assed jocks.

Kindergarten dropouts.

And if you go the "well, they are asymptomatic" route, I will remind the class that adults have the ability to do abstract reasoning. This means they have the capacity to understand viruses exist even though they are too small to see with the naked eye. During a pandemic of a new virus for which the population has not built up immunity, it is possible to carry the virus and be contagious without symptoms. Typhoid Mary is a fourth grade history lesson, so yes, you do need to pass kindergarten to learn that concept, but hopefully socialized education could have helped with that.

The 'big deal' is that most masks don't really work. Especially if you are touching it 40 times a minute. So essentially they are asking people to comply with measures that don't really do anything.
When governements can force us to do shit that's basically pointless that is one step closer from justifying Tyranny. If everyone was wearing N95 masks that were properly fitted that would be one thing, this is not what is happening.

I mean, what type of mask are YOU wearing?
Also, why not just, stop constantly judging everyone and let people do what they want on their own property? Seems exhausting.

 

[Coriolis]

The 'big deal' is that most masks don't really work. Especially if you are touching it 40 times a minute. So essentially they are asking people to comply with measures that don't really do anything.
When governements can force us to do shit that's basically pointless that is one step closer from justifying Tyranny. If everyone was wearing N95 masks that were properly fitted that would be one thing, this is not what is happening.

I mean, what type of mask are YOU wearing?
Also, why not just, stop constantly judging everyone and let people do what they want on their own property? Seems exhausting.

So, we can trust Mayo Clinic

A cloth mask is intended to trap droplets that are released when the wearer talks, coughs or sneezes. Asking everyone to wear cloth masks can help reduce the spread of the virus by people who have COVID-19 but don't realize it. Cloth face coverings are most likely to reduce the spread of the COVID-19 virus when they are widely used by people in public settings.

and MIT

our cloth face coverings are meant to protect other people, not ourselves. And there is steadily accumulating evidence that cloth masks perform that function well, by containing respiratory droplets before they can be expelled into the air.

and the CDC

COVID-19 spreads mainly from person to person through respiratory droplets. Respiratory droplets travel into the air when you cough, sneeze, talk, shout, or sing. These droplets can then land in the mouths or noses of people who are near you or they may breathe these droplets in. Masks are a simple barrier to help prevent your respiratory droplets from reaching others. Studies show that masks reduce the spray of droplets when worn over the nose and mouth.

or we can trust Eck.

I am going to keep wearing a mask.

 

[Red Herring]

Initially Germany had more infections in the (more densely populated) West. Many in the (more rural, also often more rightwing and more skeptical towards government measures) East treated the pandemic as if it was a problem of West German cities. Now we have a second lockdown (called "lockdown light" because schools and stores are still open, it's just big places that are closed and you can't have meetings of more than 10 people or 2 households) and infection numbers are going down in the West and up in the East. Americans, does this sound familiar to you?

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

The 'big deal' is that most masks don't really work. Especially if you are touching it 40 times a minute. So essentially they are asking people to comply with measures that don't really do anything. When governements can force us to do shit that's basically pointless that is one step closer from justifying Tyranny. If everyone was wearing N95 masks that were properly fitted that would be one thing, this is not what is happening. I mean, what type of mask are YOU wearing? Also, why not just, stop constantly judging everyone and let people do what they want on their own property? Seems exhausting.

So people need to learn to not touch their face along with learning the effectiveness of materials and design for masks. Any survival scenario or job requires some delineated learning of details. Humans can apply this same capacity to learn effective mask wearing.


The government required smokers to stop smoking in public, nearly all of whom are dependent on nicotine for cognitive functioning to do their work. People are also required to wear shirts and shoes and somehow we all manage to assume pants are required. How is temporarily wearing a mask in public greater tyranny? If you really want freedom go to work buck naked smoking cigarettes while refusing to wear a mask.

I have four cloth masks triple layered with metal shaping support around the nose that I wear over 1-2 cloth disposable masks depending on the environment. I try to remember to not to touch my face. If I learn about something more effective and have resources I will adapt and apply new knowledge.

I support keeping businesses functioning but it can only work if people take this pandemic seriously. Masks are proven effective in countries and situations where used correctly, but there are additional measures not being discussed. I just bought an air filter that is medical grade HEPA with UV light to kill viruses. Why was this not sold out? I've also heard about UV lights of a specific wavelength that does not hurt human skin but kills viruses. Why aren't these being installed in public places?

Yes the economy and livelihoods are important. I lost half my studio. The only way to stay functioning without outlandish death tolls and ongoing health conditions en masse is to take this seriously, stop throwing tantrums, apply known effective measures, continually refine and reapply so that we can minimize damage to health and economy. This is basic adult maturity survival measures. This notion should not be extraordinary or controversial.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Yes the economy and livelihoods are important. I lost half my studio. The only way to stay functioning without outlandish death tolls and ongoing health conditions en masse is to take this seriously, stop throwing tantrums, apply known effective measures, continually refine and reapply so that we can minimize damage to health and economy. This is basic adult maturity survival measures. This notion should not be extraordinary or controversial.

I wonder why there's such an abrupt and widespread seering distrust of career epidemiologists & virologists. I want to blame the Trump administration, obviously, for politicizing it (and claiming that the Democrats are actually the ones who politicized it to make him look bad, and emphatically consistently preaching that any experts who confirm the seriousness - regardless of their background, how extensive their specific experience is or how esteemed they are in their profession - should be ignored as leftist propaganda). Is it ALL 45 though? It's just bizarre. This total and complete erosion of believing maybe experts who have spent their entire adult lives studying a thing - slowly earning the trust of peers on their cultivated expertise - could possibly know something about that field of study that we don't. When people emphatically defend the demon sex doctor's opinion and automatically dismiss input from Fauci, where do you even start with that?

 

[EcK]

So, we can trust Mayo Clinic


and MIT


and the CDC



or we can trust Eck.

I am going to keep wearing a mask.

That’s funny because i was wearing a (n95) mask while the CDC was telling everyone who s not a doctor not to and that cloths masks don’t work. So i guess you reversed your opinion 180 degree since march/april?

 

[Jonny]

That’s funny because i was wearing a (n95) mask while the CDC was telling everyone who s not a doctor not to and that cloths masks don’t work. So i guess you reversed your opinion 180 degree since march/april?

I don't know man...it was pretty clear to all of us that the following was true:

I ordered them before learning that. Actually there are masks that work but they are discouraging the general public from buying them because they want them to be available for healthcare professionals.

Are you sure you're not misremembering?

 

[Red Herring]

I don't know man...it was pretty clear to all of us that the following was true:



Are you sure you're not misremembering?

There was a very brief period in spring when here in Germany (and apparently also in France) the official recommendation was not to wear a mask. The reasons given were mainly psychological, namely that it would make people feel overconfident and forget to keep a proper distance. Another reason was that there were not enough professional masks, some were sold at ridiculously high prices and doctors and nurses had a hard time getting essential supplies. Countries were outbidding each other for masks from Asia and America even confiscated/stole masks already on their way to Europe. This was in the very beginning though when masks were hard to come by and it wasn't even clear yet that SARS-COV-2 was transmitted through aerosols rather than just droplets. At that time the public focus was on surfaces and handwashing (though later research showed that smear infections were very rare). Then the first studies came in showing that masks do help quite a bit.

Now, naturally one could have looked at Asia and how countries with more experience handled this, but here in Europe there simply was no culture of mask wearing. However, it's only normal for new results and new knowledge to roll in and recommendations to be adjusted accordingly.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Trolls in this thread be all "contagious diseases are the same as non-contagious diseases for public health". "People should be allowed to spread contagious diseases on their property and businesses" *derp* *derp* *derp*

 

[Virtual ghost]

Towards worldometer today is again globally the day with largest death count: 11 916
What probably isn't the final number for the day.