Coronavirus

[Mind Maverick]

^My question an a non-virologist is 'when does this novel COVID-19 coronavirus end and the other coronaviruses begin?' when observing how it came into being and its current mutations. How similar/different does it need to be genetically to be classified specifically with COVID-19? I can continue to try to look for some articles, but also curious if other people have info already.


Even Feline Infectious Peritonitis is a coronavirus identified in 1985. I had a cat die from it about a decade ago and my elderly cat survived it without symptoms. Those symptoms are quite similar to the current COVID-19 symptoms interestingly enough, but it isn't transmittable to humans.

Human Panleukopenia is a terrifying thought.

Yes I know that's parvovirus, it's just a related thought I had.

Highly contagious, low survival rate, fine one day and gone the next.

 

[Mind Maverick]

"Happy Hypoxia" sounds dumb, exaggerated, and misleading. Smh, shut up...it's "Silent Hypoxia."

 

[Maou]

Two Huge Covid-19 Studies Are Retracted After Scientists Sound Alarms - The New York Times

Controversial COVID-19 papers retracted from the Lancet, New England Medical Journal amid backlash | Fox News

I am not surprised. How convenient.

 

[Jonny]

Just because the wall-to-wall media coverage of COVID-19 is over doesn't mean the virus isn't still out there and spreading. Please continue to act safely. Wear a mask. Limit public gatherings. Stay some distance away from others when in public. The cost is so low, and the potential upside is the life of a loved one.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Just because the wall-to-wall media coverage of COVID-19 is over doesn't mean the virus isn't still out there and spreading. Please continue to act safely. Wear a mask. Limit public gatherings. Stay some distance away from others when in public. The cost is so low, and the potential upside is the life of a loved one.

You want to tell me that in the country that seems to have the worst numbers the media coverage of the problem plummeted ? I mean that would explain recent "collective gatherings" in the cities.
To be honest all I really saw in those is spreading of the virus and I was thinking about do these people realize that there is serious pandemic going on.

 

[Vendrah]

It isnt over in my country, here is the pandemic center.

Just today the government is already manipulating official numbers, they had managed to put the daily deaths by more than a half.

And its all opening with some states with a transmission rate of 2 and 3 and all that stuff, because, you know... Local far right. I already knew that was going to happen 2 months ago and that is why I somewhat vented here, so I am not worrying by now, I was emotionally ready for it (tip: Apathy).

However, in a lot of places it seems to be more or less over, at least for a few months...

 

[FemMecha]

Just because the wall-to-wall media coverage of COVID-19 is over doesn't mean the virus isn't still out there and spreading. Please continue to act safely. Wear a mask. Limit public gatherings. Stay some distance away from others when in public. The cost is so low, and the potential upside is the life of a loved one.

I think you mentioned that your partner and family work as scientists in relationship to the pandemic? I know you have posted helpful data, so I'll pose this question to you or whoever else might have input.

What do you make of the numbers of those tested or died of COVID-19? I saw a research that said the numbers confirmed may be 6% of total infections. Can we tell if numbers are going up or down? They say they are going down in my state because the percentage of positive cases within all tested are going down. That would be hopeful in light of all these gatherings, but I feel uneasy about the numbers. Are all demographics getting tested? Are people who refuse to believe in the virus unlikely to go for testing unless they need a ventilator? Is the number of people dying from COVID-19 accurate? There is another article that says the overall numbers of deaths are up and some of those could actually be COVID-19.

I can see how easily those numbers could be adjusted based on contextual factors, so there is a way I feel like I can't tell what is actually going on with numbers infected. What is your take on that?

 

[Red Memories]

Just because the wall-to-wall media coverage of COVID-19 is over doesn't mean the virus isn't still out there and spreading. Please continue to act safely. Wear a mask. Limit public gatherings. Stay some distance away from others when in public. The cost is so low, and the potential upside is the life of a loved one.

I really wish people would realize this...me and my mom went to do weekly shopping and I had to shower because no one wanted to KEEP THEIR FUCKING DISTANCE. NOT EVEN THE FUCKING EMPLOYEES. gah.

 

[FemMecha]

I wonder about all demographics being represented in the testing because there are significant socio-economic factors that lead people to be more likely to seek medical help. I don't know about all demographics, but middle to upper-class culture has much more likelihood of going to the doctor for anything than lower and working class people. Basically people who are used to employment that provides good health insurance usually see the medical system as the place to go. People without are less likely to consider going to the doctor. I think the motivations would be similar for COVID-19 testing. I'd suspect that lower and working class people would only go when their symptoms are serious that they are concerned about life and death. Also the demographic that takes pride in not being concerned about the coronavirus will tend to think they have bad allergies, a bad flu, and be in denial about COVID-19 symptoms. There could be a lot of people feeling sick right, it could be increasing or decreasing now and how would we even know?

It strikes me because when I haven't been feeling well it's primarily the people I know with access to medical care that push me to get tested not realizing it isn't an option without standard symptoms. People with economic privilege are used to even pushing around some rules to get what they need, but if you don't have connections and standing in the community no one bends the rules for you. People with good insurance are given much more medical care because everyone knows the procedures will be paid for, so they are treated more thoroughly. I think it could apply even to this testing. That's yet another issue that people don't consider. I've seen both worlds now in my life.

 

[ceecee]

I wonder about all demographics being represented in the testing because there are significant socio-economic factors that lead people to be more likely to seek medical help. I don't know about all demographics, but middle to upper-class culture has much more likelihood of going to the doctor for anything than lower and working class people. Basically people who are used to employment that provides good health insurance usually see the medical system as the place to go. People without are less likely to consider going to the doctor. I think the motivations would be similar for COVID-19 testing. I'd suspect that lower and working class people would only go when their symptoms are serious that they are concerned about life and death. Also the demographic that takes pride in not being concerned about the coronavirus will tend to think they have bad allergies, a bad flu, and be in denial about COVID-19 symptoms. There could be a lot of people feeling sick right, it could be increasing or decreasing now and how would we even know?

It strikes me because when I haven't been feeling well it's primarily the people I know with access to medical care that push me to get tested not realizing it isn't an option without standard symptoms. People with economic privilege are used to even pushing around some rules to get what they need, but if you don't have connections and standing in the community no one bends the rules for you. People with good insurance are given much more medical care because everyone knows the procedures will be paid for, so they are treated more thoroughly. I think it could apply even to this testing. That's yet another issue that people don't consider. I've seen both worlds now in my life.

I don't think any of the numbers are accurate. Unless you play for the Utah Jazz or University of Alabama, it's likely you're not getting tested either. I have insurance and when my husband and I were both sick very early on, I asked to be tested. I asked later on too and even recently, nope.

Personally I think there are a lot of people dying at home and if they had COVID you wouldn't know and if there was comorbidity, you wouldn't know that either. Especially if they rarely received health care.

Universal health care. And no one gets to ask how to pay for it after this.

 

[Maou]

You want to tell me that in the country that seems to have the worst numbers the media coverage of the problem plummeted ? I mean that would explain recent "collective gatherings" in the cities.
To be honest all I really saw in those is spreading of the virus and I was thinking about do these people realize that there is serious pandemic going on.

Or the pandemic was intentionally hyped up for political reasons. Notice all the sudden scientific retractions once the riots began happening? The riots should have caused a surge in infections right? Why are "health officials" declairing racism to be more deadly than Covid-19 and saying riots are good? Either A) the pandemic was overhyped and lied about, or b) the Plutocracy wants to kill minorities by letting them riot and mass infecting them with covid, as they are more susceptible to it. I am going with the former, because occams razor. You could argue people are just stupid too. But with what I seen going on behind the scenes with the riots and social media psyops. I think its being done by the FBI and foreign nationals to weaknen our country's economy.

 

[Maou]

Asymptomatic spread of coronavirus is '''very rare,''' WHO says

Coronavirus: Asymptomatic spread '''appears to be rare,''' WHO official says | Fox News

So masks were pointless, got it.

 

[Red Memories]

I don't think any of the numbers are accurate. Unless you play for the Utah Jazz or University of Alabama, it's likely you're not getting tested either. I have insurance and when my husband and I were both sick very early on, I asked to be tested. I asked later on too and even recently, nope.

Personally I think there are a lot of people dying at home and if they had COVID you wouldn't know and if there was comorbidity, you wouldn't know that either. Especially if they rarely received health care.

Universal health care. And no one gets to ask how to pay for it after this.

Yeah I had a friend who works in retail, and early on she got sick and wanted a test and they wouldn't give it to her. But she was sick for a while but since they refused to test her, walmart didn't give her leave pay either which pissed me off on her behalf. I wasn't surprised though, Walmart didn't want to deal with my work injury either. Greedy bitches.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Or the pandemic was intentionally hyped up for political reasons. Notice all the sudden scientific retractions once the riots began happening? The riots should have caused a surge in infections right? Why are "health officials" declairing racism to be more deadly than Covid-19 and saying riots are good? Either A) the pandemic was overhyped and lied about, or b) the Plutocracy wants to kill minorities by letting them riot and mass infecting them with covid, as they are more susceptible to it. I am going with the former, because occams razor. You could argue people are just stupid too. But with what I seen going on behind the scenes with the riots and social media psyops. I think its being done by the FBI and foreign nationals to weaknen our country's economy.

Honestly ?


I don't see any such scientific retraction in the media and the US as a whole is defined as "the pandemic disaster area", what isn't really the news anymore. Therefore for me this is more likely to be just another messy disinformation campaign of American media space that lost track of reality. Or the elites are hiding the fact that the county blew it the terms of the pandemic, while this is good old racism debate that will surely shift the attention. On the other hand the protestors to me mostly seem as the crowd of hungry, unemployed and uneducated people that don't really have anything to lose at this point. If foreign forces did anything they have pushed all those people out to make even bigger chaos. Collective running through cities is the last thing the people should do now, plus the testing is surely disrupted to some degree due to all of this. I just don't see your talking points and the ship is sinking regardless of who is to blame for this.

 

[Maou]

Honestly ?


I don't see any such scientific retraction in the media and the US as a whole is defined as "the pandemic disaster area", what isn't really the news anymore. Therefore for me this is more likely to be just another messy disinformation campaign of American media space that lost track of reality. Or the elites are hiding the fact that the county blew it the terms of the pandemic, while this is good old racism debate that will surely shift the attention. On the other hand the protestors to me mostly seem as the crowd of hungry, unemployed and uneducated people that don't really have anything to lose at this point. If foreign forces did anything they have pushed all those people out to make even bigger chaos. Collective running through cities is the last thing the people should do now, plus the testing is surely disrupted to some degree due to all of this. I just don't see your talking points and the ship is sinking regardless of who is to blame for this.

Yeah could be it was too late for everything, and government just pretended to do something. But sacrificing the entire economy over it? It is possible, and a devisive action by certain groups. The media is a corperation too, and only reports on what gets clicks or supports the Democratic narrative because they're activists pretending to be journalists. Which is most of the MSM. I posted several retractions in this thread but more are coming out. It just won't be on TV. Because why would they ever admit they were wrong, when it would make the Democrats look bad?

I don't think the riots are fueled by "hungry, unemployed people" because the government gave out all those handouts for corona, and many of them were already on welfare. Because before Corona, unemployment was at an alltime low. I've already said what I think is going on, and even if I am wrong... people should be on guard either way. Yes, the ship is sinking and its been a long time coming. No country has maintained an unchanged government for as long as USA has.

With all the accountability reform going on though, hopefully things bounce back. I am confident unemployment will drop in the next few months, then government stopping covid handouts, as well as police reforms Unless of course, a meteor hits earth or something. Nothing will surprise me in 2020.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Yeah could be it was too late for everything, and government just pretended to do something. But sacrificing the entire economy over it? It is possible, and a devisive action by certain groups. The media is a corperation too, and only reports on what gets clicks or supports the Democratic narrative because they're activists pretending to be journalists. Which is most of the MSM. I posted several retractions in this thread but more are coming out. It just won't be on TV. Because why would they ever admit they were wrong, when it would make the Democrats look bad?

I don't think the riots are fueled by "hungry, unemployed people" because the government gave out all those handouts for corona, and many of them were already on welfare. Because before Corona, unemployment was at an alltime low. I've already said what I think is going on, and even if I am wrong... people should be on guard either way. Yes, the ship is sinking and its been a long time coming. No country has maintained an unchanged government for as long as USA has.

With all the accountability reform going on though, hopefully things bounce back. I am confident unemployment will drop in the next few months, then government stopping covid handouts, as well as police reforms Unless of course, a meteor hits earth or something. Nothing will surprise me in 2020.

As I said you don't have to sacrifice the whole economy for this. You just have to put it in a freezer for a month or two and then continue where you started. What means that everything is postponed in payment and there is some kind of UBI for that month or two. However in my book the elite didn't want that freeze and instead they kept going until the country was getting filled with the virus that came into many industries, nursing homes, ghettos etc. Therefore only when there was no doubt that this can't go on the elite admitted that the economy has to close (what was done in clumsy fashion). The whole problem came out from the fact that the response was a few weeks too late. In the case that US closed the borders in late February and started preparing right away today you would have totally different picture today and these protests probably wouldn't even start in their current form, if at all. On the other hand after a few months of lockdown the savings quickly evaporate and the handouts weren't that much, especially since most of this people are heavily in the minus even from before the pandemic (and the prices probably went up). If you have a sick family member the money should pretty quickly evaporate if the inflow is crippled. While by now the virus is everywhere around the country and you just have to wait for vaccine to truly fix this. So it is better to shift topic to something more standard like the racism if people are pissed. My politicians do it all the time when things get uncomfortable and they have a few topics that blow up any debate in seconds, since those can't really have a firm conclusion.



At least that is the story how I see it.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

You want to tell me that in the country that seems to have the worst numbers the media coverage of the problem plummeted ? I mean that would explain recent "collective gatherings" in the cities.
To be honest all I really saw in those is spreading of the virus and I was thinking about do these people realize that there is serious pandemic going on.

Coronavirus coverage is on the upswing again. The protests/riots dominated the news but that's slowly settling.

I've seen urging for people who attended protests for people to get tested. There were even testing locations situated at a few of the protests. And someone I knew posted a video of someone at the Chicago protest actually passing out hand sanitizer. I think people (at least in Chicago, where covid has hit minorities particularly hard) were a bit more mindful than the coverage would lead people to believe, because the coverage that gets air time is going to be the most exciting. The more peaceful protesting images showed more masks.

Personally I think there are a lot of people dying at home and if they had COVID you wouldn't know and if there was comorbidity, you wouldn't know that either. Especially if they rarely received health care.

It seems likely that covid fatalies are significantly higher than reported because the death rates for the past couple months has been a lot higher than usual. While some of that might be a consequence of people not seeking medical treatment for other problems (from a fear of getting infected), I think I read that was accounted for. I posted a NYT piece recently in this thread about it I think.

 

[Maou]

As I said you don't have to sacrifice the whole economy for this. You just have to put it in a freezer for a month or two and then continue where you started. What means that everything is postponed in payment and there is some kind of UBI for that month or two. However in my book the elite didn't want that freeze and instead they kept going until the country was getting filled with the virus that came into many industries, nursing homes, ghettos etc. Therefore only when there was no doubt that this can't go on the elite admitted that the economy has to close (what was done in clumsy fashion). The whole problem came out from the fact that the response was a few weeks too late. In the case that US closed the borders in late February and started preparing right away today you would have totally different picture today and these protests probably wouldn't even start in their current form, if at all. On the other hand after a few months of lockdown the savings quickly evaporate and the handouts weren't that much, especially since most of this people are heavily in the minus even from before the pandemic (and the prices probably went up). If you have a sick family member the money should pretty quickly evaporate if the inflow is crippled. While by now the virus is everywhere around the country and you just have to wait for vaccine to truly fix this. So it is better to shift topic to something more standard like the racism if people are pissed. My politicians do it all the time when things get uncomfortable and they have a few topics that blow up any debate in seconds, since those can't really have a firm conclusion.



At least that is the story how I see it.

Fair assessment, and at least you didn't scream "Orange man bad". I personally don't think anyone was prepared for this on this scale. It was social cohesion that played the largest role in preventing deaths imo too. Take a look at Japan. Despite how densly populated it was, the unity and cohesion they portrayed set them on a much better path to overcoming it with minimal deaths. They didn't even need a lockdown.

I would say the prices on some things went up and down. I think the lesson to take away from Corona though. Is have essentials made in your country, in case disaster strikes, cutting off supplies. Beuacracy also inhibited a lot of things for the response. These don't happen often on this scale, so its difficult to plan for them. I think its good that we had something, instead of nothing like some countries. Even if it wasn't perfect. I really dislike how people blame others and say "If only it were better", despite the people doing their best with what they had. Not to mention the political devisiveness used in this pandemic killed people too.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Coronavirus coverage is on the upswing again. The protests/riots dominated the news but that's slowly settling.

I've seen urging for people who attended protests for people to get tested. There were even testing locations situated at a few of the protests. And someone I knew posted a video of someone at the Chicago protest actually passing out hand sanitizer. I think people (at least in Chicago, where covid has hit minorities particularly hard) were a bit more mindful than the coverage would lead people to believe, because the coverage that gets air time is going to be the most exciting. The more peaceful protesting images showed more masks.

Well your main problem is the pandemic. Until that is settled there is no going back to any kind of normal, especially since people will not spend money.



Also from what I know/see from the media these are all mostly cheap or improvised masks. The problem is that when a crowd starts to run and yell through the city this is ideal for spreading of the virus because this creates the mix of plenty of aerosols and deep breathing in the crowd. I understand those people but I am not sure about the timing of all this. From epidemic point of view this is basically like the open beaches from the start of the pandemic (that were outrage). Collective activity after which everyone is going back to their block/community. Plus the testing is disrupted for sure in many places due to riots while the country struggles to prevent completely out of control pandemic (what would burn down the system for sure). Here expect acting on time and lockdown one of key strategies was to find people who infected the sick person. However if you have these kinds of crowds it is no longer possible to determine that. What is one of key goals of social distancing. Since the protests are basically black box in this regard, plus you don't have enough people to trace every lead on time. I said a number of times that US should change the ratios between law enforcement and welfare state but the timing is awkward because this is likely to only prolong the mess that boosts public debt. But I suppose you can reduce these events to "It is a shame to let a good crisis go to waste". After all US likes it reactive. In the case that this was going on here in the mid of the pandemic almost everyone would side with the police regardless of the actual issue. Since there is time and place for everything towards local culture.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Fair assessment, and at least you didn't scream "Orange man bad". I personally don't think anyone was prepared for this on this scale. It was social cohesion that played the largest role in preventing deaths imo too. Take a look at Japan. Despite how densly populated it was, the unity and cohesion they portrayed set them on a much better path to overcoming it with minimal deaths. They didn't even need a lockdown.

I would say the prices on some things went up and down. I think the lesson to take away from Corona though. Is have essentials made in your country, in case disaster strikes, cutting off supplies. Beuacracy also inhibited a lot of things for the response. These don't happen often on this scale, so its difficult to plan for them. I think its good that we had something, instead of nothing like some countries. Even if it wasn't perfect. I really dislike how people blame others and say "If only it were better", despite the people doing their best with what they had. Not to mention the political devisiveness used in this pandemic killed people too.

Well my country has mostly similar cards as Japan in many regards, since the social cohesion is strong due to low cultural diversity. They even like us quite a bit for some reason.
However the key is acting on time and if you close the borders on time you surely wouldn't take much damage regardless of everything else. Since with this you have in a way placed the whole country in the lockdown. It is just that the lockdown is from the outside and the whole country is basically one big household. What they probably did because they knew that due to population density there will be a disaster if this starts to spread without control. This is exactly why my government pull the plug completely after first 50 cases. Since we probabably don't really have the medical resources for serious pandemic country wide if this gets out of hand.