I Think I'm Gonna Puke

[Rambling]

stating that you're going to leave the thread 3 times and consistently returning doesn't suggest an aim to truth. it is an outright failure to provide reliable material.

i get that threads like these are often made with an incentive to achieve acceptance, but that's not always the case. even when it is the case, blaming the op for it and beelining the topic yields the opposite effect. that is not constructive to the discussion. in fact, it is knowingly destructive.

i was looking forward to posting in this thread, but it looks like the lines have been severed and i don't know if it will be back up and running.

what i will say is that i don't think that cp is disingenuous. i thought she was mafia because she was giving me the most resistance when i was pushing to lynch senza tema, because she wasn't voting much, and she was the switzerland of the game. this led me to reevaluate why she asked me if i was a mafia roleblocker. however, i should have known better, because earlier in the game, senza 'liked' a post in which i scrutinized cp for her posting style. ironically, my criticisms were in a vein similar to some of those that have been brought against her in this thread. given the outcome, this line of thought was misguided.

in the aftermath, i have come to the conclusion that she has a preference for mercy over justice, prefers to collect all available information before making a decision, is of the idealist temperament, and prefers to work behind the scenes. so i'm going to go with infp (in mbti) until convinced otherwise.

i also think she genuinely cares about people. while it has become fashionable in academic circles to disprove that altruism exists, people tend not to help others specifically to feel good about it. i think cp is an altruistic person.

I haven't read the thread since I last posted four pages ago, but I was just scrolling upwards after my latest post here, and I read this.

Can I suggest that type theory can't readily be based upon behaviour in a Mafia game? I mean, the game's aim is to deceive others, and any decent typist knows their own type and how to use, misuse and misdirect others...

Or am I the only one who goes that way?

 

[Virtual ghost]

Incredibly nervous. I am a somewhat private person & this feels like opening myself up MUCH more than feels comfortable.

M A K I N G myself do it (wry grin).

I came here new - 4 months ago as an INFP - and have tested as one for many years.


Yet, almost daily I am asked: if I am not in fact an INFJ?. Sometimes I get this query a FEW times a day. It leads me to wonder what are other's seeing that I am not?

1. What others think on the issue isn't that much important since they can't judge you inner mechanisms. (especially since this is internet forum)

2. Also I think that the core of the problem is that you are "somehow" too polite for a INFP. There simply isn't any/many bitchy and moody elements in your posts that are typical for INFPs.

3. Mistyping of INFJ as INFP is more common then the other way around, since INFJs usually aren't typical Js because they are introverts with low sensing and thinking.

4. Regarding Amargith: you have the same tritype class as her so that can explain many things, but that doesn't mean you necessary have her MBTI functions.

 

[Tater]

I haven't read the thread since I last posted four pages ago, but I was just scrolling upwards after my latest post here, and I read this.

Can I suggest that type theory can't readily be based upon behaviour in a Mafia game? I mean, the game's aim is to deceive others, and any decent typist knows their own type and how to use, misuse and misdirect others...

Or am I the only one who goes that way?

well, i reference the mafia game because it's evidence that's available to everyone for the sake of argument.

my conclusion is also based on my one-on-one interactions with her.

it's a game based on deceiving others, but everybody's role is revealed in the conclusion, so you can go back and see why they did what they did in hindsight. a player might me confused or wrong during the game, but playstyles and individual characteristics become clear in the final outcome.

furthermore, her original post makes at least one thing noticeable: her and her husband had obvious differences in personality. i'm not inclined to doubt her own analysis of their dissimilarities, and since we're only discussing one dichotomy...

 

[Cloudpatrol]

[MENTION=6723]phobik[/MENTION]

You are consistent (grin).

Sorry you had to experience that.


[MENTION=25377]SearchingforPeace[/MENTION]

Your husband was a INFJ, right? If it isn't too sensitive, can you describe how you were similar and how you were alike? Please feel free to skip if you would rather not discuss this.

I HAVE written, but then deleted, several long responses to this question

I am not comfortable putting His ‘person’ under scrutiny. It’s VITALLY important to me that I Honor Him, and be a loyal steward of His memory. He was NOT perfect, but He WAS perfect for me. I am reticent to expose His qualities for interpretation: by anyone who never knew him.

If you want to ask me any questions regarding our dynamics via PM, please DO! (smile)

What other types are in your family?

Paternal Grandfather: ESTP
Paternal Grandmother: ENFP

Maternal Grandfather: ISFJ
Maternal Grandmother: ISTJ

Father: ENTX
Mother: ENFJ
Brother: INTP

Maternal Aunt: ESFJ
Maternal Aunt: ENTP
Maternal Uncle: ENTJ
Paternal Aunt: ESFP

Cousin: INTJ
Cousin: ISTJ
Cousin: ISFP
Cousin: INFJ

(I have a huge family on both sides, but am only including those: 1) genetically linked and 2) who I have spent most time with.)

Do you enjoy philosophical or abstract discussions or do you prefer more concrete topics?

Definitely philosophical or abstract, though don’t mind if concrete application is made.

Do you prefer breadth of knowledge or depth of knowledge? Would you rather be an expert at one or two things, or have more general skills in more areas?

Absolutely in favour of general skill. In most cases, prefer breadth to depth. Would likely become bored or wonder what else I was missing, if I devoted too much specialized focus to one field of interest.


[MENTION=12991]Santosha[/MENTION] Yes, I think I have written you about how I value your observations and keen insights. I am grateful for your participation here and am adding it to the data I am compiling


[MENTION=4347]Virtual ghost[/MENTION] Time constraints mean I will have to return to answer another day. I do have thoughts about what you have said here. For now: thank you for contributing to this thread and offering me feedback to consider.


[MENTION=21859]Rambling[/MENTION] Just in addition to what Floki said: I do think there is merit to be found observing game play

I find it really helpful to observe prospective romantic partners playing sports. Even though it is a game setting and one can take on a 'defensive' or 'offensive' approach, SO much can be divined from the playing. Do they pass, ball/puck-hog, encourage fellow team mates, take cheap shots, lose sorely... Such observations shouldn't be the ONLY justification (or as you say used 'readily') for drawing conclusions on someone's person, but can be hugely helpful...


[MENTION=22257]Floki[/MENTION] Still value your laser-like astute thinking:

furthermore, her original post makes at least one thing noticeable: her and her husband had obvious differences in personality. i'm not inclined to doubt her own analysis of their dissimilarities, and since we're only discussing one dichotomy...

 

[Rambling]

[MENTION=6723]phobik[/MENTION]

You are consistent (grin).

Sorry you had to experience that.


[MENTION=25377]SearchingforPeace[/MENTION]



I HAVE written, but then deleted, several long responses to this question

I am not comfortable putting His ‘person’ under scrutiny. It’s VITALLY important to me that I Honor Him, and be a loyal steward of His memory. He was NOT perfect, but He WAS perfect for me. I am reticent to expose His qualities for interpretation: by anyone who never knew him.

If you want to ask me any questions regarding our dynamics via PM, please DO! (smile)





Paternal Grandfather: ESTP
Paternal Grandmother: ENFP

Maternal Grandfather: ISFJ
Maternal Grandmother: ISTJ

Father: ENTX
Mother: ENFJ
Brother: INTP

Maternal Aunt: ESFJ
Maternal Aunt: ENTP
Maternal Uncle: ENTJ
Paternal Aunt: ESFP

Cousin: INTJ
Cousin: ISTJ
Cousin: ISFP
Cousin: INFJ

(I have a huge family on both sides, but am only including those: 1) genetically linked and 2) who I have spent most time with.)




Definitely philosophical or abstract, though don’t mind if concrete application is made.



Absolutely in favour of general skill. In most cases, prefer breadth to depth. Would likely become bored or wonder what else I was missing, if I devoted too much specialized focus to one field of interest.


[MENTION=12991]Santosha[/MENTION] Yes, I think I have written you about how I value your observations and keen insights. I am grateful for your participation here and am adding it to the data I am compiling


[MENTION=4347]Virtual ghost[/MENTION] Time constraints mean I will have to return to answer another day. I do have thoughts about what you have said here. For now: thank you for contributing to this thread and offering me feedback to consider.


[MENTION=21859]Rambling[/MENTION] Just in addition to what Floki said: I do think there is merit to be found observing game play

I find it really helpful to observe prospective romantic partners playing sports. Even though it is a game setting and one can take on a 'defensive' or 'offensive' approach, SO much can be divined from the playing. Do they pass, ball/puck-hog, encourage fellow team mates, take cheap shots, lose sorely... Such observations shouldn't be the ONLY justification (or as you say used 'readily') for drawing conclusions on someone's person, but can be hugely helpful...


[MENTION=22257]Floki[/MENTION] Still value your laser-like astute thinking:

And of course, watching them play sport is the perfect way to assess their err.... physical talents...

 

[SearchingforPeace]

[MENTION=6723]phobik[/MENTION]

You are consistent (grin).

Sorry you had to experience that.


[MENTION=25377]SearchingforPeace[/MENTION]



I HAVE written, but then deleted, several long responses to this question

I am not comfortable putting His ‘person’ under scrutiny. It’s VITALLY important to me that I Honor Him, and be a loyal steward of His memory. He was NOT perfect, but He WAS perfect for me. I am reticent to expose His qualities for interpretation: by anyone who never knew him.

If you want to ask me any questions regarding our dynamics via PM, please DO! (smile)





Paternal Grandfather: ESTP
Paternal Grandmother: ENFP

Maternal Grandfather: ISFJ
Maternal Grandmother: ISTJ

Father: ENTX
Mother: ENFJ
Brother: INTP

Maternal Aunt: ESFJ
Maternal Aunt: ENTP
Maternal Uncle: ENTJ
Paternal Aunt: ESFP

Cousin: INTJ
Cousin: ISTJ
Cousin: ISFP
Cousin: INFJ

(I have a huge family on both sides, but am only including those: 1) genetically linked and 2) who I have spent most time with.)




Definitely philosophical or abstract, though don’t mind if concrete application is made.



Absolutely in favour of general skill. In most cases, prefer breadth to depth. Would likely become bored or wonder what else I was missing, if I devoted too much specialized focus to one field of interest.


[MENTION=12991]Santosha[/MENTION] Yes, I think I have written you about how I value your observations and keen insights. I am grateful for your participation here and am adding it to the data I am compiling


[MENTION=4347]Virtual ghost[/MENTION] Time constraints mean I will have to return to answer another day. I do have thoughts about what you have said here. For now: thank you for contributing to this thread and offering me feedback to consider.


[MENTION=21859]Rambling[/MENTION] Just in addition to what Floki said: I do think there is merit to be found observing game play

I find it really helpful to observe prospective romantic partners playing sports. Even though it is a game setting and one can take on a 'defensive' or 'offensive' approach, SO much can be divined from the playing. Do they pass, ball/puck-hog, encourage fellow team mates, take cheap shots, lose sorely... Such observations shouldn't be the ONLY justification (or as you say used 'readily') for drawing conclusions on someone's person, but can be hugely helpful...


[MENTION=22257]Floki[/MENTION] Still value your laser-like astute thinking:

Ok, I have thought for a long time on the issue of whether to explore your dynamic with your husband and decided to skip it. For now.

But what about your mother: Would you mind discussing how you are like or unlike your mom?

 

[Qlip]

I feel a lot of INFJ from you, you a directive presence on this forum, starting conversations and engaging them and such, much Fe. INFPs generally are less topical besides usually specific subjects that are near and dear to them, and most of their directive activity tends to involve 'righting' people.

 

[Cloudpatrol]

Ok, I have thought for a long time on the issue of whether to explore your dynamic with your husband and decided to skip it. For now.

But what about your mother: Would you mind discussing how you are like or unlike your mom?

For now...sounds ominous (laughs).


My Mom is awesome!


The worst thing someone can do to my Mom is hurt her feelings. The worse thing someone can do to me is accuse me of being something or someone I am not. We are both fiercely loyal and will take hits for the people we love.

She is highly emotional. She cries and takes offence easily. I will only cry in front of someone I trust, highly favour logic (even if intuition is my guiding force) and believe that generally there are discoverable reasons for what people do.

We are both highly perceptive, but my Mom MORE so than I. She can make accurate connections (indiscernible to the rest of us) with almost a scarily psychic quickness. She takes comfort in reaching conclusions about people. I enjoy having intuitions about people, but form conclusions less and prefer to learn more about people rather than putting them in boxes. Possibility brings me more comfort than conclusion.

My Mom is less logical but more organized and less playful than I am. I enjoy being capable - in an organized way - but it doesn't come naturally. It's something I have worked on, once I finally realized the practical benefits. I am VERY playful. I name objects dear to me, I like loving teasing, blanket forts, drawing a picture on a lover's back with my fingers...

My Mom is a worrier. For the most part, I can't be bothered. There are a million possible outcomes and I don't want to be hampered by concern about something that may never arise. If it needs attention, I prefer to contemplate and then: act. Versus how my Mom will worry and then worry more about EVERY possible outcome. Me=fears My Mom=anxiety.

My Mom is more sentimental and I (tho I love a certain amount of tradition that connects me to others) enjoy trying new things and forging new traditions and paths.

I am observant, but my Mom is more able to discern colours and shapes and patterns. Even social patterns.

My Mom likes to put a lid on things, doesn't like to discuss politics... I love getting into things with people (respectfully) with the idea that I will gain more understanding of people and possibly change my mind. My Mom isn't big into changing her mind

I am very creative in less practical ways than my Mom. She sews, is good at decorating, is amazing with fashion whereas I like fashion but LOVE dance, painting, writing...

Whereas I am good with language, Moms is positively brilliant.

My Mom will go to the ends of the earth for people and not count the cost to herself. She is LOVE. I am very giving but also have boundaries.

My Mom can be acerbic, avarice, sarcastic and cutting. I enjoy sarcasm but more for humour sake than as a weapon. I am generally good-natured and in conflict will seek resolution rather than justification that the other person is wrong.

Moms is not totally trusting but will present all of herself for examination when she gives. I hold pieces of myself back more except with those I let into an 'inner sanctum'.

My Mom's humour is very practical. My humour varies from word-based, to zany to appreciating kinds of humour that other's display but I don't have. If someone makes a joke or clever comment outside of my Mom's humour-experience she is puzzled and will express it's not that funny.

My Mom's greatest fear is that she isn't enough. My greatest fear is losing connection (or realizing it was not there to begin with). When my Mom is stressed she turns to food, drink, and being less loving with those close to her. When I am stressed I turn to less tangible things like art or humour and I am more likely to turn stress inward than against other's (though I do occasionally also take fear/stress out on people I care about).

She is an AMAZING listener. I am an ok listener but have to remember not to interrupt when exciting thoughts occur to me

Physically my Mom is more languid and graceful. Her eyes are like calm pools of chocolate. I am more animated and my eyes are sparkly and can be like a mirror reflecting the person back to themselves.

I think romantically my Mom most favours security and having someone be able to care for her. Romantically, I am more interested in a being part of a team and exploring and 'becoming' together. She'd rather have someone cook for her, I'd rather cook something for someone that they love...


Man, you would love my Mom. Everyone does! She is super cool (not perfect but perfection is boring ).

 

[Cloudpatrol]

[MENTION=25377]SearchingforPeace[/MENTION] I emailed this to my Mom and the only thing she disagreed with is my greatest fear. She said that she thinks I fear not being true to myself or my principles or being min-understood more than lack of connection. She presented compelling evidence so I am going to agree with that after re-considering

 

[Jeremy8419]

[MENTION=27162]Cloudpatrol[/MENTION] what do you want to know and why? Speak real, and I may answer real.

 

[Cloudpatrol]

[MENTION=27162]Cloudpatrol[/MENTION] what do you want to know and why? Speak real, and I may answer real.

Why would I meet arbitrarily imposed stipulations when the offer or reward hinges on a "may respond"?

Truth is, I am only capable of being 'real'. I started this because I was curious to know other's impressions of my type. Because I have received much feedback that other's feel I am possibly INFJ or ISFJ and I was not sure where it was coming from.

Answer if you wish or not... This is a voluntarily-based atmosphere (smile).

 

[Jeremy8419]

Why would I meet arbitrarily imposed stipulations when the offer or reward hinges on a "may respond"?

Truth is, I am only capable of being 'real'. I started this because I was curious to know other's impressions of my type. Because I have received much feedback that other's feel I am possibly INFJ or ISFJ and I was not sure where it was coming from.

Answer if you wish or not... This is a voluntarily-based atmosphere (smile).

Wrong "may." If you don't tell me, I'm not allowed to answer. Tell me, and I may answer.

 

[Jeremy8419]

Breaking oath: There is only one real "end" correct?

 

[ENTP-Guy]

I mean, I just found out I'm actually an ISTP
Maybe you're an INFJ who knows?

 

[Jeremy8419]

Anywayssssss...

You strike me as INTP/INFP, but actually an ESTj. The Ti-Ne of the INTP being unconsciously active in your Ignoring and Mobilizing functions of ESTj, and the INFP actually being unconsciously active in the Suggestive and Mobilizing functions of ESTj. This placing you as alternating back and forth between the two ways your Mobilizing may be used. The reason for the alternating, is that actualization of the super-id of Fi-Ne would cause you to enter your own Ego of Te-Si, which would actualize the strong magnetism for your dual, the INFj, which seems like what your departed would have been in Socionics. So, rather than begin the actualization of your super-id, your happiness, and re-enter into the conscious magnetism of the departed, you, instead keep going back to your Ignoring, and, essentially, going back to "sleep."

Just my thoughts though.

 

[Cloudpatrol]

Anywayssssss...

You strike me as INTP/INFP, but actually an ESTj. The Ti-Ne of the INTP being unconsciously active in your Ignoring and Mobilizing functions of ESTj, and the INFP actually being unconsciously active in the Suggestive and Mobilizing functions of ESTj. This placing you as alternating back and forth between the two ways your Mobilizing may be used. The reason for the alternating, is that actualization of the super-id of Fi-Ne would cause you to enter your own Ego of Te-Si, which would actualize the strong magnetism for your dual, the INFj, which seems like what your departed would have been in Socionics. So, rather than begin the actualization of your super-id, your happiness, and re-enter into the conscious magnetism of the departed, you, instead keep going back to your Ignoring, and, essentially, going back to "sleep."

Just my thoughts though.

Thanks. I will look into what you have said here.

 

[Jeremy8419]

Thanks. I will look into what you have said here.

Try to leave the smoke-and-mirrors that is sexless typology. People are multi-dimensional. People on these sites tend to unconsciously replace sex and gender with various types. My mother is ESTj, but acts like an INFP a significant portion of the time, ESFP some, and even INTJ. People float through them all. Some of the various type/sex combination stereotypes people come up with make me wanna slap myself. ESTj is "the administrator," but what it doesn't say is what exactly it is the administrator of.

Regardless of what you come up with in your journeys of the heart and your type, remember that once all the smoke and mirrors of typology fade away, you still remain. Mirrors fade, smoke clears, and candles burn away... But that light, the light that once lit the world, whether you can always see it or not, whether new candles or lamps now hold its warmth, whether we even one day can recall it's original form... That light still exists... Somewhere... Never forget that light, for you may find it one day again in a new form... And remember that you are and yet will be a light for others as well.

 

[Cloudpatrol]

Try to leave the smoke-and-mirrors that is sexless typology. People are multi-dimensional. People on these sites tend to unconsciously replace sex and gender with various types. My mother is ESTj, but acts like an INFP a significant portion of the time, ESFP some, and even INTJ. People float through them all. Some of the various type/sex combination stereotypes people come up with make me wanna slap myself. ESTj is "the administrator," but what it doesn't say is what exactly it is the administrator of.

Regardless of what you come up with in your journeys of the heart and your type, remember that once all the smoke and mirrors of typology fade away, you still remain. Mirrors fade, smoke clears, and candles burn away... But that light, the light that once lit the world, whether you can always see it or not, whether new candles or lamps now hold its warmth, whether we even one day can recall it's original form... That light still exists... Somewhere... Never forget that light, for you may find it one day again in a new form... And remember that you are and yet will be a light for others as well.

Thanks

When I have more time I will read this again and let it soak in.

I had written a message to you before about how I valued the cyclical nature of enneagram. But, I didn't send it immediately and must have erased it when you 'left'. Anyways, like I said in the other thread I don't always agree with you or 'get' your views but other times I find what you say succinct and compelling. I appreciate the feedback.

 

[Jeremy8419]

Thanks

When I have more time I will read this again and let it soak in.

I had written a message to you before about how I valued the cyclical nature of enneagram. But, I didn't send it immediately and must have erased it when you 'left'. Anyways, like I said in the other thread I don't always agree with you or 'get' your views but other times I find what you say succinct and compelling. I appreciate the feedback.

In Socionics I have Creative Ne-, which means I create and utilize whatever viewpoints are necessary to benefit others. Sometimes, it's such as this, and other times it's a method to improve my abilities to do such. People generally like or love my deeply personable level online, but rarely do they recognize that it comes from what I learn from everything else I do. I don't just magically pull the good from thin air. It's the culmination of many paths walked by someone who, for himself, was content sitting still.

 

[Cloudpatrol]

In Socionics I have Creative Ne-, which means I create and utilize whatever viewpoints are necessary to benefit others. Sometimes, it's such as this, and other times it's a method to improve my abilities to do such. People generally like or love my deeply personable level online, but rarely do they recognize that it comes from what I learn from everything else I do. I don't just magically pull the good from thin air. It's the culmination of many paths walked by someone who, for himself, was content sitting still.

Hmmm, I am absorbing this. It makes sense because I sometimes have had the thought "yes, I could fondly think of J as a friend" and then other times I am not sure of your intent and/or reasoning.

Let me ask you this (something I have often discussed with friends IRL): Do you think it is possible to accomplish more by 1) sharing knowledge OR 2) trying to teach people lessons?