Silence is Pretentious

[Evee]

 

[Vasilisa]

“Silence is not the absence of something but the presence of everything.”

Our silence creates space to listen. Our listening creates space to take notice. Our noticing creates space for amazement. It is our amazement that gives us the energy to create change, whether that be in ourselves, in other people, or in the world.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I just don't feel like talking about things. I don't owe anyone anything.

 

[Bush]

but could it be say that it's a real skill to present bullshit via silence

Smirks.

 

[angelgirl]

Silence can be a lot of things. On the one had it can be golden, absorbing the information that you process, enhancing your intuition, avoiding confrontation, trying not to say something that might hurt someone sensitive, or because someone is really shy. On the other hand it can be awkward, failing to ask questions that need answering, misassuming what someone is really thinking. I personally don't mind it. Some people prefer to be listeners than talkers and that's not a bad thing.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Another reason why I've become silent is that I've become more clued in as to just how manipulative people can be.

 

[Fun in the Sun]

Know when to talk and when to STFU.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

People can communicate far more with silence. Every word is a distortion of reality by its very nature of limiting a concept with a definitive definition. I wish more people were silent to take the time away from words, so they could think, perceive, listen, and communicate in a way more aligned with reality. Words are how we create the most effective lies. Words are used to sugar coat bad actions.

 

[Antsers]

That's interesting. I'm not sure if what I'm about to say will be what you're asking but I'm going to write it anyway. lol.

Hm-- Actually, I think rather than silence being pretentious. Doesn't pretentiousness mean having unrealistically high standards? If a person doesn't make an effort to talk to anyone because they don't think anyone is worth the time or effort, then that would be pretentious. But if a person has a legitimate reason not to want to talk to someone, that wouldn't be pretentious, just personal preference. The difference would be hard to spot-- actually, you wouldn't be able to spot it (as in facial expressions or mannerisms). Which is why you need to do some research before you make a final judgement. A person could also be really shy. I used to be called on excessively during class, which the teacher was being such a douchebag, but I refused to speak. Not because I was being pretentious, but I felt I was constantly being humiliated-- which, it was humiliating. You can't read a person's silence. As uncomfortable as it is to experience that silence, it's best to regard it as neutral. More often than not, a friendly comment will be reciprocated. If not, just move along.

edit: I agree with what the others are saying.. silence can be really good for reading others. But not in a bitter way.. Fast judgements are never good.

 

[Proctor]

...

 

[GarrotTheThief]

if silence is the opposite of sound , in this context, speaking...then truth be told, no one can be silent truly, or speaking since the body is always communicating but what is communicated in general is never true to the intention...lost in translation and by distortion of the person charged with the speaking.

 

[Hawthorne]

This thread lacks a path to refinement. But maybe that's not the point?

How does silence make me feel? Valneut. A tool like any other.

 

[Coriolis]

Eros is the opposite of death and silence most often is a form of communication which when overused causes prolific harm. On the shitter at work I beseech you to discuss this matter so my bathroom breaks are entertaining.

Where does this come from?

So the people defend Silence. It makes sense. Styge lives in us all and she is the benifecent goddess of silence who brings great spiritual gifts in the abyss of emptiness.

So it does not surprise this one that many would see the good in the darkness.
But what of the bad?

The bad in darkness is already overly exaggerated, overemphasized. Indeed darkness is often equated with that which is bad, evil, false; while good is equated with what is good, right, and true. Not only simplistic, but unrealistic. As I have said before, we are as blind in a room flooded with light as we are in the darkness. It is in their combination and contrast that meaning is found. Put another way, night is the other half of day: equally necessary, equally good.

In truth, a blank sheet
Declares by the void
That there is nothing as beautiful
As that which does not exist.
On the magic mirror of its white space,
The soul sees before her the place of the miracles
That we would bring to life with signs and lines.
This presence of absence over-excites
And at the same time paralyses the definitive act of the pen.
There is in all beauty a forbiddance to touch,
From which emanates I don’t know what of sacred
That stops the movement and puts the man
On the point of acting in fear of himself

Paul Valery

Signs and lines of black ink. Of darkness, wherein the meaning is contained.

But he who knows how to speak can chose to be silent too, and we know silence can be dangerous.

So then one asks...how many people use silence as a weapons versus a benign or neutral form of grace?

People are much more likely to use silence as armor, and for that purpose it can be quite effective.

The stoic as closest narcissist? Is your quiet friend really a douche bag?

So to answer the OP: I don't know about your friend. He doesn't say enough for me to judge.

 

[sprinkles]

 

[GarrotTheThief]

Where does this come from?


The bad in darkness is already overly exaggerated, overemphasized. Indeed darkness is often equated with that which is bad, evil, false; while good is equated with what is good, right, and true. Not only simplistic, but unrealistic. As I have said before, we are as blind in a room flooded with light as we are in the darkness. It is in their combination and contrast that meaning is found. Put another way, night is the other half of day: equally necessary, equally good.


Signs and lines of black ink. Of darkness, wherein the meaning is contained.


People are much more likely to use silence as armor, and for that purpose it can be quite effective.


So to answer the OP: I don't know about your friend. He doesn't say enough for me to judge.

Jung/freudian thought overlap in positing thanatos (the wish for death) as opposite to eros(the wish for love/connection) and now we find that lonliness can be detrimental to the health, but also good - balance is the thing right?

But this thread comes from a book that i read where it found that parents who do not express love to their children impair their ability to function, and this of course refers to silence in the form of not only speaking but emotional presence.

I guess silence is one tool of the apathetic and indifferent. In this case the stoic may actually, even if intentions are good, be hurting his friends by acting wise and silent and reserved.

- - - Updated - - -

haha
[MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION] but i see your point too that silence is a defense mechanism against the manipulative and blundering loud.

 

[Kheledon]

I think silence can be pretentious. When someone is speaking to you, and you respond to them with an extended silence, you may think you're just "processing" what you just heard, but the person speaking may perceive that silence as a kind of rejection, as if you were saying, in actions, not words, "What you have to say is of so little importance to me that it doesn't even deserve a response." Taken further, continued silence to that same person who's trying to talk to you says, "YOU are of so little importance to me that YOU don't even deserve a response." That can hurt, as [MENTION=25377]SearchingforPeace[/MENTION] noted, above. It can be devastating.

Lately, I have been pondering the extent to which I, as an ENFj, can be best understood as a natural "performer" or "actor." As a performer, I need some time alone (and some silence) in order to function, because performing is exhausting. Imagine being a stage actor whose plays last eight hours each, and imagine having to "be on stage" the whole time day after day after day. No stage actor is expected to do that. It would be impossible, as it is impossible for ENFj to be "on its game" and "performing" at all times. But imagine what happens when the performer is actually performing, and his or her performance is greeted with silence. Ouch!

A performer's audience has three choices: 1) applaud and appreciate (that's what the performer really wants), or 2) boo and throw rotten vegetables (not what the performer wants), or 3) just not show up for the show (i.e. silence). Frankly, I'd rather get the boos and the vegetables than the silence. Nothing is worse than pouring all your immense energy into a performance only to be greeted with an audience that is silent--effectively "not present" and not even "attending" the show. Under these circumstances, I'd call silence passive aggression, and that's how I feel that silence is often being used by those who actively remain silent when, under the normal, polite rules of conversation, some kind of response would be appropriate.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

I think silence can be pretentious. When someone is speaking to you, and you respond to them with an extended silence, you may think you're just "processing" what you just heard, but the person speaking may perceive that silence as a kind of rejection, as if you were saying, in actions, not words, "What you have to say is of so little importance to me that it doesn't even deserve a response." Taken further, continued silence to that same person who's trying to talk to you says, "YOU are of so little importance to me that YOU don't even deserve a response." That can hurt, as [MENTION=25377]SearchingforPeace[/MENTION] noted, above. It can be devastating.

Lately, I have been pondering the extent to which I, as an ENFj, can be best understood as a natural "performer" or "actor." As a performer, I need some time alone (and some silence) in order to function, because performing is exhausting. Imagine being a stage actor who's plays last eight hours each, and imagine having to "be on stage" the whole time day after day after day. No stage actor is expected to do that. It would be impossible, as it is impossible for ENFj to be "on its game" and "performing" at all times. But imagine what happens when the performer is actually performing, and his or her performance is greeted with silence. Ouch!

A performer's audience has three choices: 1) applaud and appreciate (that's what the performer really wants), or 2) boo and throw rotten vegetables (not what the performer wants), or 3) just not show up for the show (i.e. silence). Frankly, I'd rather get the boos and the vegetables than the silence. Nothing is worse than pouring all your immense energy into a performance only to be greeted with an audience that is silent--effectively "not present" and not even "attending" the show. Under these circumstances, I'd call silence passive aggression, and that's how I feel that silence is often being used by those who actively remain silent when, under the normal, polite rules of conversation, some kind of response would be appropriate.

I like the idea of ENFJ as performers.... I must admit to "performing" at times, especially in public.

What if there is no audience, except for you? Growth for ENFJs is going inside to those areas we reject and ignore.

Ultimately, the audience does not really have a requirement to watch, and can always walk away if they don't like the performance.

 

[Kheledon]

I like the idea of ENFJ as performers.... I must admit to "performing" at times, especially in public.

What if there is no audience, except for you? Growth for ENFJs is going inside to those areas we reject and ignore.

Ultimately, the audience does not really have a requirement to watch, and can always walk away if they don't like the performance.

First, let me say that I feel that you are being quite kind and generous--"performing" for me (and our assembled audience) and trying to "help" me to the best of your ability. That feels like a healthy ENFj to me.

Second, however, I would like to add that I have been spending a lot of time in my inferior function (Ti), my PoLR, lately--just thinking, and thinking, and troubleshooting, and trying to find the best way forward when my Ni (secondary) tells me there's no good path to take as, it appears, my choices are all bad to varying degrees. Socionics predicts that this retreat into Ti is quite unhealthy for an ENFj (EIE-Fe). Instead, what I am supposed to do when my FeNi program loop fails me is to turn to Se. I need to just get out of my head and observe--get some new stimulus, meet new people, hear new voices, expose myself to new sensations. Instead, I shut myself up, runimate (Ti), and give myself an ulcer. The body speaks (through pain) and expresses the utter helplessness I feel when my FeNi program just doesn't work the way I want it to.

Third, I'd like to address your specific question, to wit: "What if there is no audience, except for you?" Indeed. What good to anyone is a performer without an audience? Here, my typical strategy (when I get slightly more healthy) is to find another audience. I reach out to family, friends, or people on an internet forum. I have an overwhelming desire to be performing for someone. Otherwise, I feel I am noone. That's the major downside of extraversion, imo, for the ENFj. All the same, I hear your advice. I might be happier if I could learn to perform "for myself" a little more often. Instead, I neglect myself more often than not when I am emotionally distressed, in the typical, self-sacrificing, doormat-like, overly-giving, and occasionally even self-immolating ENFj way.

Fourth, let me add that you are quite correct to say that "the audience does not really have a requirement to watch, and can always walk away if they don't like the performance." That's almost always true, and it is also outrageously painful when the person who's "walking away" is the person who ought to be the one who's most invested in your emotional health, i.e. your mate. This kind of rejection is almost unbearable (for me, at least). My options become (1) suck it up and deal with the fact that my mate knows it hurts me when she actively ignores me, but she's going to do it anyway, and will tell me so with either words or actions, in her typical, alpha quadrant way that is fueled by the alphas' belief that "we're all free, and you can't make me do anything, and my need (to get away from all the negative Fe you're giving off) must come first," or (2) find a new audience. Both options stink. I don't want a new audience. That's why I married the person I did. Now what? Here my FeNi ego block fails me. As I mentioned before, Socionics seems to suggest that, under these circumstances, I should turn to Se rather than Ti (pain).

Finally, as you almost certainly noticed, I have been riffing on the "ENFj as a performer" theme for a while lately, and I have collected (for easy access) some links to my latest ramblings (performances) on that subject. Here:

http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...ype/44645-anakin-skywalker-7.html#post2591762
http://www.typologycentral.com/foru.../33306-depressed-isfp-look-4.html#post2591674
http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...nships-vast-majority-fail-11.html#post2591775
http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...fj-/79347-enfx-cult-leader-5.html#post2592526
http://www.typologycentral.com/foru.../78372-silence-pretentious-6.html#post2593599

All this came about from my identification with the description of the ENFj male as "Hamlet" by various Socionics theorists. It just seems to fit me well.

More here:

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/59-Hamlet-Male-portrait-ENFj-by-Beskova
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/38-ENFj-description-Filatova
http://www.socioniko.net/en/1.1.types/et.html

Thanks for the response.

 

[jcloudz]

sometimes silence is, I dont want to screw things up further an want to put things into perspective

 

[Kheledon]

sometimes silence is, I dont want to screw things up further an want to put things into perspective

For what it's worth, my ISFp mate regularly says, "I'm being quiet because whatever I say will just make things worse."

Well, when your primary motivations are comfort and harmony, then yes, addressing a conflict with your mate will create some discomfort, and it will temporarily disrupt harmony. That said, ISFp can't see the future very well and doesn't seem to realize that unaddressed conflict is likely to create even greater discomfort and even greater disharmony in the future. Either way, ISFp seems to be saying that its needs must come first--"sorry you're hurting, but I can't help you right now," is my ISFp's standard, irrational argument, and it is reflected by her behavior.