No heaven above us and no hell below us

[Opal]

I see Hell and Heaven as states run by Karma, but made up of disparate dimensions mixing for wholly unique experiences.

 

[Evee]

What about when your heart, your mind, and your spirit are resting in the soothing, peaceful darkness of night, reflecting and nurturing seeds of creativity and insight, much as an unborn child gestates in the darkness of the womb?

This light/good - dark/bad correspondence is unhelpful and just plain inaccurate. One is as blind in a room flooded with light as in complete darkness.

Mind and heart both presuppose Being, and Being presupposes Being-in-time (To have a beginning and an end).

We are beyond good and evil and so I don't wish to play Either/Or with you.

What I was trying to illustrate by contrasting light and dark was our modes of Being in truth, or untruth, or, unhiddenness, and hiddenness.

We are creative and insightful only when we are self consciously aware.

What insights are there to be gained in a world (or lack of), completely void of truth (uncovering)? There would be no Being at all so it is literally meaningless to speak of.

 

[Coriolis]

Mind and heart both presuppose Being, and Being presupposes Being-in-time (To have a beginning and an end).

We are beyond good and evil and so I don't wish to play Either/Or with you.

What I was trying to illustrate by contrasting light and dark was our modes of Being in truth, or untruth, or, unhiddenness, and hiddenness.

We are creative and insightful only when we are self consciously aware.

What insights are there to be gained in a world (or lack of), completely void of truth (uncovering)? There would be no Being at all so it is literally meaningless to speak of.

There is more to being, to a person, than simply heart, which is why I added the others.

Good/evil, truth/untruth - one is positive, the other negative; one to be desired, the other to be avoided. Whatever one calls it, I consider it a false association. Open and hidden is a bit closer to reality, and more useful. Active and receptive work as well.

What insights are to be gained in a world full only of light? No more than in a world of darkness. Truth and meaning itself come from the combination of the two and the contrast between them. Untruth is simply meaning that does not correspond with reality. The absence of truth is not untruth, but meaninglessness. Truth that remains covered is still truth, we are simply still ignorant of it.

 

[Evee]

There is more to being, to a person, than simply heart, which is why I added the others.

Good/evil, truth/untruth - one is positive, the other negative; one to be desired, the other to be avoided. Whatever one calls it, I consider it a false association. Open and hidden is a bit closer to reality, and more useful. Active and receptive work as well.

I do not associate truth and untruth with good and evil, but I do think there is meaning to be found in truth, whereas in untruth, there can be no meaning.

 

[Coriolis]

I do not associate truth and untruth with good and evil, but I do think there is meaning to be found in truth, whereas in untruth, there can be no meaning.

I see untruth not as the absence of meaning, but rather meaning which is false, wrong, inaccurate.

 

[Evee]

What insights are to be gained in a world full only of light? No more than in a world of darkness. Truth and meaning itself come from the combination of the two and the contrast between them. Untruth is simply meaning that does not correspond with reality. The absence of truth is not untruth, but meaninglessness. Truth that remains covered is still truth, we are simply still ignorant of it.

Since only man discloses (makes unhidden), truth, therefore, must be a characteristic of man, and thus, only when there is Being can insight be possible.

Truth is not an object that exists in the world, waiting to be unhidden by man, rather, it is the phenomenon of uncovering itself.

Only the ways in which we make use of the world are meaningful, thus, meaning, like truth, is a characteristic of Being.

The absence of truth therefore is an absence of Being, because truth is a characteristic of Being.

And the absence of Being would not be meaninglessness, but rather, it would be an absurdity.

 

[Coriolis]

Since only man discloses (makes unhidden), truth, therefore, must be a characteristic of man, and thus, only when there is Being can insight be possible.

Truth is not an object that exists in the world, waiting to be unhidden by man, rather, it is the phenomenon of uncovering itself.

Only the ways in which we make use of the world are meaningful, thus, meaning, like truth, is a characteristic of Being.

The absence of truth therefore is an absence of Being, because truth is a characteristic of Being.

And the absence of Being would not be meaninglessness, but rather, it would be an absurdity.

Many people attribute the disclosure of truth to God, and see a divine aspect to truth itself. I think truth is exactly the highlighted, and the phenomenon of uncovering it is learning, or more broadly, growth. If only the ways in which we make use of the world are meaningful, then the entire rest of the world is meaningless on its own - the other animals, the plants, the very way the earth and cosmos are organized. I see no basis for such an anthropocentric view.

 

[Evee]

Many people attribute the disclosure of truth to God, and see a divine aspect to truth itself. I think truth is exactly the highlighted, and the phenomenon of uncovering it is learning, or more broadly, growth. If only the ways in which we make use of the world are meaningful, then the entire rest of the world is meaningless on its own - the other animals, the plants, the very way the earth and cosmos are organized. I see no basis for such an anthropocentric view.

Aletheia is the Ancient Greek word for 'truth', and it is defined as "unhiddenness".

"To be true" means "To be uncovering".

If we define truth as uncovering, then it obviously must be a characteristic of man, because only man most properly uncovers, and only in the sense of being uncovered can one say that "objects" are true.

So truth refers not to objects, but to Being itself, meaning that your propositional truth presupposes Being, because exactly who is making these propositions? Man is.

And only man is capable of leading a meaningful life, because only he has the ability to critically reflect upon his own existence and nature; only he who is firmly aware of his own possibilities, like the possibility of the impossibility of Being (Death), can live in truth and be free.

 

[Coriolis]

Aletheia is the Ancient Greek word for 'truth', and it is defined as "unhiddenness".

"To be true" means "To be uncovering".

If we define truth as uncovering, then it obviously must be a characteristic of man, because only man most properly uncovers, and only in the sense of being uncovered can one say that "objects" are true.

So truth refers not to objects, but to Being itself, meaning that your propositional truth presupposes Being, because exactly who is making these propositions? Man is.

And only man is capable of leading a meaningful life, because only he has the ability to critically reflect upon his own existence and nature; only he who is firmly aware of his own possibilities, like the possibility of the impossibility of Being (Death), can live in truth and be free.

I don't define truth this way. Nor do I communicate in ancient Greek. It is fine to understand etymology, but when explaining my own thoughts I am more interested in how words in the language I am using are used today.

"Man" can make all the propositions he wants, but not all of them will be true as not all of them will reflect reality.

I have heard such distinctions made between humans and other life forms. On one level it makes sense, or at least is satisfying, to make this this distinction, but I am not entirely convinced.

 

[miss fortune]

I'm not actually convinced that there is such a thing as true, in an absolute sense

 

[Qlip]

I can't hang with all that up there. I have an introduction to Heidegger, but I haven't cracked it, I may not ever. I seem to be getting more shallow as I get older.

I have noticed that some things can only come into existence if you lie first, some really great things. When that actually happens, the lie somehow never was to begin with.

 

[Evee]

I don't define truth this way. Nor do I communicate in ancient Greek. It is fine to understand etymology, but when explaining my own thoughts I am more interested in how words in the language I am using are used today.

I understand where you're coming from, but it helps if we both understand the origin, and meaning of the words we're using as a focus of this discussion, or things will quickly become quite problematic.

"Man" can make all the propositions he wants, but not all of them will be true as not all of them will reflect reality.

I don't think that man determines what the truth is, nor do I think that man has the power of arbitrarily assigning truth values to things, but since truth is defined as unhiddenness or disclosure, and since only man discloses, truth then, can only exist as a possible way in which man exists.

I have heard such distinctions made between humans and other life forms. On one level it makes sense, or at least is satisfying, to make this this distinction, but I am not entirely convinced.

Fair 'nuff.

 

[Evee]

I'm not actually convinced that there is such a thing as true, in an absolute sense

 

[Coriolis]

I understand where you're coming from, but it helps if we both understand the origin, and meaning of the words we're using as a focus of this discussion, or things will quickly become quite problematic.

I don't think that man determines what the truth is, nor do I think that man has the power of arbitrarily assigning truth values to things, but since truth is defined as unhiddenness or disclosure, and since only man discloses, truth then, can only exist as a possible way in which man exists.

Things become problematic only if we are using different definitions AND do not realize it.

The highlighted was a significant part of my point. We don't determine what is true, we just figure it out, or as you put it, we uncover (discover?) it. I disagree, though, that humans are the only beings who can disclose truth, but then the validity of this statement depends on one's definition of truth.

 

[Evee]

Things become problematic only if we are using different definitions AND do not realize it.

That's true.

The highlighted was a significant part of my point. We don't determine what is true, we just figure it out, or as you put it, we uncover (discover?) it. I disagree, though, that humans are the only beings who can disclose truth, but then the validity of this statement depends on one's definition of truth.

Language is essential for thought, and language is unique to human beings.

 

[Coriolis]

Language is essential for thought, and language is unique to human beings.

That is debatable. Animals have been shown to communicate some rather specific things, to each other and to humans. I'm no expert on this area of research, but I have read/seen some convincing evidence.

 

[Evee]

That is debatable. Animals have been shown to communicate some rather specific things, to each other and to humans. I'm no expert on this area of research, but I have read/seen some convincing evidence.

"If a lion could speak, we could not understand him." Wittgenstein (PI, p.223)

 

[Poki]

I'm not actually convinced that there is such a thing as true, in an absolute sense

Just situations and opinions

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I don't think that man determines what the truth is, nor do I think that man has the power of arbitrarily assigning truth values to things, but since truth is defined as unhiddenness or disclosure, and since only man discloses, truth then, can only exist as a possible way in which man exists.
.

How do we know that only man discloses? Perhaps dolphins disclose in their dolphin-click language.

 

[Poki]

I understand where you're coming from, but it helps if we both understand the origin, and meaning of the words we're using as a focus of this discussion, or things will quickly become quite problematic.



I don't think that man determines what the truth is, nor do I think that man has the power of arbitrarily assigning truth values to things, but since truth is defined as unhiddenness or disclosure, and since only man discloses, truth then, can only exist as a possible way in which man exists.



Fair 'nuff.

They sure as hell try to assign truth values to things.

Define discloses and why only man discloses. Some believe nature discloses in due time. It hides until it decides it wants certain things to be found.