Coronavirus

[Jaguar]

COVID-19 is caused by a virus. If you want to talk about treatment for bacterial infections, start a new thread.

 

[á´…eparted]

It was used, and still is used by Eastern European nations. It only went out of use in the west due to competition with anti-biotics also being created at the same time. It isn't "homeopathy", and has been tested. Did you even read the article, or did you just dismiss it because I posted it? Also, "Alternative medicine" is essential, especially for treating evolving pathogens, that will eventually make antibiotics obsolete. I also don't understand the whole shitting on possible cures thing. Since there is no current cure for Corona, it should be common sense to review, test, and try out different treatments that might work. Why is that a bad thing? Do you think something has to have 100% success, tried and true for years, before it is ever talked about? A lot of treatments in medicine are not 100% successful.

Abstract
Ultraviolet blood irradiation (UBI) was extensively used in the 1940s and 1950s to treat many diseases including septicemia, pneumonia, tuberculosis, arthritis, asthma and even poliomyelitis. The early studies were carried out by several physicians in USA and published in the American Journal of Surgery. However with the development of antibiotics, the use of UBI declined and it has now been called “the cure that time forgot”. Later studies were mostly performed by Russian workers and in other Eastern countries, and the modern view in Western countries is that UBI remains highly controversial. This review discusses the potential of UBI as an alternative approach to current methods used to treat infections, as an immune-modulating therapy and as a method for normalizing blood parameters. Low and mild doses of UV kill microorganisms by damaging the DNA, while any DNA damage in host cells can be rapidly repaired by DNA repair enzymes. However the use of UBI to treat septicemia cannot be solely due to UV-mediated killing of bacteria in the bloodstream, as only 5–7% of blood volume needs to be treated with UV to produce the optimum benefit, and higher doses can be damaging. There may be some similarities to extracorporeal photopheresis (ECP) using psoralens and UVA irradiation. However there are differences between UBI and ECP in that UBI tends to stimulate the immune system, while ECP tends to be immunosuppressive. With the recent emergence of bacteria that are resistant to all known antibiotics, UBI should be more investigated as an alternative approach to infections, and as an immune-modulating therapy.

Please stop.

You don't understand this. You have no background in medicine. You need to admit to yourself that this is outside of your depth and listen to modern quality experts. Not yourself digging into the literature that you can't comprehend.

Read my post above this for a sense of what real scientific innovation is.

 

[Jonny]

It was used, and still is used by Eastern European nations. It only went out of use in the west due to competition with anti-biotics also being created at the same time. It isn't "homeopathy", and has been tested. Did you even read the article, or did you just dismiss it because I posted it? Also, "Alternative medicine" is essential, especially for treating evolving pathogens, that will eventually make antibiotics obsolete. I also don't understand the whole shitting on possible cures thing. Since there is no current cure for Corona, it should be common sense to review, test, and try out different treatments that might work. Why is that a bad thing? Do you think something has to have 100% success, tried and true for years, before it is ever talked about? A lot of treatments in medicine are not 100% successful.

Abstract
Ultraviolet blood irradiation (UBI) was extensively used in the 1940s and 1950s to treat many diseases including septicemia, pneumonia, tuberculosis, arthritis, asthma and even poliomyelitis. The early studies were carried out by several physicians in USA and published in the American Journal of Surgery. However with the development of antibiotics, the use of UBI declined and it has now been called “the cure that time forgot”. Later studies were mostly performed by Russian workers and in other Eastern countries, and the modern view in Western countries is that UBI remains highly controversial. This review discusses the potential of UBI as an alternative approach to current methods used to treat infections, as an immune-modulating therapy and as a method for normalizing blood parameters. Low and mild doses of UV kill microorganisms by damaging the DNA, while any DNA damage in host cells can be rapidly repaired by DNA repair enzymes. However the use of UBI to treat septicemia cannot be solely due to UV-mediated killing of bacteria in the bloodstream, as only 5–7% of blood volume needs to be treated with UV to produce the optimum benefit, and higher doses can be damaging. There may be some similarities to extracorporeal photopheresis (ECP) using psoralens and UVA irradiation. However there are differences between UBI and ECP in that UBI tends to stimulate the immune system, while ECP tends to be immunosuppressive. With the recent emergence of bacteria that are resistant to all known antibiotics, UBI should be more investigated as an alternative approach to infections, and as an immune-modulating therapy.

Rumor has it Trump is now claiming he was being sarcastic when he made the statement. How does it feel to be constantly playing defense with all of his nonsense? I can only imagine you furiously scouring the internet, running from your own cognitive dissonance, trying to find the stray article here or there that could help you continue to support him. You look like a damn fool.

Trump says remarks about heat, light, disinfectant were sarcastic | TheHill

 

[Maou]

Please stop.

You don't understand this. You have no background in medicine. You need to admit to yourself that this is outside of your depth and listen to modern quality experts. Not yourself digging into the literature that you can't comprehend.

Read my post above this for a sense of what real scientific innovation is.

Says the random person, also talking about shit out of their depth. As well as many other people in this thread. When is sharing an article suddenly a bad thing? Because I posted it right? Get off your high horse. You don't get to decide shit.

 

[á´…eparted]

Says the random person, also talking about shit out of their depth. As well as many other people in this thread. When is sharing an article suddenly a bad thing? Because I posted it right? Get off your high horse. You don't get to decide shit.

...what? I LITERALLY have a degree in this shit. I am emphatically not out of my depth .

Did you even READ what I wrote?

 

[Jaguar]

When backlash reveals the ever-growing tree of ignorance and stupidity inside his skull, he cries out "I was being sarcastic!"

 

[Maou]

Rumor has it Trump is now claiming he was being sarcastic when he made the statement. How does it feel to be constantly playing defense with all of his nonsense? I can only imagine you furiously scouring the internet, running from your own cognitive dissonance, trying to find the stray article here or there that could help you continue to support him. You look like a damn fool.

Trump says remarks about heat, light, disinfectant were sarcastic | TheHill

Don't have to, because the title is misleading. He was addressing a reporter's question, and responded to their question sarcastically about using hand santitizer and the sun. The sarcasm wasn't about the study the doctor was talking about. I am sorry you guys have such a hard time understanding Trump. He does dpeak in a peculiar way.

- - - Updated - - -

...what? I LITERALLY have a degree in this shit. I am emphatically not out of my depth .

Did you even READ what I wrote?

Nope. Dont care.

 

[Jaguar]

.

"I can't listen to the shit in this thread any longer."

 

[á´…eparted]

Nope. Dont care.

Someone put this in a FRAME.

Like, seriously. This exemplifies EVERYTHING that is wrong with Trump supporters. It's not just Maou.

And why there will come a point where they need to be utterly ignored, or in some way corked. It's not about engaging in meaningful discussion, it's about "winning".

 

[Maou]

Someone put this in a FRAME.

Like, seriously. This exemplifies EVERYTHING that is wrong with Trump supporters. It's not just Maou.

And why there will come a point where they need to be utterly ignored, or in some way corked. It's not about engaging in meaningful discussion, it's about "winning".

Maybe it's because you treat me like shit. Ever thought of that? But wait, that requires self awareness.

 

[á´…eparted]

Maybe it's because you treat me like shit. Ever thought of that? But wait, that requires self awareness.

Respect is earned, not given.

 

[ceecee]

Maybe it's because you treat me like shit. Ever thought of that? But wait, that requires self awareness.

So you will dismiss facts because.....your feelings are hurt?

 

[cascadeco]

Maybe it's because you treat me like shit. Ever thought of that? But wait, that requires self awareness.

Isoprene has demonstrated far more patience with you than you deserve, and has repeatedly tried to engage rationally and calmly, bringing actual content into the thread, vs being trump's mouthpiece. Pretty much any backlash you experience you've directed very equal amounts towards him. Isoprene has much more empathy for you than I, which is why it is really, truly ironic that you think he 'treats you like shit'. He has extended you far more grace -- attempts at it -- than you deserve at this point.

This is my favorite recent exchange between you two, and completely shows isoprene's willingness to attempt to continue engaging with you, despite the complete futility of it, and despite your accusing him of stuff he didn't even do. I find this priceless.

That is not the SciShow video I commented on and liked, it was one weeks prior where you linked this video. I can't be arsed to go back and find that exact post, but I commented that I HIGHLY recommend SciShow as a channel because they are very good at explaining complex subject matters in a very accessible manner without losing or warping the details/meaning.

I saw your post you are quoting recently and while I was happy to see that you shared another scishow video, I found your paragraph explaining your thoughts to be awful so I never liked the post.

Indeed, your memory is not accurate or consistent. You are creating the reality you want to exist, not the one that actually does.

Oh my bad, I didn't realized I shared two of them. Sorry for suspecting you of unliking it.

I am surprised you havn't blocked me tbh. But thanks for clarifying that I posted two videos, and not just the one. They had a similar title. I do not have the best memory, correct. I am often inebriated as well. The anti-depressants didn't help much either in that regard, they made my memory more fucky that it already was.

I haven't written you off because you aren't a cruel person and retain an intact empathy.

I do hope this illustrates to you to you that you can be mislead, and particularly that you can mislead yourself, and that you can very easily see what you want to see, or what you expect to see.

 

[Red Memories]

Someone put this in a FRAME.

Like, seriously. This exemplifies EVERYTHING that is wrong with Trump supporters. It's not just Maou.

And why there will come a point where they need to be utterly ignored, or in some way corked. It's not about engaging in meaningful discussion, it's about "winning".

I mean...technically if I suggest anything outside the progressive norm that people think I should think I am also told my opinion doesn't matter, and I voted for Clinton. I'm not really sure anyone isn't a guilty party of the "I don't care" club when it comes to certain people. These kinds of people exist on both sides because we have a society of echo chambers.

 

[Red Memories]

This is rather a side tangent but there are actually some fairly exciting developments in medicine taking advantage of light, though they have nothing to do that stuff. Some of the most interesting are more for diagnostic purposes in medical imaging. These compounds, known as near-infrared dyes, allow for extremely find levels of detail in tissues that couldn't normally be imaged. Essentially, organic chemists are working on developing new classes of materials that dissolve in aqueous media (or are compatible in aqueous media via some added linker), have a good quantum yield (roughly the percentage of light absorb/emission in its known absorbance/emitted range), and primarily absorb light in the near-infrared range. The reason near-infrared light is chosen is our tissues are actually rather transparent to it allowing light to pass through our body with minimal scattering or absorbance. It's a somewhat narrow window though because water has a lot of absorbance modes in the infrared range. Overall there are a lot of challenges with this.

There are a lot of exciting developments, and some working prototypes. What these will be most useful for is tumor imaging. You can visualize small cappaliry veins at a resolution you haven't been able to achieve. Once the dyes have been made you conjugate them with an antibody or some biological ligand moiety that will bind to the tissues of interest.

I mean, check out this image. This is of a mouse head, the middle image is with shorter waved infrared which tissues too broadly scatter, so you don't get many details even with a good dye. The right image is at a much longer infrared dye (in the "shortwave" range; yeah the name is kinda confusing). MUCH less scattering, and with a good dye you get SO much detail! This has the potential to completely revolutionize medical imaging.

It really shows you how much detail is enabled by these. Ellen Sletten is whom I consider to be the biggest innovator with this right now as she is pushing for shortwave infrared dyes in the 1300nm range (most dyes are less than 1000nm where scattering is a lot higher). The shortwave goal is much more challenging, but with much higher potential. One of the primary issues right now is with solubility. You have to make some pretty big chromophores to lower the absorbance frequency as low as it is. Typically, the lower you make the absorbance frequency the more unstable the molecule is and/or it becomes more reactive or toxic (sometimes significantly so). You can somewhat get around this by repeating chromophore patterns, but they are almost always aromatic rings which render the molecule insoluable in aqueous AND organic media. Finding that sweet spot is like asking little old lady with coke glasses to thread a needle. It is doable though, and people are figuring it out.

Why am I bringing this up? Well, it's just flat out interesting, but also to point out that in order to take advantage of light therapy of any kind... it gets pretty complicated. Biology is complex as fuck. Explaining my example hear illustrates an example of what REAL innovation is. There are SO many little details you need to account for. There are no quick fixes or easy solutions. Also note the example here uses infrared light; it's quite harmless to the body. Ultraviolet? Not so much. That's just, pretty much universally bad for the body, much more so to expose it to internal parts that haven't evolved to tolerate UV exposure like our outer parts are. There are bound to be a ton of unforseen consequences even if it were to kinda sorta almost work.

Like any "treatment" this administration pushes out, it's a complete non-starter on the surface from a scientific angle. So much so that even a lay person can tell it's bullshit.

Gotta say this dialogue is very interesting just considering the fact I do kinda like biology. I find the light dye a little confusing though. Is it the coloring of the light or does this involve an actual dye? Those xrays are pretty awesome though. I bet they'd help with things like, say my friend who has guinea pigs and takes them to the vet to get checked. You'd likely see way more this way.

 

[á´…eparted]

Gotta say this dialogue is very interesting just considering the fact I do kinda like biology. I find the light dye a little confusing though. Is it the coloring of the light or does this involve an actual dye? Those xrays are pretty awesome though. I bet they'd help with things like, say my friend who has guinea pigs and takes them to the vet to get checked. You'd likely see way more this way.

The image actually isn't an x-ray despite looking like one. It's merely black and white. A photograph can be captured using almost any type of light. In this case, the film (really, it's a camera with a detector in that frequency range) develops and darkens when exposed to infrared light frequencies. Xrays photographs do the same: the film darkens when exposed to xray light. However, this would be confusing to look at, so these raw film and camera pieces are the negatives of the film. When you process them, light becomes dark, and dark becomes light. It's just inverting the image brightness exactly like when you set your phone or camera to "negative". Below I am speaking of the negatives since that is what physically occurs.

In the photo you are seeing, the images can be produced because of a dye. What they do is they take the mouse (or any organism) and inject it with a near-infrared dye. That dye absorbs light in the near-infrared frequency range. Meaning, if you were to say take a thin disk of that material and shine an infrared light at it, the disk would absorb it and the light wouldn't pass through. As such, on the other side of the disk (assuming you could see infrared light) it would appear dark because the disk absorbed it. Now let's say you take a normal lightbulb and shine it at the thin disk of the near-infrared dye, and let's assume it doesn't absorb normal visible light. On the otherside of the disk it would appear bright because it was not absorbed and passed right through.

That is the principle going on in the mouse. If you inject the dye into the mouse, it's going to float around its veins, arteries, organs, anywhere fluids go. In some areas there will be more fluids than others. These dyes absorb - and therefore block - infrared light. So, if you shine an infrared light source at the mouse, and put a detector film, or camera that can detect infrared light, the areas where there are lots of dye in the mouse will block that light, and it will appeal dark on the film.

Then, when you process the film you simply invert that so dark becomes light, and light becomes dark (it's much easier to see that way).

The part that is innovative here is the detailed resolution. Biological flesh is obviously opaque to visible light, otherwise we'd be transparent, or worse, transluscent . However, some frequency ranges of infrared light is translucent or transparent to biological flesh. Because of this, if you shine an infrared light in the right frequency range at a body, it will go right through it and largely be invisible when put in front of a detector/film. It's not perfect though and in truth much of the light gets scattered (transluscent), so while light passes through, the image is blurry. Much like looking at a person through a frosted glass shower door. Sure, you can see them, but all you see is a blob with no detail.

The ideal situation is to have a dye that strongly absorbs a narrow frequency range of infrared light, and have that frequency of infrared light be as close to transparent to biological flesh as possible. Why? Because then the ONLY light that will be visualized is light that is blocked by the dyes. If you can achieve this, and attach moieties (basically things hanging off the dye itself) that tell the dye where to go in the body, you can use it to take medical images in high resolution that we have not been able to do in the past.

Hopefully this makes more sense!

 

[Virtual ghost]

+36500 new daily cases for US from what I see (plus almost 2000 dead). Now imagine what will be with open economy.

 

[anticlimatic]

+36500 new daily cases for US from what I see (plus almost 2000 dead). Now imagine what will be with open economy.

I guess we will find out for sure soon enough.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I saw this article several days ago, and today's numbers for Ecuador of +11,000+ are probably due to accounting for folks who hadn't been accounted for yet, and might now more accurately reflect what's going on there per the article. ofc it goes without saying that all of the numbers for every country are going to be estimates/much higher in reality, or won't reflect true numbers, but I guess we can at least observe trends and have a rough gauge of how every country is faring.

Coronavirus Crisis In Ecuador May Be Worse Than The Number Show : Goats and Soda : NPR

That or they simply started to seriously test people (or test people under suspicion).
By now the 3rd world is probably full of virus. Therefore if you start mass testing you will probably find plenty of cases.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I guess we will find out for sure soon enough.

Well, that is kinda the main problem. (or main point)



But ok, a number of countries messed up the response. This isn't US only category.
However once you pass certain point even the general lock-down doesn't really help anymore and constant spills start anyway. (households, grocery stores, hospitals, etc)



This will indeed be one big social experiment in the end.