[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

[SD45T-2]

haha. What is it about ISTPs that attracts you? Because you seem to have collected a few of them.

Common interests, I suppose. I'm into cars, trains, guns, planes, and stuff like that. I've always been interested in mechanical stuff. I was home schooled, and when I was fairly young my mom read me The Way Things Work by David Macaulay. I understood most of it right away and ended up having to explain it to her a lot of the time.

I certainly don't get along with all ISTPs, but I don't get along with every single person of any other type either.

On that note, are there any good ways to tell when a Te-dom/ESTJ is just looking confident...but not actually feeling confident?

There are times when I tell people that I'm worried about stuff. Sometimes that just makes things worse.

For some reason people tend to think that I'm smarter and more capable than I actually am. So when I voice my worries about something like a college course people tend to not take me very seriously and expect me to do well anyway. Then I'm not only worried about my ability to do the course, I'm also stressed out by their unrealistic expectations. Then people are surprised and disappointed with me when I crash and burn immediately and have to drop out.

 

[SilkRoad]

^ Well, I am definitely not an ESTJ but I actually relate to some of what you wrote above. I tend to look calm and cool, mostly (even if I'm a nervous wreck inside, which happens a bit too often). So people often assume that I'm totally fine with everything, I have everything under control, I don't get upset about anything, and sometimes (basically) that I have no feelings. And apparently I can even say to people "I'm very sensitive and can get my feelings badly hurt, and I get stressed a lot" etc etc and they still don't get it.

(self-pitying rant over) What I mean is... that's kind of an unexpected curse of looking like you're in control!

 

[SD45T-2]

What I mean is... that's kind of an unexpected curse of looking like you're in control!

Yep.

Hmm...you're in the U.K. Surely you of all people are familiar with marmalade. What do you think?

 

[SilkRoad]

Yep.

Hmm...you're in the U.K. Surely you of all people are familiar with marmalade. What do you think?

You're obsessed with marmalade! I'm afraid I'm not a big fan. Sorry. In my family, I think my (Canadian of English/Irish descent) father is the only real marmalade fan.

 

[EJCC]

(self-pitying rant over) What I mean is... that's kind of an unexpected curse of looking like you're in control!

Very true! I relate to both you and SD45T-2 in that regard -- you especially, because the "control" that people assume I always have, is control over my feelings. So when I finally can't hold onto my emotions anymore, the response from my friends is less supportive and more "Holy Shit!" Which is frustrating, and in my opinion it's what separates my true friends from my friendly acquaintances. (This could be why I have so many INFJ friends! You guys understand, because you are the same way!)

(Another note: I've had better luck than SD45T-2, in that, for the most part, people believe me when I tell them that I'm bad at something. I'm very thankful for that! Saves me a lot of embarrassment.)

Hmm...you're in the U.K. Surely you of all people are familiar with marmalade. What do you think?

You know... your love of marmalade made me assume that you were from the UK, but you live in Northern California? So when/where did you get a hold of marmalade for the first time?

 

[SD45T-2]

You know... your love of marmalade made me assume that you were from the UK, but you live in Northern California? So when/where did you get a hold of marmalade for the first time?

I've lived in California my entire life. My dad's family originated in Oxfordshire, but that was a long time ago.

I first heard about it from Paddington Bear books my mom read to me when I was little: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddington_Bear

I came across it at the Trader Joe's down the street. I don't know if there are any in your area: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trader_Joe's


From page 172:

Sorry, I couldn't resist teasing you about it. You typically use it like jam or fruit curd and put it on bread or scones.

Dundee is the way to go, IMHO: http://www.dundeemarmalade.com/dundee.html

The varieties: http://www.dundeemarmalade.com/marmalades.html

I used to be able to get Dundee at Trader Joe's and some supermarkets. Awhile back Trader Joe's replaced it with their own brand of orange marmalade (which tasted flat to me), and now I can't find it at other stores either. Bloody hell!

At least there's still Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...rch-alias=aps&field-keywords=dundee+marmalade

Also:

Is there any particular reason you're into trains? Does someone in your family work for a railroad? Was there a lot of railroad activity in the area where you grew up? If you ever have any railroad related questions be sure to let me know!

Do you know any other people your age who are into the Marx Brothers? My best friend (ISTJ 5w6 sp/so) is a fan but he's old enough to be my dad, and he was a little surprsied when he found out I was too because he hadn't encountered any people in their teens/twenties who were.

 

[RaptorWizard]

We need less ESTJs running our education systems and more ISTPs students radically rebelling against the big bosses!

 

[EJCC]

I've lived in California my entire life. My dad's family originated in Oxfordshire, but that was a long time ago.

That's cool! Do you ever visit there?

From page 172:

Whoops! Sorry.

Also:
Is there any particular reason you're into trains? Does someone in your family work for a railroad? Was there a lot of railroad activity in the area where you grew up? If you ever have any railroad related questions be sure to let me know!

There was a lot of railroad activity where I grew up; the trains didn't run terribly close to me, but train tracks run through almost my entire town, and sometimes if I was up late enough I could listen to the train whistles as I was going to sleep. I also loved all those movies, when people would hitchhike on trains to get where they needed to go, or escape to a different life. That romanticized image really appealed to me.

I don't know if I have any railroad questions... because I don't necessarily know a lot about them, except that they're awesome as a unit/concept/thing. I guess... why is your favorite train your favorite train?

Do you know any other people your age who are into the Marx Brothers? My best friend (ISTJ 5w6 sp/so) is a fan but he's old enough to be my dad, and he was a little surprsied when he found out I was too because he hadn't encountered any people in their teens/twenties who were.

I don't know about being into the Marx Brothers, but I have lots of friends who like them. Generally, I don't have a lot of friends who go out of their way to see old movies in general -- although no one complained when I made all my friends watch "It's A Wonderful Life" during Finals Week last December. I love Frank Capra!

We need less ESTJs running our education systems and more ISTPs students radically rebelling against the big bosses!

No... We need more people who LISTEN, running our education systems (and everything else). We need more people who are willing to make progress.

Those people could easily still be ESTJs.

 

[EJCC]

So, I just re-discovered an essay I wrote when I was 18, to get a $1,000 college scholarship. The prompt was: If you could travel back in time, what would you do, and why? My answer: I would slap Socrates upside the head. My reasons: the most ESTJ things you have ever read in your life.

1. He deserved it, for being obnoxious, arrogant and generally infuriating, and for verbally slapping so many people throughout his “career”.

2. He was a hypocrite. He wanted to show the world that no one truly understands anything, and yet, at the same time, he clearly thought that he understood the world better than anyone else. However, if no one understands anything, then everyone’s knowledge is equal; so, what gave Socrates the right to be so egotistical?

3. Although the so-called “Socratic Method” has its redeeming qualities when used in present day, when it is used the way it was intended to be used (i.e. the way that Socrates himself used it), it is simply a cruel and unusual way to tell a person that they are ignorant, by making fun of them, and playing with them the way a cat plays with a mouse before ripping it to shreds. By slapping Socrates upside the head, I would simply be doing what his “victims” (such as Euthyphro) would have done, had they not been overly polite.

4. None of his “dialogues” did any good. The point of a dialogue is to get something done, or prepare for something to get done. However, the purpose of Socrates’ dialogues was to convince people that they knew nothing, which did not help anyone to get anything done! When it succeeded, one would presume that they would be convinced to do what he did, i.e. protest everything that is flawed, but not suggest any alternatives (because apparently Socrates didn’t understand the idea of “the lesser of two evils”). Not only is this counterproductive, but this is a waste of time. Honestly, if Socrates cared so much about helping people, couldn’t he have used his massive brain to go find new and creative ways to feed the poor, instead of unnecessarily crushing people’s egos for a living?

5. It is the fault of Socrates that we, in the twenty-first century, have to deal with pretentious, arrogant intellectuals who perceive themselves to be “gadflies”, when they’re actually burdens on society who do nothing useful for a living!

My favorite part, is that I ended up getting the scholarship.

 

[SilkRoad]

That's awesome. "His dialogues did not help anyone to get anything done" - that's like the most ESTJ analysis ever.

I love it! It's actually really good and well argued (just funny with its ESTJ righteous indignation.) And well done with the scholarship!

 

[EJCC]

That's awesome. "His dialogues did not help anyone to get anything done" - that's like the most ESTJ analysis ever.

I love it! It's actually really good and well argued (just funny with its ESTJ righteous indignation.) And well done with the scholarship!

Thanks! I was surprised that I got it, at the time, but I guess that meant that either

1) I had succeeded in my goal (i.e. of making the essay-readers laugh), or
2) they cared more about my GPA (which was pretty high) than the essay.

Either way, it was a win! And I can't believe I didn't notice how ESTJ it was, at the time, since I definitely had heard of the MBTI (and was a TypeC forum member -- or maybe it was MBTIc?) when I wrote it.

Edit: Speaking of things being totally true to your type... Did I tell you that your signature is the most gloriously INFJ thing ever??

 

[SilkRoad]

Edit: Speaking of things being totally true to your type... Did I tell you that your signature is the most gloriously INFJ thing ever??

Haha! I've had a lot of comments on that sig. It was a sarcastic commentary on that doorslamming thread. A bit unworthy of me (I don't REALLY heart doorslamming...it's more like "very occasionally necessary, but not fun.") But I do like the sig.

 

[SD45T-2]

That's cool! Do you ever visit there?

No, I've never been outside the United States. Hopefully some day I'll be able to travel more.

There was a lot of railroad activity where I grew up; the trains didn't run terribly close to me, but train tracks run through almost my entire town, and sometimes if I was up late enough I could listen to the train whistles as I was going to sleep.

You may find this interesting: http://atsf.railfan.net/airhorns/index.html

I've lived my entire life in what used to be the heart of Southern Pacific territory. This is what's going on these days: http://www.uprr.com/aboutup/facilities/davis.shtml

I don't know if I have any railroad questions... because I don't necessarily know a lot about them, except that they're awesome as a unit/concept/thing. I guess... why is your favorite train your favorite train?

Well, everyone loves 4449 because she's the prettiest. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Pacific_4449

I've always wanted to ride this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_(train) 1950s vintage Budd Company stainless steel cars (including dome cars). It's certainly much more retro and classy than anything Amtrak has.

 

[Giggly]

So, I just re-discovered an essay I wrote when I was 18, to get a $1,000 college scholarship. The prompt was: If you could travel back in time, what would you do, and why? My answer: I would slap Socrates upside the head. My reasons: the most ESTJ things you have ever read in your life.


My favorite part, is that I ended up getting the scholarship.

That was too funny and most awesome!

 

[Giggly]

Dear ESTJs,

Do you consider yourself a Type A personality?

If so, would you prefer being a relationship with someone who was Type A, Type B or someone who was a mixture of Type A and B?

 

[Mia.]

Dear ESTJs,

Do you consider yourself a Type A personality?

If so, would you prefer being a relationship with someone who was Type A, Type B or someone who was a mixture of Type A and B?

My ESTJ says he is type A (as do any tests he takes). I'm cleanly in the type B camp.

 

[SD45T-2]

Dear ESTJs,

Do you consider yourself a Type A personality?

If so, would you prefer being a relationship with someone who was Type A, Type B or someone who was a mixture of Type A and B?

Type A, though not extremely. I'm a 1w2, not a 8w7.

I assume you mean a romantic relationship. I'd probably gravitate toward Type B.

 

[SilkRoad]

[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION], I love you guys (xSTJs generally ) but I do need to ask...are the vast majority of you workaholics?

This just occurred to me based on the post I made in that NTP/SJ thread. It really does seem to be a trend with at least several xSTJs I've known (more obvious with the ESTJs, but also obvious in a different way with my ISTJ brother.)

I kind of admire workaholics, because they get so much done, but they worry me too. I worry about them working themselves to death - and also, in terms of friendships or relationships, I kind of wonder if I'd always come low down the list after their work.

 

[EJCC]

Dear ESTJs,

Do you consider yourself a Type A personality?

Yes. Not Type A enough to stress out over absolutely everything, or not trust others to do things (which is my mom's problem; whereas delegating things to others isn't very stressful for me), but definitely Type A. When I'm feeling very low-stress, I can seem Type B; some people have described me as "chill" when they first met me.

If so, would you prefer being a relationship with someone who was Type A, Type B or someone who was a mixture of Type A and B?

I like a mixture of both. Being in a relationship with someone very type A would mean being in a relationship with someone who didn't trust me to do what I'm good at -- i.e. getting things and dealing with little details. Feeling like I'm not trusted to do what I'm good at not only hurts my self-esteem, but it makes me extremely resentful after a while. I'd rather be more detail-oriented than my SO, but besides that, it doesn't matter to me whether they're type A or B.

[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION], I love you guys (xSTJs generally ) but I do need to ask...are the vast majority of you workaholics?

This just occurred to me based on the post I made in that NTP/SJ thread. It really does seem to be a trend with at least several xSTJs I've known (more obvious with the ESTJs, but also obvious in a different way with my ISTJ brother.)

Yeah, I definitely am. Not as much of a workaholic as the NFJs I know (or the type 3s!), because I know where my limits are and I'm good at saying no. But most of the time, I feel like I could be doing more, or better, or both, so I become a workaholic by striving for those two things in most aspects of my life.

Some of that is due to being a 1 -- and I think type 1 STJs probably have more workaholic tendencies. But I think those tendencies are probably in every STJ. Consider how we all frown upon slacking!

I kind of admire workaholics, because they get so much done, but they worry me too. I worry about them working themselves to death - and also, in terms of friendships or relationships, I kind of wonder if I'd always come low down the list after their work.

That's interesting. I think it depends on the workaholic. When I was younger, I definitely put work higher on the priority list than I put my friends. But now that I'm more mature, and now that my friends are closer, they're higher on my list. (Also, as we know, part of why so many xxFJs are workaholics is because they can't say no to their friends -- which is a whole different type of workaholic altogether.)

So I don't know where you stand with your workaholic friends. If they're very good friends with you, then I'm sure you're pretty high on it

 

[Giggly]

I like a mixture of both. Being in a relationship with someone very type A would mean being in a relationship with someone who didn't trust me to do what I'm good at -- i.e. getting things and dealing with little details. Feeling like I'm not trusted to do what I'm good at not only hurts my self-esteem, but it makes me extremely resentful after a while. I'd rather be more detail-oriented than my SO, but besides that, it doesn't matter to me whether they're type A or B.

So why not just pick Type B?