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[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
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Hey all! I made this thread in response to a few things:

1. My experience with the rampant misconceptions about ESTJs that so many members have here (based on very limited personal experience, if any),
2. Loads of random people on TypoC asking me questions about the ESTJs in their lives, because I'm one of the only semi-actively-posting ESTJs here, and
3. All the people who want me (and the other ESTJs here) to try to make a difference on this site.

Here's the idea: if anybody has any questions that only an ESTJ can answer (and please, no spamming!), do so here. I'll do my best to help you out. Also, I reqest that other ESTJs help out on this thread here too. This doesn't have to be a one-woman battle! But you obviously shouldn't feel obligated to help out if you don't want to. I can do this on my own if necessary.

EDIT: Don't be afraid to post here! I won't bite. :)

So here I am. Questions, anyone?
 
Last edited:

professor goodstain

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Have you ever been interested in journalism?

i did notice that you wrote one-woman battle? There is absolutely no intent for connection between the first question and the second observation question:) Ne coincidence or something. Not being sarcastic. Thanks.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
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I have at times been interested in journalism. I was put off it by my high school journalism teacher, who was absolutely horrible. I decided it wasn't worth it.
However, I adore the romantic image of the investigative journalist: fighting for justice and nonpartisan truth, etc. I am a HUGE fan of Edward R. Murrow and I.F. Stone. I wish that there were more investigative journalists out there today - or at least, I wish that those that exist got more attention. (EDIT: I have trouble watching the news; it seems to me to be incredibly shallow and skewed. I prefer to listen to the radio or read the newspaper; I subscribe to the New York Times Online.)

Also, yes, I am a lady. However, on this site, I consider my type to be more important/relevant than my gender; I'm not that great with "womanly advice", which is to be expected, considering my type :)
 

Fidelia

Iron Maiden
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What a great idea to start a thread like this! Considering that you guys make up 13% of the population, there needs to be more information out there!

One of the things I've learned from two of the ESTJs I know is that initiating get togethers, assuming people would invite you, approaching new people and making things happen makes people respond warmly to you. Both are very popular people for this reason. I guess we all are a little insecure inside and the ESTJ compulsion to do this makes them feel liked and included. My ESTJ and I knew other coworkers for the same amount of time and lived in the same area as all of them, but invitations consistently were directed towards him or for him to pass them on to me. I consider myself quite warm and very friendly to those who approach me, but I tend to be more of a responder. We have a lot to learn from you in that sense.

I have had the experience in the past of working on a project with an ESTJ. I appreciated the organization, helpfulness and networking he brought to it. However, it was an area that was my domain and I found that he would take over even areas that I had more knowledge of and that it was appropriate for me to deal with. Over time, as I got more confident, I dug my heels in a little bit more and found it did not go over well. Is this typical? When working with ESTJs on a team, how do you involve them without them running the whole thing, or does that just go with the territory? Although my type seems to be attracted to extroverts who tend to take charge, we also have specific ideas of how we want something done and do not want to do a lot of the work without anyone being aware of our involvement or respecting us as leaders when it is appropriate.

What type are ESTJs often attracted to?

What aspects of NFs would an ESTJ find attractive? What aspects annoy or create friction, both personally and in a work environment?

Would you say that ESTJs prefer to work alone or enjoy the process of working on a committee?
 

Fidelia

Iron Maiden
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Do you think that ESTJs generally tend to be good with IT stuff? The ones I know tend to be good at searching out info, using help sections on programs and therefore know more than many people about computers.
 

Grungemouse

Widdles in your cream.
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Would an ESTJ mother have rose-coloured spectacles when evaluating their children, or would they be brutally honest? My mother's an ESTJ and she always insists how pretty I am, how great a figure I have, etc. Is this merely her way of trying to boost my confidence, or is she being honest? Or is she just being a proud mother who stares at a vulture and sees a swan?

She swears she's being objective, but I'm still sceptical.
 

JocktheMotie

Habitual Fi LineStepper
Joined
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Messages
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My ESTJ is extremely attached to her family. To the point where I think it will prevent me from enjoying our relationship to the fullest and she makes terrible fiscal decisions in terms of birthdays and holidays. She'd probably live right next door to her mom if she could, which of course I will not allow, I need a buffer. I don't know how to bring her over reliance on her mother up without making her extremely upset and accusatory, which has happened before.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
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Thanks for the positive feedback, everyone!

I have had the experience in the past of working on a project with an ESTJ. I appreciated the organization, helpfulness and networking he brought to it. However, it was an area that was my domain and I found that he would take over even areas that I had more knowledge of and that it was appropriate for me to deal with. Over time, as I got more confident, I dug my heels in a little bit more and found it did not go over well. Is this typical? When working with ESTJs on a team, how do you involve them without them running the whole thing, or does that just go with the territory?
I think that, sadly, that is pretty typical. What it is, is that he trusts himself more than he trusts you. I know that I, personally, would be more likely to do the work myself if I don't trust anyone else to do the work in (what I would consider to be) the CORRECT way. But if you were to prove to him, without a doubt, that you are trustworthy and competent, then he would have NO problem delegating some authority to you.

What type are ESTJs often attracted to?
It really, really depends on the ESTJ. We all have different needs. I know ESTJs who love going out with SPs, but I prefer NFs and NTs. I think ESTJs prefer certain people because of non-type-related factors, much more so than type-related ones. For instance, ESTJs would PREFER if their romantic interests agreed with them on most things (or could be easily convinced).

What aspects of NFs would an ESTJ find attractive? What aspects annoy or create friction, both personally and in a work environment?
An ESTJ would like that NFs would understand them, and listen to them, and they wouldn't feel like they would look down on them for showing emotion once and a while. I know that I trust NFs very easily (personally, I mean). NFs balance us out, which is always a good thing. However (and this might just be INFJs), but ESTJs would get pretty annoyed by NFs complaining all the time about all these different things and not doing anything about them! Their fear of conflict might get irritating, especially in a work environment (example being: ESTJ and NF agree on something, conflict begins, NF bails out and ESTJ is left completely alone, hurt and pissed off). But mostly, from my experience, since ESTJs get over conflicts way, way easier than NFs do, the NFs would be more irritated by the ESTJs than vice versa.

Would you say that ESTJs prefer to work alone or enjoy the process of working on a committee?
It depends. If the committee is easy to work with, and consenses (is that a word?) can occur quickly; if the committee is more efficient, in the ESTJ's mind, than working alone; THEN an ESTJ would prefer a committee.

Do you think that ESTJs generally tend to be good with IT stuff? The ones I know tend to be good at searching out info, using help sections on programs and therefore know more than many people about computers.
Yeah, sure. Well, the nerdier ones would be, anyway. That's probably another thing that would vary depending on the ESTJ. We're good at working on things that others might consider to be monotonous, for long periods of time, without much of a break. So that might make them innately good at IT work (or, rather, certain types of IT work). But the question would be, would they WANT to do that? I know that I'd rather leave it to the NTs :)

Would an ESTJ mother have rose-coloured spectacles when evaluating their children, or would they be brutally honest? My mother's an ESTJ and she always insists how pretty I am, how great a figure I have, etc. Is this merely her way of trying to boost my confidence, or is she being honest? Or is she just being a proud mother who stares at a vulture and sees a swan?

She swears she's being objective, but I'm still sceptical.
Well, every mother has rose-colored glasses. However, I doubt that she would lie to you to boost your confidence. So, I think she's telling (what she wholeheartedly considers to be) the truth (even if it may only be true in her eyes). I'm not sure, though, because I don't have children.

My ESTJ is extremely attached to her family. To the point where I think it will prevent me from enjoying our relationship to the fullest and she makes terrible fiscal decisions in terms of birthdays and holidays. She'd probably live right next door to her mom if she could, which of course I will not allow, I need a buffer. I don't know how to bring her over reliance on her mother up without making her extremely upset and accusatory, which has happened before.
Okay, in all honesty, there is NO WAY in HELL that you can "bring her over her reliance on her mother". You can't get between an ESTJ and her family. I'd recommend that you reason with her logically, e.g. "I know this is important to you, but could we do this in a way that's fiscally responsible? I have these ideas X and Y, and I think they'd work better..." The choice really shouldn't be between your relationship and her family. Both should be in there somewhere.
 

JocktheMotie

Habitual Fi LineStepper
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Okay, in all honesty, there is NO WAY in HELL that you can "bring her over her reliance on her mother". You can't get between an ESTJ and her family. I'd recommend that you reason with her logically, e.g. "I know this is important to you, but could we do this in a way that's fiscally responsible? I have these ideas X and Y, and I think they'd work better..." The choice really shouldn't be between your relationship and her family. Both should be in there somewhere.

Haha, I was afraid of that. She flat out refuses to live more than 10 minutes away and her inclusion of her mother in everything makes me feel like she's intruding on something that is mine. I keep getting these flashes of Everybody Loves Raymond.

Also, I hate having to make decisions that are tied to so many people. I just want to be happy with her, it's all I really need. I don't like how my family decisions have to include everybody in hers too. I hate being tethered and tied down.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
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Haha, I was afraid of that. She flat out refuses to live more than 10 minutes away and her inclusion of her mother in everything makes me feel like she's intruding on something that is mine. I keep getting these flashes of Everybody Loves Raymond.
Jeez! I didn't realize just HOW connected to her family she was. I misread it, I guess - I looked at that and thought "I rely on my mother...", but I certainly don't rely THAT much on my mother. :doh: That changes the whole thing! Forget what I said before.

Also, I hate having to make decisions that are tied to so many people. I just want to be happy with her, it's all I really need. I don't like how my family decisions have to include everybody in hers too. I hate being tethered and tied down.
This might sound weird, but have you tried telling her how you feel about it? ESTJs really value honesty, and, after all, love is all about compromise. She should know that. She's probably just oblivious to how you're feeling, and if you call her attention to it (tactfully), she'll (hopefully) react constructively and positively.
 

Fidelia

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Thanks so much for your speedy reply. I nearly burst out laughing when I read what you wrote about working on projects together. I kind of thought that would be the answer. In my case I run a music program, and he is an English teacher who started fiddling because of me. He offered to help chaperone on the trips and also to run a yearly event with about 600 people staying at our school and having a music workshop. He not only would be doling out detailed advice about fiddling to kids that I teach with a whole two months' personal experience on the fiddle (me, 20 years!), but also started delegating jobs to me for the workshop even though I had been to one before and he had not. I think it just goes with the territory. He felt I wasn't as concerned with organization, but what he didn't realize is that I was very concerned with it. It was just that my list of what should take priority first was different. He was more concerned with the smaller details, while I wanted to look after the big picture first and then zero in on the little things. On the other hand, he was the most likely to think of things like getting keys from the right people or figuring out how many extension cords would be needed etc. He also drove the people in adult fiddling class nuts by offering advice to those who had been fiddling the same amount of time as him and by cutting me off while I was teaching with his observations and tips etc. I don't know if that is typical or not, but I suspect it is just really difficult not to lead.

Some more questions:

What's the best way to make an ESTJ feel appreciated and valued?

Do ESTJs prefer to learn independently or will they take help if they feel the offerer is competent enough?

Would you say that generally ESTJs prefer practical presents?

If an ESTJ's employee disagrees with him/her, what is the best way (obviously privately) to offer another perspective without making them feel that a subordinate is trying to usurp authority or is a troublemaker?
 

Jeffster

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I've read some stuff that says ESTJ is my ideal mate. But my impression of the ESTJ women that I have known is, they have their lives so in control, and are talented in so many areas, what do they need me for? :blush:
 

Fidelia

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Do you think ESTJs are especially spatially aware? I have noticed that many ESTJs become phyed teachers or coaches and the ESTJs I know seem to also be very tuned into their surroundings. The ones I know see details that I would never notice unless they were pointed out to me and they also seem to be very good drivers. I was wondering if it is the leadership aspect or the awareness of space around them that might push them towards sports.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
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What's the best way to make an ESTJ feel appreciated and valued?
All you really have to do is recognize how hard we work. We really do care, and often we work really hard for the greater good and for the ones we love, but it can feel like no one understands how much we care, or how hard we work. Simply stating that you notice, and that you care, is good. Some ideas for supplements to that: a night out to relax, a small gift, and/or perhaps a hug :hug: :D

Do ESTJs prefer to learn independently or will they take help if they feel the offerer is competent enough?
They will ABSOLUTELY take help if they see the offerer as better than them. That's why they're always classified as "middle managers" - they can switch between boss-er and boss-ee with absolutely no problem. (In a sense, there's always a hierarchy with them.) They're pretty versatile that way.

Would you say that generally ESTJs prefer practical presents?
Heck yes. The best gift for an ESTJ is something that they can USE. (My favorite graduation gift was... a hot pot. lol!)

If an ESTJ's employee disagrees with him/her, what is the best way (obviously privately) to offer another perspective without making them feel that a subordinate is trying to usurp authority or is a troublemaker?
Use logic. Be respectful. If your language is deemed appropriate, and if you don't seem like you're bossing the ESTJ around, the ESTJ should be completely fine with it. Unless they have some sort of emotional connection to their belief, it won't matter to them whose idea is put into effect, as long as it ends up working.

I've read some stuff that says ESTJ is my ideal mate. But my impression of the ESTJ women that I have known is, they have their lives so in control, and are talented in so many areas, what do they need me for? :blush:
Aw. Gawrsh. :blush:

Do you think ESTJs are especially spatially aware? I have noticed that many ESTJs become phyed teachers or coaches and the ESTJs I know seem to also be very tuned into their surroundings. The ones I know see details that I would never notice unless they were pointed out to me and they also seem to be very good drivers. I was wondering if it is the leadership aspect or the awareness of space around them that might push them towards sports.
ESTJs are very aware of their surroundings. They don't live inside of their own heads (like many INxx people I know) as much as they live in the outside world. It's very relaxing, for us, to do things like exercising, or working outside, or repairing things, or doing other sensory things, because it's like meditation - we immerse ourselves in the project, and our minds don't wander, so we don't worry about things. Ah... :D Just thinking about it makes me feel good. Makes me want to get outside! :run:
I personally never enjoyed sports - I don't know why. But I like to exercise. Most ESTJs probably do, for the reasons I mentioned.
 

entropie

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Whats the main thermodynamical difference between a diezel engine and a gasoline engine ? (hint: what keeps the combustion going)
 

A Schnitzel

WTF is this dude saying?
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Whats the main thermodynamical difference between a diezel engine and a gasoline engine ? (hint: what keeps the combustion going)

What if you only drive carnot engines with adiabatic walls?
 

EJCC

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^
Brain... hurts... *head explodes*
 

entropie

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What if you only drive carnot engines with adiabatic walls?

I dont know what adiabatic wall means, but Carnot engines dont produce enough power to move shit :).

The answer is: a diesel engine has no spark plug, cause the gasoline heats itself enough to spark by the pressure of the combustion

P.S.: I just figured you meant adiabatic limit, didnt you ? Man your english is even worser than mine :D
 

Frank

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What is your mind set like in work/business situations? Goals for yourself within that organization, the role that organization plays in your life etc... Do you immediately adopt the culture because it is there? Basically whatever random shit you can think of along those lines. It would be interesting to see what our differences are and test the theory a little.
 

EJCC

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What our differences are? Hm... Generally, I'm very focused in a work environment. I ask a lot of questions, to ensure that I get the job done correctly. My goal is always to complete my tasks, and to make sure they're done RIGHT. And what do you mean by "culture", exactly?

Besides that, I don't know how much I can talk about right now. 3 reasons why:
1. I'm a student, and beyond that, I don't really want to give anything away about my work,
2. I might need a bit more direction to answer (e.g. What category of differences are you thinking of, and what theory? Is it that people are always comparing ESTJs to ENTJs? 'Cause I can tell you right now one difference: ESTJs are way more into hierarchy than you guys are), and
3. I'm frickin' tired, and need to go to bed. This is what happens when you have days off... grr! Goodstain was right when he voted me "most likely to stay up late on weekends"!
 
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