[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

[Red Herring]

Big fat LOL at the essay!

 

[EJCC]

So why not just pick Type B?

Because some type A people are on the chiller side. I'm not so chill that there couldn't possibly be Type A people chiller than me.

Big fat LOL at the essay!

 

[azulatheavatar]

do estj tend to not want to talk with you if they are under a lot of stress?

 

[EJCC]

do estj tend to not want to talk with you if they are under a lot of stress?

ESTJs withdraw from people when they're very stressed out. You can tell an ESTJ is going through something intense when they're suddenly quiet and distant from the outside world. It isn't that they don't want to talk to you (although if they're in super-Te-deadline-mode, they might be avoiding you for the sake of getting the job done without distraction), but when under stress they're too focused on themselves and their own stress, for regular communication to even cross their minds.

 

[azulatheavatar]

ESTJs withdraw from people when they're very stressed out. You can tell an ESTJ is going through something intense when they're suddenly quiet and distant from the outside world. It isn't that they don't want to talk to you (although if they're in super-Te-deadline-mode, they might be avoiding you for the sake of getting the job done without distraction), but they're too distracted by themselves and their own stress, for regular communication to come naturally to them anymore.

just to clarify you say "suddenly distant" as in one day they are talking to one the phone with me and asking me to hang out and then the next day or so they don't call when they usually always make an effort to do so?

 

[EJCC]

just to clarify you say "suddenly distant" as in one day they are talking to one the phone with me and asking me to hang out and then the next day or so they don't call when they usually always make an effort to do so?

Yep, that's exactly it! If other ESTJs are like me, then they're good at remaining "normal" under mild to medium (or even pretty intense) levels of stress -- but there's always a breaking point, and it's only at that point that the accidentally self-imposed isolation mode turns on.

 

[SD45T-2]

[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION], I love you guys (xSTJs generally ) but I do need to ask...are the vast majority of you workaholics?

I wouldn't say the vast majority of STJs are workaholics, but it's plausible that the vast majority of workaholics are STJs.

I wrestled during junior high and some of high school. After the first few years I got serious about it. I lost about 25lbs and spent most of my free time jogging, lifting weights, doing pushups, etc. I had the best attendance for wrestling practice and I think it's safe to say I was one of the most dedicated guys on the team. I was practically like Matthew Modine in Vision Quest. Eventually I managed to become a thoroughly mediocre wrestler. Then my right elbow went kaput. So much for that.

I kind of admire workaholics, because they get so much done, but they worry me too. I worry about them working themselves to death - and also, in terms of friendships or relationships, I kind of wonder if I'd always come low down the list after their work.

That can happen. It's one of the themes of Heat, which I mentioned to you awhile back.

 

[skylights]

What are the best ways of demonstrating love to and sharing intimacy with an ESTJ? Of course that will vary a bit from individual to individual, but maybe there are some shared tendencies...? As an NF obviously I go to fuzzy-conceptual methods, like the ideas represented in certain songs or poems or expressed in artwork, but I'm trying to figure out how best to "translate" that without losing authenticity...

 

[Mia.]

What are the best ways of demonstrating love to and sharing intimacy with an ESTJ? Of course that will vary a bit from individual to individual, but maybe there are some shared tendencies...? As an NF obviously I go to fuzzy-conceptual methods, like the ideas represented in certain songs or poems or expressed in artwork, but I'm trying to figure out how best to "translate" that without losing authenticity...

Demonstrating love: Do the dishes. Seriously. It's that simple.

Sharing intimacy: Watch his choice of T.V. together. Seriously. It's that simple.

 

[EJCC]

What are the best ways of demonstrating love to and sharing intimacy with an ESTJ? Of course that will vary a bit from individual to individual, but maybe there are some shared tendencies...? As an NF obviously I go to fuzzy-conceptual methods, like the ideas represented in certain songs or poems or expressed in artwork, but I'm trying to figure out how best to "translate" that without losing authenticity...

Demonstrating love: Do the dishes. Seriously. It's that simple.

Sharing intimacy: Watch his choice of T.V. together. Seriously. It's that simple.

I pretty much agree, about demonstrating love. Just doing something for the ESTJ that shows that you're thinking of them, and that you've been paying attention to what's been going on in their life. Maybe surprising them with an unexpected gift (e.g. making them or buying them a favorite food?), or, I guess, doing the dishes? With the explanation of "I know you've had a lot on your plate lately..." (Pun unintended )

Regarding intimacy, watching a movie etc is a great way to share wordless intimacy -- I agree. And that would be the best way to have a longer-lasting intimate experience with them. (Not the best word choice, but you know what I mean.) If you wanted to share intimacy with them verbally, I wouldn't expect that moment to last long! Or at least, I'd expect a longer period of silent intimacy to follow the short period of spoken intimacy. Example: if you ask the ESTJ what's been going on in their lives, and the ESTJ opens up quietly, briefly, and minimally, showing their Fi as much as they're comfortable with, and then you respond with equivalent opening up, and the two of you respond to one another -- the ESTJ is going to feel a lasting moment with you as a result of that, a moment of mental unity, I guess. And maybe it's because I've ended up slightly more introspective than the average ESTJ, because of how interested I am in personality psychology, that my preferred moments of silent intimacy are the ones preceded by verbally opening up. Or it could be because I'm generally resistant towards feeling mentally united with someone until they've told me explicitly how they feel... which could mean either a lack of trust in other people, or a lack of trust in my own ability to read people.

I dunno! I'm thinking out loud. I hope some of that helped.

 

[EJCC]

I have a question for The Usual Suspects of this thread -- and I am tempted to put this question up in the Relationships subforum, but I'm more comfortable asking it here (where it will probably be read by fewer people ), and it also might be type-related.

People haven't really told me, in the past couple of years, how I come across to them -- and I've changed a lot in the past few years, so I really only trust the recent feedback to still be true of me. But the one comment that's been consistent over the past year or two has been this:

"Everything you say is intense."

I've asked people what they mean by that, and what they seem to mean is that I never say anything lightly? I mean, obviously I have a sense of humor, and I can have a silly streak. But apparently, so I've heard, everything I say is weighty, and infused with an intense amount of personal meaning.

I've heard, vaguely, that I come across as "intense", or even "intimidating", and this must be the more specific reason why. But I don't know if it's type-related, or just me. Is it something you guys see in yourselves, or ESTJs you know?

Related question: I also get the feeling that intensity is a turn-off for some people. I can't relate to that. I may even be drawn to intense people, if only because they seem substantial, for lack of a better word, and people who put on a facade of being less substantial than they really are can irritate me. Why would it be a turn-off? I ask this because even though I like that aspect of myself, it obviously is also something that sets me apart from the majority of people -- and is therefore the main factor that makes me "not normal", and the main thing that keeps people from befriending me. And I want to know whether people are justified in being turned off by that.

 

[Red Herring]

Wut?

Honey, you are soooo getting a long PM!

 

[SilkRoad]

I have a question for The Usual Suspects of this thread -- and I am tempted to put this question up in the Relationships subforum, but I'm more comfortable asking it here (where it will probably be read by fewer people ), and it also might be type-related.

People haven't really told me, in the past couple of years, how I come across to them -- and I've changed a lot in the past few years, so I really only trust the recent feedback to still be true of me. But the one comment that's been consistent over the past year or two has been this:

"Everything you say is intense."

I've asked people what they mean by that, and what they seem to mean is that I never say anything lightly? I mean, obviously I have a sense of humor, and I can have a silly streak. But apparently, so I've heard, everything I say is weighty, and infused with an intense amount of personal meaning.

I've heard, vaguely, that I come across as "intense", or even "intimidating", and this must be the more specific reason why. But I don't know if it's type-related, or just me. Is it something you guys see in yourselves, or ESTJs you know?

Related question: I also get the feeling that intensity is a turn-off for some people. I can't relate to that. I may even be drawn to intense people, if only because they seem substantial, for lack of a better word, and people who put on a facade of being less substantial than they really are can irritate me. Why would it be a turn-off? I ask this because even though I like that aspect of myself, it obviously is also something that sets me apart from the majority of people -- and is therefore the main factor that makes me "not normal", and the main thing that keeps people from befriending me. And I want to know whether people are justified in being turned off by that.

Re: your intensity, intensity in general, and what you've written here generally...

Obviously I don't know you IRL and I think online interaction is very partial at best, even if you think someone is really cool. I'd say though that you come across as forceful/perhaps somewhat intense, but in a pleasant and balanced way. You pretty much always seem to measure your words and say things which are meaningful and which you've put thought into, and you're also quite tactful and you show appreciation to others. Personally, I like that a lot.

I can think of a couple of (almost certainly) ESTJs I've known in recent years and I'm pretty sure I've known more. I think you guys do tend to come across as forceful. I've discussed with you about people who say things they don't mean or seem to change their mind a lot and how that really gets to me (although I'm aware it can be miscommunication, not just flakiness). I do have a better understanding now of how extroverts generally (and perhaps certain extrovert types especially) tend to verbalize things when they're thinking them over, because sometimes I put too much weight on words and can get a bit pissy when people then decide to do something different. But I don't think a healthy ESTJ is too flighty in either words or actions and I also like that.

But you definitely seem concerned that you're turning people off (you didn't specify, but I suppose that's either friendship-wise, or relationship-wise) by intensity and forcefulness, and that it even makes you "not normal". You're fairly young and I would suggest that especially at your age, this is going to be a turn-off for some people - but that those people aren't a great loss. People in their early twenties who are more on the serious side, get things done, sound forceful and determined, perhaps aren't the norm. I would actually think that you're just thinning out some potentially annoying people that way. As long as you're not being mean or bossy and I am 99.9% sure that's not the case.

I totally hear you about being drawn to intense people and not understanding why others would be turned off by that. Honestly, those people strike me as superficial. As long as people are not mean, manipulative, or complete self-absorbed bores, I LOVE intensity. (And I also get told I'm intense, and sometimes it's a compliment, and sometimes...hm). Perhaps you get along well with INFJs because you have some things in common there. Another forum member commented elsewhere about how some people find her too serious and others find her not serious enough, and I related to that big-time. I know for a fact that I've turned some people off by being too serious and intense - and I don't think they're a great loss. I'm also pretty sure that some others have perceived me as too fun-loving and a bit frivolous. To which I reply that I like to enjoy life and I think enjoyment of life is one of the gifts we've been given, and I really can't be serious ALL the time. (I'm serious inside my head almost all the time and sometimes it makes me so tired!)

I've been quite fortunate to find some people who are similar to me with the balance of intensity/seriousness/fun-loving silliness, and even if you haven't found many of them yet you will probably find a few more as you get a bit older. Otherwise I wouldn't worry. Just be yourself, and try to tweak the personality aspects that don't work so well - that's one of the things that can make typology so useful.

 

[figsfiggyfigs]

I have a question for The Usual Suspects of this thread -- and I am tempted to put this question up in the Relationships subforum, but I'm more comfortable asking it here (where it will probably be read by fewer people ), and it also might be type-related.

People haven't really told me, in the past couple of years, how I come across to them -- and I've changed a lot in the past few years, so I really only trust the recent feedback to still be true of me. But the one comment that's been consistent over the past year or two has been this:

"Everything you say is intense."

I've asked people what they mean by that, and what they seem to mean is that I never say anything lightly? I mean, obviously I have a sense of humor, and I can have a silly streak. But apparently, so I've heard, everything I say is weighty, and infused with an intense amount of personal meaning.

I've heard, vaguely, that I come across as "intense", or even "intimidating", and this must be the more specific reason why. But I don't know if it's type-related, or just me. Is it something you guys see in yourselves, or ESTJs you know?

Related question: I also get the feeling that intensity is a turn-off for some people. I can't relate to that. I may even be drawn to intense people, if only because they seem substantial, for lack of a better word, and people who put on a facade of being less substantial than they really are can irritate me. Why would it be a turn-off? I ask this because even though I like that aspect of myself, it obviously is also something that sets me apart from the majority of people -- and is therefore the main factor that makes me "not normal", and the main thing that keeps people from befriending me. And I want to know whether people are justified in being turned off by that.

Assuming you are the same irl as you are online, I'd have to say that your intensity is more to do with your physical tone and expression rather than what you actually say. I have noticed that you do have a "serious" quality to you, however, you never come off as intense or intimidating in your posts. So, I do definitely think it has more to do with HOW you express what you say. Ie; straight facial expression, dominating tone, etc.

 

[Mia.]

My ESTJ is intense, and I find it a good thing. I am drawn to intense people, because to me it indicates they are actually engaging with reality/the world/life, etc. I'm intense as well, but it is a different energy to the intensity - very laid back externally, with the lots-under-the-surface and laden-with-meaning vibe. Whereas my ESTJ is intense on the outside.

I can think of a couple of (almost certainly) ESTJs I've known in recent years and I'm pretty sure I've known more. I think you guys do tend to come across as forceful.

This would capture it well. Everything he says seems definitive, even if it isn’t. Pointed. He also tends to say whatever he’s thinking in a direct and raw manner no matter how controversial or sensitive in nature – which I LOVE and find comforting in its authenticity and lack of pretense (it’s actually the thing I love the most about him) – but others don’t often take it the right way.

 

[SD45T-2]

What are the best ways of demonstrating love to and sharing intimacy with an ESTJ? Of course that will vary a bit from individual to individual, but maybe there are some shared tendencies...? As an NF obviously I go to fuzzy-conceptual methods, like the ideas represented in certain songs or poems or expressed in artwork, but I'm trying to figure out how best to "translate" that without losing authenticity...

I think it would depend on love languages. Mine are physical touch and quality time. I'd feel weird about someone doing acts of service for me because I'm used to being the one performing acts of service for other people.

I have a question for The Usual Suspects of this thread -- and I am tempted to put this question up in the Relationships subforum, but I'm more comfortable asking it here (where it will probably be read by fewer people ), and it also might be type-related.

People haven't really told me, in the past couple of years, how I come across to them -- and I've changed a lot in the past few years, so I really only trust the recent feedback to still be true of me. But the one comment that's been consistent over the past year or two has been this:

"Everything you say is intense."

I've asked people what they mean by that, and what they seem to mean is that I never say anything lightly? I mean, obviously I have a sense of humor, and I can have a silly streak. But apparently, so I've heard, everything I say is weighty, and infused with an intense amount of personal meaning.

I've heard, vaguely, that I come across as "intense", or even "intimidating", and this must be the more specific reason why. But I don't know if it's type-related, or just me. Is it something you guys see in yourselves, or ESTJs you know?

I generally don't get comments like that. I think I can come across as bland at times.

Related question: I also get the feeling that intensity is a turn-off for some people. I can't relate to that. I may even be drawn to intense people, if only because they seem substantial, for lack of a better word, and people who put on a facade of being less substantial than they really are can irritate me. Why would it be a turn-off? I ask this because even though I like that aspect of myself, it obviously is also something that sets me apart from the majority of people -- and is therefore the main factor that makes me "not normal", and the main thing that keeps people from befriending me. And I want to know whether people are justified in being turned off by that.

Is this primarily with your peers?

IMHO a majority of people of our generation are shallow, self-centered, and generally lacking substance and integrity. I would make sense to me that many of your peers would find you abnormal. As you can see, I'm a bit cynical.

 

[SilkRoad]

I think it would depend on love languages. Mine are physical touch and quality time. I'd feel weird about someone doing acts of service for me because I'm used to being the one performing acts of service for other people.

I thought this comment was really interesting. Does it actually make you feel uncomfortable if people want to do things for you? I totally understand the ESTJ about wanting to be helpful (or even kind of directive, ha) but if someone cares about you the chances are good that they want to do helpful things for you too, at least sometimes

I have had this sort of impression in ESTJ interactions. That they're a lot happier doing things for you than letting you do things for them. But I have to admit I have also wondered if it's a bit of a power/control thing. Like you might be giving away some of your control if you allowed others to do things for you. I don't know...what would you say?

 

[SD45T-2]

I thought this comment was really interesting. Does it actually make you feel uncomfortable if people want to do things for you? I totally understand the ESTJ about wanting to be helpful (or even kind of directive, ha) but if someone cares about you the chances are good that they want to do helpful things for you too, at least sometimes

It doesn't necessarily make me uncomfortable, just that it can feel odd.

I have had this sort of impression in ESTJ interactions. That they're a lot happier doing things for you than letting you do things for them. But I have to admit I have also wondered if it's a bit of a power/control thing. Like you might be giving away some of your control if you allowed others to do things for you. I don't know...what would you say?

That's possible. My guess is that it's more relevant for ESTJs who are type 8. I think it's more of a w2 thing for me.

 

[EJCC]

Wut?

Honey, you are soooo getting a long PM!

Thanks, Red Herring. I will respond to your long PM -- and to everyone's replies on the thread -- soon. They've given me a lot of food for thought, so I may need to mull it over first.

 

[Cimarron]

"Everything you say is intense."

I think, just from what you post here, you seem very energetic and "forceful," though that word's a little loaded. Your posts always seem to have a lot of energy and activity in them. Which leads to the next question...

Related question: I also get the feeling that intensity is a turn-off for some people. I can't relate to that. I may even be drawn to intense people, if only because they seem substantial, for lack of a better word, and people who put on a facade of being less substantial than they really are can irritate me. Why would it be a turn-off? I ask this because even though I like that aspect of myself, it obviously is also something that sets me apart from the majority of people -- and is therefore the main factor that makes me "not normal", and the main thing that keeps people from befriending me. And I want to know whether people are justified in being turned off by that.

Why does this turn some people off? Often, when faced with too much energy thrown my way, or too much activity all at once, I back away to prevent overload. As in, I'd rather process it bit by bit. I think But this in itself is a good thread-starter question.