Finally replying to everything...
I thought this comment was really interesting. Does it actually make you feel uncomfortable if people want to do things for you? I totally understand the ESTJ about wanting to be helpful (or even kind of directive, ha) but if someone cares about you the chances are good that they want to do helpful things for you too, at least sometimes
I have had this sort of impression in ESTJ interactions. That they're a lot happier doing things for you than letting you do things for them. But I have to admit I have also wondered if it's a bit of a power/control thing. Like you might be giving away some of your control if you allowed others to do things for you. I don't know...what would you say?
I think SD45T-2 must be right about the love languages thing. Because when people do nice things for me, I don't question it, and it doesn't make me uncomfortable -- unless I feel on the spot, or I feel like I'm being undeservedly rewarded for something, or if I feel like "they shouldn't have gone to all that trouble", etc etc.
It doesn't necessarily make me uncomfortable, just that it can feel odd.
Odd, as in, unusual?
That's possible. My guess is that it's more relevant for ESTJs who are type 8. I think it's more of a w2 thing for me.
I have a question regarding this. Your 2 wing would mean that you're all about being helpful, right? So if/when you desire appreciation, or a show of love, what would you end up expecting out of people, if not something in the same style of providing that you show to them? If that makes sense.
Re: your intensity, intensity in general, and what you've written here generally...
Obviously I don't know you IRL and I think online interaction is very partial at best, even if you think someone is really cool.
I'd say though that you come across as forceful/perhaps somewhat intense, but in a pleasant and balanced way. You pretty much always seem to measure your words and say things which are meaningful and which you've put thought into, and you're also quite tactful and you show appreciation to others. Personally, I like that a lot.
Thanks.
Each thing you've described, is something I aim for, on this forum, and that I care a lot about projecting and embodying. It's good to know I'm succeeding in that.
I can think of a couple of (almost certainly) ESTJs I've known in recent years and I'm pretty sure I've known more. I think you guys do tend to come across as forceful. I've discussed with you about people who say things they don't mean or seem to change their mind a lot and how that really gets to me (although I'm aware it can be miscommunication, not just flakiness). I do have a better understanding now of how extroverts generally (and perhaps certain extrovert types especially) tend to verbalize things when they're thinking them over, because sometimes I put too much weight on words and can get a bit pissy when people then decide to do something different.
But I don't think a healthy ESTJ is too flighty in either words or actions and I also like that.
But you definitely seem concerned that you're turning people off (you didn't specify, but I suppose that's either friendship-wise, or relationship-wise) by intensity and forcefulness, and that it even makes you "not normal". You're fairly young and I would suggest that especially at your age, this is going to be a turn-off for some people - but that those people aren't a great loss. People in their early twenties who are more on the serious side, get things done, sound forceful and determined, perhaps aren't the norm. I would actually think that you're just thinning out some potentially annoying people that way.
As long as you're not being mean or bossy and I am 99.9% sure that's not the case.
This is true. Strangely, I'm only bossy with my friends (i.e. when I'm giving them a talking-to, Because I Care), or with people who have made me angry and shut off my imitation Fe.
I think you're right about thinning out annoying people. I still don't necessarily understand why people in their late teens and early twenties would be annoyed by it, unless it's due to being insecure -- but even then, aren't insecure people drawn to secure ones, and don't intense/confident people come across as the most secure?
For the sake of full disclosure, I'm just curious at this point, and I'm not going to actively seek out the people who are annoyed by intensity; I deserve better than to have to mask one of my favorite aspects of myself, in order to make friends that I never really wanted in the first place.
I totally hear you about being drawn to intense people and not understanding why others would be turned off by that. Honestly, those people strike me as superficial. As long as people are not mean, manipulative, or complete self-absorbed bores, I LOVE intensity. (And I also get told I'm intense, and sometimes it's a compliment, and sometimes...hm). Perhaps you get along well with INFJs because you have some things in common there. Another forum member commented elsewhere about how some people find her too serious and others find her not serious enough, and I related to that big-time. I know for a fact that I've turned some people off by being too serious and intense - and I don't think they're a great loss. I'm also pretty sure that some others have perceived me as too fun-loving and a bit frivolous.
To which I reply that I like to enjoy life and I think enjoyment of life is one of the gifts we've been given, and I really can't be serious ALL the time. (I'm serious inside my head almost all the time and sometimes it makes me so tired!)
Lol at the last part!
I get the impression that Fe and Ni are really exhausting functions to use in tandem -- especially when Fe is first.
You don't come across to me as frivolous at all.
Frankly, if you did come across that way, I wouldn't want to be your friend, in all likelihood. Maybe you're right, that that's why I'm drawn to NFJs. If/when you guys are silly, I know it's just your sense of humor, and that you're actually very deep; I have a non-superficial silly streak too (obviously!), so I completely relate.
I've been quite fortunate to find some people who are similar to me with the balance of intensity/seriousness/fun-loving silliness, and even if you haven't found many of them yet you will probably find a few more as you get a bit older. Otherwise I wouldn't worry. Just be yourself, and try to tweak the personality aspects that don't work so well - that's one of the things that can make typology so useful.
Thanks for your post.
I'll bet you're 100% correct.
Assuming you are the same irl as you are online, I'd have to say that your intensity is more to do with your physical tone and expression rather than what you actually say. I have noticed that you do have a "serious" quality to you, however, you never come off as intense or intimidating in your posts. So, I do definitely think it has more to do with HOW you express what you say. Ie; straight facial expression, dominating tone, etc.
I generally come across as pretty straightforward irl; my videos are a good indicator. I don't think I come across as dominating?
At my most aggressive/bossy, I probably come across more like Hermione Granger than anyone else.
My ESTJ is intense, and I find it a good thing. I am drawn to intense people, because to me it indicates they are actually engaging with reality/the world/life, etc. I'm intense as well, but it is a different energy to the intensity - very laid back externally, with the lots-under-the-surface and laden-with-meaning vibe. Whereas my ESTJ is intense on the outside.
This would capture it well. Everything he says seems definitive, even if it isn’t. Pointed. He also tends to say whatever he’s thinking in a direct and raw manner no matter how controversial or sensitive in nature – which I LOVE and find comforting in its authenticity and lack of pretense (it’s actually the thing I love the most about him) – but others don’t often take it the right way.
This makes a lot of sense, and it describes me very well too. If others don't take it very well from your husband, then they probably don't take it well from me either. But you know what? Too bad for them! They're missing out.
<-- "winning" and "charismatic" Te grin
Regarding your comment about ESTJ intensity being on the outside: I'm not sure what your husband's Enneagram type is, but another factor of my intensity (besides the obvious Te factor) may be the type 1 constant slow boil, that can overflow out of nowhere. I also credit my Enneagram for the fact that irl, I think, my energy is generally pretty contained and subdued, relatively speaking, compared to other extroverts. But that containment could make me seem even more intense, in theory? Like a pressure cooker.
I dunno. I'm just thinking out loud!
I generally don't get comments like that. I think I can come across as bland at times.
Really? How so? You don't really come across that way to me. Of course, I don't really think of anyone as being "bland".
Is this primarily with your peers?
Yes. In fact, only with my peers. Adults over 25 have no problem with my intensity, generally.
IMHO a majority of people of our generation are shallow, self-centered, and generally lacking substance and integrity. I would make sense to me that many of your peers would find you abnormal. As you can see, I'm a bit cynical.
Yeah! But then again, all your friends are older, right?
Do you think that's part of why you befriend mostly older people? i.e. the same issue SilkRoad and I talked about?
Okay, gotta stop! TypeC's about to shut off.
Will reply to your PM soon, [MENTION=10251]Red Herring[/MENTION]! I swear!
But this in itself is a good thread-starter question.
Hey that's pretty cool!
