[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

[Ghost of the dead horse]

What kind of kinship, similarity or companionship do you feel with the ENTJ?

 

[Ontop]

I dunno if she's an ESTJ. She's ExTx, without a doubt, but besides that... she could be an ENTx, still, possibly (some of that sounded ENTJ). But yeah, I'd say I'm 75% sure she's ESTJ.

Do you have any other helpful details? e.g. is she an inside-the-box thinker? Does she tend to take things literally?

Thoughts, anybody?

Thanks for the answer!

I forgot to add that additional information. I didn't think she was an N, she bases her entire decisions on experiences, and she speaks from experience, all the time! Sometimes, I think she's way too practical. I love playing video games and she knows that, and when I told her to play some games with me, she said

"well, I don't think video games are at all, realistic, I don't see the point of playing it."

But she will play because of me, she's my close friend.

But whenever we'd get into an argument, she'd have a hard time admitting to what wrong she's done and definitely has a hard time saying "I'm sorry". Whenever I try to tell her something or something that shes wrong in, or she hurt my feelings, I always have to prove it.

When we'd debate, as always, she always goes for the facts. I asked her if she preferred to go by the system, she thinks that the system sometimes could be illogical.

When I ask her "what do you mean", she leaves me with an answer that "what do you think"?

or if I wanted her to explain something to me clearly, she'd always say that it didnt matter!

She also prefers someone who has compassion and at the same time, efficient. Without efficiency, you shouldn't belong to a job. She's not very creative, or thinks "outside the box". She lacks of appreciation for art. She won't say a compliment, at all, not unless she truly means it. She's easily irritated by the people who keeps bombing her with compliments, she's being skeptic about them, thats why.

shes also so straightforward!

She told one of the people who hanged with us in a group when he couldn't afford anything while we were standing in a line to get food and he wanted a pizza that costed $3 but he didnt have enough money and he asked her for money, she said,

"well that's too bad, I can pay for you but pick something that's not too expensive."

wanting him to pick a food that's of a reasonable price or she'd expect him to pay her back in return, if he were to get something expensive. She won't give anyone money at all if a person's a "nobody"

I think she's just so insensitive sometimes that I have to remind her of it. But at the same time, she's a really nice and friendly girl, just when she's told something like an emotional problem, she responds really slow or doesn't know what to say for the most part to make that person feel happier.

She didn't think either that the idea of bringing peace to the world is practical, and harmony itself. But she would always in return be compassionate to someone if someone was really nice to her. Overall, she's silly and can be playful but for the most part, she's always so serious and when she is, no one should joke around or she'd confront you with this.

does any of that help?

 

[EJCC]

^ That helps a lot, thanks! Now I'm 95% sure she's ESTJ. I relate a lot to that. It's not that we mean to be cold or insensitive. In my case, anyway, if someone tells me that I was insensitive, I'll be unpleasantly surprised, and will apologize right away. "I didn't mean to sound like that..." I also relate to the thing about world peace, and how the idea isn't realistic.

I also relate to what she said about the system sometimes being illogical. That's one stereotype about ESTJs - that we always side with "the man". I'm friends with an ENTP (who I can always trust to be straightforward and tell me the truth when I need to hear it ), and we were chatting once about alignment - you know, like in Dungeons and Dragons - and this subject came up. She said that her boyfriend, who is an INFJ, is much more status quo than I am! So there you go.

^^ I like ENTJs. I feel like we think along the same lines, kind of. Like we want the same things, in the end, but the way they approach it is less, for lack of a better term, boxed in. For example, both types are "natural leaders", but their type of leadership is the type that would involve, e.g, starting a club, whereas ESTJ leadership would involve becoming president of a pre-established club.

I also think we make good partners in crime

 

[Tamske]

Dear Consistent One,

how do you cope when NPs around you jump from one peak interest to another and expect you to follow?

I am so guilty of that one.

 

[EJCC]

^ Simple - I ask for clarification (e.g. "I'm confused... what do you mean??"), and then giggle at their stream of consciousness rambling once they explain it to me They usually laugh too, so it works.

 

[Max]

To EJCC (and/or any other fellow ESTJ who wishes to answer):

Do you ever find yourself in a "panic mode" where you're more withdrawn from people and unlike your usual self?

I ask this because I think that for a long time, I wanted to avoid my panic mode from coming on, and I thought it was mostly due to situations with other people, so I tended to avoid others and considered myself an introvert for many years. I remember several years ago when I took the test at school for the first time and scored as an ISTJ. I've always had issues with trusting others, which I've come to believe is more of a T thing than an I thing though. I really do enjoy the company of others and I find myself feeling better and energized around other people, which I think is the way I've always been, but just never really wanted to acknowledge it until recently.

 

[EJCC]

To EJCC (and/or any other fellow ESTJ who wishes to answer):

Do you ever find yourself in a "panic mode" where you're more withdrawn from people and unlike your usual self?

I ask this because I think that for a long time, I wanted to avoid my panic mode from coming on, and I thought it was mostly due to situations with other people, so I tended to avoid others and considered myself an introvert for many years. I remember several years ago when I took the test at school for the first time and scored as an ISTJ. I've always had issues with trusting others, which I've come to believe is more of a T thing than an I thing though. I really do enjoy the company of others and I find myself feeling better and energized around other people, which I think is the way I've always been, but just never really wanted to acknowledge it until recently.

I haven't really had this problem. In the times when I'm most socially withdrawn, it's not panic - it's insecurity, or anger, or self-pity. What were the sorts of situations that made you panic?

 

[Max]

it's insecurity, or anger, or self-pity.

I see. I think any of those words could actually replace "panic" wherever I used it.

One specific situation where this happens is one that's recurring. My assigned roommate here at college is my best friend. My original hope was just that my roommate wouldn't suck, cause you know, it's often a problem where roommates don't get along with each other. But what happened was that he turned out to be so much more and so much greater than I expected him to be, and I just love him to death. Unfortunately, he does not feel the same way about me. He is a much more laid-back individual than I am, and he has a girlfriend and I don't, so that's a lot of extra time on my hands that I would like to be spending with him that he doesn't have. I get this irrational worry that he can't stand me and that he doesn't want to be with me. Though I know in my better times that it's not true, it's affected me to a pretty high level.

This kind of goes back to what I said before about developing connections with people. Two of my other best friends found each other in a group that we were all in and they immediately discovered a strong connection to each other, and I find myself very jealous of that and I wish that I could have it with them and with my roommate.

He's an ESTP, by the way.

 

[EJCC]

^ O...M...G. So THIS is what empathy feels like just kidding.

But yeah, I was in pretty much that same situation a while ago, being single with a roommate with a boyfriend. It was really hard at first, though in my case it was mostly because I wished I had a boyfriend too, and not because I wanted to spend more time with my roommate. I started feeling inferior to her, and like... well, you know what I'm talking about. You had a similar example.

...It's like, you know, we have this hard exterior, and we want so badly to be tough, but sometimes these little insecure thoughts pop up, and when you can't shove them out of your mind, things get bad.

It's so cool to talk about this with another ESTJ! Yay Max

p.s. An attempt at reassurance: Just because he has a girlfriend, doesn't automatically mean that he doesn't hold you in the same high esteem that you hold him in.

 

[Max]

^ O...M...G. So THIS is what empathy feels like just kidding.

It is!

But yeah, I was in pretty much that same situation a while ago, being single with a roommate with a boyfriend. It was really hard at first, though in my case it was mostly because I wished I had a boyfriend too, and not because I wanted to spend more time with my roommate. I started feeling inferior to her, and like... well, you know what I'm talking about. You had a similar example.

...

p.s. An attempt at reassurance: Just because he has a girlfriend, doesn't automatically mean that he doesn't hold you in the same high esteem that you hold him in.

Another part of this whole situation that I had failed to mention before is that him and my two other best friends that I mentioned, they all got into this fraternity earlier this semester, and I did not get accepted in. They all had advantages over me because they're all from Florida and have had opportunities to visit the school beforehand and meet the guys in the fraternity and learn about what it was, whereas I didn't because I'm from far away, and I had many changes to adjust to and I was moving along a lot more slowly than they were. So that's another thing that takes away a lot of the time that I can spend with him and the other guys now.

And also, one reason that I want to spend more time with him is because I'll find a girl that I like, but it's really impossible for me to make any progress with her by myself. I need help and I can't get it anymore because I don't have any friends by my side. So it does connect even more to your situation somewhat.

...It's like, you know, we have this hard exterior, and we want so badly to be tough, but sometimes these little insecure thoughts pop up, and when you can't shove them out of your mind, things get bad.

Absolutely true. Part of it is that I strive to be perfect and that I want no less, but it's really hard to accept when I can't have the best.

It's so cool to talk about this with another ESTJ! Yay Max

Any time!

 

[EJCC]

Hey, random question for Max or any other ESTJ: Do you ever get really visceral reactions to things that you remember? e.g. an embarrassing memory comes to your mind, and it's like you're reliving it, and you maybe have a physical response, like grimacing or something?

 

[Max]

Hey, random question for Max or any other ESTJ: Do you ever get really visceral reactions to things that you remember? e.g. an embarrassing memory comes to your mind, and it's like you're reliving it, and you maybe have a physical response, like grimacing or something?

O-M-frickin'-G... You have no idea. It happens so much, and sometimes someone'll see me in my state of recalling it or talking to myself. But yes, this is definitely something that happens to me all the time. That is most definitely an interesting coincidence that it happens to both of us.

 

[EJCC]

^ We should see if anybody else has this happen. I wonder if I should start a thread about it...

Another question: do you feel really bad after you open up to people, sometimes? Most girls I know find ranting and crying and such to be cathartic, but when I do that, I just feel bad about it later. My theory is that the unpleasant feeling is upsetness with the fact that I acted "weak". Yet another reason why being a T girl in an F girl society is obnoxious... it encourages you to open up like that, so I do (often), but I don't like doing it.

I ask because most ESTJ guys I've heard about don't really open up much at all, and so they don't talk about what it's like when they do. And I want to know if this is just me, or just ESTJ girls, or ESTJs in general.

 

[Keps Mnemnosyne]

I do have physical reactions to memories, so it might just be a overall human thing, but perhaps ESTJs would notice it more?

I, as a F, also feel crummy for ranting and falling apart, but instead of worrying about whether I am weak (because I know I am ) it is more of I just ruined someone's day which makes me feel crappier. I prefer the system that I had with my best friend, of complaining to each other equally, although I know I fell apart more than he did, alas.

Sorry for answering questions you may not have wished answered here.

Anyways, how does empathy feel for ESTJs? I am really glad to see a few more of them pop up.

 

[Ontop]

I have another question for an ESTJ, can any of you relate to this?

"During a debate, if I convince you to change your opinions to what is believed to be a fact, this is to benefit you. But don't you dare convince me"

basically, a double standard. Can any ESTJ relate to this?

 

[EJCC]

I do have physical reactions to memories, so it might just be a overall human thing, but perhaps ESTJs would notice it more?

Hm... interesting. I have no idea.

I, as a F, also feel crummy for ranting and falling apart, but instead of worrying about whether I am weak (because I know I am ) it is more of I just ruined someone's day which makes me feel crappier. I prefer the system that I had with my best friend, of complaining to each other equally, although I know I fell apart more than he did, alas.

Sorry for answering questions you may not have wished answered here.

No problem - it really shows the NF-STJ difference, with regards to opening up. In all honesty, the idea that my feelings are a burden on others never crosses my mind when I'm upset. When I'm upset, I'm self-centered, and I live in my own head. Lots of inner turmoil, sometimes.

Anyways, how does empathy feel for ESTJs? I am really glad to see a few more of them pop up.

In my case? Mild, or nonexistent. But it depends on a few factors - prior mood, whether I've experienced a similar event, etc. Also, it really, really depends on whether I like the person. I probably won't empathize with someone if I dislike them.

I can't remember any instances, at the moment, where I've felt the sort of vague, amorphous empathy that NFs are capable of (i.e. empathy that can fit in any situation, regardless of whether they've experienced a similar situation), but if someone has experienced something that I've been through too, I may empathize by reliving my own memories, either emotionally, or specifically, or both. Usually this only happens with really strong ones, though - if someone comes up to me and tells me that they failed a test, regardless of whether they're a close friend or not, I won't empathize with them even the slightest bit unless I can tell that they're upset about it too.

Does that make sense? I dunno if it's like this for other ESTJs.

I have another question for an ESTJ, can any of you relate to this?

"During a debate, if I convince you to change your opinions to what is believed to be a fact, this is to benefit you. But don't you dare convince me"

basically, a double standard. Can any ESTJ relate to this?

Oh yeah I can. It's our way of saying "Death or glory! You will never defeat me!!!" If we lose an argument, or, worse yet, if we're convinced that the other side is correct, the immediate response will probably be shame and humiliation, and not simple acknowledgment that the other side is right. Also, we tend to think that we're always right, and that, therefore, since our way is the "true" way, that we're helping people by sharing that "way" with them.

 

[Tamske]

ESTJs and fantasy...

I like the fantasy genre of books and movies. My husband (the best ESTJ in the world, remember ) has learnt to appreciate the genre because of me. Yesterday we watched a Narnia movie... and we discussed this.
He has problems with fantasy. He is almost unable to enter the "suspension of disbelief" needed to appreciate the genre fully. He connected this to his type. I'll cite him:
"When there is magic and such, I enter a Vernon Dursley mode and I'm thinking all the time: this is not possible! I can only appreciate it if I can take it slowly and get used to the strange things occurring in those magic worlds."

Is this common with you, ESTJs?

Note: sometimes I have difficulties with suspension of disbelief too, but mostly they stem from a lack of internal consistency in the story.

 

[EJCC]

^ I certainly don't have that problem. I don't think I relate to it even remotely. I love fantasy books. Maybe it has something to do with whether you grew up with them. Maybe he didn't read them as a kid (unlike me; I was a huge bookworm as a child, and read a lot of fantasy).

 

[Tamske]

^ I certainly don't have that problem. I don't think I relate to it even remotely. I love fantasy books. Maybe it has something to do with whether you grew up with them. Maybe he didn't read them as a kid (unlike me; I was a huge bookworm as a child, and read a lot of fantasy).

Seems reasonable. Hubby was (and is) also a huge bookworm... history, atlasses, climate and meteorology,...
I was just wondering whether a (non-)preference for fantasy had anything to do with type. Maybe it is something like this... if an ESTJ is used to something, it's easy as pie for him/her?

 

[hanadul83]

Hi, I'm new here Signed up on this site to get help and advice about my ESTJ boyfriend. Um, I'm an exfj (but these days more of an eNfj) and I'm struggling with the intimacy (emotional connection) part of my relationship with my ESTJ. I appreciate that he's so rationale, logical, and emotionally stable, but sometimes I wish he'd be more emotionally in tune with himself and even verbalize/express that to me. He says he has the emotional capacity of a rhino I actually consider him to be very sensitive (maybe just mentally and socially) and quick, albeit thick-skinned and very masculine; he always knows when something's not right w/me. But if I ask him how he's feeling and it's anything other than angry, frustrated, or upset, it's like we hit a wall. Can you tell me how can we become more emotionally connected? Also, any advice for communicating these things to him w/o making him feel inadequate or unaccepted for who he is?