[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

[iwakar]

What are your personal thoughts on ISFPs?

 

[EJCC]

I'm very good friends with someone who I think might be an ISFP. I almost considered asking him out once. However, when I'm with him alone, I have a hard time filling up the silence, if you know what I mean, which would make dating him awkward. He's a lot easier to be around in a public setting, for me. I like his independent spirit, but in some aspects (read: unusual facial hair, unibrow that he refuses to trim, occasionally bizarre remarks that may/may not be attempts at humor), he's just weird for the sake of being weird, and completely unaware of the fact that it makes him seem, to other people, like almost a novelty, and not like who he really is - a kind, considerate, creative guy. And he wonders why he doesn't have a girlfriend!! But I digress.

In short: I haven't met enough ISFPs to make any real judgment on them, but I like the one I know.

 

[Fidelia]

Hello again - I missed being here the last week while we were without internet access, but reading over the last couple of pages, I enjoyed the discussion.

EJCC, if I understood correctly, you referred to the ESTJ need for knowing where they fit into a particular hierarchy, and a tendancy to need to prove their competency over at least some others when they feel a little outshone by some. You also mentioned that they find it easier to appreciate others who are on a different ladder than them, as it poses less threat. I would have to say I really agree with both of those observations.

I think especially if you are going to be the spouse/SO of an ESTJ, it is important to find either very different areas of work, or separate areas of expertise. Otherwise, an unhealthy need to compete can develop on the part of the ESTJ.

My question for you is, if they share some areas of overlap, what could the SO do to minimize that feeling of being threatened? Do those feelings also extend to areas of social popularity, interests/hobbies outside of work etc, or would they be limited to work only?

 

[EJCC]

Welcome back to the thread! I always love your questions.

You were right in how you interpreted my comments. That was exactly what I meant. Now, for answering your question:

My question for you is, if they share some areas of overlap, what could the SO do to minimize that feeling of being threatened? Do those feelings also extend to areas of social popularity, interests/hobbies outside of work etc, or would they be limited to work only?

Whether the relationship falls apart depends on the ESTJ, and how insecure they are about certain facets of themselves. For example, an ESTJ who plays piano, either as a hobby or as a job. If they're satisfied with their position on the piano hierarchy, as in "I'm okay with being only an average piano player, and I feel no need to be better", then if they have an SO who is an immensely talented professional pianist, they're not as likely to have a problem with it. This applies with hobbies, work, social situations... most things, but all in different degrees. Everything has a hierarchy. That's just how we view things.

As to how to minimize the threatened feeling... I'm not sure if there's anything that the SO could do. After all, it's all in the mindset of the ESTJ, and they're pretty stubborn. Maybe if there was a way to remind them that everyone's good at certain things and bad at others, and to tell them what they're good at in particular, just to remind them that they're still better than you at something? Just as a way of balancing out the cold truth. That sounds pretty terrible, but it's the only thing I can think of at the moment.

 

[Fidelia]

Doesn't sound terrible at all. We all need our niche. I have just found that for ESTJs it seems to matter even more.

If you were to be the parent of an ESTJ I think this is worth considering in terms of making sure they have a position in the family that will not be taken over by another sibling and that they have something they feel uncontenstibly good at where others close to them are not in direct competition.

I think that ESTJs may be prone to some strong insecurities (as all types are in different ways) due to the fact that they are very hard on themselves, will not accept the opinions of their performance coming from anyone but certain people, feel strongly there is a right way of doing things, and don't spend much time analyzing how they feel or why. Nobody would ever guess this, because in general I have found them to be extremely competent at everything they try, or else they work hard to quickly become so. They are good at hiding those insecurities at first and so people often perceive them as being extra strong as well as unbending and get angry with them, which really is too bad.

If you were a parent of an ESTJ, what do you think you could do as they were growing up to help ease some of the insecure feelings as well as help them understand earlier how they may be perceived by others?

 

[matilda]

he's just weird for the sake of being weird, and completely unaware of the fact that it makes him seem, to other people, like almost a novelty, and not like who he really is - a kind, considerate, creative guy.

I don't understand

Please elaborate?

Thank you.

 

[EJCC]

I think that ESTJs may be prone to some strong insecurities (as all types are in different ways) due to the fact that they are very hard on themselves, will not accept the opinions of their performance coming from anyone but certain people, feel strongly there is a right way of doing things, and don't spend much time analyzing how they feel or why. Nobody would ever guess this, because in general I have found them to be extremely competent at everything they try, or else they work hard to quickly become so. They are good at hiding those insecurities at first and so people often perceive them as being extra strong as well as unbending and get angry with them, which really is too bad.

Astute! I can relate to this entire paragraph.

If you were a parent of an ESTJ, what do you think you could do as they were growing up to help ease some of the insecure feelings as well as help them understand earlier how they may be perceived by others?

I'm not sure if it would be a type-related thing. If you have an insecure kid, does it matter if they're an ESTJ or any other type? You respond accordingly. If you're a good parent, and if you understand your ESTJ kid, your parenting will allow them to be more secure, and any potential problems will be minimized.

I don't understand

Please elaborate?

Thank you.

Well, he's really into expressing his creativity. He flaunts his weirdness - wears it like a badge. For instance, he thinks of his appearance as an expression of his creativity. He doesn't care about looking good, i.e. appealing, but he cares about looking... interesting. He experiments a lot with facial hair, and he's grown his hair out to his shoulders. (On good days, he looks like a mountain man, and on bad days, he looks like Frank Zappa.) And, as mentioned before, the unibrow. Oh jeez, the UNIBROW.
Therefore, when people see him, they either think "Wow, he's entertaining/funny looking", or "He's a scary-lookin' dude", but not much else. They don't bother trying to dig any deeper. And if he continues to look like he does, I don't think he'll ever find the right girl for him. He wonders why he doesn't have a girlfriend, and yet it's so obvious! What girl would, when given the choice, pick a mountain man over a tall-dark-and-handsome type? It's sad, really.

 

[Strawberrylover]

Love this thread.

EJCC, I have a question for you about a frustrating friend of mine who I'm pretty sure is an ESTJ.

She pretty much ignores me in social situations, barely says hello and once we were at the beach together for a whole day with some other people and she barely talked to me THE WHOLE DAY. I would try to start conversations and she replies with one word or one sentence and then... no follow up. She had her closest two friends with her at the beach who she'd talk to and then just basically ignored me and one other person the rest of the time. WHAT IS UP WITH THAT?

Granted, our friendship had a rocky start. I bristled at her controlling nature and judgmental attitude and overlooked her giving and generous side. She probably felt invaded by my personal questions (which I have to say were probably too personal too early) and couldn't see that that was my way of showing I care about my friends. There were also some strange dynamics in our group of friends when we first met that contributed to us growing to not like each other.

I still can't really take her loudmouthing sometimes or her judgmental attitude toward people, although she's been toning it down recently for whatever reason and I've grown to understand and like her more. Point being, she seems like a good person and I can foresee a better friendship between us in the future.

My question to you is, how do I help get it to that point? Thank ya!!

 

[StephMC]

What should I get the ESTJ I'm seeing for his birthday? I'm broke, and he's not... and he seems to have everything he needs. Helpppp!

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Hmmm...have you ever heard him complain about something he uses? For example, a watch that pinches him? Or a gym bag that he wishes was bigger? I've found that they've always appreciated getting something practical. Yet, I've always thrown in something smaller and unpractical too. (maybe it's the NP in me, but I like to throw in something unexpected too) My ex was a cop and on one bday I got him concert tickets and a little stuffed pig

This was his response -----> (but he kept it on the dash of his truck - so I think he liked it)

 

[Fidelia]

My ESTJ really liked anything practical. Even when he had the money for something, he wanted to be really sure that he needed it before he'd get it for himself. He also tended to buy practical gifts, but they were always the kind of thing that were amazing to get. For example a set of 4 star Henkel's knives because he knew that cooking would be so much more enjoyable and I just didn't know the greatness of having knives like that! Most people thought it was an odd first Christmas together present, but I was thrilled. I think for ESTJ presents quality is important in addition to functionality. It would be better to be something small, but useful and nice than something big, but unpractical or that wouldn't last. Also anything that makes a living area nicer, like a picture that means something etc. Let's see - things like a nice sleeping bag for camping, getting something that he's wanted but seems to frivolous for him to buy for himself (eg that pair of boots he's been wishing for even though the ones he has still work fine), kitchen stuff, a good book...

 

[EJCC]

She pretty much ignores me in social situations, barely says hello and once we were at the beach together for a whole day with some other people and she barely talked to me THE WHOLE DAY. I would try to start conversations and she replies with one word or one sentence and then... no follow up. She had her closest two friends with her at the beach who she'd talk to and then just basically ignored me and one other person the rest of the time. WHAT IS UP WITH THAT?

Wow. That's really inconsiderate. But it makes sense, if she really doesn't like you. We CAN hold a grudge...

I still can't really take her loudmouthing sometimes or her judgmental attitude toward people, although she's been toning it down recently for whatever reason and I've grown to understand and like her more. Point being, she seems like a good person and I can foresee a better friendship between us in the future.

My question to you is, how do I help get it to that point? Thank ya!!

Interesting how well this question relates to LotsofHeart's anecdote about unresponsive ESTJs. My answer to that was: bring up something that they're passionate about, and show interest in it. ESTJs open up right away when something gets brought out that they feel strongly about. Do you know her well enough to try something like that? If not, I'd just try proving her bad impression of you incorrect. You seem to know what she didn't like about you before. If you interact with her in a way that proves the opposite...
but I dunno if that's applicable.

What should I get the ESTJ I'm seeing for his birthday? I'm broke, and he's not... and he seems to have everything he needs. Helpppp!

I agree that you'd be better off getting something practical. Just like what MDP2525 said, try to remember if there was any small thing that he's complained about, and get him something that would deal with that small thing. If not, try getting him a food item that he really likes. We love food

 

[StephMC]

So... what about a nice, fragrant bonsai tree? ... I only say that because he has a lot of plants and is always watering them. And a bonsai tree would be nicer looking than at least a few of them. He really likes his apartment looking nice. :rolli:

 

[Clonester]

So... what about a nice, fragrant bonsai tree? ... I only say that because he has a lot of plants and is always watering them. And a bonsai tree would be nicer looking than at least a few of them. He really likes his apartment looking nice. :rolli:

Since he likes plants and takes care of them that sounds like a really good idea. Of course, then he'll always think of you when he waters it, lol.

 

[Nonsensical]

Ok, I'm asking an ESTJ.

Where do babies really come from?

 

[Strawberrylover]

Wow. That's really inconsiderate. But it makes sense, if she really doesn't like you. We CAN hold a grudge...

Ooooh boy. I think I know what she was mad about. It's been like two months since the beach trip tho. Man, you guys CAN hold a grudge.

Interesting how well this question relates to LotsofHeart's anecdote about unresponsive ESTJs. My answer to that was: bring up something that they're passionate about, and show interest in it. ESTJs open up right away when something gets brought out that they feel strongly about. Do you know her well enough to try something like that? If not, I'd just try proving her bad impression of you incorrect. You seem to know what she didn't like about you before. If you interact with her in a way that proves the opposite...
but I dunno if that's applicable.

This kinda helps. Thanks.

 

[EJCC]

So... what about a nice, fragrant bonsai tree? ... I only say that because he has a lot of plants and is always watering them. And a bonsai tree would be nicer looking than at least a few of them. He really likes his apartment looking nice. :rolli:

That sounds awesome! If I were him, I would love it. (Actually, I would love it anyways - so pretty )

Ok, I'm asking an ESTJ.

Where do babies really come from?

They come from wherever I say they come from!

 

[Virtual ghost]

When a ESTJ takes a look at INTJ what do they see ?
To be more specific, which are the differences they see between these two types ?

 

[EJCC]

^^
Well, there's the obvious I vs. E difference. There's the fact that INTJs are sillier around people they know and are more comfortable with, while ESTJs are sillier around people they don't know, in an effort to impress them. (Makes for a lot of head-shaking by the ESTJ once they get to be friends.) When I see an INTJ, though, I mostly see the similarities, both good (e.g. mutual bluntness/honesty), and oddly enough, the similarities are often what bug me most (e.g. the tendency to ignore facts that don't mesh well with our beliefs). One big difference that I've noticed with the INTJs that I know is that they can read people so well - almost at an INFJ level, sometimes - whereas ESTJs are often completely oblivious to other people's personal needs.

Not that your average ESTJ will see all this nuance in an INTJ right away. We'll probably think something along these lines: "Quiet, honest, intelligent, bold, blunt. An interesting person. A little bit intimidating. Hm." But then again, in my experience, when you first encounter an INTJ, you aren't seeing all of them. They have more depth than what's on the surface. (It's the same with ESTJs, really.)

I think ESTJs and INTJs are very compatible in friendships. It's like an ESTJ-INFJ pairing, only without the traditional problems.

 

[Fidelia]

Excellent description! I liked what you said about the silliness thing. I never thought about it in that light, but that's exactly true.