Coronavirus

[Jaguar]

Michigan: rightwing militia groups to protest stay-at-home orders | US news | The Guardian
Thursday’s protest will be latest in a series that are now generating fears of an eruption of political violence

Look at those cute costumes. Booga booga.

 

[anticlimatic]

All this because you can't handle a female Dem Governor. Deal with it. You can't have one set of rules for Gretchen and another set of rules for Donnie.

4) When all else fails smoke out with a nice Ni inspired straw man before quickly changing the subject.

 

[Jaguar]

4) When all else fails smoke out with a nice Ni inspired straw man before quickly changing the subject.

It's been my point since the inception: You have a problem with Gretchen. Were she a male Republican, we wouldn't even be having this conversation since you'd be running interference for him.

 

[Jaguar]

The latest polling shows 72% of Michiganders approve of how she’s handled the situation.
'Big Gretch': how the pandemic pushed Michigan's governor into the spotlight | US news | The Guardian

 

[Z Buck McFate]

The "protests" are also 100% political, backed by GOP lawmakers and Republican donors. This fact also gets dismissed by most on the right as well even though the MI GOP is very open about their involvement and support.

With the help of trolls and bots, if Business Insider has any credibilty: Trolls and bots are flooding social media with disinformation encouraging states to end quarantine

 

[Virtual ghost]

Yeah I've never known anyone on the right who's willing to accuse Trump of politicizing COVID, even though he politicizes everything.

Actually here criticizing him or subtly mocking him in right wing media or circles isn't anything that new or strange. Since here he is either seen as a natural disaster or is simply ignored. Especially since here he is more defined politically as Capitalist rather than a right winger or conservative. After all here the right leads COVID response and they deployed something far more rigid than what even most Dems. wanted. What is because dominant group in these parts are conservatives that possibly don't have a single libertarian bone in them (because dominant historic factor is war, not trade). Plus Libertarianism is generally seen as fundamentally anti-christian and the Church is even fairly open about that. This is probably why entire Central Europe is doing pretty well in this crisis, since here libertarianism has no real historic roots. I know this is out of the box but I am saying it anyway.

 

[anticlimatic]

It's been my point since the inception: You have a problem with Gretchen. Were she a male Republican, we wouldn't even be having this conversation since you'd be running interference for him.

The ol straw man ad hominem combo, an NTJs best and oldest friend.

 

[Jaguar]

The ol straw man ad hominem combo, an NTJs best and oldest friend.

Gretchie Gretchie goo.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Actually here criticizing him or subtly mocking him in right wing media or circles isn't anything that new or strange. Since here he is either seen as a natural disaster or is simply ignored. Especially since here he is more defined politically as Capitalist rather than a right winger or conservative. After all here the right leads COVID response and they deployed something far more rigid than what even most Dems. wanted. What is because dominant group in these parts are conservatives that possibly don't have a single libertarian bone in them (because dominant historic factor is war, not trade). Plus Libertarianism is generally seen as fundamentally anti-christian and the Church is even fairly open about that. This is probably why entire Central Europe is doing pretty well in this crisis, since here libertarianism has no real historic roots. I know this is out of the box but I am saying it anyway.

What I wanted say is that most of anti-right rants on this forum are actually anti-libertarian rants. Angela Merkel voters surely would play their cards differently in the case this is going in in their country. While Orbanists are going even further in system control. Right without plenty of libertarian and individualistic market freedoms is possible, but it doesn't really exist in English speaking world.

 

[Vendrah]

With the help of trolls and bots, if Business Insider has any credibilty: Trolls and bots are flooding social media with disinformation encouraging states to end quarantine

Its that on my country since the beginning.

Its incredible how the left is supposed to be wrong while the bot trolls are in majority spreading right-wing messages.

 

[Vendrah]

What I wanted say is that most of anti-right rants on this forum are actually anti-libertarian rants. Angela Merkel voters surely would play their cards differently in the case this is going in in their country. While Orbanists are going even further in system control. Right without plenty of libertarian and individualistic market freedoms is possible, but it doesn't really exist in English speaking world.

It used to exist in Brazil about 20 years ago.
But I think that today we can say that it no longer exists in the whole America except in Cuba and Venezuela.
Anyway, libertarianism doesnt equal freedom.

 

[Maou]

Wait, people actually think "trolls and bots" are a thing? Thats just how the media labels internet goers who don't fall for their tricks, such as "The hacker known as 4chan". While 4channers troll, they do not use lies to do so. They use half truths, and narratives. Exactly like the MsM uses to spread its ideas. They also have a monopoly on memes, and are far more in touch with reality. So their "power" would be on par, with "bots" polluting the net with sheer numbers. Any fluff actual bots posts, is pretty uncommon and usually obvious.

 

[Virtual ghost]

It used to exist in Brazil about 20 years ago.

Well, here one of the most common talking points of the right is: fight the liberals and interest groups before they privatize everything.




Anyway.

Worldometer says +11500 for Brazil today.

Coronavirus pandemic: Is Brazil the new epicenter?



The testing is about 10-15 times lower per capita than typical first world nation but the country is already at 190 000 confirmed cases thus far. Therefore in the real numbers Brazil could be even worse even than US, which also has quite unclear situation in the exact number of cases.

 

[Vendrah]

Well, here one of the most common talking points of the right is: fight the liberals and interest groups before they privatize everything.




Anyway.

Worldometer says +11500 for Brazil today.

Coronavirus pandemic: Is Brazil the new epicenter?



The testing is about 10-15 times lower per capita than typical first world nation but the country is already at 190 000 confirmed cases thus far. Therefore in the real numbers Brazil could be even worse even than US, which also has quite unclear situation in the exact number of cases.

What I answered to [MENTION=1206]cascadeco[/MENTION] a few days earlier here remains.

What we have here is basically one far-right wing president that also supports this view of "lets re-open" (actually, its "we should never close"), its a guy that basically is fighting successfully the quarantine, since we have a lot of masked numbers, and perhaps about 50% of the country is in quarantine (the other half is pretty much operating as usual, some without masks because it is just a flu). A lot big enterpreneurs and far right wing are completely in-line and in favour with this. Some governors and mayors are rebelling, while some others are following along. But Brazil never saw a full scale quarantine, and the minority of cities are quarantined (and some are in like a half-quaratine, a very loose quarantine).

Economy is still screwed (it was already being bad after 4 years of neoliberalism that only did promises and bring very few results), lots of people are dying and I already accepted that more will, lots of hospital are full. I even calculated what is the probability of me losing a family member (30-35%), and since it did get less than 50% Im not ready to see anyone of them dying, but I already know at least one of them will suffer hard from the disease. Thats it, in short term.

This is where the right wing and [MENTION=20035]anticlimatic[/MENTION] arguments are mostly winning, this is where the "fuck the disease lets open the economy" leads. But we do know that's neoliberalism thing anyway (not admitting flaws and wanting to keep open).

We reach a moment where this subject is indeed deciding people lives in terms of living and dying, I am being very patient in respect of MODs but some people here are supporting death with no single doubt.

 

[anticlimatic]

Just for clarity's sake, what "very trustworthy" source(s) are Democrats supposed to accuse Republicans of mindlessly deferring to when Republicans make sweeping generalizations like this about "most" of a party based on the most visible representation?

(I would actually love to know. It's not just you, pretty much all the Republicans I know get evasive about it and refuse to say where they get their information - like you don't want to admit the source or you truly don't know.)

We get our news from the same place everyone else does. We just trust that the opposite of whatever they are peddling is the truth, and oddly enough, it works out. Like watching accidental satire, but understanding the joke.

 

[Coriolis]

Because public policy is to ensure that no unnecessary lives are lost, its appropriate that we set the speed limit to 5 miles per hour for essential buisness commuters so that no unnecessary harm befalls them. Safety first doesn't and should not end with coronavirus. That would be hypocritical.

You are missing some rather obvious connections between cause and effect here, and in the process, making statements that are quite ludicrous.

 

[Virtual ghost]

What I answered to [MENTION=1206]cascadeco[/MENTION] a few days earlier here remains.

What we have here is basically one far-right wing president that also supports this view of "lets re-open" (actually, its "we should never close"), its a guy that basically is fighting successfully the quarantine, since we have a lot of masked numbers, and perhaps about 50% of the country is in quarantine (the other half is pretty much operating as usual, some without masks because it is just a flu). A lot big enterpreneurs and far right wing are completely in-line and in favour with this. Some governors and mayors are rebelling, while some others are following along. But Brazil never saw a full scale quarantine, and the minority of cities are quarantined (and some are in like a half-quaratine, a very loose quarantine).

Economy is still screwed (it was already being bad after 4 years of neoliberalism that only did promises and bring very few results), lots of people are dying and I already accepted that more will, lots of hospital are full. I even calculated what is the probability of me losing a family member (30-35%), and since it did get less than 50% Im not ready to see anyone of them dying, but I already know at least one of them will suffer hard from the disease. Thats it, in short term.

This is where the right wing and [MENTION=20035]anticlimatic[/MENTION] arguments are mostly winning, this is where the "fuck the disease lets open the economy" leads. But we do know that's neoliberalism thing anyway (not admitting flaws and wanting to keep open).

We reach a moment where this subject is indeed deciding people lives in terms of living and dying, I am being very patient in respect of MODs but some people here are supporting death with no single doubt.

Well to be honest here the argument about opening is also winning (but with masks and all that jazz). However here it is different landscape because we have only a few hundred cases country wide, perhaps even if we count in the undetected positive people. Also I know or I am related to plenty of people that are vulnerable to the virus, so I fully understand your point. However I had a luck of being in the country that was forged in even bigger mess than this and therefore it is emotionally and legally ready for this kinds of things. In other words our conservative government knew that you can't fight the virus and save the economy at the same time (but if you wouldn't conserve the people then what will you conserve?) Therefore they put the economy into the freezer for 2 months, payed and helped people to stay home, ended traveling ..... and now in relative peace we can all focus on fixing the economy. We may even dodge mass lay offs if we play our cards right since that didn't kick in jet, since the freeze killed large chunk of the costs. What seems to be how you should do it since we lost less than 100 people thus far (almost all +75 or in poor health anyway). The solution is quite simple but for this to work you must not think economy is holy cow that must not be disturbed. One at the time is rarely a bad strategy.



However I am getting more and more of a impression that once this mess is really over the only things that will generally remain standing in this world will be China, EU and few developed or island nations scattered around the world.

 

[anticlimatic]

You are missing some rather obvious connections between cause and effect here, and in the process, making statements that are quite ludicrous.

What obvious connections might those be?

Models show a drastic increase of death from automobile accidents when drivers are going more than 5mph. Though I guess there isn't really much in the way of models showing that government mandated lockdowns enforced at gunpoint do much at reducing Covid19 deaths, so you're probably right.

 

[ceecee]

What obvious connections might those be?

Models show a drastic increase of death from automobile accidents when drivers are going more than 5mph. Though I guess there isn't really much in the way of models showing that government mandated lockdowns enforced at gunpoint do much at reducing Covid19 deaths, so you're probably right.

So when were you held at gunpoint? Or refused service because you didn't wear a mask? Or arrested? Fined? Anything? You were doing ok at the beginning and now you sound exactly like every other conservative insisting you are the only victims of the pandemic, persecuted and kept from earning a living, forced to live in ghettos and made to wear identifications on your clothes... oh wait that's not you. But I'm certain you would make this comparison.

You love to hold yourself up as a conservative that floats far above the typical right wing rhetoric but lately you just sound like a meme. Your politics almost don't matter at this point - come off like a tone deaf centrist liberal prick that's afraid of getting kicked out of the MAGA clubhouse.

 

[Vendrah]

Well to be honest here the argument about opening is also winning (but with masks and all that jazz). However here it is different landscape because we have only a few hundred cases country wide, perhaps even if we count in the undetected positive people. Also I know or I am related to plenty of people that are vulnerable to the virus, so I fully understand your point. However I had a luck of being in the country that was forged in even bigger mess than this and therefore it is emotionally and legally ready for this kinds of things. In other words our conservative government knew that you can't fight the virus and save the economy at the same time (but if you wouldn't conserve the people then what will you conserve?) Therefore they put the economy into the freezer for 2 months, payed and helped people to stay home, ended traveling ..... and now in relative peace we can all focus on fixing the economy. We may even dodge mass lay offs if we play our cards right since that didn't kick in jet, since the freeze killed large chunk of the costs. What seems to be how you should do it since we lost less than 100 people thus far (almost all +75 or in poor health anyway). The solution is quite simple but for this to work you must not think economy is holy cow that must not be disturbed. One at the time is rarely a bad strategy.

However I am getting more and more of a impression that once this mess is really over the only things that will generally remain standing in this world will be China, EU and few developed or island nations scattered around the world.

As we discussed before, in resume there is a whole analysis to be made, like daily deaths, transmission rate, capacity of hospitals, etc...
Some countries are ok opening.
Not mine and not US (the center of discussions here) either.

What obvious connections might those be?

Models show a drastic increase of death from automobile accidents when drivers are going more than 5mph. Though I guess there isn't really much in the way of models showing that government mandated lockdowns enforced at gunpoint do much at reducing Covid19 deaths, so you're probably right.

So, in the name of freedom, everyone can kills whatever they want, right?
Taking away the freedom of citizens to take others people life whenever they want is a completely absurd!
Models shows up that if people can kill others without law, a drastic increase in kills are going to be presented but who cares?
That is where your reasoning is getting through. Im starting to think that calling it reasoning is already way too much...