Coronavirus

[ceecee]

Well, that is kinda the main problem. (or main point)

Well we have no choice, living in economic, lack of any kind of safety net, hell world. I realize lots of people love to point out many counties botched their response. It's just a way to distract from what's happening here. "They" botched it so that's why it's here. No. Lack of a timely response and piss poor planning by federal and state officials to this virus, in this country is why we are here.

Incidentally I went to the garden center today and got 4 bags of compost, gloves and mask in place. One other person out of about 30 people did the same. One. There are 22 new cases ripping through a senior apartment and condo complex in this town. I have no hope whatsoever for this country.

 

[Red Herring]

Well we have no choice, living in economic, lack of any kind of safety net, hell world. I realize lots of people love to point out many counties botched their response. It's just a way to distract from what's happening here. "They" botched it so that's why it's here. No. Lack of a timely response and piss poor planning by federal and state officials to this virus, in this country is why we are here.

Incidentally I went to the garden center today and got 4 bags of compost, gloves and mask in place. One other person out of about 30 people did the same. One. There are 22 new cases ripping through a senior apartment and condo complex in this town. I have no hope whatsoever for this country.

I heard gloves are actually problematic as you just tend to spread germs with them.

Over here the official policy Was first that masks are of limited use (the good ones should be reserved for nurses, etc), then that they are actually highly recommend as even a little bit of protection of the people around you goes a long way. When I went downtown yesterday I'd say about a quarter were wearing masks. Since appealing to people doing it voluntarily didn't cut it, some form of cover over your nose and mouth will be compulsary now in shops and public transport starting on monday - even a bandana or scarf will do if you don't have a mask. I sewed one out of an old shirt.

That policy is part of the set of rules for loosening the lockdown in Germany. Small places only at first, under strict hygiene rules, always keeping a six foot distance. One shoe shop I saw handed out electronic beepers to every entering customer to keep control over how many people were inside. Many have signs at their door naming the maximum number of customers allowed at once.

 

[Red Herring]

Not everybody is following distancing rules of course, but they seem to work for the most part. There is a lot of talk about how children supposedly can't follow those rules. Let me tell you, when I went to the bakery with my 5 year old and a gentleman entered the (tiny) store she turned to me and said "Mama, you should step aside a bit now to increase the distance!". Yesterday I overheard a girl of the same age pointing at the marks on the ground in front of a Subway restaurant (restaurants are closed but can sell takeaway) and tell her mother "mummy, those marks are where you should stand!"

The kindergardeners get it! (Well, okay, some of them). That makes it all the more exasperating when adults don't. Maybe age isn't really the main factor. I see mostly adolescents and very old people floating the rules. A lower socio-economic and educational status also seems to play a role. And my SO recently overheard a supermarket casheer tell a customer: "Oh, I don't believe any of it, they just want to control us!"
So, yeah, if that is any consolation, idiots, we've got them too. Over 80% support for safety measures (last poll I saw) also means one in five doesn't accept them.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I heard gloves are actually problematic as you just tend to spread germs with them.

This is what I heard as well. I only use gloves to put gas in my car, when handling the pump. When I'm out shopping I put about 5 antibacterial wipes in my pockets and use them to open fridge/freezer doors, work credit card ports, and the like.

Maybe just over half the people around here (NW Indiana, along the shore of Lake Michigan) use masks while grocery shopping. And probably 85% respect the 6 foot rule. But then we're just 1 hour away from a hot spot (Chicago).

Starting May 1st, businesses in Chicago (and I think all of Illinois) can require customers to wear masks and refuse entry to anyone who isn't wearing one.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Well we have no choice, living in economic, lack of any kind of safety net, hell world. I realize lots of people love to point out many counties botched their response. It's just a way to distract from what's happening here. "They" botched it so that's why it's here. No. Lack of a timely response and piss poor planning by federal and state officials to this virus, in this country is why we are here.

Incidentally I went to the garden center today and got 4 bags of compost, gloves and mask in place. One other person out of about 30 people did the same. One. There are 22 new cases ripping through a senior apartment and condo complex in this town. I have no hope whatsoever for this country.

Actually my position on all of this is indeed a little bit on the conspiracy theory side. China when it realized it had a virus pandemic it didn't do everything possible to keep it just in China. It is just too convenient tool since they knew that it will basically destroy world order and that many liberal democracies will not be able to cope well with this. While they will have the capacity to supply most of the world with medical supplies and gain more power. Luckily EU is starting to clear from the first wave but US is indeed stuck, the country simply isn't made to handle this if it gets out of hand. While basically the entire political establishment allowed this, since they knew what is going on in China but the stock-market or whatever was more important. I admit, how to handle this without some kind of universal healthcare system, the cure or preventing travel between the states or even counties I do not know.





The great disasters and large wars have always been the greatest threat to the idea of the unlimited market. This is exactly why I will never be fully for it, since this part of the world has thought me that every few decades there will be a serious mess that can't be solved on market-individual level. Since it will simply require something more. In other words until you face in person with potential complete wipe out of the whole collective you haven't seen it all (and that is the card that is hidden somewhere in the deck). For example I have noticed that there seems to be a certain correlation in corona response and how ww2 played out for the country. Neutral countries and those whose soil was not involved in any kind of war recently tend to have much more scattered and lose response. The US, ww2 neutral Sweden, Switzerland at first, UK wanted herd immunity at first, basically whole Latin America, etc. While more structured China, S. Korea or Central Europe seem to be much more mentally and therefore legally and materially prepared for this. Since they know that the card is somewhere in the deck. My government pulled the plug stronger already at something like 70 cases than US at 200 000. Here when the government goes "Airstrike! Run for cover!" you do it because those that don't often don't make it. Later we will debate was this really justified. Because once you lose people there is no going back. "What doesn't kill you it makes you stronger" at it's best I suppose.

 

[ceecee]

This is what I heard as well. I only use gloves to put gas in my car, when handling the pump. When I'm out shopping I put about 5 antibacterial wipes in my pockets and use them to open fridge/freezer doors, work credit card ports, and the like.

Maybe just over half the people around here (NW Indiana, along the shore of Lake Michigan) use masks while grocery shopping. And probably 85% respect the 6 foot rule. But then we're just 1 hour away from a hot spot (Chicago).

Starting May 1st, businesses in Chicago (and I think all of Illinois) can require customers to wear masks and refuse entry to anyone who isn't wearing one.

I've always used gloves for gas, I limit contact with card readers (tap or phone). I notice that the more "outside" people are, the less social distancing they're doing. Like the garden center or the dog park or even the ice cream place. We made cloth masks with replaceable filters so I have enough for the family. It would be good if the orders were enforced but I'm sure you've heard about the sheriffs just blowing COVID measures off - I expect them to continue in the less.

The other thing I noticed when I shop for Mutual Aid - Walmart keeps people out/6ft distance/wipes down all the carts ahead of time and disinfectant wipes inside. Meijer has no line, maybe someone wiping down a few carts, that's it. And the two stores are less than 1 mile apart.

The real hardcore is Costco. 30-40 minute waits.

 

[cascadeco]

I've always used gloves for gas, I limit contact with card readers (tap or phone). I notice that the more "outside" people are, the less social distancing they're doing. Like the garden center or the dog park or even the ice cream place. We made cloth masks with replaceable filters so I have enough for the family. It would be good if the orders were enforced but I'm sure you've heard about the sheriffs just blowing COVID measures off - I expect them to continue in the less.

The other thing I noticed when I shop for Mutual Aid - Walmart keeps people out/6ft distance/wipes down all the carts ahead of time and disinfectant wipes inside. Meijer has no line, maybe someone wiping down a few carts, that's it. And the two stores are less than 1 mile apart.

The real hardcore is Costco. 30-40 minute waits.

I have only been to a grocery store two times, and the target liquor section two times (lol), over the past month, but at least at the stores I have gone to, they've had a staff person dedicated near the door / carts, cleaning them prior to anyone grabbing one. People seem to follow the six foot rule, since most people by now are kind of paranoid anyway, I suppose. At my recent trip to the grocery store, almost everyone had a covering/mask. Target was a little more loose, with more maskless people.

I used to shop at trader Joe's before all of this, but because it is smaller, and because they seem to be more militant like your Costco example, I haven't bothered going in because there's always been a line out the door and around the back of the building of people waiting to get in, and it's not worth it for me. I'm bummed. When I tell people this they are surprised, but my grocery costs are at least 1/3 cheaper at trader Joe's than any larger store, so I'm bummed that I'm now paying noticeably more for groceries.

I admit early on I kinda had an eyeroll reaction to mandates or strong suggestions on wearing a face covering, since I knew anything non medical grade wasn't going to be super effective, but anything is better than nothing I suppose, and it is nice to know that everyone's coughs and sneezes, at least, will be behind masks. I am eagerly awaiting two I ordered, which won't arrive for another week at least, as my bandana thing is not practical at all. Too, when I return to work masks will be required, and I imagine they'll be required for a long time to come, if not a new permanent policy.

Edit: I do think it's a store by store thing, though, and in some cases a company thing. Since I never shop at Walmart I wouldn't know how it in general is handling things, but a day or so ago I saw a news item about one store in the area being shut down by the state due to three deaths with ties to it, and many infections. So it seems the public health dept of the state is keeping tabs on these things.

 

[FemMecha]

In Wisconsin about 1/4 to 1/3 are wearing masks in the grocery store, and fewer of the cashiers. People go inside the store and shop as usual and no one is wiping down the credit card machines that I saw. I went a couple of times this past week. The store in my town is fairly well stocked even with toilet paper now. There are over 5,000 confirmed cases here, but I think there is a large population of people resisting the social distancing.

When I go on walks around the lake people seem to be keeping distance walking, but there are some people playing ball in the ballfields and they are interacting as you normally would in those games.

Those are the only two places I've gone out to see what's happening since March 21st.

I did speak to a professor in a therapy-related field that said the hospitals have specific staff dedicated to treating the coronavirus cases and they have to live at the hospital and are not allowed to go home until this is over. The hospitals are also preparing for an increase of cases with the understanding this is still going to get a lot worse here.

 

[ceecee]

I have only been to a grocery store two times, and the target liquor section two times (lol), over the past month, but at least at the stores I have gone to, they've had a staff person dedicated near the door / carts, cleaning them prior to anyone grabbing one. People seem to follow the six foot rule, since most people by now are kind of paranoid anyway, I suppose. At my recent trip to the grocery store, almost everyone had a covering/mask. Target was a little more loose, with more maskless people.

I used to shop at trader Joe's before all of this, but because it is smaller, and because they seem to be more militant like your Costco example, I haven't bothered going in because there's always been a line out the door and around the back of the building of people waiting to get in, and it's not worth it for me. I'm bummed. When I tell people this they are surprised, but my grocery costs are at least 1/3 cheaper at trader Joe's than any larger store, so I'm bummed that I'm now paying noticeably more for groceries.

I admit early on I kinda had an eyeroll reaction to mandates or strong suggestions on wearing a face covering, since I knew anything non medical grade wasn't going to be super effective, but anything is better than nothing I suppose, and it is nice to know that everyone's coughs and sneezes, at least, will be behind masks. I am eagerly awaiting two I ordered, which won't arrive for another week at least, as my bandana thing is not practical at all. Too, when I return to work masks will be required, and I imagine they'll be required for a long time to come, if not a new permanent policy.

Edit: I do think it's a store by store thing, though, and in some cases a company thing. Since I never shop at Walmart I wouldn't know how it in general is handling things, but a day or so ago I saw a news item about one store in the area being shut down by the state due to three deaths with ties to it, and many infections. So it seems the public health dept of the state is keeping tabs on these things.

I haven't even tried TJ's or Costco. Aldi does have shields for the cashiers, I noticed. Target, at least the two I have been in were pretty good about masks/gloves for cashiers but no shield when I was there.

The most stringent where I least expected it was the liquor store but they are even in normal times. 5 ppl max, no sock money period, that sort of thing.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I saw some dude in gloves reaching up and touching all over his face to adjust his glasses

 

[Z Buck McFate]

The real hardcore is Costco. 30-40 minute waits.

Same here. I've not been able to find a time when there's less than a 20+ line waiting to get in. It's nuts.

I'm not sure how the other local stores are limiting the number of people; for practically all of them there's an employee at the entrance counting and an area cordoned off for lines (with 6 ft. spacing marks) yet I've not once seen an actual line anywhere but Costco. I suspect it's for people getting there as the store opens (wanting to shop when it's cleanest), but the hell if I'm ever getting up early enough to find out.

As for cleanliness (wiping down carts), I've noticed the more affluent areas are most vigilant about it - the suburb is more indicative of cleanliness than the chain. That probably goes without saying though. There's a Meijer out here with two guys stationed at the carts, constantly cleaning every cart that comes back and vigilantly separating the cleaned ones from the rest. Which is smart - it at least gives the impression (incorrect or not) that kind of vigilance is followed throughout the store.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I used to shop at trader Joe's before all of this, but because it is smaller, and because they seem to be more militant like your Costco example, I haven't bothered going in because there's always been a line out the door and around the back of the building of people waiting to get in, and it's not worth it for me. I'm bummed. When I tell people this they are surprised, but my grocery costs are at least 1/3 cheaper at trader Joe's than any larger store, so I'm bummed that I'm now paying noticeably more for groceries.

Trader Joe's is my favorite place to shop. I don't live close enough to one anymore for it to be my default grocery store. I miss it.

I've been meaning to make a trip to stock up on my fave TJ staples, but the prospect of waiting in a line to get in is so daunting that I keep putting it off. My son (who lives right next to one, and has already made a few TJ runs for me) has told me that the lines to get in aren't anywhere near as bad as the Costco lines.

 

[ceecee]

Trader Joe's is my favorite place to shop. I don't live close enough to one anymore for it to be my default grocery store. I miss it.

I've been meaning to make a trip to stock up on my fave TJ staples, but the prospect of waiting in a line to get in is so daunting that I keep putting it off. My son (who lives right next to one, and has already made a few TJ runs for me) has told me that the lines to get in aren't anywhere near as bad as the Costco lines.

TJ's is also my most frequently shopped store BC (before Covid). I don't have to Mutual Aid shop this week so I might wait in line. I haven't had a Japanese sweet potato for awhile.

 

[á´…eparted]

It's as if his words have consequences. Gee, imagine that.

Poison Control Centers Have Been Extra Busy Since President Trump Suggested Injecting Bleach Can Cure Coronavirus - VICE

 

[Luminous]

I saw some dude in gloves reaching up and touching all over his face to adjust his glasses

Masks are just going to spread it more. Everyone adjusting them by touching their faces. Even pharmacists.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Worldometer


Another disaster day for many counties.
Especially since it seems that Latin America is speeding up. Plus Ecuador since the yesterdays "flood" is silent.

 

[rav3n]

There's a new study coming out in four days that discusses how C19 is killing younger, even younger healthy adults, by causing blood clots that result in strokes. This is a game changer. Everyone's at high risk, except for children...for now.

 

[á´…eparted]

There's a new study coming out in four days that discusses how C19 is killing younger, even younger healthy adults, by causing blood clots that result in strokes. This is a game changer. Everyone's at high risk, except for children...for now.

This worried me a lot when I first heard this a few weeks ago and I hoped it wasn't a thing, but it appears to be so. However, fortunately, it isn't do so much to the virus itself but more to what the virus can cause. This comment from /r/science helped me relax regarding this possible outcome.

Bubble_Trouble comments on COVID-19 Linked to Large Vessel Stroke in Young Adults

 

[rav3n]

This worried me a lot when I first heard this a few weeks ago and I hoped it wasn't a thing, but it appears to be so. However, fortunately, it isn't do so much to the virus itself but more to what the virus can cause. This comment from /r/science helped me relax regarding this possible outcome.

Bubble_Trouble comments on COVID-19 Linked to Large Vessel Stroke in Young Adults

Thanks. As someone who's taking all precautions, it wasn't so much a concern for me personally but moreso, a concern for people who weren't taking the virus seriously because the majority of casualties have been the elderly. Also, people can be asymptomatic or have mild symptoms, hence won't be at a hospital for blood thinners. This is likely why some are dying at home when they've only exhibited mild symptoms.

 

[laintpe]

For one of the comments above that I can no longer find-- hydroxychloroquin is now undergoing a randomized control study at the academic hospital over here.
At work last week I was surprised to learn that people think the hospitals (in CA) are experiencing chaos and overcrowding...? The ED attending living here has been able to stay home for 3 scheduled shifts for the first time ever in 9 years. There are ~10 people in the ICU at the neighboring non-academic hospital. The "covid tents" at the other major non-academic hospital are relatively unused (--nearly all get sent home).
We should be cautious with the virus moving forward, but as someone who is involved with public mental health, I'm now far more concerned with the consequences of long-term isolation than I am with the death rate of COVID-19. When this all started I worried quite a bit for the 3 "frontline" healthcare workers and one 94-year old I'm related to, but at this point, we need to consider the potential implications of what we're doing to "keep people safe".