Coronavirus

[Jonny]

I mean she's been ineffective at anything besides bitching about Trump's existence - when the impeachment was occurring her tune was very different about the virus. She basically said the impeachment took priority over the health crisis. So she is just as much to blame and she should sit the fuck down, I am beyond sick of Pelosi and her hypocrisy.

Could you provide any evidence that she "...basically said the impeachment took priority over the health crisis." Just one piece of evidence that she said this.

 

[ceecee]

Honestly I think they both suck, but I hear a lot more people defend Pelosi like she's some saint in this whole thing and its literally a pot calling a kettle black. It drives me insane honestly. I'm not a republican even.

I don't care if you are a republican. Mitch McConnell said he impeachment took priority over the health crisis and lots of other GOP members nodded and repeated his quote. I'm not defending Nancy Pelosi but if you are sick of hypocrisy, please be sick of all of it, not just the Dem's flavor.

 

[Maou]

I think this just goes to show how little people expected from the Corona virus to begin with. I cannot really fault anyone for not being prepared, because they did not think it would be that bad. That is, until it hit its peak in China, and they lied about their numbers. The WHO did mismanage this, by allowing obvious doctored numbers to be their standard model for dealing with it. This hampered everyone's response, because they didn't want to be seen as racist.

 

[Red Memories]

I don't care if you are a republican. Mitch McConnell said he impeachment took priority over the health crisis and lots of other GOP members nodded and repeated his quote. I'm not defending Nancy Pelosi but if you are sick of hypocrisy, please be sick of all of it, not just the Dem's flavor.

Oh I am sick of them too. I think you've heard me in here saying literally every single person should be ripped out of office for their bullshit through all of this, even Trump. It is beyond awful how all of them have acted in one way or another. Both sides are yelling at one another yet, as you said, some have acted just alike. I hope we do better next time. I can tell you for sure I'm not voting for incumbents this election.

 

[Jonny]

FYI... the tag-team above is absolutely why failed politicians get away with failing. First, you have someone make a baseless accusation against a member of the opposing party, then you have another person say "well if you look at (another) person X" and finally you have someone come in and say something like "nobody could have known." Remember, that initial accusation against Pelosi has not been verified, but is taken as true for the rest of the discussion through to the conclusion.

That's simply hogwash. You absolutely can fault people for not being prepared.

Here's a recent article:

From distraction to disaster: How coronavirus crept up on Washington - POLITICO

[MENTION=33903]Jazzy Orchid[/MENTION] please give me one example of Pelosi publicly downplaying the coronavirus.

 

[Red Memories]

Could you provide any evidence that she "...basically said the impeachment took priority over the health crisis." Just one piece of evidence that she said this.

I will retract somewhat of it being an exact statement as for whatever reason I cannot find the original thing where I saw it, although it was something commonly repeated by several politicians of both parties during the time. I'm not here saying Republicans are scotch free and are not of the issue, but I am sick of outlets acting as if the other side did not repeat these things. It was something said earlier on and finding the original source has not proven easy for me. If I find the exact thing I will bring it back here. In the mean time, my word can be taken with a grain of salt as needed. Apologies for not being able to find the evidence where I originally saw it. I do not expect my claim to be heard as is unless I can find that shred of evidence again. I'll tag you if and when I do find it again.

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FYI... the tag-team above is absolutely why failed politicians get away with failing. First, you have someone make a baseless accusation against a member of the opposing party, then you have another person say "well if you look at (another) person X" and finally you have someone come in and say something like "nobody could have known." Remember, that initial accusation against Pelosi has not been verified, but is taken as true for the rest of the discussion through to the conclusion.

That's simply hogwash. You absolutely can fault people for not being prepared.

Here's a recent article:

From distraction to disaster: How coronavirus crept up on Washington - POLITICO

[MENTION=33903]Jazzy Orchid[/MENTION] please give me one example of Pelosi publicly downplaying the coronavirus.

I started my reply to you before noticing this. please see statement above.

 

[Red Memories]

Okay so the main two features of the issue I can find, which is why Pelosi's complaints anger me, that if you looked something up you could actually find something to this.

I am aware perhaps my exact words were misinformed statements possibly made in forth of a lot of people feeling angry about the hypocrisy occurring. Nevertheless:

In February, when Trump was issuing the travel ban for China due to the coronavirus, Pelosi criticized Trump's effort as racist, and encouraged people to support the Chinese community during this time. I don't think issuing a ban on travel to a nation with a health crisis is racist considering things... But this shows as early as February, she too, was not taking this as a serious threat. She claims Trump could have saved more lives by acting sooner. Sure, but it didn't sound like she was for it.

During the Coronavirus relief bill, they attempted to push Democratic party agendas into the bill. While eventually the bill got passed even without these measures, this heavily held up the discussions. I think there was some talk of it being similar on the republican side in the name of bailouts, you can correct me if wrong. Nevertheless, I scream at both parties for this.

the overall message this sends me is "pot calling the kettle black" as no one is great here. I still cannot fathom the Georgia governor suggesting he didn't know it was community spread. Either he cannot read, he is an idiot, he did not care, or a mix of all 3. The entire government has disappointed me and they are trying to save their asses by pointing the fingers at someone else. And I am actively going to call it out. Both parties, not just one.

"The Trump Administration's expansion of its outrageous, un-American travel ban threatens our security, our values and the rule of law. The sweeping rule, barring more than 350 million individuals from predominantly African nations from traveling to the United States, is discrimination disguised as policy," Pelosi said in a statement.

"With this latest callous decision, the President has doubled down on his cruelty and further undermined our global leadership, our Constitution and our proud heritage as a nation of immigrants," she added.

Pelosi immediately after the China travel restrictions.
[MENTION=9251]Jonny[/MENTION] that is what I will offer you and you may take what you will with it. I again will further let you know if I actually do find the input which has my original statement within it.

 

[Jonny]

I will retract somewhat of it being an exact statement as for whatever reason I cannot find the original thing where I saw it, although it was something commonly repeated by several politicians of both parties during the time. I'm not here saying Republicans are scotch free and are not of the issue, but I am sick of outlets acting as if the other side did not repeat these things. It was something said earlier on and finding the original source has not proven easy for me. If I find the exact thing I will bring it back here. In the mean time, my word can be taken with a grain of salt as needed. Apologies for not being able to find the evidence where I originally saw it. I do not expect my claim to be heard as is unless I can find that shred of evidence again. I'll tag you if and when I do find it again.

- - - Updated - - -



I started my reply to you before noticing this. please see statement above.

I appreciate your response. I will tell you I have been trying to search google for "Pelosi Coronavirus" and "Pelosi downplay coronavirus" setting the date to before February 15th, before March 1st, etc. but cannot find anything...

Here's an article that has her going to SF Chinatown on 2/25:

Nancy Pelosi Visits San Francisco’s Chinatown Amid Coronavirus Concerns – NBC Bay Area

Where she also mentioned that the city has things under control, but that she "was concerned that President Donald Trump's budget cuts 19% of funding for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention." In some sense, the message she was sending was, don't panic, don't be racist against Chinese-Americans and other Asian-Americans just because of how they look.

It is absolutely true that few back in February believed we'd be where we are today, but there's a difference between that and having taken steps to hinder our ability to weather or overcome the crisis and downplaying it up until the last minute. There is a difference, and it costs billions of dollars and thousands of lives.

 

[á´…eparted]

The only thing that angers me about Pelosi is that she has not been aggressive enough in combating the GOP. That said, the impeachment hearing last year demonstrated that there really isn't all that much they can do. All I can hope is that she's willing to play dirty for the sake of our survival as a country if/when it comes to it.

 

[Jonny]

"The Trump Administration's expansion of its outrageous, un-American travel ban threatens our security, our values and the rule of law. The sweeping rule, barring more than 350 million individuals from predominantly African nations from traveling to the United States, is discrimination disguised as policy," Pelosi said in a statement.

Read this very quote. He banned people from African nations. This wasn't a response to the coronavirus.

Trump's Snowballing China Travel Claim - FactCheck.org

 

[Red Memories]

I appreciate your response. I will tell you I have been trying to search google for "Pelosi Coronavirus" and "Pelosi downplay coronavirus" setting the date to before February 15th, before March 1st, etc. but cannot find anything...

Here's an article that has her going to SF Chinatown on 2/25:

Nancy Pelosi Visits San Francisco’s Chinatown Amid Coronavirus Concerns – NBC Bay Area

Where she also mentioned that the city has things under control, but that she "was concerned that President Donald Trump's budget cuts 19% of funding for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention." In some sense, the message she was sending was, don't panic, don't be racist against Chinese-Americans and other Asian-Americans just because of how they look.

It is absolutely true that few back in February believed we'd be where we are today, but there's a difference between that and having taken steps to hinder our ability to weather or overcome the crisis and downplaying it up until the last minute. There is a difference, and it costs billions of dollars and thousands of lives.

Oh don't think I feel like Trump has done well. there's been some serious tension in my house. My grandfather has been a strong Trump supporter and early on felt he was doing a good job of "not alarming the community" and we got so heated one time I quite literally told him to shove it because he was just wrong, nothing was okay about his choice to practically ignore the crisis until he could not no more. But I despise seeing it be spoken as if anyone in the current administration actually has truly given a damn whether me, my family, or anyone really lives or dies. I give credit to people like the governor of Ohio, who despite pressure, acted extremely early on the cases in their community. I ridicule those who play this who did what game to try and deflect situations or suggest somehow they were unaware of things circulating for months with just a computer search like the Georgia governor, or the Florida governor who just claimed no one under 25 has died of coronavirus. These people, I don't look at their party line. I just know when I see their name, my pencil is circling a new name. Just like my governor, in Idaho, who tried to cover up the rising cases in Blaine county here. I will be circling a different name this election without a single flinch. I will show all of these people the same respect they showed the people who are suffering longer because of their chosen arrogant ignorance because they live behind pretty white picket fences we don't all have the luxury of having.

Trump as I see it has failed. I have a high risk friend who has to work, isn't going to get much relief, and nothing in the bill forced big corporations like Walmart or Amazon to actually be forced to give their employees the leave pay and aid they absolutely need, deserve, and want. I normally despise AOC for her antics but I can understand why she said some of the things she stated about the bill during. Also, the fact the IRS is fucking up the money dispensing is a nightmare and I hope people relying on it get it sooner than later.

Thanks for taking the time to read my messy political rants. XD

 

[Jonny]

@Jazzy Orchid

I want to give you an analogy. Consider the following:

1. Party X has been advocating for increased funding for crop irrigation for years, but Party Y calls it fake news and a waste of money.
2. A drought ensues.
3. The president and head of Party Y starts to rain dance and tells everyone to participate to try to bring the rain.
4. Party X says the president is doing something stupid and tries to get people to stop wasting their energy on rain dancing.
5. The drought hits full force, crops have died, and now, finally, they are building irrigation, but it's too late to stop most of the damage.
6. "At least president did a rain dance when everyone else was saying it was stupid. We'RE aLl tHe SaMe!"

 

[Red Memories]

Read this very quote. He banned people from African nations. This wasn't a response to the coronavirus.

Trump's Snowballing China Travel Claim - FactCheck.org

thank you. There's so much stuff thrown around that certain things get muddled in that we don't get a good sight of.

also *bookmarks this website*

 

[á´…eparted]

I normally despise AOC for her antics but I can understand why she said some of the things she stated about the bill during.

Derail, but I am curious. Why the hate for her? I ask because she is by far one of my favorite politicans, has been for years, and I see a significant amount of myself in her with how she approaches doing politics. I hope in the coming years more like her enter the fold.

 

[ceecee]

Oh don't think I feel like Trump has done well. there's been some serious tension in my house. My grandfather has been a strong Trump supporter and early on felt he was doing a good job of "not alarming the community" and we got so heated one time I quite literally told him to shove it because he was just wrong, nothing was okay about his choice to practically ignore the crisis until he could not no more. But I despise seeing it be spoken as if anyone in the current administration actually has truly given a damn whether me, my family, or anyone really lives or dies. I give credit to people like the governor of Ohio, who despite pressure, acted extremely early on the cases in their community. I ridicule those who play this who did what game to try and deflect situations or suggest somehow they were unaware of things circulating for months with just a computer search like the Georgia governor, or the Florida governor who just claimed no one under 25 has died of coronavirus. These people, I don't look at their party line. I just know when I see their name, my pencil is circling a new name. Just like my governor, in Idaho, who tried to cover up the rising cases in Blaine county here. I will be circling a different name this election without a single flinch. I will show all of these people the same respect they showed the people who are suffering longer because of their chosen arrogant ignorance because they live behind pretty white picket fences we don't all have the luxury of having.

Trump as I see it has failed. I have a high risk friend who has to work, isn't going to get much relief, and nothing in the bill forced big corporations like Walmart or Amazon to actually be forced to give their employees the leave pay and aid they absolutely need, deserve, and want. I normally despise AOC for her antics but I can understand why she said some of the things she stated about the bill during. Also, the fact the IRS is fucking up the money dispensing is a nightmare and I hope people relying on it get it sooner than later.

Thanks for taking the time to read my messy political rants. XD

I'm just curious what antics AOC has committed to make you despise her. You hate Nancy Pelosi, you despise AOC. You say Trump failed, but you don't mention hating or despising him. I'm just curious where this language comes from, as far as I know AOC has been a very effective rep for her district, which are the only people she should be answering to as far as job performance. Trump on the other hand has to answer to me, you and everyone else in the country.

 

[Red Memories]

Derail, but I am curious. Why the hate for her? I ask because she is by far one of my favorite politicans, has been for years, and I see a significant amount of myself in her with how she approaches doing politics. I hope in the coming years more like her enter the fold.

Well I feel I should forewarn you: I do see myself as more democratic, but I do not see myself as a diehard progressive. There are certain things I will never agree with these people on, and that is okay. I actually admit when she was coming up, I was fond of her campaign videos because she seemed like someone who is actually aware of the struggles an every day person has which I feel like many politicians on both sides have lost sight of with all the lobbyists in their pockets.

My main AOC problems is
#1: She made some quite ridiculous twitter statements and I honestly wish more politicians would get the hell off that misinformed 140 character platform anyway. Another issue for another day.
#2: I think my major dislike of AOC began when she was heavily associated with the "squad". There's a particular member of the Squad who is somewhat anti-semintic (I probably misspelled that) that I very strongly dislike how she's conducted herself and frankly I wish they weren't so associated.
#3: I feel like at times she focuses, a little similar to Trump, to creating a hysteria, just in a different direction.

when I refer to antics, I do refer to some of her behavior in appearances or on twitter rants. One thing I prop her for is I really like her ideas for healthcare though and I wish some people would consider more related to it.

I hope in the future people with some of her ideas, but also a little less hysteria, can enter the ring. I feel like everyone's competing with Trump on the bullying and hysteria factor and its making keeping up with things really overwhelming in a lot of aspects.

 

[Red Memories]

I'm just curious what antics AOC has committed to make you despise her. You hate Nancy Pelosi, you despise AOC. You say Trump failed, but you don't mention hating or despising him. I'm just curious where this language comes from, as far as I know AOC has been a very effective rep for her district, which are the only people she should be answering to as far as job performance. Trump on the other hand has to answer to me, you and everyone else in the country.

I think if I went down a megalist, you'd find out I hate almost every active politician I am aware exists right now because, as I just mentioned to Isoprene, I feel everyone now is competing with Trump's level of bullshit and as far as I see it, they're all losing in my eyes because it doesn't make you any better to be as nasty as he is.

I did not vote for Trump. I did not feel morally right voting for Trump. I do not like Trump by any stretch. I was disgusted when I looked up his background and saw he supported stop and frisk. that was a huge thing that turned me off. There are a lot of reasons I could actively tell you right now above everything I wish Trump was not the President because all the coronavirus crisis has done is show me he is exactly as fucking ignorant as I think he was to begin with. When he was elected, I just went to my room. I didn't really want Clinton either, but I felt like we could repair whatever came from that. I'm not sure what the fuck you do with the mess created now. Let me put it this way: politically, I lack the ability to visualize how we're going to get better off from here. and in my own area it is hard to even suggest Trump is actually the piece of arrogant ignorant shit I actively think he is and really have felt he was. I see why the "Trumpian revolution" exists with the mess of shit. I wish there was something different that happened. and as a young person who my only election years have been this dick vs. an eh and now this dick vs. dick #2 I really just think this country is fucked.

 

[Jonny]

FYI...

https://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=6840714-Guidelines

Seems like some good guidelines here.

 

[ceecee]

Well I feel I should forewarn you: I do see myself as more democratic, but I do not see myself as a diehard progressive. There are certain things I will never agree with these people on, and that is okay. I actually admit when she was coming up, I was fond of her campaign videos because she seemed like someone who is actually aware of the struggles an every day person has which I feel like many politicians on both sides have lost sight of with all the lobbyists in their pockets.

My main AOC problems is
#1: She made some quite ridiculous twitter statements and I honestly wish more politicians would get the hell off that misinformed 140 character platform anyway. Another issue for another day.
#2: I think my major dislike of AOC began when she was heavily associated with the "squad". There's a particular member of the Squad who is somewhat anti-semintic (I probably misspelled that) that I very strongly dislike how she's conducted herself and frankly I wish they weren't so associated.
#3: I feel like at times she focuses, a little similar to Trump, to creating a hysteria, just in a different direction.

when I refer to antics, I do refer to some of her behavior in appearances or on twitter rants. One thing I prop her for is I really like her ideas for healthcare though and I wish some people would consider more related to it.

I hope in the future people with some of her ideas, but also a little less hysteria, can enter the ring. I feel like everyone's competing with Trump on the bullying and hysteria factor and its making keeping up with things really overwhelming in a lot of aspects.

Criticism of the Israeli government is not anti-Semitic. Criticism of the Israeli lobby in the US that works to keep the US funds coming, also not anti-Semitic. I want to put that out there because this is the shit that people who could otherwise give a fuck about Jewish people tend to start screaming about when they want to be critical of a lawmaker they don't like. I also generally see this from people that don't grasp what the US give this lobby or the Israeli government. Can't use the only democracy in the middle east argument anymore - Israel has become an apartheid state, I didn't support South Africa when they were, I don't support Israel for the identical reason.

I do find it pretty hypocritical that one complaint about AOC is her tweets though lol.

 

[Red Memories]

Criticism of the Israeli government is not anti-Semitic. Criticism of the Israeli lobby in the US that works to keep the US funds coming, also not anti-Semitic. I want to put that out there because this is the shit that people who could otherwise give a fuck about Jewish people tend to start screaming about when they want to be critical of a lawmaker they don't like. I also generally see this from people that don't grasp what the US give this lobby or the Israeli government. Can't use the only democracy in the middle east argument anymore - Israel has become an apartheid state, I didn't support South Africa when they were, I don't support Israel for the identical reason.

I do find it pretty hypocritical that one complaint about AOC is her tweets though lol.

I hate Trump's tweets too.

hence I said I wish more politicians would get off twitter but another argument for another day. I could make an entire anti-Trump website just of his tweets. As a teenager I had a twitter and frankly from the bullying and harassment just me alone experienced there, and the lack of IP banning (a user kept getting banned, coming back under new accounts and doing it again), and etc. I think twitter just brings out the absolute worst in most people. Solid reason I don't even have one anymore and have not considered returning to that hunk of misinformed mess that it is.

if you are willing I'd like some more information on the Israel information that you have. You tend to have a lot of unbias solid sources and when it comes to Israel news, I think it is hard to tell who is doing what over there. It seems like some neverending mini war between keeping the holy land and islam over there. I know little to nothing of this lobby you speak of. It is hard because I do think the islamics should be left alone but also I heard things of islamics desecrating religious things of the holy land for the Jews so I suppose it may be an issue of what side you see.

for the sake of thread stuff if you want to write me this somewhere else and just tag me I'll read it even in a PM.