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Why Naruto is ENFP instead of ESFP and Why we should AVOID internet random descriptions about ENFP x ESFP

victorcorcos

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I wanna say I think Naruto is ENFP instead of ESFP which means Ne dom instead of Se dom.

I can understand people are confusing Ne and Se because they are looking at online random descriptions of Ne and Se. However there are a lot of misconceptions online... On the original book Psychological Types created by Carl Jung we can see the clear difference between Ne and Se and I will make my argument based on the original text.

Ne and Se can look alike one another, because both of them are extraverted perception functions, so they love to interact with the external world, the world around them. Characteristics like impulsivity or reckless can be applied to both Ne and Se, both of them are avid explorers, be either of sensations (Se) or possibilities (Ne). That's why a lot of Ne doms usually are eneagrams 7, which constantly seek new experiences, challenges and can have problems with impatience and impulsiveness.

The main difference between Ne and Se is that:
1) Se looks at the external objects as what it is, concretely, realistically.
2) Ne looks at the external object as what it could be, as what it could become, expectancy, potentials, possibilities.

That main difference between Se and Ne makes Ne more Idealistic and Se more Realistic by consequence.
And before people start to say that “it is just a stereotype”, let’s take a look at what Carl Jung says in his original book: Psychological Types.

Extraverted Sensation) No other human type can equal the extraverted sensation type in realism.
~ Carl Jung

Extraverted Intuition) He actually has sensations, but he is not guided by them per se, merely using them as directing-points for his distant vision.
~ Carl Jung

ℹ️ The question is pretty simple: Is Naruto a Realist or he is a person that uses the world around him as directing-points for his distant vision?

The answer is pretty obvious if we look at this main difference between Se and Ne.

Naruto is not a Realist at all.
Naruto is all about believing in possibilities.

Why?

Because
1️⃣ Naruto believes the world will become better even with all of the quintessential war of nations that constantly happen.
2️⃣ Naruto believes potential cold-blooded murderers like Gaara, Pain, Obito, etc will change their behavior and stop to act so badly.
3️⃣ Naruto believes the war will stop to happen.
4️⃣ Naruto believes Sasuke will stop to be so cold and revengeful.
5️⃣ Naruto believes he will take out all the hate inside Kurama as well: “Some day I'll come after all the hate inside you as well ❤️
6️⃣ Naruto believes Sasuke will come back to Konoha
7️⃣ Naruto even believes he will change the Hyuuga clan to a better version.
8️⃣ And finally, Naruto believes he will become a Hokage

Like, come on, to name another example... When Naruto was questioned by Pain about how he would end the cycle of hatred, Naruto's answer was to simply ask him to believe in the fact that he'll find a way to bring true peace to the world. The history of shinobi shows that the peace they built rested on sacrifices, yet Naruto believed he would achieve peace with nothing more than words. Naruto is overly idealistic.

That’s why we love Naruto, right? He does not accept the world as it is by being a Realist. Naruto is the opposite, he believes in a world with better possibilities.

Naruto absolutely is not a realist (Se), he is a possibility-minded person (Ne) which turns him into that idealistic dreamer personality full of hope of a world better than it is now. What could be > What it is. This is the core of Naruto’s personality and can be shown from Classic to Shippuden!

Also, Carl Jung already explictly wrote what Se thinks about ideals related to ideas.

Extraverted Sensation) "His ideal is the actual¹; in this respect he is considerate. He has no ideals related to ideas"
~ Carl Jung, Psychological Types

actual¹: "existing in fact; typically as contrasted with what was intended, expected, or believed."
~ Oxford Languages

It speaks for itself...

How could we believe this is the dominating function for Uzumaki Naruto?
No ideals related to ideas?!

Also, some people argue all of this strong idealistic nature of Naruto comes from his Fi aux... well, that's not how Fi works. It is not the auxiliary Fi the one that makes Naruto idealistic in a way that make him believe in better possibilities. Yes, Fi has strong authentic opinions and believes in unconscious images, but they keep it for themselves in a silent and cold attitude and has no interest in influencing others regarding his beliefs, like Jung said 👇

Introverted Feeling) "They reveal a delightful repose, a sympathetic parallelism, which has no desire to affect others, either to impress, influence, or change them in any way.", "They neither shine nor reveal themselves. Since they submit the control of their lives to their subjectively orientated feeling", "They are mostly silent, inaccessible, and hard to understand"
~ Carl Jung, Psychological Types

It is the dominating Ne that makes the person keeps talking about his ideals, talking about better possibilities and inspiring others in believing in a world with better possibilities. It is the dominating Ne that irradiates the enthusiasm around better possibilities and influence others by the enthusiasm as a consequence. And this is not stereotype. It actually is totally aligned with Carl Jung’s description of Extraverted Intuition👇

Extraverted Intuition) His capacity to inspire his fellow-men with courage, or to kindle enthusiasm for something new, is unrivalled, although he may have forsworn it by the morrow. The more powerful and vivid his intuition, the more is his subject fused and blended with the divined possibility. He animates it; he presents it in plastic shape and with convincing fire; he almost embodies it. It is not a mere histrionic display, but a fate.
~ Carl Jung, Psychological Types

👆🏻This is totally Naruto when he starts to think in better possibilities like the 8 examples I showed above...
Naruto’s personality is grounded on this characteristic of Ne...

There are a lot of misconceptions online regarding ENFP x ESFP and regarding Ne x Se and I want to point what Carl Jung himself has to say about Ne and Se.

Cheers!
 
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Lady Lunacik

ESI-Se ♥ EVFL ♥ ISFP
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Messages
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There are some inconsistencies/issues in this, but I'm only seeing surface levels. I'd have to dig deeper to articulate anything worth reading.

Overall, though, I do commend the use of Jung's work and the fact that you're not just blindly following the nu-MBTI crowds.

I have no feedback about Naruto's type, but there's a problem with the definition of Ne/Se here. It's a bit overly vague and gives misleading impressions to some extent, by not specifying ways in which these things manifest. As-is currently, when you ask, "what is creativity?" these definitions would have you thinking only Ne types are creative. Both S/N types can be/are creative, though.

When Jung mentions possibilities there, what he is talking about is the ability to size up potential, basically. That is what he means by "divined possibility." Idealism is basically the opposite of good Ne when it is unrealistic, as it is an unrealistic estimation of the possibility the object can reach. However, since all of those things were implemented, it can be argued that Naruto was not idealistic at all. In the real world, he would be, but this world is imaginary. This is why it's complicated, because he isn't a real person.

You may like Socionics. It's more true to Jung than MBTI.
 
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Vendrah

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I agree there might be some problems of interpretations as said above, but Jung writing can be too vague so the problem is not the OP. I have to remember that Jung did considered both Ne and Se the most empirical types, so basically Ne is empirical as well.

This idea of "we should avoid online descriptions" is only for online right? Any typology seems unthinkable without descriptions.
 

victorcorcos

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There are some inconsistencies/issues in this, but I'm only seeing surface levels. I'd have to dig deeper to articulate anything worth reading.

Overall, though, I do commend the use of Jung's work and the fact that you're not just blindly following the nu-MBTI crowds.

I have no feedback about Naruto's type, but there's a problem with the definition of Ne/Se here. It's a bit overly vague and gives misleading impressions to some extent, by not specifying ways in which these things manifest. As-is currently, when you ask, "what is creativity?" these definitions would have you thinking only Ne types are creative. Both S/N types can be/are creative, though.

When Jung mentions possibilities there, what he is talking about is the ability to size up potential, basically. That is what he means by "divined possibility." Idealism is basically the opposite of good Ne when it is unrealistic, as it is an unrealistic estimation of the possibility the object can reach. However, since all of those things were implemented, it can be argued that Naruto was not idealistic at all. In the real world, he would be, but this world is imaginary. This is why it's complicated, because he isn't a real person.

You may like Socionics. It's more true to Jung than MBTI.

What do you mean the definition of Ne/Se are overly vague that can lead to misleading impressions?

That's not my intention at all!
I'm giving light to the root difference between Ne and Se exactly to avoid misleading impressions. :x

Ne looks at what the external object could be, might be. It is more about possibilities, expectancy and potentials;
Se looks at what the external object is. It is more about being concrete, grounded and realistic.

I prefer to avoid talking about creativity and just focus on this main difference.

> "Idealism is basically the opposite of good Ne when it is unrealistic, as it is an unrealistic estimation of the possibility the object can reach."
Very interesting opinion and I agree it is opposite of "good Ne". However, I think being overly unrealistic about the things is still Ne, just a "bad Ne", but still Ne over Se. Why? Because we are still shaping the external object to an expectancy, a potential (although unreal for example).

The Se, on the other hand, is the opposite. Se does not focus on shaping the external object to what it could be or might be, Se accepts the object as it's own end and wants to sense the strongest sensation over it, realistically, without thinking in what "it could be".

Extraverted Sensation) "When he 'senses', everything essential has been said and done. Nothing can be more than concrete and actual; conjectures that transcend or go beyond the concrete are only permitted on condition that they enhance sensation."
~ Carl Jung, Psychological Types

I am comparing Ne and Se because Naruto's personality is being discussed all over the internet between Ne dom and Se dom (ENFP x ESFP).

~~~

Thanks for the hint about Socionics ;)
I took a read on it a lot of times but I can't discover my Socionics 😭
I think I'm IEE, but my friends thinks I'm either EII, ESE, IEE or SEE, lol :p
 
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victorcorcos

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I agree there might be some problems of interpretations as said above, but Jung writing can be too vague so the problem is not the OP. I have to remember that Jung did considered both Ne and Se the most empirical types, so basically Ne is empirical as well.

This idea of "we should avoid online descriptions" is only for online right? Any typology seems unthinkable without descriptions.

Yeah, when I wrote "we should avoid online descriptions" I was referring about random online sources :) (nu-MBTI crowds)... There are a lot of misconceptions on random online sources that are really against the original work. So I prefer to check what Carl Jung himself says about Extraverted Intuition and Extraverted Sensation.
 
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Lady Lunacik

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Thanks for the hint about Socionics ;)
I took a read on it more than 2 times but I can't discover my Socionics 😭
I'm relaxing and working online atm, I'll respond to the rest tomorrow if I can remember...but check out http://en.socionicasys.org/

It's best if you understand the system itself before trying to type yourself, as the description based typing method is pretty much a Forer/Barnum Effect. Typing is easier once you understand the structure of the system.

Also important, while there are similarities in the "functions" (in Socionics they are referred to as Information Metabolism Elements), there are some major differences also. Ne is the most similar, while Se/Si are most likely the ones with the greatest differences between one system and the next. So, don't make the mistake of thinking you know already from reading Jung's work. The reason for all of this is that Socionics combines Jungs work with Antoni Kępiński's work on Information Metabolism theory. Personally, as an S type with issues pertaining to maladaptive daydreaming and Inattentive ADHD (formerly ADD - the type where you are too inside your mind, basically) I find these S things much more relatable than the exclusively Jung versions. I think Socionics does S types more justice than MBTI, and especially nu-MBTI, which makes us sound like mindless apes who use our 5 senses.

Also worth noting, I might be one of the worst people for commenting on Ne, lmaoo. Ne is a point of weakness for me, so I probably don't have a firm grasp on it except from the perspective of someone who is weak at it.
 

victorcorcos

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I'm relaxing and working online atm, I'll respond to the rest tomorrow if I can remember...but check out http://en.socionicasys.org/

It's best if you understand the system itself before trying to type yourself, as the description based typing method is pretty much a Forer/Barnum Effect. Typing is easier once you understand the structure of the system.

Also important, while there are similarities in the "functions" (in Socionics they are referred to as Information Metabolism Elements), there are some major differences also. Ne is the most similar, while Se/Si are most likely the ones with the greatest differences between one system and the next. So, don't make the mistake of thinking you know already from reading Jung's work. The reason for all of this is that Socionics combines Jungs work with Antoni Kępiński's work on Information Metabolism theory. Personally, as an S type with issues pertaining to maladaptive daydreaming and Inattentive ADHD (formerly ADD - the type where you are too inside your mind, basically) I find these S things much more relatable than the exclusively Jung versions. I think Socionics does S types more justice than MBTI, and especially nu-MBTI, which makes us sound like mindless apes who use our 5 senses.

Also worth noting, I might be one of the worst people for commenting on Ne, lmaoo. Ne is a point of weakness for me, so I probably don't have a firm grasp on it except from the perspective of someone who is weak at it.

Thank you for the very nice introduction to Socionics! :) Inspired me.
 

Oaky

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Long read but I've my opinions and I agree with the OP. MBTI-wise (NOT Socionics) I typed Naruto about 13 years ago as an ENFP, and I rewatched Naruto about twice since then. He remains an ENFP and certainly not an ESFP. Quite frankly, his Se sucks but for the reasons OP mentioned, Ne remains as the most likely dominant function he holds. Other than that, the whole show is essentially an Fi-fest in itself too... Bit of an Ne-Fi hearted show.
 

Indigo Rodent

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If he's not an ESFP because he has Ne, then he's an ESTJ. Let's remember he's a ninja. His life is intensely physical, his worldview is a flavouring.
 

victorcorcos

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If he's not an ESFP because he has Ne, then he's an ESTJ. Let's remember he's a ninja. His life is intensely physical, his worldview is a flavouring.

Yes, everybody from Naruto is a ninja, so they are naturally inclined to "use Se" anyways.
However, the thing that people often forget is that Se is not just about being physical, Se is MUCH more than that.

According to Carl Jung (Psychological Types)...

Se focuses on what things are.
Ne focuses on what things could be.

And one thing that I don’t see anyone arguing about Ne and Se is how they encare the reality.
Jung described on his book how Ne and Se doms are related to reality and it was actually very clear there!

• Extraverted Sensation Type 🔥)
1️⃣ "No other human type can equal the extraverted sensation-type in realism."
2️⃣ "Hence, the orientation of such an individual corresponds with purely concrete reality. The judging, rational functions are subordinated to the concrete facts of sensation"
3️⃣ "Tangible reality, under any conditions, makes him breathe again. In this respect he is unexpectedly credulous"
4️⃣ "In so far as he is normal, he is conspicuously adjusted to positive reality -- conspicuously, because his adjustment is always visible. His ideal is the actual; in this respect he is considerate. He has no ideals related to ideas -- he has, therefore, no sort of ground for maintaining a hostile attitude towards the reality of things and facts."
5️⃣ "Upon the lower levels this is the man of tangible reality"

• Extraverted Intuitive Type 💨)
1️⃣ “The intuitive is never to be found among the generally recognized reality values, but he is always present where possibilities exist.”
2️⃣ "His conscious attitude, both to the sensation and the sensed object, is one of sovereign superiority and disregard. Not that he means to be inconsiderate or superior -- he simply does not see the object that everyone else sees"
3️⃣ "In a very short time every actual situation becomes a prison to the intuitive; it burdens him like a chain, prompting a compelling need for solution."
~ Carl Jung, Psychological Types

👆🏻I believe this should be considered as a predominant factor do differentiate Ne doms and Se doms, because they are total opposite in how they encare the reality.
The difference is very clear (and opposite) by definition.
 
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Indigo Rodent

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Yes, everybody from Naruto is a ninja, so they are naturally inclined to "use Se" anyways.
However, the thing that people often forget is that Se is not just about being physical, Se is MUCH more than that.

According to Carl Jung (Psychological Types)...

Se focuses on what things are.
Ne focuses on what things could be.

And one thing that I don’t see anyone arguing about Ne and Se is how they encare the reality.
Jung described on his book how Ne and Se doms are related to reality and it was actually very clear there!

• Extraverted Sensation Type 🔥)
1️⃣ "No other human type can equal the extraverted sensation-type in realism."
2️⃣ "Hence, the orientation of such an individual corresponds with purely concrete reality. The judging, rational functions are subordinated to the concrete facts of sensation"
3️⃣ "Tangible reality, under any conditions, makes him breathe again. In this respect he is unexpectedly credulous"
4️⃣ "In so far as he is normal, he is conspicuously adjusted to positive reality -- conspicuously, because his adjustment is always visible. His ideal is the actual; in this respect he is considerate. He has no ideals related to ideas -- he has, therefore, no sort of ground for maintaining a hostile attitude towards the reality of things and facts."
5️⃣ "Upon the lower levels this is the man of tangible reality"

• Extraverted Intuitive Type 💨)
1️⃣ “The intuitive is never to be found among the generally recognized reality values, but he is always present where possibilities exist.”
2️⃣ "His conscious attitude, both to the sensation and the sensed object, is one of sovereign superiority and disregard. Not that he means to be inconsiderate or superior -- he simply does not see the object that everyone else sees"
3️⃣ "In a very short time every actual situation becomes a prison to the intuitive; it burdens him like a chain, prompting a compelling need for solution."
~ Carl Jung, Psychological Types

👆🏻I believe this should be considered as a predominant factor do differentiate Ne doms and Se doms, because they are total opposite in how they encare the reality.
The difference is very clear (and opposite) by definition.
It's not just Se types. Professional martial arts include a ton of ESTJs. He's martial artist first, his views and sentiments are just a flavouring that can be easily handled by tertiary and inferior.
 

victorcorcos

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> It's not just Se types. Professional martial arts include a ton of ESTJs.

Yeah, I didn't talk Professional martial arts does not include ESTJs. I'm just saying that a Shonen Anime about fights with ninja will make everyone look like Se doms, even when their personality is not inclined to the jungian definition of Se, which is to focus on what the objects are instead of what the objects could be.


> his views and sentiments are just a flavouring that can be easily handled by tertiary and inferior.

I agree with tertiary function flavouring the personality, because it is being relatively used, but the inferior function does not "flavours", it is actually the opposite!
The inferior function is being repressed, it is inside the stack to show it is hugely repressed by the dominant function as opposite functions that they are.
It is more likely to show how we struggle with the inferior function than showing it's powerness, influence or flavouring.
 

Indigo Rodent

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> his views and sentiments are just a flavouring that can be easily handled by tertiary and inferior.

I agree with tertiary function flavouring the personality, because it is being relatively used, but the inferior function does not "flavours", it is actually the opposite!
The inferior function is being repressed, it is inside the stack to show it is hugely repressed by the dominant function as opposite functions that they are.
It is more likely to show how we struggle with the inferior function than showing it's powerness, influence or flavouring.
Only if someone is one-sided. For a decently well-rounded person, the inferior function is just tiring to use.
 

victorcorcos

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Only if someone is one-sided. For a decently well-rounded person, the inferior function is just tiring to use.

It's actually rare people who does not face issues with the inferior functions. People like that can exist, but that's not what happens usually.
Sad, but it's the truth.

Usually what happen is what Carl Jung has described on his work, Psychological Types
~ http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Jung/types.htm

Anyways, everything depends on yourself. You can face the inferior function as aspirational for the development of your personality instead of just avoiding using it (for example).

😊

Because we tend to develop our functions in the same order they are on the stack as we mature ourselves! We can just know the truth and use it in our favor. That's what I do.
 
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Lady Lunacik

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1 episode refresher in, Naruto is SEE as hell. Dribbling with Se. Dribbling with Fi, too. No wonder I have always related to him, since I am Fi Se. (ESI-Se)
 
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