Video: ENFPs lie

[highlander]

• ENFP talks about how they lie and deceive others

 

[Smilephantomhive]

I thought this was going to be edgy, but I was pleasantly surprised.

 

[Merced]

The point about deception was really accurate. I like to have the illusion of being an open book, but I'm realizing I'm a very secretive person. Especially in regards to my past experiences. Good video.

([MENTION=27162]Cloudpatrol[/MENTION] because they were interested in the concept of honesty and lies.)

 

[FemMecha]

Oh, okay. He is describing a higher standard of truth telling than a lot of people even care about, so it makes more sense to me. I've thought ENFPs and ESFPs are some of the more transparent, authentic people who don't say the opposite of what they mean like a lot of people. At least the ones I've encountered are very genuine.

 

[PeaceBaby]

Yes, I can relate to this too. A lie of omission is still a lie. I suppose someone thought of that when they made up the legal swearing in to be "Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?"

There are also social lies I tell and since I know I'm not really telling the truth, am disturbed by that. I know intellectually that they have a purpose, and even agree with their utility, but inside I know that they're not really what I think and that a part of me feels some betrayal, almost.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

A lie of omission is still a lie. I suppose someone thought of that when they made up the legal swearing in to be "Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?"

No it's not.

 

[FemMecha]

Here's a question about lying by omission.
What if something really horrible happened to you or a loved one, you feel incapacitated by it, you need the day off work to address the issue. If you tell your employer everything, then you are betraying the confidence of someone you love. I tend to feel it is okay to omit information when the person to whom I am conveying some information is not entitled to know all of it. I don't think everyone is entitled to know everything all the time.

Lying by omission is a problem when the other person is entitled to know the whole truth. If someone has been having lunch dates with an ex, but omits that information to their spouse because the spouse will be hurt by it or ask them to stop, then that is quite different from the first scenario.

I think the level of intimacy shared by the different people involved with the information is an important factor. In the first case, the employer does not have an intimate trusted relationship, but the harmed friend does. In the second scenario the spouse is the intimate partner and the ex is the more superficial friend by comparison. I think we owe more complete truth to the people with whom we share more intimate bonds, but the less personal connection that exists, the less entitled the person is to the whole truth. What do you think?

 

[Poki]

Didnt listen, but from my experience...enfps lie to themselves which causes them to "lie" to others.

 

[Yuurei]

Here's a question about lying by omission.
What if something really horrible happened to you or a loved one, you feel incapacitated by it, you need the day off work to address the issue. If you tell your employer everything, then you are betraying the confidence of someone you love. I tend to feel it is okay to omit information when the person to whom I am conveying some information is not entitled to know all of it. I don't think everyone is entitled to know everything all the time.

Lying by omission is a problem when the other person is entitled to know the whole truth. If someone has been having lunch dates with an ex, but omits that information to their spouse because the spouse will be hurt by it or ask them to stop, then that is quite different from the first scenario.

I think the level of intimacy shared by the different people involved with the information is an important factor. In the first case, the employer does not have an intimate trusted relationship, but the harmed friend does. In the second scenario the spouse is the intimate partner and the ex is the more superficial friend by comparison. I think we owe more complete truth to the people with whom we share more intimate bonds, but the less personal connection that exists, the less entitled the person is to the whole truth. What do you think?

A lie of omission is when you go to buy a house, you ask if it has any problems and the seller tells you " Oh yeah the house is fine." neglecting to tell you that the garage is a death trap due to faulty wiring.

I was going to elaborate but you pretty much covered it. People often accuse me of being "vague" when I talk about my personal life in everyday conversation. In that context, I don't understand why I have to explain to them that yes I am because I do not want them to know and I am under no obligation to tell them.

 

[Starry]

My whole life I have always gotten in trouble for not lying and withholding the truth. I've had friends and family beg me "you need to learn how to lie." <-Under certain conditions though I'm a highly effective liar. I'm really, really good at lying to authority figures I have no respect for if I feel it is good/right or I'm protecting someone I know to be good/right...if it's a one time gig (like I don't have to continue lying over a period of time and by that I mean...remember what I have said.) Anything outside of that will cause me physical aches and pains...I'll feel creepy about it if I do. But even without those physical aliments...I just don't see the point. I only want to be loved and/or rejected for me. I just think if I'm lying I'm going to be attracting and repelling the wrong people.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Didnt listen, but from my experience...enfps lie to themselves which causes them to "lie" to others.

I am with Poki on this one.

 

[Dreamer]

My whole life I have always gotten in trouble for not lying and withholding the truth. I've had friends and family beg me "you need to learn how to lie." <-Under certain conditions though I'm a highly effective liar. I'm really, really good at lying to authority figures I have no respect for if I feel it is good/right or I'm protecting someone I know to be good/right...if it's a one time gig (like I don't have to continue lying over a period of time and by that I mean...remember what I have said.) Anything outside of that will cause me physical aches and pains...I'll feel creepy about it if I do. But even without those physical aliments...I just don't see the point. I only want to be loved and/or rejected for me. I just think if I'm lying I'm going to be attracting and repelling the wrong people.

That's basically been my motto once I started accepting myself for who I am. Basically once I entered college and "found myself" But actually, I sorta did, as cliche as it is. But totally, I don't see the point in putting on some facade, some lie to yourself and others, just be who you are, and people will respect that honesty. I know I do when I come across it.

I think for me, lying is done when it's sort of an "act" for me. It can be kind of a game to me to see the other person's reactions while I say it with a straight face. But I typically end up coming clean or end it with a "just kidding". To lie and maintain that lie feels so gross. Not because I'm upholding some moral standard for myself, but I just don't see the point.

 

[Starry]

That's basically been my motto once I started accepting myself for who I am. Basically once I entered college and "found myself" But actually, I sorta did, as cliche as it is. But totally, I don't see the point in putting on some facade, some lie to yourself and others, just be who you are, and people will respect that honesty. I know I do when I come across it.

I think for me, lying is done when it's sort of an "act" for me. It can be kind of a game to me to see the other person's reactions while I say it with a straight face. But I typically end up coming clean or end it with a "just kidding". To lie and maintain that lie feels so gross. Not because I'm upholding some moral standard for myself, but I just don't see the point.

I'm so glad you wrote that because it sums up an aspect of what I was trying to express way better. Whether it ends up taking on this form...ENFPs sorta come wired to care about the wellbeing of others. And then there's Fi which almost seems like it has earned a reputation for being the 'George Washington cherry tree "I cannot tell a lie even if the good lord himself came down from heaven and asked me to do it" function.'

You and I care about people and have a desire to do what's right but still...there are so many very practical, entirely selfish reasons people choose not to lie...so thank you for this!

 

[Starry]

I am with Poki on this one.

Whoops...I saw this earlier and forgot to acknowledge it by saying I'm inclined to agree and have even said on more than one occasion..."If I'm lying...it would merely be a byproduct of the fact I am lying to myself."

I'm drawing a blank on how common it is for ENFPs to physically experience Fi's will (common enough for me to have read about it and the experience a decent amount of times.) Like, I referred to this in my post above...if I lie...even before that lie has been told in its entirety I will start to experience negative physical sensations that will turn into physical aches, pains and nausea until I either correct that with the person I've said it to...or I have to go through a full assessment of what I've done and why and determine what potential damage can that lie do and if I make a determination it was ultimately harmless then I have to start the process of comforting myself by breaking into the whole "you're only human" bullshit...and then the physical symptoms will start to subside. <-Y U so scary Fi? Well, if I didn't have this emergency alert system for the times I start to stray from truth and reason...that operates on the emo/physical and not just the mental...there would be nothing to stop Ne's runaway train of "Anything and everything is possible!"

^^What I'm describing may not make sense to you idk...but it is very real all the same. To this day it is easy for me to misrepresent myself in highly social situations where I'm meeting new people because I will be distracted by what is usually some sort of celebratory event and making sure I am gracious and people feel good after interacting with me. What's funny to me is my personal Fi system is still just as hardcore...like I'll be getting the emergency alerts and creeping out on myself for something like..."I can't believe I agreed with that person I'll never see again that fettuccine is the best noodle for sauce when I actually think it's linguine." <-But I'm still grateful for it because it keeps me honest and allows me to know myself and know what is real in spite of Ne.

 

[Qlip]

I watched about half the vid, it sounds more like e7 style avoidance of discomfort.

 

[Avocado]

Whoops...I saw this earlier and forgot to acknowledge it by saying I'm inclined to agree and have even said on more than one occasion..."If I'm lying...it would merely be a byproduct of the fact I am lying to myself."

I'm drawing a blank on how common it is for ENFPs to physically experience Fi's will. Like, I referred to this in my post above...if I lie...even before that lie has been told in its entirety I will start to experience negative physical sensations that will turn into physical aches, pains and nausea until I either correct that with the person I've said it to...or I have to go through a full assessment of what I've done and why and determine what potential damage can that lie do and if I make a determination it was ultimately harmless then I have to start the process of comforting myself by breaking into the whole "you're only human" bullshit...and then the physical symptoms will start to subside. <-Y U so scary Fi? Well, if I didn't have this emergency alert system for the times I start to stray from truth and reason...that operates on the emo/physical and not just the mental...there would be nothing to stop Ne's runaway train of "Anything and everything is possible!"

^^What I'm describing may not make sense to you idk...but it is very real all the same. To this day it is easy for me to misrepresent myself in highly social situations where I'm meeting new people because I will be distracted by what is usually some sort of celebratory event and making sure I am gracious and people feel good after interacting with me. What's funny to me is my personal Fi system is still just as hardcore...like I'll be getting the emergency alerts and creeping out on myself for something like..."I can't believe I agreed with that person I'll never see again that fettuccine is the best noodle for sauce when I actually think it's linguine." <-But I'm still grateful for it because it keeps me honest and allows me to know myself and know what is real in spite of Ne.

That was more me as a young kid. Nowadays, I realize truth is so relative it isn't even a consideration anymore. All that matters is getting what I need, and screw everybody and anybody who gets in my way.

 

[Starry]

That was more me as a young kid. Nowadays, I realize truth is so relative it isn't even a consideration anymore. All that matters is getting what I need, and screw everybody and anybody who gets in my way.

First of all...I'm just happy someone understood what I wrote.

In response to what you're saying though in case there's any confusion based on what I know of your personal history... What I'm describing are the lengths Fi will apparently go to in order to hold you accountable to where you've set your intent. What I'm not saying is my intent is based on what is morally righteous. To the contrary, while there is a moral component in there for me...for the most part I believe it could be argued that what I'm doing is just as self-serving as what you describe.

 

[Starry]

I watched about half the vid, it sounds more like e7 style avoidance of discomfort.

I think there's truth in this...but if so it needs to be stated that discomfort will be defined differently for each 7 and not every 7 will experience discomfort at the prospect of disappointing someone with the truth. I don't want to see ENFPs from other etypes escape discomfort by passing this off on the 7s

I've wondered what role the social variant plays...but like Poki has suggested...I think a lot of ENFPs...especially when young can lie without even knowing or intending to do so due to the nature of Ne.

 

[Qlip]

I think there's truth in this...but if so it needs to be stated that discomfort will be defined differently for each 7 and not every 7 will experience discomfort at the prospect of disappointing someone with the truth. I don't want to see ENFPs from other etypes escape discomfort by passing this off on the 7s

I've wondered what role the social variant plays...but like Poki has suggested...I think a lot of ENFPs...especially when young can lie without even knowing or intending to do so due to the nature of Ne.

Actually, I find what Poki suggested to be pretty unhelpful. He said something along the lines of finding that ENFPs lie because they've lied to themselves, which to me is almost akin to saying that we're pretty damned honest, but often mistaken. I would have to assume that an ENFP lying to one's self is to let hope and ideals overcome our practical knowledge. To a Ne-dom there's a lot of grey area between those things. But from my point of view that's not really lying, just not understanding a situation accurately. Every type has those blind spots, perhaps in their own ways, e.g., to be a typist, some ISTP doesn't understand how to factor feelings into a situation, an ISTJ doesn't realize there are options other than they have seen.

To me a lie isn't misrepresenting the truth, but misrepresenting our understanding of truth. Objective truth is something no type has a claim on.

 

[Starry]

Actually, I find what Poki suggested to be pretty unhelpful. He said something along the lines of finding that ENFPs lie because they've lied to themselves, which to me is almost akin to saying that we're pretty damned honest, but often mistaken. I would have to assume that an ENFP lying to one's self is to let hope and ideals overcome our practical knowledge. To a Ne-dom there's a lot of grey area between those things. But from my point of view that's not really lying, just not understanding a situation accurately. Every type has those blind spots, perhaps in their own ways, e.g., to be a typist, some ISTP doesn't understand how to factor feelings into a situation, an ISTJ doesn't realize there are options other than they have seen.

To me a lie isn't misrepresenting the truth, but misrepresenting our understanding of truth. Objective truth is something no type has a claim on.

I keep getting interrupted and can't write the response that I want to for this but "Yes" I wholeheartedly agree. Having recently participated in a thread however where various ENFP behaviors and actions were being ascribed all kinds of negative meaning and intent...as I sit here now I can tell that I am at a complete loss concerning how to explain ENFP in instances where the social-cultural structures give the individual I'm attempting to explain things to an advantage or they have the luxury of being able to take things/meaning for granted in that specific regard (and it could be argued that for certain types like ENFP perhaps there are more of these kinds of instances...which may in turn make it more likely that we more readily grasp what you presented.)

I will tell you that I read Poki's quote inside of Virtual Ghost's post and thought he had scare quotes around the word lie twice...not just the second time he used the word but the first as well...which gave me/the reader more room for subjective interpretation in my mind. But even if I saw the sentence structure correctly...I see more forgiveness in this description than is usually extended to us and tried to see if I could account for what he sees. But I'm starting to think it's fuckin impossible haha.

ENFP