Trump vs. Bernie

[Tellenbach]

Bernie mentioned Denmark in last night's debate. Denmark is pretty much 100% white and has less people than NYC. He's comparing apples to oranges. Socialism isn't a complete disaster when the population is isolated and homogeneous because everyone knows everyone else, so the incentive to steal and cheat is less because you're stealing from people you know. This was proven in a nut sharing study with squirrels. In every other place, socialism is a massive failure.

The reason why urban centers are rife with crime is because of Democrat policies like high taxes, over-regulation, and the minimum wage. All of these progressive policies reduce opportunities because they take resources away from business owners.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Ruy Teixeira: Beware Bernie's promised voter turnout | Columnists | wacotrib.com

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Bernie mentioned Denmark in last night's debate. Denmark is pretty much 100% white and has less people than NYC. He's comparing apples to oranges. Socialism isn't a complete disaster when the population is isolated and homogeneous because everyone knows everyone else, so the incentive to steal and cheat is less because you're stealing from people you know. This was proven in a nut sharing study with squirrels. In every other place, socialism is a massive failure.

This is new. Bernie's not electable because of the way squirrels share nuts. Thanks. I needed the laugh.

Did you hear about the study that beavers sometimes die when they gnaw on trees to build their lodges because the tree falls on them? This proves Trump will be a one term President. Trump is like that bushy little beaver.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Did you know that without sea otters, sea urchins would grow out of control and destroy kelp forests? This proves that Bernie will win the general because he's the sea otter and Trump is the sea urchin. Kelp always votes for sea otters.

Bloomberg is more like an octopus, which everyone knows kelp hates.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Are there any details on what should be Bernie's foreign policy ? Ending the wars in kinda simplistic.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Are there any details on what should be Bernie's foreign policy ? Ending the wars in kinda simplistic.

Wikipedia goes pretty in depth on this

Israel, balkans, UN views etc etc

 

[Virtual ghost]

Wikipedia goes pretty in depth on this

Israel, balkans, UN views etc etc

That seem to be more about what he has done than what he will do. Although this probably paints the realistic picture of what to expect.

 

[ceecee]

Are there any details on what should be Bernie's foreign policy ? Ending the wars in kinda simplistic.

What are you looking for? Simply being a sane person working with the rest of the world is probably a good start. But how specific do you want someone who isn't even a nominee to be?

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

That seem to be more about what he has done than what he will do. Although this probably paints the realistic picture of what to expect.

there you go

 

[Virtual ghost]

What are you looking for? Simply being a sane person working with the rest of the world is probably a good start. But how specific do you want someone who isn't even a nominee to be?

In my book Bernie and his campaign are about internal issues of US. That is why I am curious about what can be expected on the outside.


I mean in my country official political campaigns last about a month and people says some things about their foreign policy positions early in the process. While this primary is going on for almost a year and therefore for me this is all one big "deficit of information". No insult intended.

 

[Jaguar]

Are there any details on what should be Bernie's foreign policy? Ending the wars in kinda simplistic.

Oversimplification is his specialty.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Oversimplification is his specialty.

Perhaps but to be honest I didn't hear from other candidates anything too specific either. Ok, 2020 is about internal issues of USA but foreign policy is absolutely massive factor in what will be possible to do over the next few years (especially due to outsourced manufacturing/production). While the debate is pretty much on the level "If we get rid on Trump, we win". However the fact is that liberal world order from before 10 or 20 years ago simply doesn't exist anymore. Western Europe and few scattered democratic nations are entrenched and they are trying to hold, but besides that everything else is pretty much: Oligarchy, declining democracy, religious fanaticism, Communism, refugees, mass protests, drug cartels, hunger, war zones ... etc.



To me these primaries simply look as a band of buddies that have decided to go sailing and now they debate: what they will wear, what they will eat, how they will charge their phones ... but they didn't check the weather report. What means that all those good wishes could be moot point after November, even if they take the WH. Right now the logic is that politicians at UN laugh at Trump because he is an idiot. But what will you do if they start to laugh at Pete due to his sexuality, or at Biden due to gaffes, Ukraine or his economic views, or at Bernie's "idealism". Today the world is run mostly by authoritarian mafia that wants to end democracy because it is getting in the way. While very good chunk of people doesn't really recognize the internal American divisions, for them you are all just America. I simply have the impression that too many things are taken for granted here.



I know this is grim but it is worth of at least having a second though on the issue. The world has really changed lately.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Perhaps but to be honest I didn't hear from other candidates anything too specific either. Ok, 2020 is about internal issues of USA but foreign policy is absolutely massive factor in what will be possible to do over the next few years (especially due to outsourced manufacturing/production). While the debate is pretty much on the level "If we get rid on Trump, we win". However the fact is that liberal world order from before 10 or 20 years ago simply doesn't exist anymore. Western Europe and few scattered democratic nations are entrenched and they are trying to hold, but besides that everything else is pretty much: Oligarchy, declining democracy, religious fanaticism, Communism, refugees, mass protests, drug cartels, hunger, war zones ... etc.



To me these primaries simply look as a band of buddies that have decided to go sailing and now they debate: what they will wear, what they will eat, how they will charge their phones ... but they didn't check the weather report. What means that all those good wishes could be moot point after November, even if they take the WH. Right now the logic is that politicians at UN laugh at Trump because he is an idiot. But what will you do if they start to laugh at Pete due to his sexuality, or at Biden due to gaffes, Ukraine or his economic views, or at Bernie's "idealism". Today the world is run mostly by authoritarian mafia that wants to end democracy because it is getting in the way. While very good chunk of people doesn't really recognize the internal American divisions, for them you are all just America. I simply have the impression that too many things are taken for granted here.



I know this is grim but it is worth of at least having a second though on the issue. The world has really changed lately.

restore norms. america greater thsn russian bear!

 

[Virtual ghost]

restore norms. america greater thsn russian bear!

If we judge by my part of the world this is under very big question.


Our new socialist president just placed anti LGBT person for his education advisor. What got open approval of far right. (plus Russians announced they are coming for a chat soon)

Our first Chinese 5G network just came online, Chinese ambassador was at the opening.

Main energy supplier will remain Russia. While very pro-russian territory that borders my country plans to declare independence with Russian help as we speak.

On the local forums you can find openly pro-russian people. Nicks like "Always East".



(and this is a NATO country, so imagine how it is in many places outside of that bubble)





I made that post for a reason.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

If we judge by my part of the world this is under very big question.


Our new socialist president just placed anti LGBT person for his education advisor. What got open approval of far right. (plus Russians announced they are coming for a chat soon)

Our first Chinese 5G network just came online, Chinese ambassador was at the opening.

Main energy supplier will remain Russia. While very pro-russian territory that borders my country plans to declare independence with Russian help as we speak.

On the local forums you can find openly pro-russian people. Nicks like "Always East".



(and this is a NATO country, so imagine how it is in many places outside of that bubble)





I made that post for a reason.

america great if america folllow norms bolmberg 2020!

 

[Jaguar]

I didn't hear from other candidates anything too specific either.

Move to the USA so you can listen to what is coming out of their mouths like I can.

2020 is about internal issues of USA

To morons, sure.

but foreign policy is absolutely massive factor in what will be possible to do over the next few years (especially due to outsourced manufacturing/production).

Tell that to the BBABs. (Bernie Bros and Bitches.) You're outside the USA, so they won't vandalize your house.

Right now the logic is that politicians at UN laugh at Trump because he is an idiot.

No shocker there.

But what will you do if they start to laugh at Pete due to his sexuality

Or his eye color. *gasps*

The world has really changed lately.

Really? Gee.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Ruy Teixeira: Beware Bernie's promised voter turnout | Columnists | wacotrib.com

Final totals aren't in as far as I can tell, but apparently early voting alone was almost as high as 2016 in Nevada. That's not a general of course, but it suggests that Sanders may indeed be on to something.

The 2020 Nevada caucuses are on track to break a voter turnout record thanks to early voting - Vox

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Final totals aren't in as far as I can tell, but apparently early voting alone was almost as high as 2016 in Nevada. That's not a general of course, but it suggests that Sanders may indeed be on to something.

The 2020 Nevada caucuses are on track to break a voter turnout record thanks to early voting - Vox

If he gets just the same as last time, considering the massive time developing a huge pro-Sanders organization, it really isn't very good.

He needs to the majority of delegates for the 1st ballot. With strong opposition, this will remain a challenge.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

If he gets just the same as last time, considering the massive time developing a huge pro-Sanders organization, it really isn't very good.

He needs to the majority of delegates for the 1st ballot. With strong opposition, this will remain a challenge.

I think it's doable.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I was thinking what to reply to this, so here is goes ....

Move to the USA so you can listen to what is coming out of their mouths like I can.

As I told you before we live in the age of internet and digital media, what allows me to watch your debates, your online newspapers, MSNBC ... etc. I can't go personally to a rally but I can in general see pretty much everything relevant. However from what I have seen none of the candidates made too detailed "proposition" regarding the foreign policy. Maybe there are some documents that aren't too exposed in the media but what is out there is all pretty light on details. (in my book)

Tell that to the BBABs. (Bernie Bros and Bitches.) You're outside the USA, so they won't vandalize your house.

As I said before "I am from the country where right wing is often to the left of Bernie". Therefore for me all of this is nothing new and for that reason I think you will be just fine (and I really mean it).



My country has socialized medicine, "free" college, and many other extremist programs by US standards. However regardless of that we still have rich people, out of which some are absurdly rich next to common people. To the point that their business empires are visible on the GDP map of the country. Therefore in my book there really is no reason for general panic. What Bernie is saying in my book is nothing more than populist rhetoric to fire up the base and get media coverage. However I am not getting impression that something really bad will happen to the rich (call that a personal opinion). In my book Bernie bros are pretty mild left and they wouldn't change the nature of the country too much, as they will just fix a few important things.



The only place where you can see something more radically left is in the domain of healthcare. However I think that USA would really benefit from introducing socialized or at least affordable healthcare. Many would calm down because right now life is fight for bare survival and it is taking heavy emotional tool on the nation. What is ripping the social tissue of the country apart through stress, PTSD, mass shootings, mass depression etc. Therefore I claim average American citizen needs more guarantees in order to calm down finally, what is actually vital for the survival of the nation. I have said myself that building socialized medicine as the system isn't easy and that you should be careful about how to go through transition. But the nation that is obviously bleeding out needs something like this. As I told you minimum wage in my country is barely 500$ a month and we can still organize this, therefore I don't see how the greatest nation on Earth can't. We are recovering from a few wars on our soil and many decades of open dictatorship. However without programs such as socialized medicine we would be a literal shithole, with plenty of crazy people. Which is because many big trends are actually working against our people (and the same goes for USA).


Therefore let the average people have their fun. Most of the money for this will probably come from cutting out insurance industry that is rising the prices to the sky and therefore average rich person will not really feel this too much. They may even on the long run profit out of stronger social stability, healthy workforce, more stable household budgets, people willing to take risks since they aren't afraid of medical bills, or the fact that the guy that makes their burgers is fully insured (as well as girls they date)... etc.



I honestly don't think this is the end of the world (unless you are a healthcare insurance company). But even for those there are gazillion other industries around the best country in the world, where they can try their luck.



My 2 cents on the issue.