Trump vs. Bernie

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Especially hilarious will be the reactions of these "operation chaos" republicans when Bernie actually wins in November. I can't wait to ask them how that worked out for them. They'd be better off going in droves to vote for Bloomberg if they really want someone trump can take with ease. We'll talk about this on November 4th, [MENTION=20113]Tellenbach[/MENTION]

Bloomberg could alienate some of those demographics [MENTION=4347]Virtual ghost[/MENTION] noted, to the point many of them may just stay home. Low turnout has always been the greatest enemy of democratic candidates and the best hope for republicans.

And I won't feel bad for laughing at republican tears, as they've shown no similar concern when gloating over trump's victory in 2016.

 

[highlander]

I can't see the "crazy socialist" angle working as well on Bernie as Republicans think it will. I think tonight, we've been given a taste of how Bernie would respond, and I think that will work. Especially because Republicans have been calling Democrats socialists for decades; I remember a Republican in 2003 telling me that modern liberalism was more akin to socialism. I can't see that having the sting they think it will. Sanders has been very sharp and quick on his feet and shown that he is quick n responding to these kinds of attacks in the right way. He almost comes up with snappy comebacks. I think it would work beautifully on Trump, especially compared to Hillary's lame "Donald Trump is unhinged" schtick she took from Jeb! 's failed campaign. I don't want to quite say that I think Bernie can fight on Donald Trump's level, because he's better than that, but I think he's best posed to deal with his dipshittery. He can come up with responses that are way better than I think the other candidates are capable of producing, which is just stuff like "my grandpa was a corn farmer" or "I've been to mexico more than anyone else on this stage" or "I grew up in Oklahoma." That's the kind of stuff that professional political consultants think is genius but will fall flat on its face against Donald Trump. Thing is, there's not enough of them for them to matter too much. I think 2016 proved that. Hillary seemed to bank her campaign on their being countless legions of them and there just weren't. They probably all live in states that were certain to go for her anyway, like New York, Illinois, or California. What does it matter, strategically speaking, if you pick up a few Republican votes in states you were going to win without their help?

Hilary's problem was that for some reason she is unlikable. That's really why she lost. I saw only one candidate on the stage that was truly unlikable last night-Elizabeth Warren. In my opinion any of the rest of them can beat Trump because he is despised by so many.

 

[Maou]

He was quite popular in some more rural areas as well. He performed much better than Clinton in some of those districts in the 2016 primaries.

He's a real threat to Trump in the Midwest states that flipped red in 2016. All he really has to do is perform as well as Clinton did in the states she carried and flip some of the traditionally blue states that went red in 2016. With his populist appeal, he is the best positioned of any democratic candidate to pull this off. Look at his Michigan upset in the 2016 primaries. He was expected to tie or win by a slight margin but carried by 20 points. People there who felt abandoned by Clinton flocked to Trump. But they may feel Trump has since abandoned them.

I also think the age factor is overstated. His popularity with people over 40 is underestimated. I think it's growing.

He's also more popular with African American voters than he was in 2016. I don't see Pete or Bloomberg doing very well with that demographic in a GE


MSM might like us to believe he's only popular with young white college educated dudes. As much as you criticize the MSM, it's unfortunate you appear to have bought that narrative hook, line and sinker

I didn't buy any narrative, that is my own observation. Also, you should compare him with Obams numbers, not Clinton. Because Clinton was largely unlikeable.

 

[ceecee]

Trump would crucify Bernie on a debate. Bernie will come across as a well meaning zealot an academic without an ounce of practicality and he will lose. I would still vote for him but he will lose. Mostly if elected I believe he will be ineffective in getting support for his policies. He isnt a dictator like trump who is likely to ram things through. I really like Bernie.i just dont think he would be a good president.

I think Trump will skip the debates altogether. There is no reason for him to make himself vulnerable so I don't see him giving anyone a chance to laugh at him publicly. He didn't have that choice in 2016 but I doubt he would have debated then if he could have avoided it.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I think Trump will skip the debates altogether. There is no reason for him to make himself vulnerable so I don't see him giving anyone a chance to laugh at him publicly. He didn't have that choice in 2016 but I doubt he would have debated then if he could have avoided it.

Wouldn't be unprecedented. Didn't Nixon skip the 1972 debates?

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I didn't buy any narrative, that is my own observation. Also, you should compare him with Obams numbers, not Clinton. Because Clinton was largely unlikeable.

But the national and political landscape is more similar to that of 2016 than to that of 2008 or of 2012.

Clinton's unpopularity is exactly why I compared the two. Bernie will no doubt capture any solid blue states that went to Clinton, and due to being more popular than her, stands a better chance of flipping back traditionally blue states that went red in 2016, unless he makes the exact same mistakes as her and takes those states for granted (which I highly doubt he'll do).

Also, Look at crowds at Bernie's rallies--hardly limited to just young college-educated voters. Just as Trump's crowds aren't limited to white nationalist bubbas. You yourself, a millennial, anime loving female who once spoke of being excited to go to a trump rally, are proof of that latter point.

 

[ceecee]

Wouldn't be unprecedented. Didn't Nixon skip the 1972 debates?

He may have. There is no rule about debates for either party that I've found. Even if there was, it wouldn't matter. The GOP enables Trump, a lot of people that are Trump supporters don't really appreciate that Trump could do almost nothing without their consent.

I've been to 2 Trump rallies. This is the only place Trump will speak because he can say whatever crazy he wants and his audience eats it up. It's almost all lies and crazy exaggerations and so off topic, I can't even describe it. He knows he will be confined in a Pres. debate and would likely look like the idiot he is. So why bother?

 

[Maou]

But the national and political landscape is more similar to that of 2016 than to that of 2008 or of 2012.

Clinton's unpopularity is exactly why I compared the two. Bernie will no doubt capture any solid blue states that went to Clinton, and due to being more popular than her, stands a better chance of flipping back traditionally blue states that went red in 2016, unless he makes the exact same mistakes as her and takes those states for granted (which I highly doubt he'll do).

Also, Look at crowds at his rallies, hardly limited to just young college-educated voters. Just as Trump's crowds aren't limited to white nationalist bubbas.

Trump's crowds have always been equal, if not bigger. The media made them seem smaller. That was also a narrative.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Trump's crowds have always been equal, if not bigger. The media made them seem smaller. That was also a narrative.

Both draw large crowds. I expect Bernie's crowds will grow if he becomes nominee. My point wasn't about comparing the numbers at their crowds, but rather to argue that the diversity at Bernie's rallies counters the narrative that he's mostly doing well with young college educated people and "Bernie bros". I begrudgingly admit that crowds at trump's rallies are a little more diverse than the narrative which would suggest they're akin to 1930s Nazi Party rally crowds.

 

[ceecee]

But the national and political landscape is more similar to that of 2016 than to that of 2008 or of 2012.

Clinton's unpopularity is exactly why I compared the two. Bernie will no doubt capture any solid blue states that went to Clinton, and due to being more popular than her, stands a better chance of flipping back traditionally blue states that went red in 2016, unless he makes the exact same mistakes as her and takes those states for granted (which I highly doubt he'll do).

Also, Look at crowds at his rallies--hardly limited to just young college-educated voters. Just as Trump's crowds aren't limited to white nationalist bubbas. You yourself, a millennial, anime loving female who once spoke of being excited to go to a trump rally, are proof of that latter point.

I have been to 3 Bernie rallies. The difference between the Trump rally crowds I saw and the Bernie crowds are night and day. I saw a few Hispanic men at the Trump rallies but overwhelming white but not exclusively male. A lot of women and A LOT of Q believers which appear to include families, which is sad.

Bernie rallies have everything. From families with babies to old people, black white, Asian, Hispanic, Indian, everything in between, The atmospheres are also totally different. You don't feel anger and hate at a Bernie rally but those are all you feel at a Trump rally. I would tell anyone to go to one of the Trump things to see how it really is because what MSM says is pretty inaccurate.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

He may have. There is no rule about debates for either party that I've found. Even if there was, it wouldn't matter. The GOP enables Trump, a lot of people that are Trump supporters don't really appreciate that Trump could do almost nothing without their consent.

I've been to 2 Trump rallies. This is the only place Trump will speak because he can say whatever crazy he wants and his audience eats it up. It's almost all lies and crazy exaggerations and so off topic, I can't even describe it. He knows he will be confined in a Pres. debate and would likely look like the idiot he is. So why bother?

I looked it up, there were no GE Presidential debates in '64, '68 and '72.

That said, if enough attention is given to trump's unwillingness to debate, I could see him making a 180 and agreeing to debate to downplay criticisms. His ego is too big to stand being labelled a coward.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I have been to 3 Bernie rallies. The difference between the Trump rally crowds I saw and the Bernie crowds are night and day. I saw a few Hispanic men at the Trump rallies but overwhelming white but not exclusively male. A lot of women and A LOT of Q believers which appear to include families, which is sad.

Bernie rallies have everything. From families with babies to old people, black white, Asian, Hispanic, Indian, everything in between, The atmospheres are also totally different. You don't feel anger and hate at a Bernie rally but those are all you feel at a Trump rally. I would tell anyone to go to one of the Trump things to see how it really is because what MSM says is pretty inaccurate.

Right, I wasn't arguing Trump rallies are microcosms of American diversity, just that they're more diverse than some of his critics might believe. Believe me, I don't like being put in a position of appearing to defend Trump rally crowds.

 

[ceecee]

Right, I wasn't arguing Trump rallies are microcosms of American diversity, just that they're more diverse than some of his critics might believe. Believe me, I don't like being put in a position of appearing to defend Trump rally crowds.

Yeah it's not all white nationalists or militia members although there are MANY of those at the Trump things. But what gets lost is where Trump does his rallies. None of them are in places where he might draw more diversity that he claims support him (black unemployment numbers are all due to him, for example). Bernie does rallies in BFE Iowa as well as NYC or Seattle. Trump isn't coming to Detroit or Chicago, he comes here to Grand Rapids and Battle Creek - not much diversity and the crowds are smaller.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Yeah it's not all white nationalists or militia members although there are MANY of those at the Trump things. But what gets lost is where Trump does his rallies. None of them are in places where he might draw more diversity that he claims support him (black unemployment numbers are all due to him, for example). Bernie does rallies in BFE Iowa as well as NYC or Seattle. Trump isn't coming to Detroit or Chicago, he comes here to Grand Rapids and Battle Creek - not much diversity and the crowds are smaller.

Pretty good point there. Trump's not really doing much to convert the Gentiles at this point. Whereas Bernie seems to be expanding his base.

 

[ceecee]

Pretty good point there. Trump's not really doing much to convert the Gentiles at this point. Whereas Bernie seems to be expanding his base.

I've been to rallies before, even Obama who had crowds and energy like nothing before him. The Bernie rallies blow the Obama ones away. I would tell anyone, even if you don't support Bernie, go if there is a rally or event you can get to. Yes Bernie is angry and so are his supporters, me included. But that's not how you feel at the rally. You feel solidarity and love, as corny as that sounds. For anyone feeling beat down, depressed, sad or hopeless about the state of things - any Bernie event will help.

I thought Bernie's Iowa numbers seemed unrealistically high. Then I saw his rallies | Art Cullen | Opinion | The Guardian

I also want to add; There are Trump voters at Bernie rallies. It's all the same frustrations for the majority of people.

 

[Yuurei]

I've been to rallies before, even Obama who had crowds and energy like nothing before him. The Bernie rallies blow the Obama ones away. I would tell anyone, even if you don't support Bernie, go if there is a rally or event you can get to. Yes Bernie is angry and so are his supporters, me included. But that's not how you feel at the rally. You feel solidarity and love, as corny as that sounds. For anyone feeling beat down, depressed, sad or hopeless about the state of things - any Bernie event will help.

I thought Bernie's Iowa numbers seemed unrealistically high. Then I saw his rallies | Art Cullen | Opinion | The Guardian

I also want to add; There are Trump voters at Bernie rallies. It's all the same frustrations for the majority of people.

I don’t really feel like being ‘splained to by a bunch of misogynist, well off, progressive” dudes, so far, that has been my experience. It could be a regional thing.

 

[ceecee]

I don’t really feel like being ‘splained to by a bunch of misogynist, well off, progressive” dudes, so far, that has been my experience. It could be a regional thing.

Well, I can say with total sincerity, the DSA and progressive group folks I work with are anything but well off or misogynistic. I've not witnessed or encountered this myself at Bernie rallies either.

 

[Jaguar]

I would tell anyone to go to one of the Trump things to see how it really is because what FOX says is pretty inaccurate.

Fixed.

 

[Yuurei]

Well, I can say with total sincerity, the DSA and progressive group folks I work with are anything but well off or misogynistic. I've not witnessed or encountered this myself at Bernie rallies either.

I definitely live in an area rife with pretentious tech bros. I don’t know if there is a term for them; the type who ‘splain to all the poor how to fix their lives, as if it’s that easy for everyone while claiming to be progressive.

But I do try not to generalize. I suppose the only way to meet the better ones would to go find sone. I suppose I will when/ if he comes through again.

 

[ceecee]

Fixed.

You are free to be as delusional as you like on this subject. Just in case people don't know - all the ghouls are on the same team. That's all of mainstream non-independent, corporately funded media, CNN and FOX are identical in this respect, the GOP, the DNC and the vast majority of the Democratic party, wealthy donors that donate for access to both parties, corporations willing to buy entire legislative bodies and the stupid amount of focus on cold call fundraising by representatives when they should be doing their fucking job and the poor dumb bastards wringing their hands wondering what moderate they should vote for to get rid of Trump, since he is the only problem.