• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

This is Paris

Siúil a Rúin

To the waters of the wild
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
13,342
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I found these posted years ago long before this documentary.

Student no.1 in the school on and off from 2003-2006

Student no.2 in the school from 2005-2007
Describes the environment and system
She gets TB while at school

Student no.3 in the school from 1988-89 is quite serious.

There is a shift after the year 2000 when it changed ownership, although the first two students still describe issues at the school, but it mostly sounds like a really tough reform, military type school. The student from the 80's was exposed to outright abuse that is extreme and would be an open and shut legal case.

Paris was at the school in the 90's, so that is before the transfer of ownership. It is possible it was as bad as the third student described, unless there was legal action taken to get rid of some of the worst staff like the counselor mentioned. I would suspect it leaned strongly in the direction of the third student's description because the major shift would have been at the change of ownership in August 2000.
 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
25,322
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I struggle a little that one year out of someone's life could have such lasting damage. Does it work that way? I know at that age kids form very strong emotional memories but still..
 

Peter Deadpan

phallus impudicus
Joined
Dec 14, 2016
Messages
8,891
I struggle a little that one year out of someone's life could have such lasting damage. Does it work that way? I know at that age kids form very strong emotional memories but still..

Absolutely, yes it could. But, everyone is different, and there are too many variables to outline a norm with something like this. Also, oftentimes people don't realize how much something may have affected them (or how specifically) until years later when they start to look back on their lives through a different lens.

I'm not speaking of Hilton here... just in general.
 

Siúil a Rúin

To the waters of the wild
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
13,342
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I struggle a little that one year out of someone's life could have such lasting damage. Does it work that way? I know at that age kids form very strong emotional memories but still..
It depends what happened and how/why they were troubled in the first place to go to that school. The video clip from the girl who attended in the 80's showed how her childhood sexual abuse was triggered by strip searches, counselors making her confess to seducing her uncle as a child, large men tackling her and I think they said they removed their clothes. That's a lot for a teenager to face on top of childhood sexual abuse. Being made to stand for 16 hours and not allowed to have anything except feet touch the floor, having to wait 6 hours holding up your hand before being allowed to go to the bathroom, etc. If you watch the last video segments, they are kinda extreme. It sounded like a prisoner of war camp to me.

I am confused in certain ways about the documentary, especially because her life falls so far outside of normal experience also having extreme privilege. Most people subjected to that sort of powerlessness are never given the power of royalty like that. Her life is incomprehensible to me. It also strikes me with shock that a school would have the audacity to abuse her, knowing who she is. I would think they would be afraid of lawsuits if they didn't have permission from parents or somehow feel they could get away with it. The girl in the last video was a quiet and submissive type and her family was probably not wealthy. Her issue was being suicidal and not rebellious. She would be an easy target for bullying, but maybe they had the audacity to abuse children of powerful families. That adds a new level of terror to the whole thing.
 

chickpea

perfect person
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
5,662
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I struggle a little that one year out of someone's life could have such lasting damage. Does it work that way? I know at that age kids form very strong emotional memories but still..

haven't watched the documentary yet, but i'm sure that pre-existing trauma probably led to her getting sent to that school in the first place. i've heard a lot of terrible things about her maternal grandmother essentially pimping her daughters out and assume that dynamic impacted her childhood.
 

Siúil a Rúin

To the waters of the wild
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
13,342
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
haven't watched the documentary yet, but i'm sure that pre-existing trauma probably led to her getting sent to that school in the first place. i've heard a lot of terrible things about her maternal grandmother essentially pimping her daughters out and assume that dynamic impacted her childhood.
Do you have a link referencing this information? That would be tragic if true, but noting the seriousness of the allegation it's important to connect it with evidence. Paris does not mention anything about that in the documentary, and instead says her family is conservative, strict, and she wasn't allowed to date or dress provocatively as a teenager, but was sent to finishing school to learn proper etiquette.
 

chickpea

perfect person
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
5,662
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Do you have a link referencing this information? That would be tragic if true, but noting the seriousness of the allegation it's important to connect it with evidence. Paris does not mention anything about that in the documentary, and instead says her family is conservative, strict, and she wasn't allowed to date or dress provocatively as a teenager, but was sent to finishing school to learn proper etiquette.



sadly celebrity gossip is difficult to find solid sources on, and you have to take everything with a grain of salt.

i’m actually watching the documentary right now and they do briefly mention that her mother and aunts were child actresses and models. her grandmother (kathy richards) was a classic stage parent, used her daughters as a paycheck, and *allegedly* strongly pushed them into marrying wealthy men for her own benefit (what i mean by pimping). paris’s two aunts, kyle and kim richards, have both been cast members on the real housewives of beverly hills. kim was the most successful actress of the family, and is clearly very damaged and struggles with serious addiction issues. they are extremely protective of the “family secrets.”

Kim Richards' gold-digging mom forced her to 'perform' for her male friends | Daily Mail Online
 

Siúil a Rúin

To the waters of the wild
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
13,342
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
sadly celebrity gossip is difficult to find solid sources on, and you have to take everything with a grain of salt.

i’m actually watching the documentary right now and they do briefly mention that her mother and aunts were child actresses and models. her grandmother (kathy richards) was a classic stage parent, used her daughters as a paycheck, and *allegedly* strongly pushed them into marrying wealthy men for her own benefit (what i mean by pimping). paris’s two aunts, kyle and kim richards, have both been cast members on the real housewives of beverly hills. kim was the most successful actress of the family, and is clearly very damaged and struggles with serious addiction issues. they are extremely protective of the “family secrets.”

Kim Richards' gold-digging mom forced her to 'perform' for her male friends | Daily Mail Online
Oh, okay. That's helpful to know what you meant by pimping, and actually a lot of mothers do that, only on a smaller scale when they want daughters to marry doctors, etc.

In actual child sex trafficking there are parents who have child molesters pay for spending time with their children. It's incomprehensible, but there are people who literally pimp out their children, and This article describes it. That's why I took it literally.

Edit: I'll read that article you referenced. "Performing for male friends" makes it sound sexualized. I'm a little confused about the article because I'm not sure how she is related to Paris, but that's okay. I'll figure it out and I'm sure money hungry culture does use their children to increase income. I'm sure it was difficult. Maybe I'm wrong about this but I'm not necessarily against child acting or modeling, but it can be problematic for children emotionally when people are more focused on money and success than the children.
 

chickpea

perfect person
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
5,662
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
[MENTION=14857]Powehi[/MENTION]
kim richards is paris’s aunt, her mother’s sister
 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
25,322
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Okay, that wasn't quite as insightful as I was hoping. I mean ... I think it's fairly safe to say she likely has a personality disorder. Having a personality disorder doesn't necessarily mean one doesn't have feelings though. In fact, even psychopaths have feelings, just within limited parameters. Regardless, her childhood was fucked up. I tend to view all highly elite upbringings as being a bit fucked up, even moreso for those involving fame and/or social status competition. Still haven't watched the full video. Maybe I won't. :happy2:
Your comments were more insightful than his BTW :).
 

Frosty

Poking the poodle
Joined
Apr 6, 2015
Messages
12,395
Instinctual Variant
sp
Idk if this is the same thing as Im too lazy to watch the video but theres this comic series some guy made about one of the troubled teen schools and its fucking amazing what people there did.

Elan.School

Its not the same school but... gives a first hand account of what lots of those schools were like. Pretty much humilation focused
 

cascadeco

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
9,083
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I watched the bulk of this video the other morning, though I skipped through parts that I found redundant or just documenting her whole social media persona which basically grosses me out.

On the one hand it's pretty easy for me to sit back and judge her lifestyle and choices, and I'll admit I'd probably never be able to be a friend of hers or want to walk with her / help her. However, that said, I can also say that in watching the video I did sense kind of where she is coming from and why she is where she is and who she is -- and for that I can see the humanity and empathize.

To earlier posters / questions, I think one can 100% be deeply impacted with 'just' a year of trauma. Whether or not other people would judge it as trauma might be beside the point; if it impacts the person greatly, it's trauma for them. I have been deeply impacted by certain situations or dynamics in my life, that may have only lasted a few months, or a few years, or whatever, but there have been lasting impressions and changing of perceptions in my life. So I think it's very realistic that just one year can impact someone greatly.

I would say too though that to other posters' comments, with Paris, it likely has been her whole lifetime. I was chatting with a coworker and he was saying he empathized but also didn't really feel sorry for her per se, and I kind of agree with him, or at least can see where he's coming from. I think we can 'get' people but it doesn't mean we have to dive into their lives and relate or be the ones to help them through. Anyway, my kneejerk opinion from the video is that something is going on with her mom -- like she's completely out of touch with things or represses her own feelings, and seemed in denial or just totally checked out of Paris' life. I also can understand that relationships are complex, and I can see that it's possible being a parent of Paris or sibling, etc, could be totally challenging and I'm sure there's another side to the coin. So I also 'get' that maybe there's a reason for the mom seeming so cold and checked out.

Similarly, I didn't feel in a position to judge the little clip with Paris and her boyfriend where she kicked him out of the concert and I assume they broke up -- we have no idea what their dynamic was behind the scenes / off camera, and it's highly possible the guy was just as manipulative and controlling on his end as she seemed to 'dominate' him in that little clip.

The only other larger thought I had was that by this point, with 20+ years of being on camera and defining ones' self and life via being on camera, it's likely nearly impossible for Paris to check out from that -- to be able to identify who she'd be off camera. It's so essential at this point to her sense of self that I guess I wasn't too bothered by the fact that the documentary seemed a bit contrived and like there was a hidden motive behind it; I mean, I would expect nothing less given the fact she's almost 24/7 catering to her 'fans' and tailoring her image to the masses and to the whole presentation thing. I imagine it would be pretty hard at this point for her to not do that.

The other thing I was thinking about regarding all of the school stuff is that, what parent, intuitively, actually thinks it's going to be *beneficial* to a kid to ship them off somewhere for a year or two in their formative years? What parent in their right mind could think it's psychologically going to be 'ok' and the kid won't end up with lasting trust or trauma issues to have them straight-jacketed in the middle of the night and taken somewhere? How terrifying. Why people don't think about the psychological and relational repercussions to things like this is beyond me. Maybe some are aware of this, and if so, I guess they are making the choice; at least there's that. But I think many just have no idea - seems an almost guaranteed way to ensure the kid is going to have perpetual trust/love issues. Maybe in their mind that's worth the price of the other issues the kid is having? I have no idea.

With all of the above I'm not really intending to 'defend' her -- these were just some of my thoughts, and like I said in reality I would stay far away from her (nothing in common, no interest in being a 'white knight', etc). But I was thinking this stuff while watching the documentary. I don't doubt the school stuff, and I suspect her family dynamic is really warped. I also enjoyed seeing another side of her -- whether or not it was designed to give a certain impression, I at least came away knowing a little more about her.
 

Siúil a Rúin

To the waters of the wild
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
13,342
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I watched the bulk of this video the other morning, though I skipped through parts that I found redundant or just documenting her whole social media persona which basically grosses me out.

On the one hand it's pretty easy for me to sit back and judge her lifestyle and choices, and I'll admit I'd probably never be able to be a friend of hers or want to walk with her / help her. However, that said, I can also say that in watching the video I did sense kind of where she is coming from and why she is where she is and who she is -- and for that I can see the humanity and empathize.

To earlier posters / questions, I think one can 100% be deeply impacted with 'just' a year of trauma. Whether or not other people would judge it as trauma might be beside the point; if it impacts the person greatly, it's trauma for them. I have been deeply impacted by certain situations or dynamics in my life, that may have only lasted a few months, or a few years, or whatever, but there have been lasting impressions and changing of perceptions in my life. So I think it's very realistic that just one year can impact someone greatly.

I would say too though that to other posters' comments, with Paris, it likely has been her whole lifetime. I was chatting with a coworker and he was saying he empathized but also didn't really feel sorry for her per se, and I kind of agree with him, or at least can see where he's coming from. I think we can 'get' people but it doesn't mean we have to dive into their lives and relate or be the ones to help them through. Anyway, my kneejerk opinion from the video is that something is going on with her mom -- like she's completely out of touch with things or represses her own feelings, and seemed in denial or just totally checked out of Paris' life. I also can understand that relationships are complex, and I can see that it's possible being a parent of Paris or sibling, etc, could be totally challenging and I'm sure there's another side to the coin. So I also 'get' that maybe there's a reason for the mom seeming so cold and checked out.

Similarly, I didn't feel in a position to judge the little clip with Paris and her boyfriend where she kicked him out of the concert and I assume they broke up -- we have no idea what their dynamic was behind the scenes / off camera, and it's highly possible the guy was just as manipulative and controlling on his end as she seemed to 'dominate' him in that little clip.

The only other larger thought I had was that by this point, with 20+ years of being on camera and defining ones' self and life via being on camera, it's likely nearly impossible for Paris to check out from that -- to be able to identify who she'd be off camera. It's so essential at this point to her sense of self that I guess I wasn't too bothered by the fact that the documentary seemed a bit contrived and like there was a hidden motive behind it; I mean, I would expect nothing less given the fact she's almost 24/7 catering to her 'fans' and tailoring her image to the masses and to the whole presentation thing. I imagine it would be pretty hard at this point for her to not do that.

The other thing I was thinking about regarding all of the school stuff is that, what parent, intuitively, actually thinks it's going to be *beneficial* to a kid to ship them off somewhere for a year or two in their formative years? What parent in their right mind could think it's psychologically going to be 'ok' and the kid won't end up with lasting trust or trauma issues to have them straight-jacketed in the middle of the night and taken somewhere? How terrifying. Why people don't think about the psychological and relational repercussions to things like this is beyond me. Maybe some are aware of this, and if so, I guess they are making the choice; at least there's that. But I think many just have no idea - seems an almost guaranteed way to ensure the kid is going to have perpetual trust/love issues. Maybe in their mind that's worth the price of the other issues the kid is having? I have no idea.

With all of the above I'm not really intending to 'defend' her -- these were just some of my thoughts, and like I said in reality I would stay far away from her (nothing in common, no interest in being a 'white knight', etc). But I was thinking this stuff while watching the documentary. I don't doubt the school stuff, and I suspect her family dynamic is really warped. I also enjoyed seeing another side of her -- whether or not it was designed to give a certain impression, I at least came away knowing a little more about her.
To the bolded, the reason I judged it is because it revealed an extreme power imbalance. He was not in a position to order staff to haul her away. Imagine dating someone who can at any point command a team of people to physically remove you from their presence. There is no capacity for equanimity there. She would need to date a man who also had support staff who could drag her away. It is a similar relationship to an employer dating an employee, a teacher with a student, anyone who can exert power in one direction. The reason those relationships are frowned upon by society is that structurally there is a power imbalance. Maybe the guy was manipulative and controlling, but at any moment in time she was done, she had an entire team to literally drag him away and a line around the block of other cute guys to take his place. That's the reason I judge it. She also overtly told her sister she was not interested in an equal partnership because then she would not have control. She used the word 'control'. It's the same thing as an employer who will only date people in their employ.

I could see how her time at that school could make her need to remain in a position of power with others, but relationally it is quite a structural imbalance and not based on personalities differences like people with regular jobs and power.
 

cascadeco

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
9,083
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
To the bolded, the reason I judged it is because it revealed an extreme power imbalance. He was not in a position to order staff to haul her away. Imagine dating someone who can at any point command a team of people to physically remove you from their presence. There is no capacity for equanimity there. She would need to date a man who also had support staff who could drag her away. It is a similar relationship to an employer dating an employee, a teacher with a student, anyone who can exert power in one direction. The reason those relationships are frowned upon by society is that structurally there is a power imbalance. Maybe the guy was manipulative and controlling, but at any moment in time she was done, she had an entire team to literally drag him away and a line around the block of other cute guys to take his place. That's the reason I judge it. She also overtly told her sister she was not interested in an equal partnership because then she would not have control. She used the word 'control'. It's the same thing as an employer who will only date people in their employ.

I could see how her time at that school could make her need to remain in a position of power with others, but relationally it is quite a structural imbalance and not based on personalities differences like people with regular jobs and power.

That's fair. :yes:

I definitely viewed it differently, as I thought it was pretty inconsiderate and lame of him to try to have an emotional conversation like that, about 'bigger issues' / relational issues, right before a big event that she was running. The timing seemed incredibly bizarre and I would have probably felt it was pretty unsupportive, the timing was weirdly inappropriate in a destructive way, etc. But anyway, I am sure she would be a nightmare to be in a relationship with, so I don't exactly disagree with your points, and I am sure manipulation and stuff abounds, from both (he'd use 'tactics' like he did there, where the timing was terrible and not attuned to what she was doing just minutes away), so again, I am not excusing her -- I just got a gross read from him in all of the footage as well. :laugh:
 

Siúil a Rúin

To the waters of the wild
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
13,342
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
That's fair. :yes:

I definitely viewed it differently, as I thought it was pretty inconsiderate and lame of him to try to have an emotional conversation like that, about 'bigger issues' / relational issues, right before a big event that she was running. The timing seemed incredibly bizarre and I would have probably felt it was pretty unsupportive, the timing was weirdly inappropriate in a destructive way, etc. But anyway, I am sure she would be a nightmare to be in a relationship with, so I don't exactly disagree with your points, and I am sure manipulation and stuff abounds, from both (he'd use 'tactics' like he did there, where the timing was terrible and not attuned to what she was doing just minutes away), so again, I am not excusing her -- I just got a gross read from him in all of the footage as well. :laugh:
I suspected that scene was staged in part because I have never seen a man act that way. If not staged, then it seemed so unnatural that I wondered if it was built towards, so the timing could serve. They did describe how she loves having little emergencies just as she is getting ready for stuff. There is always drama on the way out the door. I saw her as being energized by that drama - like it gave her momentum to perform. I've known performers a bit like that - it's a sort of emotional adrenaline rush that they use to redirect into the performance.
 

Peter Deadpan

phallus impudicus
Joined
Dec 14, 2016
Messages
8,891
Idk if this is the same thing as Im too lazy to watch the video but theres this comic series some guy made about one of the troubled teen schools and its fucking amazing what people there did.

Elan.School

Its not the same school but... gives a first hand account of what lots of those schools were like. Pretty much humilation focused

I'm glad you shared this, although it appears that no one wants to actually talk about it, which I think is a shame. I once cared deeply about a person who went to a place not terribly unlike this, although I didn't get to learn much about the specifics of his experience. He wasn't much of a talker and I didn't want to cross any sensitive boundaries. That's why I was so glad to see someone speaking about it.
 

Siúil a Rúin

To the waters of the wild
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
13,342
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I'm glad you shared this, although it appears that no one wants to actually talk about it, which I think is a shame. I once cared deeply about a person who went to a place not terribly unlike this, although I didn't get to learn much about the specifics of his experience. He wasn't much of a talker and I didn't want to cross any sensitive boundaries. That's why I was so glad to see someone speaking about it.

You might find these links from other students at that school through the years that I posted a few pages back useful for discussion. There is quite a bit of information available when googling it.

I found these posted years ago long before this documentary.

Student no.1 in the school on and off from 2003-2006

Student no.2 in the school from 2005-2007
Describes the environment and system
She gets TB while at school

Student no.3 in the school from 1988-89 is quite serious.

There is a shift after the year 2000 when it changed ownership, although the first two students still describe issues at the school, but it mostly sounds like a really tough reform, military type school. The student from the 80's was exposed to outright abuse that is extreme and would be an open and shut legal case.
 

Peter Deadpan

phallus impudicus
Joined
Dec 14, 2016
Messages
8,891
You might find these links from other students at that school through the years that I posted a few pages back useful for discussion. There is quite a bit of information available when googling it.

Sorry... I wasn't attempting to dismiss your contribution on the subject. I was just hoping to see more of an empathetic discussion about it overall here. But, it is a thread about Paris Hilton, and these schools aren't exactly super common knowledge or common experiences, so I can't really expect a plethora of discussion from many participants.
 

Siúil a Rúin

To the waters of the wild
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
13,342
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
^Those links take a little time to watch, but it is very helpful to see these accounts to understand what was happening at those schools. I'll check back through the thread to see if there are others. The links and others like them are a good way to generate discussion about it. There is more detail than was in the documentary, although there was some descriptions there too. There is a difference in the accounts before and after 2000 when the school transferred ownership, although there are issues to address in all the accounts.

I let myself get a little triggered by that one scene with the guy and the context for it because even though I've never literally begged for attention like he was, I know what that feeling is and how it builds up over time, and for a moment I experienced being dragged away and the sort of humiliation that goes with it.

I should focus more on what must have happened during those years as well. Sharing the links for the accounts of others sheds important light on it. I think her story is hard to relate to because few people have gone from powerlessness to such power. It can be difficult to reconcile the two because both are fundamental to her life. I have trouble relating to personality dynamics and contexts that would enable a person to go that range. I'm more familiar with people who have trauma and no money because there is a sort of beat-down quality that doesn't leave enough ego strength for that other side of her personality. The woman in the earliest video has that vibe that is familiar to me for trauma. I don't know what it is for a person to have both. I've never known someone like that. It is also confusing having confessional authenticity embedded so deeply in image presentation, even in the documentary. There is a way it requires navigating between two opposite presentations at the same time and finding a way to hear a reality in both.
 
Top