• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

This is Paris

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
25,854
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Interesting story. Kind of sad really. I always knew there was an intelligent person inside there with a lot more depth than seems to be on the surface. Never heard of those schools she was referring to that resulted in her PTSD and so many other problems in her life.

 

Peter Deadpan

phallus impudicus
Joined
Dec 14, 2016
Messages
8,886
I'm glad somebody is talking about this. I skimmed through the video and may give it a full watch later this week.

It breaks my heart... what these kids go through, and how it affects them for the rest of their lives, oftentimes under the guise of Christianity.
 

ceecee

Dunkin Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
15,016
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
8w9
The more I read about these programs, it sounds like legalized child abuse 6 Shocking Realities of the Secret 'Troubled Teen Industry' | Cracked.com

They are. The rehabilitation for profit industry is the same way. But a lot of these young people were not addicted to anything either.

Rehab scam: Defendants in court-ordered rehab work for free

I get most people really have no idea what's gong on but this is what little regulation, little to no oversight and profit at any cost produces. The human toll is incredible and there are so many walking around with trauma issues due to places like this I'm not at all surprised how things end up.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
47,342
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
The more I read about these programs, it sounds like legalized child abuse 6 Shocking Realities of the Secret 'Troubled Teen Industry' | Cracked.com

The tree stump incident sounds like someone watched "Shane" too many times and thought it would be a formative experience.

It breaks my heart... what these kids go through, and how it affects them for the rest of their lives, oftentimes under the guise of Christianity.

Yeah, it definitely happens under religious context a great deal, and there were numerous camps (I think Florida had been a common state) essentially due to lack of regulation.

I think I described my daughter's experience in one of my older blogs. My ex had physical custody, my daughter was 12 or so, and the home situation became realistically untenable and my ex got the bright idea last minute to send her to a program for a year. Agreeing initially (just to at least temporarily get them away from each other) was one of the worst mistakes I ever made as a parent but the courts were useless in helping me get her back out. It wasn't as bad as the camps in the Cracked articles but it wasn't great and was pretty much a juvie religious home, for young teen girls with drug, pregnancy, and other issues their parents didn't know how to resolve -- whereas the issue with my daughter really was my ex's inability to flex and/or deal with a teenager and mother/daughter conflict. I wondered how many other girls in the facility actually had problems versus just being dumped there by religious parents who "couldn't control their behavior."

Some of the camps I have read about are just abusive.

I haven't watched the Paris video, but I did notice an article within the last week that she was now 39 years old. It's funny how someone's age can get locked into one's mind when you don't hear about them for a long time, I keep thinking of her as a twenty-year-old due to all the articles and media attention on her at the time.
 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
25,854
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I haven't watched the Paris video, but I did notice an article within the last week that she was now 39 years old. It's funny how someone's age can get locked into one's mind when you don't hear about them for a long time, I keep thinking of her as a twenty-year-old due to all the articles and media attention on her at the time.

Her life sounds pretty dysfunctional. She's a workaholic, unable to develop or maintain relationships with men, unable to be herself and be open, suffers from horrible insomnia, anxiety and PTSD, waking up with nightmares all the time from when they abducted her and is addicted to social media. I see a lost soul who is surrounded by a sycophantic mahine that want to keep the gravy train of money coming regardless as to how it affects her. When she isn't in front of the bright lights or at image boosting events, she comes across as a pretty unhappy person. Sbe doesn't seem to know who she is. Its like she is a product being marketed and addicted to the constant influx of money- that if she only makes just a bit more of - she will be happy. One of the saddest moments of all was when she told her mom what happened and her mom didn't even shed a tear. It's easy to take having good parents for granted.
 

Peter Deadpan

phallus impudicus
Joined
Dec 14, 2016
Messages
8,886
Paris Hilton strikes me as someone who, in addition to or perhaps because of her dysfunctional childhood, has Histrionic Personality Disorder. I say this compassionately. I think it's probably extremely painful to have your personality wired in such a way that makes you feel like you need to present yourself in a childlike, shallow, or sexually provocative manner in order to have value as a person, and to be unable to be a more concentrated, true version of oneself.

You can see in the video that she still does that thing where she elevates her voice to a childlike pitch when her boyfriend arrives, and her whole demeanor changes. I do think that can be a subtle thing in people without personality disorders (being cutesy isn't necessarily pathological), but cumulatively, when the pieces come together, Hilton seems unsettled with her identity and worth.

I wish everyone could see mental illness and personality disorders in a different light overall. They are so painful to live with, and the helplessness... being unsure how to change one's wiring, especially when you are scared of people hurting you. I think about this often.
 

Siúil a Rúin

To the waters of the wild
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
13,520
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I think it is a complex documentary. I watched the entire thing last night and don't have all final conclusions, but it is carefully constructed and intended to strengthen her brand as well as address these reform school issues.

I do know there were dysfunctional schools like that during the 80's and 90's in the media. You may remember some of the shock Talk Shows during that time which would often have guests with rebellious teens. Then they would bring in this drill sergeant guy to scream at them and take them off to a reform-type school.

There are a few claims made in the video unrelated to that school that have a strong marketing focus. She claims to have invented the Selfie, but I think whoever added a camera app to a phone created it. Normal, general people are self-centered enough to come up with the idea of taking pictures of themselves. They also claim she established the competitive paparazzi, but there was Princess Di before her. She is called the original influencer.

The timing for talking about victimization is highly marketable right now. There is great power in victimization in our society right now, and most celebrities have a story about it. It is also entirely possible that it happened in this severe manner because it does happen to people.

I don't see it as a vulnerable tell-all, take the risk of putting everything out there, naked authenticity. It is a highly constructed presentation. I would expect a court case and legal action to happen next for someone in her position to call out a victimizer. She definitely has resources to solve the problem legally. If there is a statute of limitations issue, then investigations into current violations would be a natural course of action for someone in her position. I will be interested to see if she donates money and legal resources to correct this problem larger scale.

Here is a link to the school. I don't remember the documentary mentioning that it was sold to new ownership in 2000. If they are using those abusive tactics then legal action should be taken.
Programs at Provo Canyon School | ProvoCanyon.com
 

Peter Deadpan

phallus impudicus
Joined
Dec 14, 2016
Messages
8,886
I think it is a complex documentary. I watched the entire thing last night and don't have all final conclusions, but it is carefully constructed and intended to strengthen her brand as well as address these reform school issues.

I do know there were dysfunctional schools like that during the 80's and 90's in the media. You may remember some of the shock Talk Shows during that time which would often have guests with rebellious teens. Then they would bring in this drill sergeant guy to scream at them and take them off to a reform-type school.

There are a few claims made in the video unrelated to that school that have a strong marketing focus. She claims to have invented the Selfie, but I think whoever added a camera app to a phone created it. Normal, general people are self-centered enough to come up with the idea of taking pictures of themselves. They also claim she established the competitive paparazzi, but there was Princess Di before her. She is called the original influencer.

The timing for talking about victimization is highly marketable right now. There is great power in victimization in our society right now, and most celebrities have a story about it. It is also entirely possible that it happened in this severe manner because it does happen to people.

I don't see it as a vulnerable tell-all, take the risk of putting everything out there, naked authenticity. It is a highly constructed presentation. I would expect a court case and legal action to happen next for someone in her position to call out a victimizer. She definitely has resources to solve the problem legally. If there is a statute of limitations issue, then investigations into current violations would be a natural course of action for someone in her position. I will be interested to see if she donates money and legal resources to correct this problem larger scale.

Here is a link to the school. I don't remember the documentary mentioning that it was sold to new ownership in 2000. If they are using those abusive tactics then legal action should be taken.
Programs at Provo Canyon School | ProvoCanyon.com

I'm confused. Are you saying you don't think she has legitimate trauma and pain? I didn't watch the whole thing, so I can't speak to the marketing angle at present, but I think marketing herself is so deeply engrained in her personality because of her family and upbringing (and likely personality disorder) that I'd be surprised if there were no elements of marketing in anything she presents, because her sense of self revolves around selling herself as a brand and earning recognition and respect through that recognition.

I actually think it's quite tragic. This is why I vehemently oppose pageantry and child stardom.
 

Doctor Cringelord

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2013
Messages
19,708
I'm looking forward to seeing it. I always thought she was exceedingly more interesting and complex than the Kardashians and similar reality stars for whom she helped to pave a marketable path.

I always used to hate on her, because it was so cool and easy to hate on her. She was a spoiled brat. I'm ashamed to have just mindlessly jumped on the hate Paris bandwagon, but at the time she just stood for everything I hated about both the state of television and our culture's obsession with the lives of the wealthy and vapid. I remember reading a story of her at an electronic music show trying to request the DJ play something else during his set. He essentially told her to fuck off after she reportedly said "I'm Paris Fucking Hilton." But then she's grown up in a family with a prominent name, so I don't expect her to have a frame of reference or realize how self centered that might have seemed.

Whether or not she is spoiled, she also seems to be genuinely nice and caring. She's not a narcissist or lacking compassion, she just came up in a very narcissistic culture. I sense a kind soul, but perhaps clouded and sometimes misguided by insecurities (but who isn't?)

I used to scoff when I read she was becoming a DJ. Especially after that footage of her not even touching the knobs on her equipment at a show. It legitimately pissed me off to think she could land big gigs with her name while many DJs might work years to hone their skills and struggle to land any gigs. I knew people who had spun trance for raves and clubs back in the day, and many made little money on gigs, pursuing it because they loved it. But that was a while ago and she's continued to DJ for the better part of the last decade, so I have to wonder if it was really just a gimmick as I'd originally assumed. I mean, if she's genuinely found a pursuit she's passionate about and is trying to hone her skills at that craft or art, then I have to respect that, being someone who's pursued music themself. Having seen videos of her DJing at home during the quarantine, it seems she's gotten a lot better at it too, and really seems to enjoy doing it. The songs she uses in her sets aren't really my cup of tea, a little too much in the technopop and poppier side of house for my tastes, but I respect that she's improved her skilsl and is trying to prove she isn't just using her name to get expensive gigs and play prerecorded mixes whilst pretending to turn knobs on equipment that isn't turned on (as some have alleged). She was legitimately using the mixing board and adjusting knobs in the videos I watched from her home setup. And she appeared confident and relaxed in it. It's always a pleasure to watch someone both enjoying themselves and expanding their skills at music

I saw someone say she was sort of like a real life Barbie, in the sense that Barbie has been seen in so many various forms doing various jobs and activities--similar to Paris has dabbled in so many different trades and hobbies. I think she is a sort of real life American Barbie, though I mean that in the most positive sense.
 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
25,854
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I would expect a court case and legal action to happen next for someone in her position to call out a victimizer. She definitely has resources to solve the problem legally. If there is a statute of limitations issue, then investigations into current violations would be a natural course of action for someone in her position. I will be interested to see if she donates money and legal resources to correct this problem larger scale.

Here is a link to the school. I don't remember the documentary mentioning that it was sold to new ownership in 2000. If they are using those abusive tactics then legal action should be taken.
Programs at Provo Canyon School | ProvoCanyon.com

It sounds like a lot of legal action was already taken but based on what her mom said earlier in the documentary, she seems to have been oblivious to it all.

Provo Canyon School - Wikipedia
 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
25,854
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
This guy's analysis is interesting. He does her Big 5 Profile and analyzes her personality and the dichotomy between the image and the real person. You can definitely see the issues with identity, sense of meaning and connection with narcissism.

 

Peter Deadpan

phallus impudicus
Joined
Dec 14, 2016
Messages
8,886
This guy's analysis is interesting. He does her Big 5 Profile and analyzes her personality and the dichotomy between the image and the real person. You can definitely see the issues with identity, sense of meaning and connection with narcissism.


Ooooh, I'm excited about this. I can't watch now cuz I'm making dinner, but this guy makes good videos, am familiar. I also have yet to watch the full Hilton video.
 

Peter Deadpan

phallus impudicus
Joined
Dec 14, 2016
Messages
8,886
Okay, that wasn't quite as insightful as I was hoping.

I mean ... I think it's fairly safe to say she likely has a personality disorder. Having a personality disorder doesn't necessarily mean one doesn't have feelings though. In fact, even psychopaths have feelings, just within limited parameters. Regardless, her childhood was fucked up. I tend to view all highly elite upbringings as being a bit fucked up, even moreso for those involving fame and/or social status competition.

Still haven't watched the full video. Maybe I won't. :happy2:
 

SearchingforPeace

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2015
Messages
5,512
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I know someone who spent his senior year at Provo Canyon School. He is freely admits he was in a very bad place before he went, defiant, rebellious, engaging in illegal activity, e.t.c.

As to the school itself, they picked him up from his house, put him in a straight jacket, and put him in a van and drove him there across multiple states.

He was in solitary for 6 months, because he refused to submit to their rules. He never claimed beatings. For his second 6 months, he submitted enough he had freedom and he said it wasn't that bad.

When he came home, he really didn't change much, and went back to having the same issues. Only decades later did he more or less grow out of it.

He didn't think the experience scarred him. He just remembers engaging in a ton of jerking off all day long.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
47,342
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Watched about 15 minutes so far... keep falling asleep in the middle of the day, it's kind of boring. But maybe I haven't reached anything interesting yet.

My first reactions aren't that charitable, I guess, and I am open to having them change, but I'll just be honest at the moment:

Maybe I am having a sharp reaction because despite being white collar and college-educated, I grew up in a very rural county surrounded by corn fields, my graduating class had 200 people in it at best, and most of them stayed local and never attended college and still live there. The Farm Show was the biggest event around. Even though I do decently well occupationally and income-wise, I own no stock and have no inheritance and have no family name. I just look at someone like this and it's like no matter how much they might want to be viewed as an average person, their lives are so far divorced from normal that they don't know what average is, really -- is anyone worth $300 million ever going to have an average person experience?

Most people want to be left alone and not have people speculate about them don't make videos and aren't nearly in the limelight as much as she has been. And why make this video now? If you want to fade away, get your life back, become normal... why make a documentary about yourself? People make documentaries to either get attention, maintain attention, or modify how people think about them because they believe they will continue to be paid attention to.

The stuff mentioned about her DJ'ing so far in the thread sounds interesting and in general I'm all for that kind of thing in terms of perfecting one's abilities like the average person is expected to do... except it dropped early on that she commands $1 million dollars per DJ event. Seriously? TYPICAL DJs make $75-100 an hour depending on venue. Is her work really worth $1 million dollars a night, especially if she's learning? Maybe she's getting good now, but... $1 million? Does she grasp what it's like being an average person, or is she even being an average person by pursuing something she enjoys, if she is leveraging her name to get $1 million an event? No, she's still in the game of leveraging her name and self-marketing for profit. And moving in rich circles she has established for herself because of her name and past self-promotion... even while she is claiming to be unhappy and traumatized.

I think money can get in the way of self-actualization because it just makes too many things easy. You are walled off from the daily grind and daily problems that normal people experience, you can always find a way around them. You typically don't have to make hard sacrifices because money prevents you from needing to sacrifice. Maybe you have different problems (who to trust? what to invest in? making sure your money is not stolen?) but this is far different from people who live more in a day-to-day way. When you have no money or at least have to consider the financial implications of any decision you make on your happiness, well-being, health, and so on, it makes you face problems head on, know better what you want and need, etc. You're constantly needing to balance one thing against another, rather than carrying a tiny lapdog around with you and just floating from one thing to the next without having to really work out who you are and what you need.

I'm kind of interested to see what the point of the documentary is, but I'm also wondering if I will see anything that is any different from what happens with most people. Her sister Nicky came on, posed for the cameras in a manufactured position in a room larger than my downstairs, and used words in a way that made me laugh -- people just don't talk that way unless they are trying to sound smart or create a particular image.

I've got 90 more minutes to go, maybe something more will come to light.
 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
25,854
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Watched about 15 minutes so far... keep falling asleep in the middle of the day, it's kind of boring. But maybe I haven't reached anything interesting yet.

My first reactions aren't that charitable, I guess, and I am open to having them change, but I'll just be honest at the moment:

Maybe I am having a sharp reaction because despite being white collar and college-educated, I grew up in a very rural county surrounded by corn fields, my graduating class had 200 people in it at best, and most of them stayed local and never attended college and still live there. The Farm Show was the biggest event around. Even though I do decently well occupationally and income-wise, I own no stock and have no inheritance and have no family name. I just look at someone like this and it's like no matter how much they might want to be viewed as an average person, their lives are so far divorced from normal that they don't know what average is, really -- is anyone worth $300 million ever going to have an average person experience?

Most people want to be left alone and not have people speculate about them don't make videos and aren't nearly in the limelight as much as she has been. And why make this video now? If you want to fade away, get your life back, become normal... why make a documentary about yourself? People make documentaries to either get attention, maintain attention, or modify how people think about them because they believe they will continue to be paid attention to.

The stuff mentioned about her DJ'ing so far in the thread sounds interesting and in general I'm all for that kind of thing in terms of perfecting one's abilities like the average person is expected to do... except it dropped early on that she commands $1 million dollars per DJ event. Seriously? TYPICAL DJs make $75-100 an hour depending on venue. Is her work really worth $1 million dollars a night, especially if she's learning? Maybe she's getting good now, but... $1 million? Does she grasp what it's like being an average person, or is she even being an average person by pursuing something she enjoys, if she is leveraging her name to get $1 million an event? No, she's still in the game of leveraging her name and self-marketing for profit. And moving in rich circles she has established for herself because of her name and past self-promotion... even while she is claiming to be unhappy and traumatized.

I think money can get in the way of self-actualization because it just makes too many things easy. You are walled off from the daily grind and daily problems that normal people experience, you can always find a way around them. You typically don't have to make hard sacrifices because money prevents you from needing to sacrifice. Maybe you have different problems (who to trust? what to invest in? making sure your money is not stolen?) but this is far different from people who live more in a day-to-day way. When you have no money or at least have to consider the financial implications of any decision you make on your happiness, well-being, health, and so on, it makes you face problems head on, know better what you want and need, etc. You're constantly needing to balance one thing against another, rather than carrying a tiny lapdog around with you and just floating from one thing to the next without having to really work out who you are and what you need.

I'm kind of interested to see what the point of the documentary is, but I'm also wondering if I will see anything that is any different from what happens with most people. Her sister Nicky came on, posed for the cameras in a manufactured position in a room larger than my downstairs, and used words in a way that made me laugh -- people just don't talk that way unless they are trying to sound smart or create a particular image.

I've got 90 more minutes to go, maybe something more will come to light.

It gets better.

She said her parents weren't one of the ones that inherited a lot. I actually think she made that 300M herself. Grandpa Hilton bequeathed 97% of the family fortune to charity.

All that money hasn't made her any more happy. I doubt she is nearly as happy as you or I and she's trapped in a never ending spiral that I don't see her getting out of any time soon. It's kind of interesting and sad.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
47,342
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
She said her parents weren't one of the ones that inherited a lot. I actually think she made that 300M herself. Grandpa Hilton bequeathed 97% of the family fortune to charity.

I noted as much, I thought -- she did not get money when he disbursed his fortune, he only gave 3% to the family, passed the rest to the foundation, and she might not have gotten any.

I'm talking simply about her connections and her family name and whatever else that was leveraged to make that $300 million. Do you think she started on a level playing field like every other girl her age at the time? Do you think she would be drawing $1 million per DJ event if her name was not Paris Hilton?

There's this line from "The Edge" script by David Memet that sticks with me -- "Never feel bad for a man who owns a plane" or something to that effect. That money is such an advantage to free you up to focus on figuring out the rest of your life if you want to.

She's likely not happy, but she's also 40. We all had to make decisions, some of them very hard, to find happiness or at least contentment. I know many people with sad and even horrible stories about their past, but life doesn't give you a pass, you still deal have to face yourself in the mirror every day.

Maybe she's trying, so I'll see what happens in the rest of the presentation.
 

Jaguar

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
20,647
Damn, I thought the thread was going to be about The City of Lights.

 
Top