Silence is Pretentious

[SearchingforPeace]

For what it's worth, my ISFp mate regularly says, "I'm being quiet because whatever I say will just make things worse."

Well, when your primary motivations are comfort and harmony, then yes, addressing a conflict with your mate will create some discomfort, and it will temporarily disrupt harmony. That said, ISFp can't see the future very well and doesn't seem to realize that unaddressed conflict is likely to create even greater discomfort and even greater disharmony in the future. Either way, ISFp seems to be saying that its needs must come first--"sorry you're hurting, but I can't help you right now," is my ISFp's standard, irrational argument, and it is reflected by her behavior.

The retreat into silence in that case is the only way for her to deal. As I learned with my wife, some types need a very long processing time for feelings. Rushing it is very bad. Any short term response will be unproductive. I suspect if she gave you "I hear you, but give me some time to process this" it would help.

I suspect it is inherent in the Fi Se stack for your wife. Fi Se is focused on the now and often struggles with getting set in a mindview (tert Ni). Fi Ne can envision so much more and see a way to express things, though never as quickly as a ENFJ.....

 

[Kheledon]

The retreat into silence in that case is the only way for her to deal. As I learned with my wife, some types need a very long processing time for feelings. Rushing it is very bad. Any short term response will be unproductive. I suspect if she gave you "I hear you, but give me some time to process this" it would help.

I suspect it is inherent in the Fi Se stack for your wife. Fi Se is focused on the now and often struggles with getting set in a mindview (tert Ni). Fi Ne can envision so much more and see a way to express things, though never as quickly as a ENFJ.....

I think her program is SiFe. She feels the world (and me) with Fe, and that activates her Si (which desires comfort and harmony, above all else). She then avoids discomfort, but, I can assure you, with my ISFp, whatever subject I needed to discuss will never come back up. She doesn't want to "process" anything. She wants me to just get over whatever emotional pain I'm feeling and pretend that everything is fine. Eventually, I do exactly that--rationalize, find some way to blame myself, and then allow myself to trust her again. Then, everything is hunky-dory (until the next betrayal) because she's going to do what she wants to do (Alpha), and I can neither stop her nor hurt her nor teach her. In essence, her claim to desire time to "process" something is her way of saying, "This is your problem, not mine. Deal with it yourself."

 

[SearchingforPeace]

I think her program is SiFe. She feels the world (and me) with Fe, and that activates her Si (which desires comfort and harmony, above all else). She then avoids discomfort, but, I can assure you, with my ISFp, whatever subject I needed to discuss will never come back up. She doesn't want to "process" anything. She wants me to just get over whatever emotional pain I'm feeling and pretend that everything is fine. Eventually, I do exactly that--rationalize, find some way to blame myself, and then allow myself to trust her again. Then, everything is hunky-dory (until the next betrayal) because she's going to do what she wants to do (Alpha), and I can neither stop her nor hurt her nor teach her. In essence, her claim to desire time to "process" something is her way of saying, "This is your problem, not mine. Deal with it yourself."

I don't do socionics much..... and it is your problem. It really is. You care about it, not her, after all. ...Getting the validation you crave from someone unable to do so will prove impossible.....

 

[EcK]

Why is the whole forum pretentiously NOT participating in this thread?!!


I think you're reaching.

 

[Kheledon]

I don't do socionics much..... and it is your problem. It really is. You care about it, not her, after all. ...Getting the validation you crave from someone unable to do so will prove impossible.....

You're right, of course. I have to keep telling myself this over and over ... she will never change. I have to change. My ISFp and I have been together for 23 years, and I should know this by now. This is, indeed, my problem. That said, a supervisor/supervisee relationship is very difficult to escape from.

Socionics - the16types.info - Supervision-relations
Relations of Supervision between psychological ("personality") types

Supervision is a trap, and it has already cost me dearly, and it will probably continue to do so.

"These relationships are dangerous by the fact that unlike conflict relations, it is very difficult to break them, but their effects on the person can be deleterious."

"Another version of the asymmetrical relationship. For Revisee they are of a very unpleasant character. Revisee reacts to the slightest move of his Revisor. At the same time, the Revisor usually has no idea about such a strong effect of his behavior. For Revisee these relations are perhaps even more painful than, for example, the relations of conflict."

 

[SearchingforPeace]

You're right, of course. I have to keep telling myself this over and over ... she will never change. I have to change. My ISFp and I have been together for 23 years, and I should know this by now. This is, indeed, my problem. That said, a supervisor/supervisee relationship is very difficult to escape from.

Socionics - the16types.info - Supervision-relations
Relations of Supervision between psychological ("personality") types

Supervision is a trap, and it has already cost me dearly, and it will probably continue to do so.

The key is self-love. You are valuable. You are worthy. You don't really external validation. Once you find and own your core, once you care about yourself enough to actually secure your own needs, you will be healthy. There is freedom in this path. Is it damn hard? Yes. Does it feel wrong? Yes.

You can only really love others as much as you love yourself. So, by increasing self-love, you can actually love others in a manner that is far better than you can now. You will no longer be half a person looking for someone to "complete" you. Instead, you will be a whole person wanting a partner enjoy life with and grow together as two complete persons.

 

[Kheledon]

The key is self-love. You are valuable. You are worthy. You don't really external validation. Once you find and own your core, once you care about yourself enough to actually secure your own needs, you will be healthy. There is freedom in this path. Is it damn hard? Yes. Does it feel wrong? Yes.

You can only really love others as much as you love yourself. So, by increasing self-love, you can actually love others in a manner that is far better than you can now. You will no longer be half a person looking for someone to "complete" you. Instead, you will be a whole person wanting a partner enjoy life with and grow together as two complete persons.

Beautifully said, and I can not disagree. Whether I have the willpower to do what I need to do is another question altogether. EIE is notoriously weak-willed.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Sometimes it's better to think before speaking. This thinking before speaking process takes longer for some people than for others, which might lead to some perceptions of certain people as pretentious assholes when they may just be refraining from speaking because they haven't had a chance to fully collect, analyze and process their thoughts in a way that can be communicated clearly via verbal means.

Reminds me of the Tao... "he who knows does not speak. He who speaks does not know."

 

[Kheledon]

Sometimes it's better to think before speaking. This thinking before speaking process takes longer for some people than for others, which might lead to some perceptions of certain people as pretentious assholes when they may just be refraining from speaking because they haven't had a chance to fully collect, analyze and process their thoughts in a way that can be communicated clearly via verbal means.

Reminds me of the Tao... "he who knows does not speak. He who speaks does not know."

This is a serious problem for me. I often speak without thinking. I am genuine. I value honesty and openness, and I am not ashamed of my program function (FeNi), so I say what's on my mind (genuinely, openly, and honestly in a way that can be very abrasive, but quite clear). This can be terribly off-putting to a large percentage of the population.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

This is a serious problem for me. I often speak without thinking. I am genuine. I value honesty and openness, and I am not ashamed of my program function (FeNi), so I say what's on my mind (genuinely, openly, and honestly in a way that can be very abrasive, but quite clear). This can be terribly off-putting to a large percentage of the population.

I think it's different with extraverted individuals. They often seem to form their thoughts as they speak. It seems like the act of talking to others about a subject will often spur them into thinking mode. In a sense, they are thinking aloud, using the verbal discourse as a way to refine their own thoughts. Not to say introverts can't or don't do this, or that extraverts aren't capable of forming thoughts outside of a public, verbal forum.

It's wrong of me to assume or expect all people should take my approach, as that approach may be stifling or counter-productive to some people.

 

[Lia_kat]

Sometimes it's better to think before speaking. This thinking before speaking process takes longer for some people than for others, which might lead to some perceptions of certain people as pretentious assholes when they may just be refraining from speaking because they haven't had a chance to fully collect, analyze and process their thoughts in a way that can be communicated clearly via verbal means.

Reminds me of the Tao... "he who knows does not speak. He who speaks does not know."

Agreed. This resonates with me. Silence is introspection, a way to analyze my thoughts before speaking. I try to gather my words and say things that are valuable instead of just talking to fill the void or because it's uncomfortable. Or rather because I don't have anything to say. Comfortable silences are great. Some people find this pretentious but I think it's ignorance on their part.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Agreed. This resonates with me. Silence is introspection, a way to analyze my thoughts before speaking. I try to gather my words and say things that are valuable instead of just talking to fill the void or because it's uncomfortable. Or rather because I don't have anything to say. Comfortable silences are great. Some people find this pretentious but I think it's ignorance on their part.

I also find myself having a lot of internal debates, either with myself, or with another person as the conversation proceeds in my head. Do you ever do this?

It helps me refine my opinions, see differing perspectives, and prepare me for potential real verbal debates and discussions over a topic, as opposed to rushing into it with no preparation.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

I also find myself having a lot of internal debates, either with myself, or with another person as the conversation proceeds in my head. Do you ever do this?

It helps me refine my opinions, see differing perspectives, and prepare me for potential real verbal debates and discussions over a topic, as opposed to rushing into it with no preparation.

I do this a bunch. But I often doing speaking out loud, even, which is odd, so I do it in places where I will not be overheard, lol. By verbalizing the ideas, I suddenly know what I actually think about it and I hear how it sounds, thereby allowing by brain to process it again.

I really don't like going Ti, so verbalizing it keeps it very Fe (or writing it out, of course)

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I do this a bunch. But I often doing speaking out loud, even, which is odd, so I do it in places where I will not be overheard, lol. By verbalizing the ideas, I suddenly know what I actually think about it and I hear how it sounds, thereby allowing by brain to process it again.

I really don't like going Ti, so verbalizing it keeps it very Fe (or writing it out, of course)

I find it fascinating how Je and Ji function very differently, yet often with the same goal or outcome in mind.

 

[Lia_kat]

I also find myself having a lot of internal debates, either with myself, or with another person as the conversation proceeds in my head. Do you ever do this?

It helps me refine my opinions, see differing perspectives, and prepare me for potential real verbal debates and discussions over a topic, as opposed to rushing into it with no preparation.

Yes, I do this all the time. But if it's with a person I'm really comfortable speaking to, I'll also do it out loud.

 

[Kanra Jest]

I only remain silent when they refuse to listen. Putting their wall up, keep trying to argue and won't listen to my side. It means they won't listen to logic, and if they won't listen to that then I got nothing to say.

I also play conversations over in my head before it happens, or theoretical what if's. To be prepared.

 

[Cloudpatrol]

The stoic as closest narcissist? Is your quiet friend really a douche bag?

Eros is the opposite of death and silence most often is a form of communication which when overused causes prolific harm. On the shitter at work I beseech you to discuss this matter so my bathroom breaks are entertaining.

This query makes me think of music. Both the notes and silence are equally imperative and can enhance the other.

Sometimes grace notes can make the silence more poignantly enjoyable (i.e. a poster's suggestion to say "I need time to process this and then I will reply").

I do think that silence can be affected (perhaps even pretentious) at times. I had a friend who was perceived by our group as the 'shyest person anyone had ever met'. After being romantically involved and getting to know him more intimately I realized that his silence was often a matter of control.

Due to his upbringing he did not feel comfortable overtly seeking attention. However, by being noticeably silent he often ended up being the topic of conversation and was more discussed & included than other - slightly more vocal friends. His opinions and (truly) humorous insights were often actively sought because he did not give them freely.

 

[EcK]

Using the word 'real' to describe retarded behavior is pretentious?

 

[Mole]

This query makes me think of music. Both the notes and silence are equally imperative and can enhance the other.

Sometimes grace notes can make the silence more poignantly enjoyable (i.e. a poster's suggestion to say "I need time to process this and then I will reply").

I do think that silence can be affected (perhaps even pretentious) at times. I had a friend who was perceived by our group as the 'shyest person anyone had ever met'. After being romantically involved and getting to know him more intimately I realized that his silence was often a matter of control.

Due to his upbringing he did not feel comfortable overtly seeking attention. However, by being noticeably silent he often ended up being the topic of conversation and was more discussed & included than other - slightly more vocal friends. His opinions and (truly) humorous insights were often actively sought because he did not give them freely.

The silence of my ego, of my critical mind, my prefrontal cortex, is terrifying because I rely on my ego for control, to control my superego: my ideals, and commandments, and to control my id: my pleasure, my wants and desires.

So when my ego is silent, I feel a sharp fear, I don't know what to do, I feel I am drowning. But then something magical happens: I flip over and my unconscious comes out to play.

Fortunately I had a happy childhood so there are no demons in my unconscious, time disappears and I become completely absorbed in what I am doing.

And when I have had my fill of play, my conscious mind clicks in and carries me out into the world.

 

[1487610420]

I like the silence, particularly if/when surrounded by self-absorbed loud ppl/noisy environment