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Random Politics Thread

Totenkindly

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...Im not saying that fascistic authoritarians wouldnt cheat if they had to, I'm just questioning if they did, how hard did they really have to try? If they did...Didnt we make it awful easy for them to do?

I honestly don't know. But it's been keeping me up at night.
Yeah, there's that question too: "Did they actually need to cheat on election day to win?"


I've been avoiding most of the news scrolls. I'm tired of hearing Dems bicker about who is to blame, pointing fingers at Biden for running at all, or at Harris for "stealing Biden's place," or whatever stupid other armchair quarterbacking is occurring. I'm hoping they get it out of their systems shortly.
 
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This is exactly why I started this entire line of thoughts and posts. Yeah it is probably bad, but this almost surely isn't the actual end of the world. I already live life under the administration made out of conservatives and people who are evidently nationalists. However that isn't really the end of the world. There are problem, some are even getting solved, some people are doing plenty of protesting ... but the sum just isn't "end of the world".
It's not the end of the world, but I think preparation of various kinds is still needed.
 
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I'm much more bothered by the concept of them hacking vote tabulation systems to deliver a result like this then the idea that this many people voted for him willingly. I don't know why people are reassured by that. If the votes were hacked like that, it means it's impossible to win, and the current rules of the game are dead.

In the other scenario, it's possible to win if different tactics are tried, perhaps.In the abstract, I think people are terrible. so the result doesn't surprise me. I frequently like individual people I meet, but.... I don't trust them acting in a mass, as part of a crowd or group.
 

Totenkindly

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I don't think you can compare other country dynamics to the dynamics within the United States, even if some of the groups are superficially similar, especially in light of the two-party system versus a more coalition government. It will remain to be seen, but some people are gonna be pretty fubar by this development.

As I mentioned yesterday in my blog, I fortunately fit the requirements for an online passport renewal and got it in yesterday -- so hopefully I'll have it in hand if things go badly for people in my situation. As said, preparations are still needed. You'd rather have options on the table, if things sour.

Today I have started to consider how I am going to respond if I am required to sign a loyalty oath to our New Fearless Leader as an employee of fedgov. Obviously you all know my actual feelings about this, but there's something to be said about being a quiet resistance and/or still having access to fight from within -- I still care about the citizens I have been assisting with my technical skills over the years. I have no idea if this will occur for my particular agency or what kind of "loyalty" this would mean, aside from them just giving themselves an easy way to have people leave voluntarily or fire people who do not comply with an agreement in some way. I also have no other financial partner to depend on; I am alone.
 
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I don't think you can compare other country dynamics to the dynamics within the United States, even if some of the groups are superficially similar, especially in light of the two-party system versus a more coalition government. It will remain to be seen, but some people are gonna be pretty fubar by this development.
I'm influenced by my online experiences, really, rather than assuming they're like Republicans.
 

The Cat

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I don't think you can compare other country dynamics to the dynamics within the United States, even if some of the groups are superficially similar, especially in light of the two-party system versus a more coalition government. It will remain to be seen, but some people are gonna be pretty fubar by this development.

As I mentioned yesterday in my blog, I fortunately fit the requirements for an online passport renewal and got it in yesterday -- so hopefully I'll have it in hand if things go badly for people in my situation. As said, preparations are still needed. You'd rather have options on the table, if things sour.

Today I have started to consider how I am going to respond if I am required to sign a loyalty oath to our New Fearless Leader as an employee of fedgov. Obviously you all know my actual feelings about this, but there's something to be said about being a quiet resistance and/or still having access to fight from within -- I still care about the citizens I have been assisting with my technical skills over the years. I have no idea if this will occur for my particular agency or what kind of "loyalty" this would mean, aside from them just giving themselves an easy way to have people leave voluntarily or fire people who do not comply with an agreement in some way. I also have no other financial partner to depend on; I am alone.
Wear a red hat if you have to. I think of Beau's Rule 303 can apply to this sort of thing. People are gonna need more help than ever. And if all the good people just fuck off because of ideological purity concerns...we're really damned.

So I say keep a bug out bag ready, but it's super cool of you to be considering that it would likely be a thankless but vital cover to keep. Im really hoping more of our sports team fans get on board with that kind of team spirit.
 
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I just scheduled my application for a new passport (my old, expired one was issued more than 15 years ago). Now I need to get all my ducks in a row over the coming week. I suppose I should get as most of those in order now as I can, so I understand the full process and anything that might take longer to do.

Hopefully, they don't bail on me like last time.
 
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Coriolis

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One more thing for the night:

Regarding Dick Cheney and anyone else associated with that administration, and why I don't care about them seeing the light about Trump: This world, the one we live in right now, is the world they built.

At a bare minimum, this division, this lack of social trust, this lack of trust in institutions? They created that, with their deceptions, with their use of the organs of the government to reshape the truth, with their blatant contempt for any objection to their agenda. We are reaping the rewards of that public service.

The idea that we should be impressed by Bush or Cheney or anybody else from the GOP of the aughts coming out against Trump is uproariously funny to me. This is their work! They had a totalitarian aspect to their stewardship, too. Did they think their philosophy of governance would not have any negative effects downstream? They walked so Trump could run.
Well, sure. Would we rather the likes of Bush and Cheney Sr dig their heels in and insist it is all a good thing, or recognize and admit that perhaps this wasn't really what they were trying to achieve, that Trump and his followers pushed it all off the rails? It may be too little, too late to effect change right now, but clinging to illusions or willful ignorance helps no one.
 
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Well, sure. Would we rather the likes of Bush and Cheney Sr dig their heels in and insist it is all a good thing, or recognize and admit that perhaps this wasn't really what they were trying to achieve, that Trump and his followers pushed it all off the rails? It may be too little, too late to effect change right now, but clinging to illusions or willful ignorance helps no one.
Did it matter in the end? What they think is irrelevant to me.
 

Totenkindly

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Wear a red hat if you have to. I think of Beau's Rule 303 can apply to this sort of thing. People are gonna need more help than ever. And if all the good people just fuck off because of ideological purity concerns...we're really damned.

So I say keep a bug out bag ready, but it's super cool of you to be considering that it would likely be a thankless but vital cover to keep. Im really hoping more of our sports team fans get on board with that kind of team spirit.
I don't know if there are 'right answers,' there are just suitable ones. Some people can bear up under one situation, others under a different choice, but we can still all be fighting for the same end purpose.

I hate hate hate having to put a resume together but I'm going to have to start working on that too.... part of my particular bug-out bag in case things go wrong. I am also trying to have an attitude of not looking at any outcome as the end of my world but simply a change in circumstance that I should try to make the best of. For awhile my plan has simply been to keep doing what I've been doing and eventually retiring from fedgov sometime in the late 2030's after a few decades of helping people get the money they need in order to exist. I even made it through the first term, despite each day just being emotionally a trudge, remaining on staff. It just feels overwhelming and if I do stay and make it through, it'll definitely be one of those "one day at a time" experiences.
 

Coriolis

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With all due respect but you guys are starting to overthink this.


First of all the score in the house is currently at 216 R vs 208 D, while 218 gives you the control. Therefore as it looks on seat by seat basis Republicans will have even more slim majority than they had. Which was already razor thin. What evidently means that there is no MAGA majority for the most crazy stuff.

Kinda the same is with the senate where should be 53 out of 100 majority. What is simply too thin for ultra radical changes, especially due to establishment republicans that are still in the mix. Therefore this will probably flip back in 2026. Especially if Trump masses up, what is evidently possible.

US could actually use some sorting out when it comes to street crime and pointless spending.

Some ultra large changes in foreign policy also aren't possible, especially not over the night. In other words there are plenty of industries that are fully reliant on the policy as it is now. Not to mention that many of these are in the red states. So all the changes will have to be gradual if he doesn't want blue tsunami in 2026.


The real question should be more like: can either party keep the top position of US in the world? That one is actually much bigger enigma. But when it comes to these elections in particular I think you are kinda overthinking all of this.
Many of us do need to think ahead enough to plan for possible contingencies that could affect us badly. We should not act precipitously in the moment, but consider what might happen, how we would respond, and start lining up the necessary resources in case a response becomes necessary. Most in jeopardy are heath care for certain segments of the population, legal protections enabling people to remain employed or have their family unit recognized, and the historical record. This last may seem hyperbolic, but some states have already began limiting the teaching of U.S. history regarding slavery, whitewashing what actually happened during those years.

A significant danger once Biden is out of office, is that there will simply be a lack of enforcement of existing protective laws. For example: in the days after the election, a spate of text messages were sent to black people, including many students as young as middle school, ordering them to report to buses in their area that would take them to work on some southern plantation as slaves. The FBI and other law enforcement are investigating this as the harassment and threat that it is. I would imagine once Trump is president again, the response might be: "Come now, surely you didn't take that seriously? It's just a harmless prank. Ignore it." Now extend this across the range of hostile acts or common crimes people might experience. Law enforcement might be quicker to respond and take seriously reports from certain groups than others. Or even other emergency responders like paramedics. Witness the response to Hurricane Maria that devastated Puerto Rico when Trump was president before, vs. the recent response to Helene and Milton.

We can hope for the best, or at least not so bad, but need to be prepared for the worst.
There is something fishy about this election. The fact that democrats were seeing record registrations and yet she still underperformed Biden. The way Trump was smugly saying it didn’t matter and he would win no matter what. I think the right found a way to put their finger on the scales and there should be investigations, otherwise it’s going to keep happening.

I think the Dems kind of shot themselves in the feet by repeatedly saying that our elections are fair, because now it will look bad if they call for any investigations.

My gut is telling me a lot of shenanigans happened. With republicans in power, they will likely bury or destroy any evidence of wrongdoings on their part.
I was half hoping the Harris campaign would mount the same sort of "stop the steal" movement Trump pulled the last time. The desire not to stoop to their level competes with wanting to give them a taste of their own medicine. Given the concerted efforts at voter suppression in key swing states, they might actually have a better case than Trump ever did. He complained about fraud even when he won before. Now that's a sore winner.

I don't think you can compare other country dynamics to the dynamics within the United States, even if some of the groups are superficially similar, especially in light of the two-party system versus a more coalition government. It will remain to be seen, but some people are gonna be pretty fubar by this development.

As I mentioned yesterday in my blog, I fortunately fit the requirements for an online passport renewal and got it in yesterday -- so hopefully I'll have it in hand if things go badly for people in my situation. As said, preparations are still needed. You'd rather have options on the table, if things sour.

Today I have started to consider how I am going to respond if I am required to sign a loyalty oath to our New Fearless Leader as an employee of fedgov. Obviously you all know my actual feelings about this, but there's something to be said about being a quiet resistance and/or still having access to fight from within -- I still care about the citizens I have been assisting with my technical skills over the years. I have no idea if this will occur for my particular agency or what kind of "loyalty" this would mean, aside from them just giving themselves an easy way to have people leave voluntarily or fire people who do not comply with an agreement in some way. I also have no other financial partner to depend on; I am alone.
This is why I am glad I work for a contractor now, not back with the government. As a private company, requirements on the federal workforce don't apply, at least not directly. I was hired into a position that requires significant experience and highly specialized expertise, and they had been trying to fill for close to a year. Of course, Americans do have a great propensity for shooting themselves in the foot.
 

Coriolis

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Did it matter in the end? What they think is irrelevant to me.
Depends on where the end is. Every person who comes to recognize the harm and folly of supporting either Trump, or the policies that led to his appeal, is progress. Put another way: until a sufficient number do, nothing will change.
 
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There is something fishy about this election. The fact that democrats were seeing record registrations and yet she still underperformed Biden. The way Trump was smugly saying it didn’t matter and he would win no matter what. I think the right found a way to put their finger on the scales and there should be investigations, otherwise it’s going to keep happening.

I think the Dems kind of shot themselves in the feet by repeatedly saying that our elections are fair, because now it will look bad if they call for any investigations.

My gut is telling me a lot of shenanigans happened. With republicans in power, they will likely bury or destroy any evidence of wrongdoings on their part.
Maybe they just registered to vote for Trump.
 

Red Herring

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I am not trying to entice anyone to throw in the towel prematurely or abandom their home on a whim....but just wanted to make it known that many European countries are actively looking for skilled migrants, including programmers and other people in IT. Many of those countries also have progressive laws on LGBTQ and trans issues (Germany for example legally recognizes three genders in all government paperwork and recently passed new legislation to make name and legal gender changes easier). Wages tend to be a bit lower in Europe than in the US but so ist cost of living. Add to that higher food quality standards, lower crime rate, affordable healthcare and sometimes free education plus better working conditions and labor laws. This place is far from perfect and has its issues but as far as places of refuge go when things come to worst one could do worse than this.

But Canada is also cool, I guess
 

Virtual ghost

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Many of us do need to think ahead enough to plan for possible contingencies that could affect us badly. We should not act precipitously in the moment, but consider what might happen, how we would respond, and start lining up the necessary resources in case a response becomes necessary. Most in jeopardy are heath care for certain segments of the population, legal protections enabling people to remain employed or have their family unit recognized, and the historical record. This last may seem hyperbolic, but some states have already began limiting the teaching of U.S. history regarding slavery, whitewashing what actually happened during those years.

A significant danger once Biden is out of office, is that there will simply be a lack of enforcement of existing protective laws. For example: in the days after the election, a spate of text messages were sent to black people, including many students as young as middle school, ordering them to report to buses in their area that would take them to work on some southern plantation as slaves. The FBI and other law enforcement are investigating this as the harassment and threat that it is. I would imagine once Trump is president again, the response might be: "Come now, surely you didn't take that seriously? It's just a harmless prank. Ignore it." Now extend this across the range of hostile acts or common crimes people might experience. Law enforcement might be quicker to respond and take seriously reports from certain groups than others. Or even other emergency responders like paramedics. Witness the response to Hurricane Maria that devastated Puerto Rico when Trump was president before, vs. the recent response to Helene and Milton.

We can hope for the best, or at least not so bad, but need to be prepared for the worst.


I fully understand all of that. I really do.
However about what I am actually concerned can be summed as "self fulfilling prophecies". Panic creates panic.
 
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I am not trying to entice anyone to throw in the towel prematurely or abandom their home on a whim....but just wanted to make it known that many European countries are actively looking for skilled migrants, including programmers and other people in IT. Many of those countries also have progressive laws on LGBTQ and trans issues (Germany for example legally recognizes three genders in all government paperwork and recently passed new legislation to make name and legal gender changes easier). Wages tend to be a bit lower in Europe than in the US but so ist cost of living. Add to that higher food quality standards, lower crime rate, affordable healthcare and sometimes free education plus better working conditions and labor laws. This place is far from perfect and has its issues but as far as places of refuge go when things come to worst one could do worse than this.

But Canada is also cool, I guess

I appreciate this. I read recently, however, something about snap elections in Germany that could favor the AfD. I would not want to relocate just to be stuck in the same situation. I certainly would not want to be an immigrant if anti-immigrant parties will dominate. These trends tend to happen globally, so it could happen.
 

Virtual ghost

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I am not trying to entice anyone to throw in the towel prematurely or abandom their home on a whim....but just wanted to make it known that many European countries are actively looking for skilled migrants, including programmers and other people in IT. Many of those countries also have progressive laws on LGBTQ and trans issues (Germany for example legally recognizes three genders in all government paperwork and recently passed new legislation to make name and legal gender changes easier). Wages tend to be a bit lower in Europe than in the US but so ist cost of living. Add to that higher food quality standards, lower crime rate, affordable healthcare and sometimes free education plus better working conditions and labor laws. This place is far from perfect and has its issues but as far as places of refuge go when things come to worst one could do worse than this.

But Canada is also cool, I guess

Actually we already had this conversation here (a few months ago).

But yeah, Europe is pretty open these days for extra labor. After all during last Trump's presidency there was a wave of people moving to Europe. Therefore if things get too bad Western Europe is fairly good choice.
 
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Actually we already had this conversation here (a few months ago).

But yeah, Europe is pretty open these days for extra labor. After all during last Trump's presidency there was a wave of people moving to Europe. Therefore if things get too bad Western Europe is fairly good choice.
Again, what about the possibility of a far right victory like we had here that, to me, seems poised to happen?
 
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Depends on where the end is. Every person who comes to recognize the harm and folly of supporting either Trump, or the policies that led to his appeal, is progress. Put another way: until a sufficient number do, nothing will change.
This response is logical, but my emotional reaction takes over in this instance.

I'm not quite sure what the best way to say this, but this is my attempt:

I'm disturbed by the eagerness of Americans to forget about what happened in the first decade of the millennium, especially because they barely acknowledge it to begin with. I suspect part of the indifference is due to the fact that it mostly affected foreigners, and not Americans. (It also created a refugee crisis in Europe that fueled the rise of far-right politics). The attempt to rehabilitate members of the Bush administration by liberals is yet another example of this. These are supposed to be the good guys, and they are basically telling me none of that mattered.

Everyone likes to think that in a totalitarian government that they would be the ones who would act heroically. They wouldn't just go through the motions. And they certainly would never enthusiastically support it. Knowing how little Americans care about Iraq after it was freed due to American beneficence and generosity, I severely doubt that most Americans would act heroically, and this factors into my thinking now as well.

It is extremely difficult for me to emotionally separate the crimes the Bush administration did from the ones the Trump administration did and will do. The appetite for one shows an appetite for the other.
 
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