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question about males

prplchknz

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what is it with men letting everything fall apart healthwise until it's a crisis?

I realize not all men do this, but I've know quite a few who do this I can think of 3 off the top of my head: my dad, my friend's dad, and her boyfriend
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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what is it with men letting everything fall apart healthwise until it's a crisis?

I realize not all men do this, but I've know quite a few who do this I can think of 3 off the top of my head: my dad, my friend's dad, and her boyfriend

Could you be more specific? What kinds of crises? I try and go on walks three times a week, for instance.
 

prplchknz

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Could you be more specific? What kinds of crises? I try and go on walks three times a week, for instance.

then this doesn't apply to you, so I doubt you'd have an answer.

like having an infected toe to the point it needs to be amputated.
 

Earl Grey

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A manifestation of a form of acceptable stupidity let rampage unhampered 'til it's too late.

Starting from 'toughen up and don't cry' ending in 'death by shrugging off bullet wound in careless game of Russian roulette'
 

Lark

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what is it with men letting everything fall apart healthwise until it's a crisis?

I realize not all men do this, but I've know quite a few who do this I can think of 3 off the top of my head: my dad, my friend's dad, and her boyfriend

Well, I developed diabetes and a more serious health crisis largely because of conscientious concern for duty, providing and protectiveness of others which had been taken, by myself, to a fault.

Which is to say I did not prioritize it as I should have. Plus I trusted others to do so. They did not.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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then this doesn't apply to you, so I doubt you'd have an answer.

like having an infected toe to the point it needs to be amputated.

I think it might be related to weight and that men don't feel anywhere near the same level of pressure to monitor weight. This translates to other health issues.

That's my theory, anyway.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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For some people could it be a struggle to admit they aren't in control or have a vulnerability? It seems like a weakness to admit they are sick or in pain and they can't make it go away themselves?
 

ceecee

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what is it with men letting everything fall apart healthwise until it's a crisis?

I realize not all men do this, but I've know quite a few who do this I can think of 3 off the top of my head: my dad, my friend's dad, and her boyfriend

Distorted thinking about masculinity, vulnerability and probably some denial and stupidity as well. Every man that I've encountered with this type of thinking, eventually regret it without exception.
 

The Cat

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Don't be a wussy. Clutch your chest and die like a man. °_° Yes angry voice of my father in my head.
 

Indigo Rodent

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what is it with men letting everything fall apart healthwise until it's a crisis?

I realize not all men do this, but I've know quite a few who do this I can think of 3 off the top of my head: my dad, my friend's dad, and her boyfriend
Toxic genderisms. Either that or being afraid of doctors.
 

Yuurei

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A manifestation of a form of acceptable stupidity let rampage unhampered 'til it's too late.

Starting from 'toughen up and don't cry' ending in 'death by shrugging off bullet wound in careless game of Russian roulette'

Yep, I am not male but I am in this way, I think I am worse than most.

Really, I view most men as “ total pussies” when the go on about “ men aren’t allowed to cry” and I think ” Bitch pls, you have no idea.”

I know exactly where it came from and why but it’s a lot of unpacking and I don’t feel like doin* it here.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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Attention Required!

http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/gl...deterrence_incapaci tation_and_vengeance.pdf

Intrasexual Competition Shapes Men’s Anti-Utilitarian Moral Decisions | SpringerLink

Attention Required!

Be Worried About Boys, Especially Baby Boys | Psychology Today


We train men to be heroism conscious rather than health conscious. Following from that, it is less heroic to focus on their personal health than it is to focus on others' health. I think this is likely a holdover from our early human ancestors. Living on the edge of survival and oblivion, it made sense to put greater importance on the survival of women and the young. Whereas roles filled by males in those times would've been much easier to fill quickly when males grew sick or died.

Class and income likely also play a part. Probably won't see as many wealthy men ignoring their health. In a poor household, it probably makes more sense to focus limited financial resources on children and wives' healthcare needs. Also the prolonged stress of taking care of a poor family is going to take a great toll on either parent's health, but especially the primary earner.
 
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Lexicon

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As others have said- our society discourages men to expose vulnerabilities, be they emotional or physical. Seeking help, even in the form of legitimate medical intervention, is considered weak.

I have male friends that do this. I think it pays to actually tell them, it’s okay to get checked out. Waiting til it reaches critical mass is stupid.
 

Coriolis

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Yep, I am not male but I am in this way, I think I am worse than most.

Really, I view most men as “ total pussies” when the go on about “ men aren’t allowed to cry” and I think ” Bitch pls, you have no idea.”

I know exactly where it came from and why but it’s a lot of unpacking and I don’t feel like doin* it here.
Same here, and I really don't know where it came from, other than just some innate tendency. I'm not too bad about addressing physical needs, but the rest are usually not even on the radar.
 

Indigo Rodent

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Yep, I am not male but I am in this way, I think I am worse than most.

Really, I view most men as “ total pussies” when the go on about “ men aren’t allowed to cry” and I think ” Bitch pls, you have no idea.”

I know exactly where it came from and why but it’s a lot of unpacking and I don’t feel like doin* it here.
It may be a case of ExTJs being ExTJs. My mother also seems to have somewhat but she seems to be an ISFJ. I guess it's a Judger thing.
 

Earl Grey

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Yep, I am not male but I am in this way, I think I am worse than most.

Really, I view most men as “ total pussies” when the go on about “ men aren’t allowed to cry” and I think ” Bitch pls, you have no idea.”

I know exactly where it came from and why but it’s a lot of unpacking and I don’t feel like doin* it here.

That's a different issue, on the level of the individual themselves. A problem however is the taking away of options for those who want to do otherwise (by forcing people into a narrow box of a form of 'acceptable masculinity') instead of using it as a 'free to wallow' card- sides, folks who want to do the latter will do it regardless, just perhaps in quieter and more insidious ways.

Something a bit funny and interesting, though. I've always hated these kinds of 'gender roles' even before I knew of the term, ever since I was a child. I hated being told what to do or how to do it and being told off for, for example, liking things that were 'feminine', or displaying fear. My counter for that is always this, and it turns the argument back on the person and really only makes sense- and I wonder HOW on earth people don't realize this? That if you really want me to be masculine, traits of being so include being independent and having a say in how you conduct your business without cowing into pressure. That is exactly what I am doing. Now leave me and my baking project alone before I brutalize you with a moldy baguette.
 

Yuurei

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That's a different issue, on the level of the individual themselves. A problem however is the taking away of options for those who want to do otherwise (by forcing people into a narrow box of a form of 'acceptable masculinity') instead of using it as a 'free to wallow' card- sides, folks who want to do the latter will do it regardless, just perhaps in quieter and more insidious ways.

Something a bit funny and interesting, though. I've always hated these kinds of 'gender roles' even before I knew of the term, ever since I was a child. I hated being told what to do or how to do it and being told off for, for example, liking things that were 'feminine', or displaying fear. My counter for that is always this, and it turns the argument back on the person and really only makes sense- and I wonder HOW on earth people don't realize this? That if you really want me to be masculine, traits of being so include being independent and having a say in how you conduct your business without cowing into pressure. That is exactly what I am doing. Now leave me and my baking project alone before I brutalize you with a moldy baguette.

It’s a choice if you’re female but not male? No, it can still be forced on you without it being gender-based.

I’ve had enough of roles in general. I’ve always gotten mixed messages, pulled this way and that depending on which label was being applied.
“ I don’t care if this medicine/treatment makes you sick as hell/hurts. Fucking deal with it and no crying.” and on the other end “ Here’s a pink diary. You should write some brave poetry about it.”
No, no. I don’t want to do either.

It may be a case of ExTJs being ExTJs. My mother also seems to have somewhat but she seems to be an ISFJ. I guess it's a Judger thing.

No, it has nothing at all to do with me being an ENTJ.


I’m sure it’s the area and particular demographic of men that I know, but honestly, I have known many more sensitive and emotional men that women. ( and spare me that “ not all men” crap. I am aware. It’s why I’ve used multiple qualifiers.

Fun fact: whining about not being allowed to whine is whining.
 

Earl Grey

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It’s a choice if you’re female but not male? No, it can still be forced on you without it being gender-based.

No, I said nothing of the sort. I did say individuals in general, but it seems to be more widely forced on one gender over the other.


I’ve had enough of roles in general. I’ve always gotten mixed messages, pulled this way and that depending on which label was being applied.
“ I don’t care if this medicine/treatment makes you sick as hell/hurts. Fucking deal with it and no crying.” and on the other end “ Here’s a pink diary. You should write some brave poetry about it.”
No, no. I don’t want to do either.

A remedy for this is filtering things without regard to gender, agreeing only if it suits you, and works for you. I'd hate being encouraged to cry, but that's just who I am as a person, not because I am male- the key is if I am 'allowed' to it assumes a level of respect and regard for me and my comfort and autonomy as a person, whereas if I am not allowed it assumes otherwise, an irritating degree of presumptuous control and even disrespect. I'd prefer being treated with the former than the latter, even if I may not listen or take up the offer.

Personally, I wouldn't advise, or force anyone to cry, say, if they don't want to- man or woman. I would however NOT tell them to just suck it up, because serious illnesses and injuries should be taken seriously regardless of what kind of genitals you have.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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Yep, I am not male but I am in this way, I think I am worse than most.

Really, I view most men as “ total pussies” when the go on about “ men aren’t allowed to cry” and I think ” Bitch pls, you have no idea.”

I know exactly where it came from and why but it’s a lot of unpacking and I don’t feel like doin* it here.

Same here, and I really don't know where it came from, other than just some innate tendency. I'm not too bad about addressing physical needs, but the rest are usually not even on the radar.

I have an inclination this way (probably different in application and specifics to both of the above quotes) and it is because I grew up with a single mother, no father figure, and my brother had some intense vulnerabilities that caused concern and support. Also we were poor and didn't have medical insurance, so just dealing with stuff is how I grew up. I've ended up in relationships with men who have all been more fragile physically. I tolerate a lot of pain and it's hard to ask for help - partly because there are always consequences I don't like. Examples like usually moving my stuff alone, not going to the doctor when bitten by a black widow with painful toxin experience, not insisting on having pain diagnosed, doing the heavy lifting when others won't, and some other things not worth sharing here.

For me it isn't society pressuring me to be tough, but more not trusting other people, expecting dismissal, realizing it's just simpler to do it myself, and having shit insurance that will cost me a lot of lab fees. My mother has intense medication and doctor aversion, and I haven't thought through how that affects me, but I think it does.
 
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