Our first disagreement sfP, how exciting (grins widely)!
As I recently posted, conflict is the key to relationship growth.
Actually in some ways I think we may feel the same things just in different permutations.
As I said, the difference between Fe and Fi love.
ie.
For me, getting in tune with myself and developing internal love is growth and maturity. Of course! I was referring specifically to the process of choosing a companion. How could self-reflection be anything but a mature endeavour
It is about developing self love and getting in tune with internal typd of love that I can experience through others. It is a very different experience for me than interpersonal love. I hear you. I don't think that one negates the other.
In receiving your feedback it helps me to see that I stated my thoughts inelegantly (perhaps even insultingly? eeeeep!). Developing that inner self-knowledge and love is valuable and especially if it feeds one's inherent processes. It STILL needs to find practical function as you said "
experience(d)
through others". That familiar experience is imperative when considering a union initially.
Let me elaborate on the Fe side: love for others is pretty easy for someone who can feel clearly the social dynamics and the emotional condition of others. Loving someone who loves you is par for the course. We feel the interpersonal issue without focusing on it and
without being too sure of ourselves. As such I know a lot of FJs in relationships because they felt right, nothing more.
As my ESFJ friend said, he married his wife because they got along well enough and it felt ok, not for some deep passion, not for consuming lust, but because they seem to fit. I believe his wife is a ISFJ, btw. Their relationship seems to lack any deep feeling, and so that will develop over time, most likely, as challenges are overcome together.
So, the Fe path of love growth is not the same as the Fi path. It is starting from the group to grow the individual vs. starting from the individual to move to the group.
Fe doesn't choose so much on start, but feels the relationship works.
Your phraseology here is very Fi, in both immature and mature.
Mature: the essence of love is interpersonal, then it suggests love is an external ideal to be achieved. Immature: an inner quality to be discovered.
The first has staying power and is borne of willingness to choose the person again daily and be flexible in re-negotiating the terms of the social-contract. The second is largely based on intangible feeling and is a shaky foundation that leads to all the 'marriage sucks' or 'we never have sex anymore' or 'we have nothing to talk about' dross polluting the ocean tides of human connection.
Immature Fi is about self. Mature Fi is about choosing the person daily. Choosing is about an individual deciding to remain part of the relationship.
In contrast, immature Fe feels the relationship works, but isn't much about self. It is that the other person seems like the right pairing. There is very little internal dynamic consciously, as I discussed with regards to my ESFJ friend.
Mature Fe individualizes their love. It is very different. It is choosing to love and loving from an internal position.
Either can fail easy enough. It matters not how much one chooses the other person if the other person doesn't reciprocate or refuses to renegotiate or adapt. This choosing is one of my core beliefs so I'm gonna fight for it
I understand the stakes are higher when one side is not co-operative to the process. Choosing is still imperative. A daily choice whether to remain and keep up the 'good fight' for example. A consideration: if the underlying dynamics are worthy of still continuing and whether they will reap rewards in the future.
NOT CHOOSING means apathy and that is death for any relationship.
Even if only one person is trying, there may be benefits that are not clearly or quickly evident. If a couple is struggling in huge breakers and one submits to the waves should the other put their head under the water too? No! The one remaining should kick and scream and strain every muscle and bit of energy to get to shore. They will even have to pull along the dead weight of the partner. Fair? Hell no. Life isn't fair. (The time may come in life when THEY have to rely on someone in a time of sickness, weakness...even if it isn't their partner.)
A PARTNERship SHOULD be a team and both ideally will strive to put heart and soul into the success (even if not always simultaneously
). That is why I said the above re: choosing someone INITIALLY. It's vital to choose someone who is a companion and shares the same sort of ideology of 'what is fair and appropriate' in a relationship. Romantic or sexy? Some might think not but discussing it thoroughly and observing each other sure makes for a better overall experience down the road.
Once IN, I agree that it is trickier when enmeshed with someone who is not reciprocating or open. Then choosing becomes about literally choosing the relationship or not. And, if choosing to stay, STILL daily reminding oneself what makes it worth or even potentially worth it.
You know that I say all of this with a veil of utmost respect for the way you have (and do) conduct yourself my friend.
I don't know how much I made a choice with my wife, tbh. I was pulled by an intensity that is largely inexplicable, even now. It felt correct, so I accommodated over and over again, ignoring my own feelings, sacrificing my needs and wants, for the good of the group. I accepted abuse and hate so extreme, that to call it unhealthy would be generous.
For 20 years, I stayed with my goal of not being like my parents and divorcing. It wasn't choosing to love her, but choosing to stay married, no matter what. It was a stupid choice and only made matters worse, as I should have stood up to mistreatment instead of ignore it.
Only after my midlife awakening and crisis did I ever even consider consciously my needs, wants, and desires. On the barest reed, I made a choice, maybe my first choice at all. It is/was still more about the group than myself. I don't believe I can ever stop sacrificing myself for the good of my family.
But I started the path to loving myself and feeling love from inside.
This isn't to say it wasn't there all along. It just was not conscious.
As such, I don't believe we are disagreeing much, but if I were to true to myself and only myself, I would likely run away and find a much easier person than my wife.
I would rather that everyone fight to maintain relationships once in, especially of long duration. But I might be better of today if I had left a year ago, happier in all likelihood. Would I have grown as much? No. Would it be better for my kids? No. Would it be better for my wife? Maybe. It might have forced her to actually deal with her life instead of continuing to ignore it.
My INFJ sister, who separated after I told her the truth of my situation, is divorcing her husband of 31 years. He hasn't done any self growth either. But it was her kids saying that would move out before living with him again that was the final straw, it seems. Fe is protecting a group, but excluding my BIL.
But for 30 years, my sister kept choosing her husband, no matter the crap he put her through, no matter how he treated the children and her, no matter his narcissism, no matter his neglect of the children. But by finally developing internal love, she can divorce her husband, no matter that she still loves him.
So again, love is different but similar for Fe and Fi users. In maturity they will look similar, but come from different sources and paths.
, in teal) and LSI 
, in orange) appear to have the hardest time of all the Sociotypes in finding and uniting with their duals. As such, wouldn't an identity relationship be a good option? I'd like to hear from those who have experienced an identity relationship, and not just EIEs and LSIs.
