Gender

[Betty Blue]

Not to be a spoil sport, but I find master lists like this pointless, and their ever changing and dynamic content only underlines the silliness of gender categories.

Gender is not real beyond being an abstract social construct. This list is potentially infinite. Its actual utility is questionable.

Are all genders valid, or Is it really that no gender is valid?


Are two genders simply not enough, or are two genders actually too many?

This bolded really resonates with me. It is more complex than dismissing it though, unless you could somehow simultaneously start everyone at the same base level of the dismissal.

 

[Yama]

This bolded really resonates with me. It is more complex than dismissing it though, unless you could somehow simultaneously start everyone at the same base level of the dismissal.

Yes, this is why I see discussions of eliminating gender as idealistic and nice to talk about hypothetically, but unrealistic.

 

[Forever]

Yeah I think gender norms like that are way too consteicting. Girls and boys should do whatever the hell they want. I have both girly interests and boyish interests and I don't attribute that to my gender.

Also, my gender identity is a personal identity for me rather than fulfilling a social role.

It's about owning and being proud of who I am and not feeling bad or guilty.

Yeah as people are all naturally who they are, we'll focus on togetherness because of actual relationships, not some social norm that is too out there to accomplish.

As WUR said, we're all non binary. I can't think of anyone or maybe not willing to accept there is someone who fits the exact opposite of this gender "spectrum".

No child is born thinking hell yeah let's blow up stuff with guns and shit or a make up set in a toolbox they're born. There is no inscription on a child's chest saying how to raise or whatever. We're all born who we are on the inside.

 

[Betty Blue]

Yes, this is why I see discussions of eliminating gender as idealistic and nice to talk about hypothetically, but unrealistic.

Yah but you know it's really good to see so much understanding and support happening. I see it everywhere at the moment and it makes me feel wonderful to be part of a social bias breakthrough. It's evolution in motion.


Edit: Ops sorry, I misread you post as not seeing the point in discussing gender.

 

[Forever]

Sorry for my bad grammar here and thank you for understanding what I was saying as well too guys.

I usually edit a lot to make more sense but it caps my way of thinking if all I focus is writing perfectly so thank you.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

This bolded really resonates with me. It is more complex than dismissing it though, unless you could somehow simultaneously start everyone at the same base level of the dismissal.

I certainly don't dismiss issues of gender and sexuality.

Moving society to a place of understanding the truth about gender is a big prospect. There's probably only so much we can do, here and now, in a proactive fashion. I've talked at other times on the forum about how some very radical things concerning technology and the like may be the only way we completely get over it.

But it's still worthwhile that we try to move toward that, and I'm very skeptical of any supposed solutions, however well intentioned, that seem to root our understanding of gender further in archetypes, stereotypes, essentialism and naturalism.

 

[Yama]

Sorry for my bad grammar here and thank you for understanding what I was saying as well too guys.

I usually edit a lot to make more sense but it caps my way of thinking if all I focus is writing perfectly so thank you.

You're cool forever. I like talking to you.

 

[Forever]

Actually I think bathrooms should all be shared. Have urinals and stalls so transsexuals can feel comfortable going to the bathroom too.

 

[Yama]

Actually I think bathrooms should all be shared. Have urinals and stalls so transsexuals can feel comfortable going to the bathroom too.

What some transphobic people don't understand is that they're ALREADY sharing bathrooms with trans people. And they're just fine.

 

[Betty Blue]

I certainly don't dismiss issues of gender and sexuality.

Moving society to a place of understanding the truth about gender is a big prospect. There's probably only so much we can do, here and now, in a proactive fashion. I've talked at other times on the forum about how some very radical things concerning technology and the like may be the only way we completely get over it.

But it's still worthwhile that we try to move toward that, and I'm very skeptical of any supposed solutions, however well intentioned, that seem to root our understanding of gender further in archetypes, stereotypes, essentialism and naturalism.

You know I think it's high time we have a sci fi film addressing a uni gender utopian future. If we do already, hit me with a title.

 

[Forever]

What some transphobic people don't understand is that they're ALREADY sharing bathrooms with trans people. And they're just fine.

Haha yeah.

But some are quite easy to tell that they're a transsexual so they face discrimination for going to the appropriate bathroom but even if they went to their biological gendered one, they'd still feel uncomfortable.

 

[Yama]

Haha yeah.

But some are quite easy to tell that they're a transsexual so they face discrimination for going to the appropriate bathroom but even if they went to their biological gendered one, they'd still feel uncomfortable.

Exactly why so many trans people just try to avoid going to the bathroom in public at all. Its a lose-lose situation.

 

[Forever]

Exactly why so many trans people just try to avoid going to the bathroom in public at all. Its a lose-lose situation.

Yeah and anyway I tend to use my own apartment bathroom for anything activity that requires me to sit than to stand anyway. I generally don't like public restrooms unless the store is new or really well kept. Some places only have private bathrooms too.

 

[violet_crown]

Sure, I don't see why they couldn't be. But I also think being agender or gender fluid is harder to "present" since most people will automatically gender them on sight and it might not match what they feel like. Especially with agender

Edit: [MENTION=7254]Wind Up Rex[/MENTION] since I didn't quote

To me, the more interesting idea is to think of sexuality as something that's more connected and spontaneous. Maybe gender fluidity means that me interacting with you in a given context, or you interacting with me in another allows one facet or another to come forward. Maybe by talking about things in terms of "identity" were missing out on the pleasure of the give and take. Perhaps this is the more extraverted perspective that [MENTION=26269]Kheledon[/MENTION] was getting at earlier.

I think this is where my perspective as an sx-dom might depart from yours as someone who identifies as asexual. I don't have to be terribly pristine about the boundaries of my gender identity, because I know that there's all kinds of things I'm capable of--all of whom are equally true to who I am. Therefore, what is expressed at any given moment may be more contingent on context than anything "inherent".

 

[Yama]

To me, the more interesting idea is to think of sexuality as something that's more connected and spontaneous. Maybe gender fluidity means that me interacting with you in a given context, or you interacting with me in another allows one facet or another to come forward. Maybe by talking about things in terms of "identity" were missing out on the pleasure of the give and take. Perhaps this is the more extraverted perspective that [MENTION=26269]Kheledon[/MENTION] was getting at earlier.

I think this is where my perspective as an sx-dom might depart from yours as someone who identifies as asexual. I don't have to be terribly pristine about the boundaries of my gender identity, because I know that there's all kinds of things I'm capable of--all of whom are equally true to who I am. Therefore, what is expressed at any given moment may be more contingent on context than anything "inherent".

Gender can also be spontaneous and unfixed; this is something I've found many people are skeptical to accept. For me, my gender identity hasn't really changed over time, so I don't have much insider information on that. The reason I feel strongly about my identity at least is because I've become tired of people telling me that the way I feel is wrong and having to fight to feel comfortable with the way that I feel. Though for the nonbinary, I believe this "sense of identity" is a lot more fluid.

 

[Captain_Invincible]

For years, I have identified with being masculine, and having a masculine spirit inside me. I have always preferred presenting myself as 'masculine', but if I do ever decide to take HRT, I don't want to be defined by a label if that makes sense? I've never really enjoyed 'gender' labels because to me, gender is a spectrum and different people fall within different areas of this spectrum, and some (a lot) of people don't want to be labelled or tied down to 'gender identity labels'.

At the end of the day, we are all humans regardless of how we identify. We all share common interests, which form connections, and I think the main thing is that us as humans can get on well and feel connected within online communities without feeling the pressure to confine ourselves. We are all unique people, and we are all a part of this one community, which I am glad to say. We mightn't always agree, but to me, we are a big online family.

Yeah, that's all I really got to say. To me, 'gender' isn't what is important, nor defines me. What defines me more than anything is my character. Of course I am willing to accept people as they are, but I don't think 'gender' is the end all and be all of everything. For some people it is important to their identities, and I respect that, but to me there are more important things.

 

[violet_crown]

Gender can also be spontaneous and unfixed; this is something I've found many people are skeptical to accept. For me, my gender identity hasn't really changed over time, so I don't have much insider information on that. The reason I feel strongly about my identity at least is because I've become tired of people telling me that the way I feel is wrong and having to fight to feel comfortable with the way that I feel. Though for the nonbinary, I believe this "sense of identity" is a lot more fluid.

Exactly! That's what I was getting at in the previous post.

In my experience, gender is dynamic because of the way it intersects with sexuality. The construction of gender is relative. Perhaps it's going to far that gender only has meaning in terms of sexuality, but I'm hard pressed to think of why it would make a difference otherwise. If we as a society are evolving past the point where we think of social roles as gendered, then what difference does gender make outside of relationships?

I'm curious what role gender plays for you as an asexual? How does being identified as male impact your day to day life?

 

[Yama]

Exactly! That's what I was getting at in the previous post.

In my experience, gender is dynamic because of the way it intersects with sexuality. The construction of gender is relative. Perhaps it's going to far that gender only has meaning in terms of sexuality, but I'm hard pressed to think of why it would make a difference otherwise. If we as a society are evolving past the point where we think of social roles as gendered, then what difference does gender make outside of relationships?

I'm curious what role gender plays for you as an asexual? How does being identified as male impact your day to day life?

That's why I think that part of being trans is nurture, and part is nature.

Tbh I see my gender and sexuality as fairly unrelated; as for romantic attraction, if I feel it, I don't care what sex or gender the other person is. I'm just not very interested in the act of sex.

As for my day to day life, it's tough. I have a "girly voice" so despite doing everything I possibly can to present as a "typical" male (short hair, chest binder, etc) I am constantly misgendered. I'm very closeted and only out around friends, my mom, and online. Being misgendered really hurts but I don't have the emotional energy to come out 20 times a day. I am comfortable with myself, but fear rejection from others.

But being gendered correctly--when I am--by friends and my therapist. God it feels so good. It makes me feel so comfortable, accepted, and welcome. It makes me feel validated and normal. Other than that, I do the same things I did before I identified as trans, but now just feeling more comfortable with my identity and happy that I don't have to feel broken or alone.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

This annoys me for some reason.

Maybe because it focuses on self to a ridiculous degree.

 

[á´…eparted]

Tbh I see my gender and sexuality as fairly unrelated

Hunh. This is interesting, and I have never consciously thought about this before. To me they are extremely linked. I mean, I don't expect it to be the same in others, but I always assumed it is for the majority. Have you noticed any trends with this?