[Fe] FJs, describe Fe as you understand it

[á´…eparted]

This is a fair question. My honest answer is - I don't know that others see it and interpret it the way that we do. There is also enneagram coming into play here, for me I feel that more than anything else in this matter - You push me, you will get the very worst of me in return. I have an ENFJ, I know well what this compulsion to get away from conflict is. It just seems that it's nearly impossible to convey that the way FJ's interpret a conflict, is not how others, including the people in a conflict, always interpret a conflict. I don't think there is an INTJ/ENTJ and certainly not an e8 out there that thinks conflict is inherently bad. It can be stupid and it can be unproductive but it's never - bad and must be stopped. It's a case by case thing and most importantly - it's not always your (FJ's) call to make. That's the big sticking point

This is an area where I differ from most Fe users- I have little to no issue with conflict.

I used to when I was younger because I lacked self-confidance and did not believe I could properly back myself up and be justified in conflict. As I got older though I learned how to do that, and now I have zero issues with it.

I don't there is anything inherently bad about conflict, but I can think conflict can be massively inappropriate in some situations.

Most Fe users dislike or are afraid of conflict, but there is a minority of us who aren't.

 

[Amargith]

(I'm still mulling over the responses I got and will get back to them later, they were great )

[MENTION=4050]ceecee[/MENTION] Actually, for my part, I do see it that way, but because I share that wish for harmony, it leaves me befuddled on where I stand. I don't...have that same knee-jerk reaction to want to be in harmony/share consensus with everyone - from debate and disagreement, after all, comes great brainstorming, which is something Ne just loves. So for me,it's always left me confused as to...where the line is, I suppose, as I do see the value in all being on the same page. I just prefer the process of getting there to actually staying there no matter what. I also figured the FJs knew something I didn't, when I was younger.

But I agree - while harmony/consensus has a very definite purpose and can wield a group superbly, it shouldn't be an absolute. And the same, for that matter ,can be said about each type's priorities. For TJs, the same can be applied to their drive for efficiency. For FPs, to their need to respect the unique and free will, for SJs to the concept of duty, and for TPs, to the concept of objective truth, and so on.

Once it becomes an absolute that never can be mitigated under any circumstance, the temptation to control and coerce others into following *your* ruleset becomes almost irresistible due to the compulsion for that ideal - however well-intentioned.

 

[cascadeco]

I am reminded of the ESFJ flavor of Fe as I spend the evening with my friends' mother - of an older generation so todays' esfj's may not relate as much, but I think it demonstrates Fe to the core.

The last time I visited she shared that she kept a notebook filled with peoples' allergies/food dislikes and also kept a running list of things she had cooked for people- so that she never cooked the same thing for a visitor twice. I was sort of in awe of this, and impressed, and felt it was also so sweet and thoughtful.

Just wanted to share what I think is a really positive example of Fe. At least of the Si variety.

 

[Gogol]

One of the best video descriptions of Fe in my opinion.

This is the reason for Fe being so sensitive of external validation -- it internalizes the feelings of others and diffusing conflict is one way to resolve it.

 

[Yama]

Mmm...question..how do you feel sympathy/empathy integrates with your Fe?
What I mean is - there's a lot of talk about maintaining the mood, working the room for harmony, and feeling inferior and guilty if you disrupt the environment without at least turning it into something better. Meanwhile though, Fe is also tied with sympathy and understanding of people. So how does the merging of that desire to maintain harmony and dealing with disruptive people work? What makes the scales tip in favour of helping them and sympathising with them and what makes it tip the other way, where they'll be scolded for disrupting the environment?

Sorry for the late reply! Busy weekend and busy school week.

Also, fair warning: Not sure what of my reply is more Fe, and what is more 9. Either way, it is me

The "feeling guilty for disrupting the environment" thing you mentioned is so real for me. For example, if I'm hanging out with a couple of my friends and say or do something that they perceive to be even slightly annoying or irritation (whether it be from what I said or because I was talking to loud, or whatever), if they react with any level or irritation whatsoever, I shut down for a few minutes. Situations like these actually kind of make me want to run off somewhere to be alone for a few minutes to cry, but I can't do that. So instead, I refrain from talking or doing anything else until the moment is passed and is forgotten. Although, as I'm someone who's hyper-concerned with keeping a harmonic atmosphere at all times, this rarely happens to me.

Disruptive people at work... oh no. Okay, so I used to work in customer service, right? Yeah. Not the best. Actually, most of the customers were really nice to me, because I always had this enthusiastic, helpful vibe (even tho half the time I am dead on the inside). Most of the time things went really well. But sometimes... they don't. One time a customer came in and--well, he wasn't actually ever rude to me--but he asked to use the phone at my desk that customers can use, so of course I allowed him to. He called someone up and starting cussing them out over the phone really loudly. Yelling screaming and cursing everywhere. I was so in shock that I didn't even know what to do... so I just continued to help whoever it is I was helping awkwardly (a manager ran over to stop him shortly after). It made me super uncomfortable--I wasn't personally offended by any of what he was doing, but I knew that it "wasn't okay" that it was happening in a public grocery store full of other people who might find it highly offensive. But really, I don't know what to do in situations like that other than recognize the problem. A manager had to do it for me.

A few times I'd dealt with generally pissy/angry/mean customers. And it really hurt, or mad me mad or sad. No one would have veer guessed it though--I always reacted by continuing to be polite and civil, acting as though they'd never said anything rude to me or that I hadn't heard it at all. Even though I definitely did and probably bitched about it over text to a friend on my break afterwards or was otherwise deeply affected by in in some way.

And when those negative instances occurred... it really affected me. Like, I didn't just move on. Everything else around me did--my work day did, the customers came and went--but I'd still be shaky and disoriented for hours afterward. Especially after the time my manager got mad at me because I couldn't find the vendor book after he relocated everything at the customer service desk, found it again and slammed it down on the table in front of me super loudly. I almost started crying, and I was shaken up for the rest of the day (and found it very difficult and awkward to talk to that manager after that).

I can be pretty hyper-aware of dynamics. This is something I've only realized recently, because it used to happen so unconsciously for me. We all know I have my "How can I make my Fe not suck" thread where I whine that my Fe sucks, but actually I think it's just because I was operating under the wrong definition of Fe, and because what Fe I did have, I was blind to because I was so "used" to it.

Now, scolding someone for disrupting the environment is another story. I don't do the scolding, I'm way too timid for that. I simply bitch about their behavior to a friend or something afterward to vent. Venting is how I let go.

 

[BeyondTheGrey]

Hmm, Emotional awareness beyond the self. A focus on people in general. Viewing things from a greater perspective, using and understanding social constructs to explain situations. Its basically observation and awareness with a focus on group harmony.

 

[fetus]

Some of the information I have received about Fe/Fi and Si/Ne on this forum makes me wonder if I am ISFJ. Interesting threads. Lots to chew on here.

This new information should be spread around. Squeeze out the stereotypes.

 

[thoughtlost]

Hmm, Emotional awareness beyond the self. A focus on people in general. Viewing things from a greater perspective, using and understanding social constructs of explain situations. Its basically observation and awareness with a focus on group harmony.

I really like this as an explanation of Fe.

I tend to be aware of the internal states of people outside of ourselves and we're willing to explore the thoughts/feelings/perspectives of other people. I can sort of get lost in 'other worlds' like that.

People don't realize how wishy-washy that can make me hahaha.

 

[21%]

I really like this as an explanation of Fe.

I tend to be aware of the internal states of people outside of ourselves and we're willing to explore the thoughts/feelings/perspectives of other people. I can sort of get lost in 'other worlds' like that.

People don't realize how wishy-washy that can make me hahaha.

This is interesting! I sometimes struggle with 'agreeing' with conflicting sets of social values depending on the groups of people I'm with. This doesn't happen with things I care deeply about, but with a lot of "Is XYZ right or wrong?" I can usually go either way because I can identify with both sides of the argument.

 

[Yama]

Question for FJs. What do you think the benefits and drawbacks of your Fe are? Do you like or dislike it? How do you think you are perceived by others? How much goes on under the surface that others may not be able to see? What are your personal values, and why?

 

[Forever]

Some of the information I have received about Fe/Fi and Si/Ne on this forum makes me wonder if I am ISFJ. Interesting threads. Lots to chew on here.

This new information should be spread around. Squeeze out the stereotypes.

It is your destiny, fetus.

 

[Cellmold]

Question for FJs. What do you think the benefits and drawbacks of your Fe are?

Benefits is going to be hard so I'll start with those. I think it's useful as a superficial charmer that helps to get people to like you but the key word is superficial. Worth noting though, that I was hated at school in my youth and had no friends.
However It helps for meaningless small talk to fill in the gaps and for me it has been useful for lying to get jobs.

If I wasn't able to create the impression of competency (in spite of contrary evidence) then I wouldn't be working now; the truth is not something I can shake hands with easily.

The drawbacks appear to be much more numerous. First and foremost I dislike the intense focus on what others think about me in relation to a group environment. So much energy goes into this consideration that it's a bit staggering to think about the implications of time wasted on it; both in holding yourself back or in attempting to control social flows of information in social settings. I resent that I appear to have no capacity for self - propulsion; I always need someone else as a helping hand. If I try to think deeply about any subject I get exhausted very quickly which demonstrates a lack or weakness in more intellectual pursuits.

My poor technical aptitude makes me feel like a defunct entity for this era and my generation. I can solve very basic problems with computers, for example, but that's only because of being brought up with modern technology systems and when my only customers are my ageing parents it's easy to look good by comparison.

Lack of logical reasoning skills is something I've attempted to work on and I believe I've improved a little, but I still feel like I'm looking at an invisible hand that magically makes information sensible. Once again, enormous conscious effort seems to be required but I'm very limited in how long I can maintain that focus Eventually I have to back off and just rest because of the stress.

And then the need for other's affirmations... what an awful drive that is.

Do you like or dislike it?

As it's probably clear above: I dislike it intensely. The negatives clearly outweigh the positives.

How do you think you are perceived by others?

I think people perceive me as insecure but likeable and someone who needs to be less hard on himself. In better moods many might say i was humorous and witty, but i can't really tell and i don't perceive myself that way. The problem is that if I wasn't hard on myself I wouldn't even bother and would have checked out years ago.

I also think I'm easily forgotten and don't stand out. I'm also highly aware that I annoy and frustrate thinking types without even trying.

How much goes on under the surface that others may not be able to see?

Intense self imposed egg shells based upon incomplete assumptions about others motives. It's easy to be suspicious and paranoid about every single interaction. I'm essentially unhappy all the time because unless the mood is at a certain level it seems I can't cope with the negatives of reality.

Heavy fears of criticism and conflict because my interactions are largely falsified due to not wanting exposure.

What are your personal values, and why?

I value sound logical reasoning, stability of emotions or rather emotional awareness, sovereignty of thought and action. Honesty and a drive towards truth are also good.

Technical aptitude. Being skilled and competent in a general sense. The ability to understand complex information and pull from different angles to come to new outcomes.

Self awareness towards an improved life is probably one of the bigger ones.

I value all of these because they are qualities I don't possess and I actively work against what comes naturally. Because what comes naturally has demonstrably not helped me in my life or those of people around me, it's just an illusion of pleasantries.

I don't want to be an illusion for the rest of my life.

 

[Tilt]

Question for FJs. What do you think the benefits and drawbacks of your Fe are? Do you like or dislike it? How do you think you are perceived by others? How much goes on under the surface that others may not be able to see? What are your personal values, and why?

For me, I can use my Fe+Ni combination to seek out a person, get to know them and learn their thought process well enough to tailor my communication specific to their perspective. Quite useful in business and personal. When I actually choose to engage, it makes the people around me feel understood, cared about, and safe. On the flipside, if there are too many people in the room w/ conflicting motivations, my brain kind of short-circuits. This can cause me to have a lot of social anxiety. I sort of like it because this is the ability that almost always helps, on a subconscious level, to get the right people on my side to help me accomplish my goals.

Due to my physicality, people consistently underestimate me and see me as unassuming and don't take me all that seriously... until they see my "connections" with seemingly more influential people. My Fe is pretty hands-off so I think people perceive me as "smug", "calculated", "somewhat cold" but once I let people in, they are surprised at my depth of caring and concern for others, empathy and understanding, and how I do things for people "behind-the scenes". I orchestrate a lot more things in the background than most people realize... until AFTER the fact (IXTJs seem the most wary of this). Things just sorta happen... usually not in a malicious manner, though.

My values are:

Understanding
Seeking truth
Individuality

 

[Haven]

Pros:
Master of subtlety, lets me work without being hassled.
Indirect approach to problem solving can make solutions more coherent and permanent.
Seeing people happy creates genuine positive feelings in myself
Intertwining my own needs with others bestows resilience in the face of difficulty

Cons:
Taking things personally, tend to fall apart when hassled too much, being called worthless tends to make it true.
Indirect approach to problem solving can be slow and ineffectual.
Seeing people unhappy creates genuine negative feelings in myself
Intertwining needs with others makes me vulnerable to their flaws

Personal values include positive action, commonality, knowledge.

 

[fetus]

I've got so much love for others...more than they could ever know...I just overflow.

But when someone actually gets upset, I act like a complete social dork. Expressionless. Awkward. "Oh...that sucks." Inside, I'm crying for them, crying with them, but I'm so uncomfortable.

I offer myself out for anyone to talk with me, because I feel like such a loving person, but it's tiring and I'm so weird with dealing with others' emotions. I know how to deal with mine very well, but I'm like a potato with other people.

In theory, I'm a wonderful person to come to with problems, but in practice, I'm absolutely terrible. Do other IxFJs experience this?

 

[Yama]

I've got so much love for others...more than they could ever know...I just overflow.

But when someone actually gets upset, I act like a complete social dork. Expressionless. Awkward. "Oh...that sucks." Inside, I'm crying for them, crying with them, but I'm so uncomfortable.

I offer myself out for anyone to talk with me, because I feel like such a loving person, but it's tiring and I'm so weird with dealing with others' emotions. I know how to deal with mine very well, but I'm like a potato with other people.

In theory, I'm a wonderful person to come to with problems, but in practice, I'm absolutely terrible. Do other IxFJs experience this?

Oh yeah I can relate to this. I wouldn't say I have overflowing love for others by any means, but I do care quite a lot for my friends. I'm just super awkward at expressing it. And I want to be there for them when they're upset, but I don't really know what to do besides offer words of sympathy... Like, I feel like words aren't really enough, I should be doing something or at least saying something better than "I'm sorry, that sucks," but my mind blanks and I get really uncomfortable.

Emotions can actually make me pretty darned uncomfortable. I don't know how to properly express mine around others--I'm either suppressing all negative emotion and showing only the positive, or I'm being overbearingly panicky and negative, there's not much of an in between--and while I can understand and sympathize with others when they're having a problem, I automatically start feeling responsible for their current mental and emotional state when they reach out to me, and I'm like "Oh my god, I have to fix this right now, I have to cheer you up but being super peppy around you when you're hurting seems kind of inconsiderate in a way, I don't know how to make your problem go away I don't know what to do."

Perhaps this is where our enneagram flavoring comes in?

 

[á´…eparted]

I've got so much love for others...more than they could ever know...I just overflow.

But when someone actually gets upset, I act like a complete social dork. Expressionless. Awkward. "Oh...that sucks." Inside, I'm crying for them, crying with them, but I'm so uncomfortable.

I offer myself out for anyone to talk with me, because I feel like such a loving person, but it's tiring and I'm so weird with dealing with others' emotions. I know how to deal with mine very well, but I'm like a potato with other people.

In theory, I'm a wonderful person to come to with problems, but in practice, I'm absolutely terrible. Do other IxFJs experience this?

I am basically the complete inverse of this .

 

[fetus]

I am basically the complete inverse of this .

What do you mean?

 

[á´…eparted]

What do you mean?

+ I have very little love for others. I'm quite cold unfortunately.

+ When someone gets upset, it's quite easy for me to enter a mode and deal really well with it. It's just simply the right thing to do.

+ I do not overtly offer. I simply be who I am, and some take a signal to open up, and I am good with that.

aka. inverse

 

[Yama]

+ I have very little love for others. I'm quite cold unfortunately.

+ When someone gets upset, it's quite easy for me to enter a mode and deal really well with it. It's just simply the right thing to do.

+ I do not overtly offer. I simply be who I am, and some take a signal to open up, and I am good with that.

aka. inverse

I think this could possibly be explained not only by differences in enneagram, but also temperament (not sure what fetus' is, but you're choleric and I'm phlegmatic), and possibly also an introvert vs extrovert thing. Doesn't make you any less of an FJ though