[INTJ] ENFPS and INTJs

[Virtual ghost]

I will answer both of your posts at once.

Ok. Isn't it fair to asses that you've come to this understanding regarding your philosophy over your lifespan? What experience do you think a woman is having throughout her lifespan that leads her to the philosophy she has developed? Bad life choices has less to do with being and ENFP and more to do with a personal weakness or over use of a strength/immaturity/gross misunderstanding. In your case, that may be waiting until your 30's to focus on finding an intimate partnership. You may find that waiting this long has been your bad life choice that haunts you into your latter life. I don't see that as a FP-TJ divide, but more a human experience.

Virtual Ghost...I have to say. You are an extremely intelligent person, I can tell. However, intelligence isn't always the proper tool for the job. Self confidence may be present in the woman that you're attracted to, but weans as the balance of self shifts to allow another person into ones life. What you're seeing isn't insecurity as much as it is vulnerability. These are NOT the same thing. It would behoove you to take a closer examination of these human interactions so that when a woman is feeling vulnerable you do not misconstrue this as insecurity and drama. Think of the song by Sam Cooke - Try a Little Tenderness. When a woman is feeling insecure - you're more likely to see her behave in a way that is fishing for compliments or assurance. You, of course can decide how to reassure her - by either repeating yourself, or offering a compliment, or applying reason or logic. - However, applying those interventions to a woman that is feeling vulnerable will be ineffective. She doesn't need reassurance, she needs to feel that she can trust you with herself and what she extends as her circle of safety. Speaking to her in logic during this phase will only confuse her. Her emotionalism will intensify and she may start to cry. It's not that she cannot see the philosophy you're relaying, just that she cannot see it right in that moment. First, a man must address her vulnerability by showing her how she can trust him. Then he can share his logical plan with the likelihood she will be more open and accepting.


How can you be sure that you won't be awkward? There isn't a systematic approach that can help you identify what a woman is needing that you can pre-plan for. That's why it's awkward. You can't think through that process. It's like trying to screw in a nail with a drill. That just looks odd. Sure - you might be able to finagle some way to get the screw in but it's must more effective and efficient to just use a hammer. Right? Meanwhile - if the woman is the nail - you're coming at her with a drill in the incorrect manner. Um, can you say scary? (Hey - whatcha gonna do with that?) She just DOESN'T work that way. If you were a nail, and someone were coming to you with a drill, and they were trying to convince you that's what is going to work best, wouldn't you look at them oddly? You would want them to or even try to convince them reciprocally that you are a NAIL! Derp. That's not illogical - it's nature. And just as in nature, things can be explained in logical terms - so can she. You just haven't figured that puzzle out yet. You see Fibonacci sequence, but she's the golden ratio. You just need to go farther and work harder to get to where you want to be with her. Essentially - I'm calling you a quitter. You've given up too easily. That's why you don't have the relationship you truly desire. It's not just her. It's you.

Yes - I absolutely would be uncomfortable trying out a relationship with someone that has no romantic experiences. Read above- that's why. Conversely - that isn't to say that I wouldn't be open to attempting one with a man that shows great quality and potential. I would be willing to try.

1. Ok, but MBTI doesn't account for culture, life experience, behavioral influences, choices, childhood environment, sociological environment, career stressors, etc. It's just a foundational view of the world. But what world is circumstantial. You must not have left your little circle of the world yet? No?

2. Are we operating under the base assumption that all ENFP's are exactly like your mother? Tsk. Tsk.

No, we are not operating under the assumption that all ENFPs are my mother. However all ENFP women that I have met tend to have plenty of the same/similar traits with which I clash. However I tent to get along with ENFP men pretty well, my best buddy from high school was almost surely an ENFP. The fact is that I tend to score very high on both T and J and therefore with all women I tend to have similar problems.



However there is something you are missing in the whole picture and that is that I am from a FUCKED UP place. Here at least 3/4 of people have some sort of mental disorder since our history and our present are not nice. (and our future does not look promising either). Here in the population between 18 and 30 that is not in the high education the unemployment rate is around 45% and that is only because of strong emigration of young people. Plus those that work often do not get paid regulary (this is possible scenario over here) and those that get paid get about 500-700$ a month. Above that we all have screwd up education because the government did not have the money to pay the teachers due to war expenses and legal/moral corruption that bubbled up to the surface because of the war and genocide that happened here.


In my generation there are plenty of unhealthy people and many of them are women since they took the genocide more personally and they can't start a family since there is no money or resurces in general. Also the unemloypemt is so high that the chances that they will get a job are minimal (and even if they get it, it will be a pretty shitty job). Therefore our women went crazy due to the whole situation and I have talked about this with other people since I am not the only one that is notcing this. Yes, women tend to have more feelings and insecurities but the situation in the field is evidently worse than it should be when it comes to male/female dynamics. For example if you call me for weeks and then cry into the phone that is something I see as drama. You help the person, you show understanding but on the long run this is unsustainable since I just can't take more of that anymore. Especially since my productivity level started to drop and I could not afford that. Or you go on a date and the girl says that she would like to see you again and after that she just starts to ignore you. Once I met in person a girl that I have liked and she was a ENFP/ENTP and liked me back but I just could not handle the fact that she smokes 3-4 packages of cigarettes a day. Therefore I have stoped deeper introduction in the start.


I have tried to get with women from kindergarten age: they were not overly interested. At age of 1 to 8th grade they have openly ignored me and later I went to education paths where women are clear minority. Also for the last 5 years I was very busy so I did not have that much time for anything and that includes women. I was basically completely unactive on this forum from 2010 to about a month ago. However even during that time I have tried to date about 10 women, but eveytime there was a clear dealbraker or there was so much constant drama that it was basically irrelevant what is causing it. I trully do not think that I am grounded in my picture of the world but I just did not manage to hit where I should have or I just wasn't interested enough.



Why I believe that I will not be awkward ? I have invested is social skills, what makes my past somewhat irrelevant and I plan to find someone with who I trully have a full understanding. I have started to check large amount of women and places they can be found so the odds are that I will with time find someone that is right for me. MBTI is basically irrelevent to me but since we are on MBTI forum and in the ENFP/INTJ thread the MBTI gets into talk more than it should.
Also a few months ago I have solved my old problem which is that I had a subtle breathing problems and because of that I had a energy deficit and I was often sleepy. Now that this has changed and many other problems got solved as well I have changed so much that I have a certain identity crisis. Since now the very old idea that I am an ENTJ that just could not empathize with his shity and dramatic environment seems more stabile than ever. I use Fi more as a inferior than tertiary fuction and e8 collapses to e5 while e1 is often mistyped as e5. What ovrall means that I may look as INTJ as face value but I may no actually be one. Especially since I am born in Communist dictatorship and grow up in the shitstorm in which it was impossible to fulfill the capitalistic ENTJ stereotype.



What I am saying is that you should not base your opinions about ENFP/INTJ dinamic on me.

 

[Hapyniss]

I will answer both of your posts at once.










No, we are not operating under the assumption that all ENFPs are my mother. However all ENFP women that I have met tend to have plenty of the same/similar traits with which I clash. However I tent to get along with ENFP men pretty well, my best buddy from high school was almost surely an ENFP. The fact is that I tend to score very high on both T and J and therefore with all women I tend to have similar problems.



However there is something you are missing in the whole picture and that is that I am from a FUCKED UP place. Here at least 3/4 of people have some sort of mental disorder since our history and our present are not nice. (and our future does not look promising either). Here in the population between 18 and 30 that is not in the high education the unemployment rate is around 45% and that is only because of strong emigration of young people. Plus those that work often do not get paid regulary (this is possible scenario over here) and those that get paid get about 500-700$ a month. Above that we all have screwd up education because the government did not have the money to pay the teachers due to war expenses and legal/moral corruption that bubbled up to the surface because of the war and genocide that happened here.


In my generation there are plenty of unhealthy people and many of them are women since they took the genocide more personally and they can't start a family since there is no money or resurces in general. Also the unemloypemt is so high that the chances that they will get a job are minimal (and even if they get it, it will be a pretty shitty job). Therefore our women went crazy due to the whole situation and I have talked about this with other people since I am not the only one that is notcing this. Yes, women tend to have more feelings and insecurities but the situation in the field is evidently worse than it should be when it comes to male/female dynamics. For example if you call me for weeks and then cry into the phone that is something I see as drama. You help the person, you show understanding but on the long run this is unsustainable since I just can't take more of that anymore. Especially since my productivity level started to drop and I could not afford that. Or you go on a date and the girl says that she would like to see you again and after that she just starts to ignore you. Once I met in person a girl that I have liked and she was a ENFP/ENTP and liked me back but I just could not handle the fact that she smokes 3-4 packages of cigarettes a day. Therefore I have stoped deeper introduction in the start.


I have tried to get with women from kindergarten age: they were not overly interested. At age of 1 to 8th grade they have openly ignored me and later I went to education paths where women are clear minority. Also for the last 5 years I was very busy so I did not have that much time for anything and that includes women. I was basically completely unactive on this forum from 2010 to about a month ago. However even during that time I have tried to date about 10 women, but eveytime there was a clear dealbraker or there was so much constant drama that it was basically irrelevant what is causing it. I trully do not think that I am grounded in my picture of the world but I just did not manage to hit where I should have or I just wasn't interested enough.



Why I believe that I will not be awkward ? I have invested is social skills, what makes my past somewhat irrelevant and I plan to find someone with who I trully have a full understanding. I have started to check large amount of women and places they can be found so the odds are that I will with time find someone that is right for me. MBTI is basically irrelevent to me but since we are on MBTI forum and in the ENFP/INTJ thread the MBTI gets into talk more than it should.
Also a few months ago I have solved my old problem which is that I had a subtle breathing problems and because of that I had a energy deficit and I was often sleepy. Now that this has changed and many other problems got solved as well I have changed so much that I have a certain identity crisis. Since now the very old idea that I am an ENTJ that just could not empathize with his shity and dramatic environment seems more stabile than ever. I use Fi more as a inferior than tertiary fuction and e8 collapses to e5 while e1 is often mistyped as e5. What ovrall means that I may look as INTJ as face value but I may no actually be one. Especially since I am born in Communist dictatorship and grow up in the shitstorm in which it was impossible to fulfill the capitalistic ENTJ stereotype.



What I am saying is that you should not base your opinions about ENFP/INTJ dinamic on me.

Ok - now we're getting somewhere. Thank you for sharing all of that. That does help have a more clear picture of you and your environment. I wasn't getting that as I'm not from a place that has experienced such savage misconduct. Empathizing with all of that is difficult comprehension as well. A great option may be to refer to Maslow's hierarchy because it seems implausible that, given the hostility and strife, a woman capable of what you're looking for may even not exist in such circumstances; and rightfully so. I see where you are coming from now. Curious? How did you retain some functionality within that environment? You certainly don't read/sound like a fucked up person. What coping mechanisms have you constructed to function this way?

But (see bold) - all INTJ's eventually say that. It's almost cliche.

Since I'm ENFP, I'm curious to know what similarities you have noticed thus far? What is different, if anything? What are the most difficult aspects of their personality for you to cope with? Other than emotion...Most INTJ's I know are very good at "reading" me. Tell me what you see...

I'm, if anything, skeptical about the ENFP/INTJ ideal. I find it to be grossly romanticized by people that desire a "soulmate" connection within a relationship. So, they read a description of the dynamic and desire that. IMO that's no different than watching a romantic comedy and desiring to have a well scripted version of life.

Excellent that your in better health. I like hearing that. What do you spend time doing with your extra energy?

As I study further into the MBTI concept it becomes more clear that I may have started life more INFJ. As healing has been prompted into my life in the last decade, there's been an awakening. Now, it's pretty clear the ENFP force is strong with this one. So it could definitely be possible that you just weren't allowed to express your true self in that awful environment. Regardless, I'm impressed that in consideration the theory of Maslow's and your environment, you've achieved abundant self-actualization. Intriguing. Please share your insight as to why this is more true for you than other people in this environment?

 

[Virtual ghost]

Ok - now we're getting somewhere. Thank you for sharing all of that. That does help have a more clear picture of you and your environment. I wasn't getting that as I'm not from a place that has experienced such savage misconduct. Empathizing with all of that is difficult comprehension as well. A great option may be to refer to Maslow's hierarchy because it seems implausible that, given the hostility and strife, a woman capable of what you're looking for may even not exist in such circumstances; and rightfully so. I see where you are coming from now. Curious? How did you retain some functionality within that environment? You certainly don't read/sound like a fucked up person. What coping mechanisms have you constructed to function this way?

But (see bold) - all INTJ's eventually say that. It's almost cliche.

Since I'm ENFP, I'm curious to know what similarities you have noticed thus far? What is different, if anything? What are the most difficult aspects of their personality for you to cope with? Other than emotion...Most INTJ's I know are very good at "reading" me. Tell me what you see...

I'm, if anything, skeptical about the ENFP/INTJ ideal. I find it to be grossly romanticized by people that desire a "soulmate" connection within a relationship. So, they read a description of the dynamic and desire that. IMO that's no different than watching a romantic comedy and desiring to have a well scripted version of life.

Excellent that your in better health. I like hearing that. What do you spend time doing with your extra energy?

As I study further into the MBTI concept it becomes more clear that I may have started life more INFJ. As healing has been prompted into my life in the last decade, there's been an awakening. Now, it's pretty clear the ENFP force is strong with this one. So it could definitely be possible that you just weren't allowed to express your true self in that awful environment. Regardless, I'm impressed that in consideration the theory of Maslow's and your environment, you've achieved abundant self-actualization. Intriguing. Please share your insight as to why this is more true for you than other people in this environment?

Well that is maybe a cliche but I have experianced many things that INTJs in your environment did not and that means that I am not good example for someone like you. In other words, because of this my conclusions can be be misleading to you. Of course you can examine me as a interesting individual but that is not the main reason why you are here. Anyway, just for the sake of context I will say that am from Eastern Europe.
The girls I prefer exist even here but they are rare and somewhat hard to meet. The girls I was trying to hook up were the girls that are interesting to me and the only trick is that I have to find one that is emotionally healthy.



It is funny thing that you mention Maslow's hierarchy since it offers pretty good foundation for explanation of what I did. I have basically aquired the most basic physical needs and from there I went directly into self actualization, what basically means development of intellect, problem solving etc. However I have pretty much skiped the emotional/social part of the piramid and now I am going back since I want to fulfill this hole that was left behind. I know that I do not really sound as a person with problems and that is exactly because of my shield that protects me from emotional impacts of environment. The consequence of that is that I can seem heartless at first but the overal effect is actully positive since I have preserved emotional health for the most part. However since you are mentioning force I will say that I have developed pretty Darth Vader-ish personality over the years that was basically the mechanism that keept people away and allowed me to have an impact at any time even if I am an "outsider".



To tell you the truth I did not achieve that much, in general I am still pretty obviously above average but not nearly as high as I would like. The trick is that I have spent plenty of time alone and I have used that time for learning. Actually my parents did not socialize me at all until I was 5, so my early years come down to watching pictures in science books and playing chess. For me people and society that was messed up as it was were always a burden and almost never a source of joy, so I have always tried to keep the distance as much as possible.


I now do nothing different than before I solved my breathing problem. The only difference is that I now have easier time to do what I have or want to do. (and my concentration is better now)


Regarding ENFPs. I would not even say that feeling is the real problem, the real problem is more on a P/J level since I am not random person at all. I am constantly planning something and I do not even have a problem with giving people my request of what I think/believe they should do next. (or what we should do togather) However ENFPs are playful people and to them this seem wrong and then they get emotional, however their emotion will probaly not land on my emotion and then they start the debate that I am cold, evil or something like that. What I find frustrating because I had a plan from which we both should profit and our tomorrow would be nicer and better because of that. The typical ENFP doesn't think about tomorrow too much in a concrete sense and that can be taxing. ENFPs have great potential for me but in the real world I am not sure that this is a best bet. (for both sides)

 

[Coriolis]

I agree with this about expecting partners to compensate for their deficits. Also, consider that sometimes this compensation happens naturally and really builds a healthy co-dependence. A.K.A - complimentary compatibility. However, shouldn't be the "expectation". Everyone should be doing their own work in themselves. If you find a partner willing to take their strengths and press the forward momentum, even better!

Having complementary qualities can be very good for a relationship. If these are instead compensatory - it isn't so good. That suggests that one or the other person is unable to make it on their own in some respect, rather than simply that the two of them can accomplish and enjoy more together. I trust you see the distinction.

Curious? What was the experience of dating someone without experience like? Did they make a lot of mistakes? Did you feel like a teacher more than a partner? What benefits vs. obstacles did you encounter?

Well, at that time I didn't have much experience either. I think we were both just taking things and each other as we came, with minimal assumptions and expectations. In that respect I think it was good. Experience can easily translate into baggage and unrealistic expectations, of yourself or of your partner. It can also help you understand your own likes and dislikes better, but if partners are open, honest, and see each other as individuals, that should sort itself out anyway. One time I did date someone with much more experience than I had. That made me uncomfortable because I felt he was always comparing me with previous gfs, even though he never said anything about that. We had fun for a few months, but it became clear that we just weren't right for each other, and we drifted amicably apart.

Ok. I hear that. If we were talking about any relationship with any person, I may agree. But, he doesn't want a relationship to develop with just any type: he's specifically looking for an ENFP. ENFP and confidence during the beginning of a relationship = uh uh. We second guess everything and lose ourselves for a little bit in the beginning. We get it back though. Just not right away. I have found that I get so confused about what I'm experiencing because I feel before I think. I've had to learn to stop, separate, and think before impulsively acting. It takes me time to process so I retreat to think about what it is I'm feeling. I eventually do come around and am able to express what I want and need clearly and concisely, but not during the flood of intense emotions at the upstart.

I understand all relationships will be different, but would venture that my comment about confidence applies across the board. Not that you never second-guess yourself or get confused and rethink. The confidence I mean is bigger than that. It is the sense that, even if the relationship fails in the worst way, you will be OK on your own. You don't need your partner to keep going or even to have a good life; you want him to keep going with you, so you both can have a better life. If your posts here are any indication, I doubt you are lacking in this regard.

The fact is that I tend to score very high on both T and J and therefore with all women I tend to have similar problems.

Have you met any NT or TJ women? They might be more compatible with your personality and preferences, and also may have been better able, as you did, to stay emotionally healthty despite all the negative things going on in your area.

In my generation there are plenty of unhealthy people and many of them are women since they took the genocide more personally and they can't start a family since there is no money or resurces in general. Also the unemloypemt is so high that the chances that they will get a job are minimal (and even if they get it, it will be a pretty shitty job). Therefore our women went crazy due to the whole situation and I have talked about this with other people since I am not the only one that is notcing this. Yes, women tend to have more feelings and insecurities but the situation in the field is evidently worse than it should be when it comes to male/female dynamics.

How people respond to situations like this is more type dependent than gender dependent. Again, women closer to you in type may have handled it more as you did and be less likely to demonstrate these behaviors that you find (and I would agree) are off-putting and counterproductive.

At the risk of providing advice that makes no sense in your part of the world: you may have better luck finding compatible women not by looking for women explicitly, but simply by expanding the circle of people you interact with and keeping your eyes open. By that I mean: look around at work or school. Join clubs, volunteer groups, etc. Choose activities you really enjoy or care about, and focus your presence on the topic or activity at hand. Then you know you have at least something in common with the women you will run into, a low-pressure and low-stakes occasion to interact, and can evaluate them at leisure in that setting. I have met everyone I have ever dated in this way.

 

[Hapyniss]

Well that is maybe a cliche but I have experianced many things that INTJs in your environment did not and that means that I am not good example for someone like you. In other words, because of this my conclusions can be be misleading to you. Of course you can examine me as a interesting individual but that is not the main reason why you are here. Anyway, just for the sake of context I will say that am from Eastern Europe.
The girls I prefer exist even here but they are rare and somewhat hard to meet. The girls I was trying to hook up were the girls that are interesting to me and the only trick is that I have to find one that is emotionally healthy.



It is funny thing that you mention Maslow's hierarchy since it offers pretty good foundation for explanation of what I did. I have basically aquired the most basic physical needs and from there I went directly into self actualization, what basically means development of intellect, problem solving etc. However I have pretty much skiped the emotional/social part of the piramid and now I am going back since I want to fulfill this hole that was left behind. I know that I do not really sound as a person with problems and that is exactly because of my shield that protects me from emotional impacts of environment. The consequence of that is that I can seem heartless at first but the overal effect is actully positive since I have preserved emotional health for the most part. However since you are mentioning force I will say that I have developed pretty Darth Vader-ish personality over the years that was basically the mechanism that keept people away and allowed me to have an impact at any time even if I am an "outsider".



To tell you the truth I did not achieve that much, in general I am still pretty obviously above average but not nearly as high as I would like. The trick is that I have spent plenty of time alone and I have used that time for learning. Actually my parents did not socialize me at all until I was 5, so my early years come down to watching pictures in science books and playing chess. For me people and society that was messed up as it was were always a burden and almost never a source of joy, so I have always tried to keep the distance as much as possible.


I now do nothing different than before I solved my breathing problem. The only difference is that I now have easier time to do what I have or want to do. (and my concentration is better now)


Regarding ENFPs. I would not even say that feeling is the real problem, the real problem is more on a P/J level since I am not random person at all. I am constantly planning something and I do not even have a problem with giving people my request of what I think/believe they should do next. (or what we should do togather) However ENFPs are playful people and to them this seem wrong and then they get emotional, however their emotion will probaly not land on my emotion and then they start the debate that I am cold, evil or something like that. What I find frustrating because I had a plan from which we both should profit and our tomorrow would be nicer and better because of that. The typical ENFP doesn't think about tomorrow too much in a concrete sense and that can be taxing. ENFPs have great potential for me but in the real world I am not sure that this is a best bet. (for both sides)

Interesting. What do you think is the main reason that I am here?

(Maslows) Indeed! There was an obvious paradox as you were explaining how you bypassed the natural order to self-actualization. Or, at least, that's how I summarized your experience in realizing why and how you are the way that is natural to you. Most people that I've encountered, even in our 30's, are only in the early stages of self-actualization. It's an amazing process to witness in my friends as they become more comfortable with who they are. My personal enjoyment is experiencing the awakening in all of my friends as they passionately initiate new interests or pursue education they were previously afraid to pursue. I really feel that my 30's are indeed my prime, as is there's. How do you feel about being in your 30's? Other than a romantic relationship and perhaps education, what would you like to puruse before you turn 40?

With the P/J differences, do you think that a emotionally healthy ENFP may help you become more spontaneous? We're very in the moment, aren't we? I do like that about myself, though. Trying to balance that with a better plan is something that I've made a main focus in my 30's as I've seen the disadvantages to making impulsive decisions. I believe that's what I appreciate about the idea of a healthy relationship with an INTJ. You seem to have a natural ability to plan ahead, and even more, well ahead then what may even be neccesary. I don't think an ENFP would be adverse to an excellent well thought out plan, or at least I can speak for myself in saying that I wouldn't. I would appreciate and respect that about having an INTJ in my life. I sometimes struggle and stretch myself to plan ahead. Not because the desire is not there, but rather, I'm not skilled at this. It takes much more time, effort, and energy then I feel I want to spare in order to make those kinds of projections with my life. If I had a good, healthy, INTJ male that I could trust I would just let him have reign with that regard and be a partner. Like Bonnie and Clyde. Lol. More like a partner in crime, hahaha.
I will say this, you don't have to take the way that she is to heart necessarily and have that be a cause of frustration or taxation to your person. It's not a personal rejection if she doesn't see the importance of your ideas. Actually, it's in the expression of these internal plans that INTJ's struggle in very much the same way that an ENFP struggles to make long term plans. Do you think you could just take a break, spend some time apart, or put a bit of space there and come back renewed and ready to try expression? I find email works really well for whatever reason. I can spend hours typing and expressing myself without hesitation. It just flows. Does it work well for you to express via email?

 

[Hapyniss]

Having complementary qualities can be very good for a relationship. If these are instead compensatory - it isn't so good. That suggests that one or the other person is unable to make it on their own in some respect, rather than simply that the two of them can accomplish and enjoy more together. I trust you see the distinction.


Well, at that time I didn't have much experience either. I think we were both just taking things and each other as we came, with minimal assumptions and expectations. In that respect I think it was good. Experience can easily translate into baggage and unrealistic expectations, of yourself or of your partner. It can also help you understand your own likes and dislikes better, but if partners are open, honest, and see each other as individuals, that should sort itself out anyway. One time I did date someone with much more experience than I had. That made me uncomfortable because I felt he was always comparing me with previous gfs, even though he never said anything about that. We had fun for a few months, but it became clear that we just weren't right for each other, and we drifted amicably apart.


I understand all relationships will be different, but would venture that my comment about confidence applies across the board. Not that you never second-guess yourself or get confused and rethink. The confidence I mean is bigger than that. It is the sense that, even if the relationship fails in the worst way, you will be OK on your own. You don't need your partner to keep going or even to have a good life; you want him to keep going with you, so you both can have a better life. If your posts here are any indication, I doubt you are lacking in this regard. [\QUOTE]

Ok. I hear what you're saying and understand what you're getting at. (Big picture vs. right now) I agree here. It's not about needing someone to fulfill or "complete" yourself. However, there is something magical about finding the right person. I've had really, really close. But, no cigar. And everywhere in between there's been different feelings. Falling in love is one of the easiest hard things I will have ever experienced in my life. It's unsettling serenity. I LOVE LOVE! And...there's my problem. Gol.

One of the most enabling relationships I've ever endeavored was with a compensatory. I'm not even sure the whole focus was realtionship oriented. It felt like we were parallel, but never intersected. How frustrating is that!? As things unraveled, he became ever controlling and his immaturity led to some very poor choices. Glad that's over, phew! I've not actually encountered a relationship potential partner where the complimentary aspects of our personalities aligned really well. I'm hoping that, if I'm patient and understanding, my INTJ will provide the same and we can explore our differences. My biggest concern here is that we may not be able to find a common theme that holds us together in the long term. But he'll be better at seeing that than I will. I'll probably ask him the next time I see him. He did mention that he didn't "see any red flags". As an INTJ, could you expound on how I should interpret that please?

 

[Hapyniss]

Having complementary qualities can be very good for a relationship. If these are instead compensatory - it isn't so good. That suggests that one or the other person is unable to make it on their own in some respect, rather than simply that the two of them can accomplish and enjoy more together. I trust you see the distinction.


Well, at that time I didn't have much experience either. I think we were both just taking things and each other as we came, with minimal assumptions and expectations. In that respect I think it was good. Experience can easily translate into baggage and unrealistic expectations, of yourself or of your partner. It can also help you understand your own likes and dislikes better, but if partners are open, honest, and see each other as individuals, that should sort itself out anyway. One time I did date someone with much more experience than I had. That made me uncomfortable because I felt he was always comparing me with previous gfs, even though he never said anything about that. We had fun for a few months, but it became clear that we just weren't right for each other, and we drifted amicably apart.


I understand all relationships will be different, but would venture that my comment about confidence applies across the board. Not that you never second-guess yourself or get confused and rethink. The confidence I mean is bigger than that. It is the sense that, even if the relationship fails in the worst way, you will be OK on your own. You don't need your partner to keep going or even to have a good life; you want him to keep going with you, so you both can have a better life. If your posts here are any indication, I doubt you are lacking in this regard.


Have you met any NT or TJ women? They might be more compatible with your personality and preferences, and also may have been better able, as you did, to stay emotionally healthty despite all the negative things going on in your area.


How people respond to situations like this is more type dependent than gender dependent. Again, women closer to you in type may have handled it more as you did and be less likely to demonstrate these behaviors that you find (and I would agree) are off-putting and counterproductive.

At the risk of providing advice that makes no sense in your part of the world: you may have better luck finding compatible women not by looking for women explicitly, but simply by expanding the circle of people you interact with and keeping your eyes open. By that I mean: look around at work or school. Join clubs, volunteer groups, etc. Choose activities you really enjoy or care about, and focus your presence on the topic or activity at hand. Then you know you have at least something in common with the women you will run into, a low-pressure and low-stakes occasion to interact, and can evaluate them at leisure in that setting. I have met everyone I have ever dated in this way.

Ok. I hear what you're saying and understand what you're getting at. (Big picture vs. right now) I agree here. It's not about needing someone to fulfill or "complete" yourself. However, there is something magical about finding the right person. I've had really, really close. But, no cigar. And everywhere in between there's been different feelings. Falling in love is one of the easiest hard things I will have ever experienced in my life. It's unsettling serenity. I LOVE LOVE! And...there's my problem. Gol.

One of the most enabling relationships I've ever endeavored was with a compensatory. I'm not even sure the whole focus was realtionship oriented. It felt like we were parallel, but never intersected. How frustrating is that!? As things unraveled, he became ever controlling and his immaturity led to some very poor choices. Glad that's over, phew! I've not actually encountered a relationship potential partner where the complimentary aspects of our personalities aligned really well. I'm hoping that, if I'm patient and understanding, my INTJ will provide the same and we can explore our differences. My biggest concern here is that we may not be able to find a common theme that holds us together in the long term. But he'll be better at seeing that than I will. I'll probably ask him the next time I see him. He did mention that he didn't "see any red flags". As an INTJ, could you expound on how I should interpret that please?

 

[Coriolis]

I've not actually encountered a relationship potential partner where the complimentary aspects of our personalities aligned really well. I'm hoping that, if I'm patient and understanding, my INTJ will provide the same and we can explore our differences. My biggest concern here is that we may not be able to find a common theme that holds us together in the long term. But he'll be better at seeing that than I will. I'll probably ask him the next time I see him. He did mention that he didn't "see any red flags". As an INTJ, could you expound on how I should interpret that please?

You are asking about the red flags comment? I don't know enough about this guy to assess his meaning with any degree of accuracy. I can only say what I would mean by such a comment. It is cautious and guarded. I would say it if I didn't see any reason why we wouldn't be right for each other, but I wanted to reserve judgment pending collection of more evidence. This would be because I thought it was too early in the relationship to make any sort of long-term commitment other than an exclusive dating relationship. Not sure how long you have been with this guy, but INTJs tend to take relationships much more slowly than other types. It's not enough for everything to be going well, and for us to be working through whatever questions or issues we might have in a "getting to know you" phase. We need the confidence that can be developed only over time.

As an illustration: my INTP and I got engaged after 2 years of knowing each other and 10 months of dating. We sort of fell into asking each other, and were rather surprised at what we had done. I then told him I wanted to wait one month before telling anyone or acting on it, just to be sure we were happy with the decision and had no second thoughts. He was fine with that. We're still together after > 15 years.

 

[Hapyniss]

Having complementary qualities can be very good for a relationship. If these are instead compensatory - it isn't so good. That suggests that one or the other person is unable to make it on their own in some respect, rather than simply that the two of them can accomplish and enjoy more together. I trust you see the distinction.


Well, at that time I didn't have much experience either. I think we were both just taking things and each other as we came, with minimal assumptions and expectations. In that respect I think it was good. Experience can easily translate into baggage and unrealistic expectations, of yourself or of your partner. It can also help you understand your own likes and dislikes better, but if partners are open, honest, and see each other as individuals, that should sort itself out anyway. One time I did date someone with much more experience than I had. That made me uncomfortable because I felt he was always comparing me with previous gfs, even though he never said anything about that. We had fun for a few months, but it became clear that we just weren't right for each other, and we drifted amicably apart.


I understand all relationships will be different, but would venture that my comment about confidence applies across the board. Not that you never second-guess yourself or get confused and rethink. The confidence I mean is bigger than that. It is the sense that, even if the relationship fails in the worst way, you will be OK on your own. You don't need your partner to keep going or even to have a good life; you want him to keep going with you, so you both can have a better life. If your posts here are any indication, I doubt you are lacking in this regard.


Have you met any NT or TJ women? They might be more compatible with your personality and preferences, and also may have been better able, as you did, to stay emotionally healthty despite all the negative things going on in your area.


How people respond to situations like this is more type dependent than gender dependent. Again, women closer to you in type may have handled it more as you did and be less likely to demonstrate these behaviors that you find (and I would agree) are off-putting and counterproductive.

At the risk of providing advice that makes no sense in your part of the world: you may have better luck finding compatible women not by looking for women explicitly, but simply by expanding the circle of people you interact with and keeping your eyes open. By that I mean: look around at work or school. Join clubs, volunteer groups, etc. Choose activities you really enjoy or care about, and focus your presence on the topic or activity at hand. Then you know you have at least something in common with the women you will run into, a low-pressure and low-stakes occasion to interact, and can evaluate them at leisure in that setting. I have met everyone I have ever dated in this way.

You are asking about the red flags comment? I don't know enough about this guy to assess his meaning with any degree of accuracy. I can only say what I would mean by such a comment. It is cautious and guarded. I would say it if I didn't see any reason why we wouldn't be right for each other, but I wanted to reserve judgment pending collection of more evidence. This would be because I thought it was too early in the relationship to make any sort of long-term commitment other than an exclusive dating relationship. Not sure how long you have been with this guy, but INTJs tend to take relationships much more slowly than other types. It's not enough for everything to be going well, and for us to be working through whatever questions or issues we might have in a "getting to know you" phase. We need the confidence that can be developed only over time.

As an illustration: my INTP and I got engaged after 2 years of knowing each other and 10 months of dating. We sort of fell into asking each other, and were rather surprised at what we had done. I then told him I wanted to wait one month before telling anyone or acting on it, just to be sure we were happy with the decision and had no second thoughts. He was fine with that. We're still together after > 15 years.

I was indeed. Thank you for your insight.

It's been only one month. I do believe that it is going well for both of us. I know he would communicate any concerns that he has because he is a very direct and honest person. We both agree that our relationship has "potential" but neither of us are really clear to say what we are just yet. I think he wants to watch and see how his concerns play out. Probably more to the point of how we handle conflict with one another. I'm extroverted and he has made mention that he believes I will get frustrated with his introversion. I asked for clarification and he expounded to say that I would be bothered if he didn't want to attend something social. I can admit that if I considered this an important social function, then yes. But, that's not to say that it would make me non-commital. I certainly wouldn't demand that he come and I would have a great time without him attending the function. That's just how I am. I won't mire and wallow should he choose to stay home, and I absolutely would still go without him. My concern is the reciprocal. That he'll be saddened that I want to do so many things out of the house, and won't mind that it's without him. So I guess we will see how that turns out. How would a situation like that make you feel?

His other concern: he's hard to live with. I believe that as I've seen some intense traits in him that we will have to find healthy ways to communicate through. Again, it sounds more like he believes that I will have more problems accepting him than he does me.

He does compare me to his other past experiences quite a bit right now. So I'm watching to see if he makes a transition in his mind to me as a stand alone individual capable of a healthy relationship with him. I can tell he's been hurt and is leary of moving quickly with us. I'm ok with that.

2 years doesn't seem like much of a long time, actually. That's a very good amount of time to consider a relationships potential and then to experience a few yearly cycles with one another. Very smart of both of you. Congrats on the 15years. That really speaks volumes to your person and compatability. I like hearing that people have been able to make a long standing commitment to each other; feels like I can be hopeful.

 

[Coriolis]

It's been only one month. I do believe that it is going well for both of us. I know he would communicate any concerns that he has because he is a very direct and honest person. We both agree that our relationship has "potential" but neither of us are really clear to say what we are just yet. I think he wants to watch and see how his concerns play out. Probably more to the point of how we handle conflict with one another. I'm extroverted and he has made mention that he believes I will get frustrated with his introversion. I asked for clarification and he expounded to say that I would be bothered if he didn't want to attend something social. I can admit that if I considered this an important social function, then yes. But, that's not to say that it would make me non-commital. I certainly wouldn't demand that he come and I would have a great time without him attending the function. That's just how I am. I won't mire and wallow should he choose to stay home, and I absolutely would still go without him. My concern is the reciprocal. That he'll be saddened that I want to do so many things out of the house, and won't mind that it's without him. So I guess we will see how that turns out. How would a situation like that make you feel?

Well, I have never really had to face this sort of thing, since my SO is an introvert too, and our socializing habits are quite compatible. If they were not, and I wanted to make the relationship work, I would probably work out a compromise. I might agree to accompany him on occasion, or to particularly important social functions, but expect to be let off the hook for other things. I wouldn't mind his socializing outside of this, as long as it didn't impact our time together (e.g. he was doing it every night).

His other concern: he's hard to live with. I believe that as I've seen some intense traits in him that we will have to find healthy ways to communicate through. Again, it sounds more like he believes that I will have more problems accepting him than he does me.

This is probably true, if only because we have a greater ability to detach from our environment and lose ourselves in what is currently holding our interest. We can be very live-and-let-live, meaning we will tolerate much as long as it doesn't interfere with our doing our thing. You might be more bothered by whatever he does that rubs you the wrong way unless you can develop a similar detachment.

He does compare me to his other past experiences quite a bit right now. So I'm watching to see if he makes a transition in his mind to me as a stand alone individual capable of a healthy relationship with him. I can tell he's been hurt and is leary of moving quickly with us. I'm ok with that.

If he has been hurt, that will serve only to make him more cautious, and his timeline longer.

2 years doesn't seem like much of a long time, actually. That's a very good amount of time to consider a relationships potential and then to experience a few yearly cycles with one another. Very smart of both of you. Congrats on the 15years. That really speaks volumes to your person and compatability. I like hearing that people have been able to make a long standing commitment to each other; feels like I can be hopeful.

Sadly several couples we know have split up lately, so longevity is no guarantee of permanence, but we are hopeful. As your fellow said, still no red flags after all this time.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Have you met any NT or TJ women? They might be more compatible with your personality and preferences, and also may have been better able, as you did, to stay emotionally healthty despite all the negative things going on in your area.


How people respond to situations like this is more type dependent than gender dependent. Again, women closer to you in type may have handled it more as you did and be less likely to demonstrate these behaviors that you find (and I would agree) are off-putting and counterproductive.

At the risk of providing advice that makes no sense in your part of the world: you may have better luck finding compatible women not by looking for women explicitly, but simply by expanding the circle of people you interact with and keeping your eyes open. By that I mean: look around at work or school. Join clubs, volunteer groups, etc. Choose activities you really enjoy or care about, and focus your presence on the topic or activity at hand. Then you know you have at least something in common with the women you will run into, a low-pressure and low-stakes occasion to interact, and can evaluate them at leisure in that setting. I have met everyone I have ever dated in this way.

I believe you have a wrong pricture about me. This is a ENFP/INTJ thread so I talk about ENFPs, but I do not consider them to be ideal partners for me. Plus this is exactly how I meet women, forcing a dinamic does not seem to work or give good results. I have long time ago said that an ideal women for me has to be either T or a J and if it possible both would be nice. Especially since I have xNFP mother and ISFP father so I had my dosage of Fi and I do not have a need to explore that part of the spectrum. I prefer to live with a lot of zeal and FPs do not like that in general. Somewhere around here there was the test that determines which type is trully your best partner towars your personal preferences and I ended up with ENTJ.


I have met both NT and TJ women but there was no real chemistry or things did not work out because of things that have nothing to do with type. However I still find that I have much easier time dealing with them than with women that are on the other side of spectrum. However I have noticed that we in this part of the world tend to have different type demography than what MBTI tests done in USA suggest. We tend to have much more SPs and Ps in general than USA since there is no stabile structure and every 20 years or so there is some kind of revolution or a war. Therefore people tend to be: what will be tomorrow will be tomorrow and I will think about it tomorrow. While I am going against this by saying that exactly because of this we are going from shit to shit. Especially since there is no real master plan of any kind, laws are not enforced and they are constantly remade, deals are broken all the time, you come to lecture and figure that no one was even assigned to be a lecturer ... tec. I am currently living in the city where our Major has gathered about 170 affairs over the last 20 years and no one is really bothered by this. People even vote for him all the time because he managed to stay away from jail and people see that as a sign of competence. City infrastructure is falling apart, spending is out of control and affairs are too numerous to count ... but he must keep his job because he avoids presecution for years. This is out of mind logic and I just can't watch people around me ... so I am coming to places like this one to talk with sane people. The problem with this is that there is no private initiatives and everthing is dependant on corrupt centers of power, what means that I have a problem that I am too independent and people of all types can see this as a problem or the character flaw. However it seems that I will also have to eat a shit or two if I plan to eat in the future since the education phase of my life in now clearly over. Women prefer security and a man that rejects to eat shit will probably be a bad provider in a place such as this one. I never wanted this but the fact is that I will probably have to move out of my country just as people from my generaltion are doing in mass.



One of the silliest things that have ever happned to me was with ENTJ girl. We have met online and ENTJ was just screaming out of her and she was quite pretty as well. Therefore we started talking and with time I have said that I like her for who she is. She replied with "HOW CAN YOU LIKE ME !? I am loud, I am controlling, I am tend to be insensitive (especially for a women) ... " and then I said that I exactly like her for who she is. And what did she do ? She placed me on ignore because she though that I was trolling her. It always amazes how much talent women have in overcomplicating things.

Interesting. What do you think is the main reason that I am here?

(Maslows) Indeed! There was an obvious paradox as you were explaining how you bypassed the natural order to self-actualization. Or, at least, that's how I summarized your experience in realizing why and how you are the way that is natural to you. Most people that I've encountered, even in our 30's, are only in the early stages of self-actualization. It's an amazing process to witness in my friends as they become more comfortable with who they are. My personal enjoyment is experiencing the awakening in all of my friends as they passionately initiate new interests or pursue education they were previously afraid to pursue. I really feel that my 30's are indeed my prime, as is there's. How do you feel about being in your 30's? Other than a romantic relationship and perhaps education, what would you like to puruse before you turn 40?

With the P/J differences, do you think that a emotionally healthy ENFP may help you become more spontaneous? We're very in the moment, aren't we? I do like that about myself, though. Trying to balance that with a better plan is something that I've made a main focus in my 30's as I've seen the disadvantages to making impulsive decisions. I believe that's what I appreciate about the idea of a healthy relationship with an INTJ. You seem to have a natural ability to plan ahead, and even more, well ahead then what may even be neccesary. I don't think an ENFP would be adverse to an excellent well thought out plan, or at least I can speak for myself in saying that I wouldn't. I would appreciate and respect that about having an INTJ in my life. I sometimes struggle and stretch myself to plan ahead. Not because the desire is not there, but rather, I'm not skilled at this. It takes much more time, effort, and energy then I feel I want to spare in order to make those kinds of projections with my life. If I had a good, healthy, INTJ male that I could trust I would just let him have reign with that regard and be a partner. Like Bonnie and Clyde. Lol. More like a partner in crime, hahaha.
I will say this, you don't have to take the way that she is to heart necessarily and have that be a cause of frustration or taxation to your person. It's not a personal rejection if she doesn't see the importance of your ideas. Actually, it's in the expression of these internal plans that INTJ's struggle in very much the same way that an ENFP struggles to make long term plans. Do you think you could just take a break, spend some time apart, or put a bit of space there and come back renewed and ready to try expression? I find email works really well for whatever reason. I can spend hours typing and expressing myself without hesitation. It just flows. Does it work well for you to express via email?

Well I am in my 30s for only a few months so I can't say that I see major differences. Plus I do not place too much value on "now I am in my x so this is the right time for me to do y". Especially since I have to adapt to the chaotic situations in my environment since we have a war or revolution every 20 years or so. Just as we speak neighbouring countries to mine are building barbed wire fences and control posts on the borders, high politics and public can't get any real agreement over many things and overal sitaution lately was never bad as it is now. Especially since superstructure that holds everthing togather is falling apart.
This is actually exactly how I came to be what I am ... I invest in myself, I find a way to be as much as independed in the terms of resources and have minimum expenses to maintain independance. For me it is more what I will get instead of what I want. But if we don't count women and career I would prefer to travel the world more since I have visited only 6 countries so far.



Yes an ENFP would help me to become more spontaneous, the only problem is that do not really want to become more spontaneous. Also I have no doubt that ENFP likes a well though plan, the real dilemma is more of a "will she fulfill her end of the deal" ? Or she will become bored after a week ?
I do not think that realationship with too long pauses is a good idea or that this is good for the relationship, but spending a few days apart is not somthing that I consider to be a bad idea.
In general I express myself much better in written form while verbaly I am much more blunt.

 

[Hapyniss]

I believe you have a wrong pricture about me. This is a ENFP/INTJ thread so I talk about ENFPs, but I do not consider them to be ideal partners for me. Plus this is exactly how I meet women, forcing a dinamic does not seem to work or give good results. I have long time ago said that an ideal women for me has to be either T or a J and if it possible both would be nice. Especially since I have xNFP mother and ISFP father so I had my dosage of Fi and I do not have a need to explore that part of the spectrum. I prefer to live with a lot of zeal and FPs do not like that in general. Somewhere around here there was the test that determines which type is trully your best partner towars your personal preferences and I ended up with ENTJ.


I have met both NT and TJ women but there was no real chemistry or things did not work out because of things that have nothing to do with type. However I still find that I have much easier time dealing with them than with women that are on the other side of spectrum. However I have noticed that we in this part of the world tend to have different type demography than what MBTI tests done in USA suggest. We tend to have much more SPs and Ps in general than USA since there is no stabile structure and every 20 years or so there is some kind of revolution or a war. Therefore people tend to be: what will be tomorrow will be tomorrow and I will think about it tomorrow. While I am going against this by saying that exactly because of this we are going from shit to shit. Especially since there is no real master plan of any kind, laws are not enforced and they are constantly remade, deals are broken all the time, you come to lecture and figure that no one was even assigned to be a lecturer ... tec. I am currently living in the city where our Major has gathered about 170 affairs over the last 20 years and no one is really bothered by this. People even vote for him all the time because he managed to stay away from jail and people see that as a sign of competence. City infrastructure is falling apart, spending is out of control and affairs are too numerous to count ... but he must keep his job because he avoids presecution for years. This is out of mind logic and I just can't watch people around me ... so I am coming to places like this one to talk with sane people. The problem with this is that there is no private initiatives and everthing is dependant on corrupt centers of power, what means that I have a problem that I am too independent and people of all types can see this as a problem or the character flaw. However it seems that I will also have to eat a shit or two if I plan to eat in the future since the education phase of my life in now clearly over. Women prefer security and a man that rejects to eat shit will probably be a bad provider in a place such as this one. I never wanted this but the fact is that I will probably have to move out of my country just as people from my generaltion are doing in mass.



One of the silliest things that have ever happned to me was with ENTJ girl. We have met online and ENTJ was just screaming out of her and she was quite pretty as well. Therefore we started talking and with time I have said that I like her for who she is. She replied with "HOW CAN YOU LIKE ME !? I am loud, I am controlling, I am tend to be insensitive (especially for a women) ... " and then I said that I exactly like her for who she is. And what did she do ? She placed me on ignore because she though that I was trolling her. It always amazes how much talent women have in overcomplicating things.










Well I am in my 30s for only a few months so I can't say that I see major differences. Plus I do not place too much value on "now I am in my x so this is the right time for me to do y". Especially since I have to adapt to the chaotic situations in my environment since we have a war or revolution every 20 years or so. Just as we speak neighbouring countries to mine are building barbed wire fences and control posts on the borders, high politics and public can't get any real agreement over many things and overal sitaution lately was never bad as it is now. Especially since superstructure that holds everthing togather is falling apart.
This is actually exactly how I came to be what I am ... I invest in myself, I find a way to be as much as independed in the terms of resources and have minimum expenses to maintain independance. For me it is more what I will get instead of what I want. But if we don't count women and career I would prefer to travel the world more since I have visited only 6 countries so far.



Yes an ENFP would help me to become more spontaneous, the only problem is that do not really want to become more spontaneous. Also I have no doubt that ENFP likes a well though plan, the real dilemma is more of a "will she fulfill her end of the deal" ? Or she will become bored after a week ?
I do not think that realationship with too long pauses is a good idea or that this is good for the relationship, but spending a few days apart is not somthing that I consider to be a bad idea.
In general I express myself much better in written form while verbaly I am much more blunt.

Don't you dare mistake my niceties and curiosities as a lack of ZEAL! Ack! Not that you were. I'm just saying. Tee hee! I live with a great deal of zeal, gumption, and spunk! Outwardly, I know what is projected by my overall demeanor, but if someone should mistake that as a push over...I feel bad for them. THIS WOMAN IS NO MUD MAT!

What do you consider "too long of a pause?" I haven't spoken with or seen my INTJ in a week. He's emailed me 2x to let me know he is sick and that he wants to see me as soon as he's feeling better. So I took him at his word and haven't contacted him so he can rest up and get better. What is your thought on that amount of time? Should I have at least checked in with him? (Now I think of it.)

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah, trolling huh? What's a guy gotta do to get an ENTJ around here anyways? Sheesh.

Ooooooooo...travel. Where have you traveled to?

 

[Virtual ghost]

Don't you dare mistake my niceties and curiosities as a lack of ZEAL! Ack! Not that you were. I'm just saying. Tee hee! I live with a great deal of zeal, gumption, and spunk! Outwardly, I know what is projected by my overall demeanor, but if someone should mistake that as a push over...I feel bad for them. THIS WOMAN IS NO MUD MAT!

What do you consider "too long of a pause?" I haven't spoken with or seen my INTJ in a week. He's emailed me 2x to let me know he is sick and that he wants to see me as soon as he's feeling better. So I took him at his word and haven't contacted him so he can rest up and get better. What is your thought on that amount of time? Should I have at least checked in with him? (Now I think of it.)

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah, trolling huh? What's a guy gotta do to get an ENTJ around here anyways? Sheesh.

Ooooooooo...travel. Where have you traveled to?

I am not mistaking anything. You have a zeal but zeal 24/7 is just not a ENFP thing.


I would say that "too big pause" trully depends on the cirmcumstances and people. However if the pause was not because someone had a long business trip or something similar everthing above 2 to 3 weeks is too much. Since this means that romantic/sexual interest is not really strong.


That situation with trolling the ENTJ chick was just silly, especially from her side. None the less this is understandable since they are so rarely liked and they see this as impossible scenario. Statistically it is more likely to be that I am just some drunk or horny idiot that talks shit. (especially if they do not know about typology, what is quite common case where I live)


Traveling ? Just neighbouring or nearby countries. Hungary, Austria, Slovenia, Bosnia, Italy, Germany.
You are not traveling ?

 

[Coriolis]

That situation with trolling the ENTJ chick was just silly, especially from her side. None the less this is understandable since they are so rarely liked and they see this as impossible scenario. Statistically it is more likely to be that I am just some drunk or horny idiot that talks shit. (especially if they do not know about typology, what is quite common case where I live)

This is quite plausible. If she has been told the same by other men, only to find out they were in fact trolling, she will be predisposed to mistrust the man who really means it.

 

[Belle of Kilronan]

Well I'm surprised you haven't answered your own question... or maybe you have but it still 'feels' scary. You seems o have the INTJ/ENFP conundrum all sewn up. But just incase... you do need to tell him this.. it is early days ... and truthfully he wouldn't be in your life at all unless he really really wanted to. INTJ's do not bother with anyone unless they see some benefit in it and they generally do all their assessing before anything begins. But the INTJ does have difficulty understanding why the fluttery ENFP wants so much reassurance when he has told her something once he does not understand why it needs repeating.

Have some kind of code word for wanting reassurance -if he understands it will make you feel more comfortable he will probably be into 'fixing' the situation.

Careful though, INTJ's do not commit easily but once they do they are usually in it for the long haul... if you do not know what you really want it may be like getting blood from a stone. It can be hard to know what you really want when you are just experiencing things anew... though as mentioned the INTJ will likely have already summarised the pro's and con's and come to a conclusion about what they want in their future. You could ask them if you are in this vision just be prepared for an honest answer.

Naw. To all of this.

 

[Belle of Kilronan]

You do realize - not all ENFPs are female, and not all INTJs male.

E-fucking-xactly. Jesus.

 

[Hapyniss]

I am not mistaking anything. You have a zeal but zeal 24/7 is just not a ENFP thing.


I would say that "too big pause" trully depends on the cirmcumstances and people. However if the pause was not because someone had a long business trip or something similar everthing above 2 to 3 weeks is too much. Since this means that romantic/sexual interest is not really strong.


That situation with trolling the ENTJ chick was just silly, especially from her side. None the less this is understandable since they are so rarely liked and they see this as impossible scenario. Statistically it is more likely to be that I am just some drunk or horny idiot that talks shit. (especially if they do not know about typology, what is quite common case where I live)


Traveling ? Just neighbouring or nearby countries. Hungary, Austria, Slovenia, Bosnia, Italy, Germany.
You are not traveling ?

Then I would say I'm not a typical ENFP because I'm hella spunky ALL the time! I am constantly telling people "keep up".

My family lineage stems from Czech Rep region and Slovenia. I've never been. I've been to the typical American touristy areas of Canada and Mexico. I've been to 40 of the 50 states and have enjoyed many road trips. I've not ever been off the continent, but wish I really could travel abroad. Italy and France would be first choices. I've always been affectionate in my mind for them.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Then I would say I'm not a typical ENFP because I'm hella spunky ALL the time! I am constantly telling people "keep up".

My family lineage stems from Czech Rep region and Slovenia. I've never been. I've been to the typical American touristy areas of Canada and Mexico. I've been to 40 of the 50 states and have enjoyed many road trips. I've not ever been off the continent, but wish I really could travel abroad. Italy and France would be first choices. I've always been affectionate in my mind for them.

Cool. I am from Croatia but I also have part of the famility tree comming from Slovenia. What is not really that surprising since over the last few centuries Slovenia and Croatia were the same country over 90% of that time. Even the Czech republic was also part of the so called Austro-Hungarian empire, what basically means that my and your ancestors are from the same country. (that no longer exists)


Perhaps the zeal is not the ideal word but somehow that is how I feel about it. ENFPs have plenty of energy but that energy is almost never focused and therefore it is lost. However I could be biased since all female ENFPs that I have met had some form of ADHD.

 

[Betty Blue]

Naw. To all of this.

For you? Or do you speak on behalf of INTJ's? Male INTJ'? Female INTJ's? Please elaborate.

I'm going on personal experience, experience of others I know and experience of five years on this and other Mbti/personality forums (does not mean i think my experience better or myself more knowledgeable but it's pretty annoying when a 27 post member comes along and says 'naaawwww' with nothing to back it up.... appreciate my experience is mainly from male INTJ to female ENFP but it certainly can work pretty similarly the other way round too, however the poster was female ENFP with a male INTJ... sooo...


Edit to say I don't think INTJ ENFP is the best pairing, i'm not all gung-ho feck yeah unstoppable force+immovable object=nirvana

 

[Belle of Kilronan]

Your post discounts INTJ females and their experiences. Your post demonstrates and promotes a stereotypical view of male to female relationships. Your post also doesn't take into account how differently people develop, regardless of mbti type. The anecdotal evidence you accumulated over the years doesn't wash out that fact. Thus, you cannot comfortably speak on any authority at all about a MBTI group that's frankly in the minority, with widely variably experiences, reactions, and attitudes toward things. My post count doesn't matter in this. You have a considerable amount of posts, yet you still use typist generalizations like you just signed on here.