[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

[EJCC]

EJCC,

Do you ever find yourself rushing to finish a task-just to have completed it and removed it from your list?

Yes. Absolutely. The ESTJ "git-r-done" mindset, when frustrated and under pressure, can easily transform into a mindset of "I just want this to be OVER with!!!" ...meaning that I'll sometimes do the bare minimum on things so I can cross it off my to-do list and get to "more important things".

Also-Very young ESTJs-and even myself when in Te mode-can be a bit blunt, and well, sometimes appear rude. Did you face this when very young and if so, how long did it take to learn to be more smooth in delivery? Do you find certain communication techniques to be more useful when dealing with sensitive individuals?

I did face this when I was young. I, as well as everyone else I knew, mistook it for arrogance, but I'm not so sure in retrospect. It may have simply been a lack of a filter. I think it took me most of my adolescence to learn to think about others' feelings before I spoke. A lot of people face this, and sometimes they handle it with white lies, but I'm still averse to lying. Therefore, here's what I've learned to do, with sensitive people.

Example...
Friend: "Does this dress make me look fat?"
What the friend wants me to say: "No, you look fabulous."
What I want to say: "Yes, it does."
What I say: "It's not the most figure-flattering dress I've seen on you. Maybe we should look for something that puts more of an emphasis on your waist."

In other words... since I've gotten more mature, I've learned the value of diplomatic language.

Also, you've probably noticed that the way I communicate online is very... deliberate. That's another way I make sure that people aren't offended by things I say/write. I take precautions. I'm careful.

 

[Redbone]

If an ESTJ says, "I love you", it's very serious, right? Someone may have covered this already but I don't have time to read back through here.

 

[EJCC]

If an ESTJ says, "I love you", it's very serious, right? Someone may have covered this already but I don't have time to read back through here.

I don't remember if anyone asked it before. Too long ago! But the answer to your question is YES. We're not the types of people who say "I love you" to just about anyone. We almost never beat around the bush or say things we don't mean, and the same rule applies here. When an ESTJ is sappy without looking like they're joking around, that's serious business, and I think most people take it too lightly. I sometimes find myself responding (mentally): "I was just baring my soul! How can you be joking at a time like this??? "

 

[Redbone]

Thanks for the answer.

I know an ESTJ that has sworn for years that he loves me, that I was special to him. I always wondered whether to take him seriously or not--love or stuck in a state of long-term lust? I wonder what he sees in me, especially being INTP...

 

[Tamske]

More ESTJ-English:

"I love you" -> "I love you, or so I think"
Repeated "I love you" -> "I love you and I'm now used(*) to this strange loving thing too, so you'd better start to love me back"
(*) Remember that "used to" and "routine" are good things.

 

[Tamske]

Help! My ESTJ is actually an ISTJ!
And he doesn't like the outcome of the test. He wants to be an E
So either my test is biased towards I, or I've really got an Introvert husband...
[/ silly question]
Now a real question: how would you make questions discerning between E/I for Te users? Because I suspect most of my E/I questions are actually Fe use/not Fe use questions...

 

[EJCC]

Help! My ESTJ is actually an ISTJ!
And he doesn't like the outcome of the test. He wants to be an E
So either my test is biased towards I, or I've really got an Introvert husband...
[/ silly question]

Nah, that's not so silly. My answer: I probably wouldn't trust that test, if I were you. I test as ISTJ all the time, but I'm still really, really E. (In terms of gaining energy from people, not in terms of being extra talkative.) So if you and he are pretty sure, and if you see more Te than Si in him, and if my answers on this thread have reminded you of him, chances are that he's still an E.

Now a real question: how would you make questions discerning between E/I for Te users? Because I suspect most of my E/I questions are actually Fe use/not Fe use questions...

Well, there's always the generic one that works for all types: Are you more drained by socializing, or by time alone with no outside stimulation? Also: Would you rather be with others for a day, or with your own thoughts?

But in terms of Si dom vs. Te dom (ISTJ vs. ESTJ), I can't come up with any good questions at the moment... This thread might help you, though:

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/sj-guardhouse/11936-estj-vs-istj.html#post461776

 

[Tamske]

Well, there's always the generic one that works for all types: Are you more drained by socializing, or by time alone with no outside stimulation? Also: Would you rather be with others for a day, or with your own thoughts?

That's actually a very difficult question, both for he and for me. It depends what the day before was like. If it was a busy day full of people, I'd rather be alone, and vice versa.
Also, I've learnt this on this forum, for NTPs the E part is picky. If small-talk is expected, if the goal of the talking is "talking and connecting" rather than "discuss ideas and theories", this interaction is rather draining.

Maybe it's the same for you.
When my husband is together with colleagues, the talk turns to work and other things I'd consider boring, but he seems to enjoy it. He hates talking about the children (we don't have any yet, maybe that will change), though. I can imagine you'd hate the sort of talk that seems only to consist of compliments and gossip and relations (A said that to B and now C thinks A bullies B and said that to D and...) and with no relevant information shared...

 

[mrcockburn]

Not sure if you've already answered this, as I'm not about to sift through 85 pages, but:

A: How do you handle it when a co-worker (tactfully) points out something glaringly obvious, that you've missed?

B: How do you react when a co-worker pisses you off by coming late and holding up a big project? Do you tell them "It's OK, don't worry about it. Just try to watch the time next time." or do you berate them senseless?

 

[Tamske]

If I may hazard a guess... (answering for the ESTJ, of course)

Not sure if you've already answered this, as I'm not about to sift through 85 pages, but:
A: How do you handle it when a co-worker (tactfully) points out something glaringly obvious, that you've missed?

If it's too tactful, we won't realize something is wrong. If, on the contrary, the co-worker is rational and to the point, we'll slap our heads and thank the coworker. Best way to point out mistakes to an ESTJ:
"ESTJ, there's something wrong here. Look,..."

B: How do you react when a co-worker pisses you off by coming late and holding up a big project? Do you tell them "It's OK, don't worry about it. Just try to watch the time next time." or do you berate them senseless?

Make sure everybody (especially the boss) knows who's responsible for holding up the project.
More problematic is it when it's the boss himself who holds up the project. My husband has that problem - his boss is very competent and friendly, he likes him, but boss has no grasp on time management. He complains to his wife about this... (and wife, who has at least a little grasp on time management, feels proud of herself) AND he nags the boss!

 

[Lex Talionis]

Hey all! I made this thread in response to a few things:

1. My experience with the rampant misconceptions about ESTJs that so many members have here (based on very limited personal experience, if any),
2. Loads of random people on TypoC asking me questions about the ESTJs in their lives, because I'm one of the only semi-actively-posting ESTJs here, and
3. All the people who want me (and the other ESTJs here) to try to make a difference on this site.

Here's the idea: if anybody has any questions that only an ESTJ can answer (and please, no spamming!), do so here. I'll do my best to help you out. Also, I reqest that other ESTJs help out on this thread here too. This doesn't have to be a one-woman battle! But you obviously shouldn't feel obligated to help out if you don't want to. I can do this on my own if necessary.

EDIT: Don't be afraid to post here! I won't bite.

So here I am. Questions, anyone?

I have but one question that I need answered by ESTJs, and since you are one of the few that posts on internet forums with any considerable frequency, I will use you as a proxy for all ESTJs. My question:

Do you recognize INTJs as comprising most of, if not all of, the natural aristocracy of the human race? In other words, do you recognize our natural right to rule over you?

 

[Robopop]

^ESTJs, bow before your master!

 

[Max]

I have but one question that I need answered by ESTJs, and since you are one of the few that posts on internet forums with any considerable frequency, I will use you as a proxy for all ESTJs. My question:

Do you recognize INTJs as comprising most of, if not all of, the natural aristocracy of the human race? In other words, do you recognize our natural right to rule over you?

 

[Tamske]

Do you recognize INTJs as comprising most of, if not all of, the natural aristocracy of the human race? In other words, do you recognize our natural right to rule over you?

A hierarchy(*) of ESTJs lead by an INTJ?
Eek.
I will do whatever is in my power to wreck that much-too-orderly world and rescue my husband from your grasp. Fear the randomness.

(*) What's the correct collective noun for ESTJs? It can't be a 'society' or a 'bunch'...

 

[EJCC]

That's actually a very difficult question, both for he and for me. It depends what the day before was like. If it was a busy day full of people, I'd rather be alone, and vice versa.
Also, I've learnt this on this forum, for NTPs the E part is picky. If small-talk is expected, if the goal of the talking is "talking and connecting" rather than "discuss ideas and theories", this interaction is rather draining.

Maybe it's the same for you.

It is - you're right. Although I may be more of an extrovert than the two of you, since I could probably have busy social days every day, as long as I have an hour or two to myself. But no matter how the day before was, socially speaking, if I spend more than four hours alone each day, things get bad. However, I could go for twelve hours with friends. I may not seem like I'm full of energy, but my energy level can remain consistent for a long time, if I'm around people.

I don't know, really, besides that. You're right about the E part being picky. And even extraverts need time alone. I guess I'm at a loss, then...

I'm not about to sift through 85 pages

I wouldn't either!

A: How do you handle it when a co-worker (tactfully) points out something glaringly obvious, that you've missed?

"Oh, wow. Sorry I missed that! I'll get on it right away." i.e. mild embarrassment, but mostly laughing at myself for missing it in the first place.

B: How do you react when a co-worker pisses you off by coming late and holding up a big project? Do you tell them "It's OK, don't worry about it. Just try to watch the time next time." or do you berate them senseless?

I ask them why they were late. If they have a good reason, then I forgive them right away. If not, I'll (VERY mildly) tell them off (a bit). And if anyone blames me, or the entire group, for holding up the project, then, as Tamske said, I'll make sure that person knows who's REALLY responsible.

I have but one question that I need answered by ESTJs, and since you are one of the few that posts on internet forums with any considerable frequency, I will use you as a proxy for all ESTJs. My question:

Do you recognize INTJs as comprising most of, if not all of, the natural aristocracy of the human race? In other words, do you recognize our natural right to rule over you?

Not at all! I'll recognize your right to rule if you prove yourself to be qualified to rule, and if you prove that you're worthy of respect and admiration. And that sort of thing has to be on an individual basis; i.e. we won't assume that all INTJs are qualified just because one of them is.

In other words... prove your worth!

 

[Lex Talionis]

(*) What's the correct collective noun for ESTJs? It can't be a 'society' or a 'bunch'...

I believe the correct collective noun would be "the Matrix."

 

[jlsandor]

My sister is an ESTJ and having problems with her professor(p) in the lab she is doing her masters. Summarized:
-p is a person who might change direction 2 hours prior to an important seminar sister prepared, wants things added or left out
-p sometimes does these changes herself, in a rather careless manner, copy-pasting irrelevant data if it meant job gets done immediately
-p is late for every appointment she has, and if the group is going together p claims she is late because "kids" weren't ready on time, it's not true
-p is very laid back about duties and performance generally and everything was a mess when my sister arrived (this she corrected). "it's ok, nevermind, let's grab a coffee and tell jokes" for 2-3 months and then p gets crazy, starts ordering and yelling rather unfairly right and left, wants 3-day long experiments completed "today" etc.
-after doing these p hugs, kisses and entertains "kids", taking them to dinner sometimes.

My sister does not want to quit because p is rather malleable and will let her do whatever research she might want, plus she is "settled" there.

I told her the sweetness and dinner professor provides might be her way of apologizing and she might need to accept this as it is. But understandably she is very upset and needs to talk about these issues to blow off steam frequently, which takes its toll on me (I'm quite the introvert). I also advised her to focus on her work as the most important thing and let irrelevant stuff slide. Not sure those work.

Anything else you might think of?
Thank you.

 

[EJCC]

I believe the correct collective noun would be "the Matrix."

Nah, that's INTPs
I think ESTJs come in "conglomerates".

My sister is an ESTJ and having problems with her professor(p) in the lab she is doing her masters. Summarized:
-p is a person who might change direction 2 hours prior to an important seminar sister prepared, wants things added or left out
-p sometimes does these changes herself, in a rather careless manner, copy-pasting irrelevant data if it meant job gets done immediately
-p is late for every appointment she has, and if the group is going together p claims she is late because "kids" weren't ready on time, it's not true
-p is very laid back about duties and performance generally and everything was a mess when my sister arrived (this she corrected). "it's ok, nevermind, let's grab a coffee and tell jokes" for 2-3 months and then p gets crazy, starts ordering and yelling rather unfairly right and left, wants 3-day long experiments completed "today" etc.
-after doing these p hugs, kisses and entertains "kids", taking them to dinner sometimes.

OH my GOD that would DRIVE ME UP THE FRIGGIN WALL!!!!

My sister does not want to quit because p is rather malleable and will let her do whatever research she might want, plus she is "settled" there.

I told her the sweetness and dinner professor provides might be her way of apologizing and she might need to accept this as it is. But understandably she is very upset and needs to talk about these issues to blow off steam frequently, which takes its toll on me (I'm quite the introvert). I also advised her to focus on her work as the most important thing and let irrelevant stuff slide. Not sure those work.

Anything else you might think of?
Thank you.

Has your sister talked to the professor about some of the things she does? Not, of course, the things that are in her nature, but things like how she'll unfairly blame the students. I think if you were to suggest that (or some other helpful action-y thing) to her, it might be a good idea, because often, when ESTJs vent, they're hoping that the vent-ee will suggest things that will solve the problem. We're very into problem solving.

 

[Cimarron]

When an ESTJ is sappy without looking like they're joking around, that's serious business, and I think most people take it too lightly. I sometimes find myself responding (mentally): "I was just baring my soul! How can you be joking at a time like this??? "

I can identify with that, too. After putting in that "effort" to express myself and not feel like a dork, they act like it's no big deal? Come on.

 

[Tamske]

I can identify with that, too. After putting in that "effort" to express myself and not feel like a dork, they act like it's no big deal? Come on.

Now you know how we (perceivers) feel when we do meet a deadline.